I personally think the extinction of mankind and terraforming of earth through a complex third impact is much more important than pulling out the plug from a few monolith and awaken another new evangelion unit...
Do we need to know about the timeskip?
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- ElMariachi
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You have a point. (that's it if the rest of the world shared the same fate than Tokyo-3)
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If we get a spin-off about the time skip, it will be after FINAL, simply because it would then spoils two very important points left open by 3.0 : what was Shinji's exact responsibility in Third Impact, and how is humanity faring outside of Tokyo-3's region(the ground zero of 3I)
3.0 made Shinji believe(and the audience fear) that all hope is lost now, that the spears were his and humanity's last chance to survive, but now Shinji will have to carry an incommensurable sin on his shoulders and the universal hate that comes with it, and mankind will futilely struggle in a now lifeless husk of a world turned to core material, implying that mankind is doomed.
But if these assumptions are wrong, if the hints we collected thorough Q that 3I is not (entirely) Shinji's fault and that mankind still survive with hopes for a better future, then having these revelations being previously spoiled in a spin-off will completely remove their power in the fourth movie.
Because having a spin-off that manage to don't talk at all about what happened between N3I and what happened with the 12th Angel, and how is the situation is for the rest of mankind(which is the provider of WILLE's supplies, equipment and troops) is simply impossible.
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My two cents, but I think that the Western hate for Shinji(he doesn't seem to be as hated in Japan) comes from the fact that in action stories, the main character is supposed to be an idealized version of the audience, hence all these manly and GAR characters, full of will and determination, blowing the hell out of the bad guys. So of course when presented with a character that reacts like a realistic 14 years old boy abandoned by his father at age 4 and with crippling insecurities born from it would react to pilot without any training giant physic-defying kaijus would, ie freaking the hell out and wanting to get out, he's viewed negatively because he's not the idealized audience surrogate people are accustomed to see.
Shinji is a textbook case of Byronic Hero : the main character of a story who has qualities but also very deep flaws that could far outweigh said qualities on occasions. The kind of "hero" people was more accustomed to see in literature from the 19th century onward, but not in TV and movies.
But that's this Byronic Hero status that makes Shinji's story so original and interesting, especially since it's completely at odds with the kind of personality exhibited by MCs in the mecha genre.
Last edited by ElMariachi on Tue Mar 18, 2014 3:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger
Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger
- Jornophelanthas
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I agree that a spin-off anime would be perfect merchandising for the cash cow that is Evangelion. But only after FINAL is done.
I would suggest that Asuka will be the main character, with Mari, Misato and (to a lesser extent) Kaji and Ritsuko as secondary characters.
It would be the ultimate reversal of the criticism that Asuka "should have been the real main character for NGE". *EDIT: And it should probably show that Asuka is just as much a Byronic hero as Shinji is (to borrow a term from the post above).
(And don't worry, Asuka's bitter resentment towards Shinji will not define her. That hardness had 14 years to fester, while this spin-off would only cover the relatively short period in between Near-Third Impact and Actual-Third Impact.
And besides, Asuka's bitterness in 3.0 was also the result of suddenly having to deal with Shinji again. It could well be that she had a lot more composure before WILLE went and sprung Shinji on her again.)
I would suggest that Asuka will be the main character, with Mari, Misato and (to a lesser extent) Kaji and Ritsuko as secondary characters.
It would be the ultimate reversal of the criticism that Asuka "should have been the real main character for NGE". *EDIT: And it should probably show that Asuka is just as much a Byronic hero as Shinji is (to borrow a term from the post above).
(And don't worry, Asuka's bitter resentment towards Shinji will not define her. That hardness had 14 years to fester, while this spin-off would only cover the relatively short period in between Near-Third Impact and Actual-Third Impact.
And besides, Asuka's bitterness in 3.0 was also the result of suddenly having to deal with Shinji again. It could well be that she had a lot more composure before WILLE went and sprung Shinji on her again.)
- ElMariachi
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@ Jornophelanthas : This. That will be an excellent opportunity to flesh out Asuka, and since she got to work with Mari, to flesh her out too.
From time to time we could swap the POV to see what are Kaji, Misato or Gendo doing, like it was in NGE, but in the end it'll be mainly Asuka's show, since she seems to have been particularly broken by the events between 2.0 and 3.0, both mentally and physically.
And of course Ray, if Touji, Hikari, and Kensuke are still alive, there's no reason to not see them again, if only to know how Toji's shirt ended in NERV's possession, that would be also an excellent opportunity to flesh out his relationship with his sister that could clue us on why she's sympathetic toward Shinji(even if she explain it FINAL, to see it by ourselves would be nice), or also to flesh out Asuka and Hikari's friendship, to see how N3I, Asuka's angelic contamination and Curse of Eva affected their relationship, maybe it was too much for their friendship and they ended breaking it, making Asuka even more bitter until Mari appears in the picture. Or maybe it survived and we'll see in FINAL Asuka visiting Hikari in WILLE's base where they hang around just like old time, difference in physical age be damned!
From time to time we could swap the POV to see what are Kaji, Misato or Gendo doing, like it was in NGE, but in the end it'll be mainly Asuka's show, since she seems to have been particularly broken by the events between 2.0 and 3.0, both mentally and physically.
And of course Ray, if Touji, Hikari, and Kensuke are still alive, there's no reason to not see them again, if only to know how Toji's shirt ended in NERV's possession, that would be also an excellent opportunity to flesh out his relationship with his sister that could clue us on why she's sympathetic toward Shinji(even if she explain it FINAL, to see it by ourselves would be nice), or also to flesh out Asuka and Hikari's friendship, to see how N3I, Asuka's angelic contamination and Curse of Eva affected their relationship, maybe it was too much for their friendship and they ended breaking it, making Asuka even more bitter until Mari appears in the picture. Or maybe it survived and we'll see in FINAL Asuka visiting Hikari in WILLE's base where they hang around just like old time, difference in physical age be damned!
Avatar: THE HIGHEST OF ALL HIGHS WE AAAAAAAAAARE!!!
Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger
Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger
In the original series, Touji is the only person who defended Shinji even when it hurt. The guy got his friggin' leg ripped off and he was still defending him! He better still be alive if they have a time skip spin-off anime!
It would be primarily the Asuka and Mari show though, with a little Misato on the side, that much I admit. We NEED To know what turned our favorite party animal into such a cold hearted (Bleep). EXPLAIN ANNO! EXPLAIN! Stop leaving us hanging!
It would be primarily the Asuka and Mari show though, with a little Misato on the side, that much I admit. We NEED To know what turned our favorite party animal into such a cold hearted (Bleep). EXPLAIN ANNO! EXPLAIN! Stop leaving us hanging!
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Isn't Kaji's death, failing to save humanity, and reliving her childhood trauma of seeing an impact up close explanation enough?
We may not be outright told what happens in the time skip, but if you care to pay attention, it's very much sufficiently implied.
We may not be outright told what happens in the time skip, but if you care to pay attention, it's very much sufficiently implied.
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- Sailor Star Dust
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Kaji's death certainly isn't sufficiently implied, and failing to save humanity, well he obviously failed to do that but the real question is "Wtf happened?"
And that brings me to something I will say we need: An explanation for the vast differences between the ending of 2.0 and what we see in 3.0. That needs to be explained.
You know you have some fucked up characters when a screenshot of them smiling is the biggest piece of fanservice possible in the series. - Anonymous
Be excellent to each other. -Abraham Lincoln
Asuka is a real person. -Bagheera
Human beings are scum. You people looking down on others for simply feeling an attraction to a fictional character are the real filth. -Kazuki_Fuse
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Be excellent to each other. -Abraham Lincoln
Asuka is a real person. -Bagheera
Human beings are scum. You people looking down on others for simply feeling an attraction to a fictional character are the real filth. -Kazuki_Fuse
CENSORED BY THE ILLUMINATI
@Kendrix
One of the crewmembers directly mentioned Kaji. So he could still be alive.
@CJD
Agreed.
Shinji is more than likely reponsible for the state of the world (Ritsuko directly said the DSS choker was a symbol of his sin), the big question is. . . HOW? If it was as simple as him destroying the Geofront allowing Kaworu to reach Lilith, well. . . it would be bad but not enough of a sin to warrant the DSS Choker. If 4.0 at least explains that, I'll be happy.
Again, Misato went too far. He was practically her son! It had been 14 years for you but only a few minutes for him! You'd think she would have shown at least a little sympathy or at least understanding!
To answer the original post. YES. We need to know. But not EVERYTHING.
Not knowing is not necessarily a bad thing, Eva itself has never been about giving answers, rather leaving clues and letting the audience come to its own conclusions based on the evidence. However, there's a difference between choosing to leave a little mystery in the universe, and just being a troll. We're going to have to wait another year to see if Anno has done the former or is being the latter.
I hope 4.0 is at least 2 hours and thirty minutes.
One of the crewmembers directly mentioned Kaji. So he could still be alive.
@CJD
Agreed.
Shinji is more than likely reponsible for the state of the world (Ritsuko directly said the DSS choker was a symbol of his sin), the big question is. . . HOW? If it was as simple as him destroying the Geofront allowing Kaworu to reach Lilith, well. . . it would be bad but not enough of a sin to warrant the DSS Choker. If 4.0 at least explains that, I'll be happy.
Again, Misato went too far. He was practically her son! It had been 14 years for you but only a few minutes for him! You'd think she would have shown at least a little sympathy or at least understanding!
To answer the original post. YES. We need to know. But not EVERYTHING.
Not knowing is not necessarily a bad thing, Eva itself has never been about giving answers, rather leaving clues and letting the audience come to its own conclusions based on the evidence. However, there's a difference between choosing to leave a little mystery in the universe, and just being a troll. We're going to have to wait another year to see if Anno has done the former or is being the latter.
I hope 4.0 is at least 2 hours and thirty minutes.
- Sailor Star Dust
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Nah yea this is what I mean. Like the obvious example is the moon. We see the moon when Kaworu's descending in the end of 2.0 and not only is it in it's normal place but it also doesn't look at all like it does in 3.0. The landscape also looks way worse than anything we saw. Also, what the fuck happened with Lilith?
That kind of stuff. The way it looks now it seems like it's either a retcon or people aren't giving Shinji the whole story, and something else happened after Kaworu stabbed him (oh, me ), something that seemingly caused that damage, meaning it wasn't Shinji.
You know you have some fucked up characters when a screenshot of them smiling is the biggest piece of fanservice possible in the series. - Anonymous
Be excellent to each other. -Abraham Lincoln
Asuka is a real person. -Bagheera
Human beings are scum. You people looking down on others for simply feeling an attraction to a fictional character are the real filth. -Kazuki_Fuse
CENSORED BY THE ILLUMINATI
Be excellent to each other. -Abraham Lincoln
Asuka is a real person. -Bagheera
Human beings are scum. You people looking down on others for simply feeling an attraction to a fictional character are the real filth. -Kazuki_Fuse
CENSORED BY THE ILLUMINATI
- Sailor Star Dust
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IMO there's a lot of in-film hints and thread speculation that Kaworu's not telling the whole story (most notably this, a similar tactic from NGE to hide emotions).
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- ElMariachi
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It wasn't even intentional, I didn't see Gunbuster!
But now that you mention it, since Khara loves to reference their old works, that could be something happening in FINAL.
Like said above, Kaji is mentioned by Khoji(the bald new Bridge Bunny) in a way that doesn't suggest he's dead.
But I agree that failing to prevent Third Impact, discovering that she has been manipulated by the very organization she joined to defeat the Angels and avenge her father and the years of war is probably what soured her.
Also, what CJD said : if there is one thing we need to know, it's why the aftermath of Third Impact we see in 3.0 is so different than the aftermath of N3I in 2.0.
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Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger
Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger
- kuribo-04
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Because I expect a lot more from khara than that. This could easily be the new Ghibli.
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Nah, i heavily doubt it. Not so much due to differences in staff's skills (not very sure where Ghibli and Khara stand exactly in relation to the general anime studio) or size/scope but simply due to different subject matters and aesthetic interests. Plus Ghibli is headed by older people and Khara's founders are generally otaku (not using it as a bad term) so there's that too.
On-topic: I'm of the sentiment that there's nothing really necessary in any type of art (or entertainment), and think that such a viewpoint is a very narrow-minded one. Or at least, it's the wording i don't like. Rather than asking myself if something was necessary, i would prefer to ask myself if this element fullfills the creator's and the work's intentions, how it does that, how well it does it, and whether or not i can conceive of alternative methods or elements in which that intention could have been fullfiled. Although this is probably what you guys mean with "necessary", i dunno.
As i perceive it, the time-skip did wonders for Anno and Rebuild's intentions, and until now i haven't seen anything that could fulfill that intention better than the way things played out.
"Every line is a joy" -Kaworu Nagisa.
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Has anyone pointed out that the archival footage of N3I is recorded by S.Aoba. Where was his camera? Are video recording units installed on all Nerv personnel's uniforms? If so, doesn't that mean Kaji also has his footage of the event that unfolded?
He directs Eva-01 being the catalyst for 3rd Impact before they could get their "head count" (the Angels defeat) directly at Gendo instead of pointing the finger at Shinji.
If there is to be a brief explanation for the past 14 years in Final, I'm sure Kaji would take centre stage explaining it. He is a truth seeker after all, who else is better to tell it?
He directs Eva-01 being the catalyst for 3rd Impact before they could get their "head count" (the Angels defeat) directly at Gendo instead of pointing the finger at Shinji.
If there is to be a brief explanation for the past 14 years in Final, I'm sure Kaji would take centre stage explaining it. He is a truth seeker after all, who else is better to tell it?
I watch and speculate.
- ElMariachi
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^
Aoba could had simply used his cellphone to record the events. Kaji didn't needed to record anything because he seemed to know exactly what was happening, since he wasn't freaking out about THE END OF THE WORLD like Misato and co were.
Sorry, but I don't understand at all what you mean here.
I agree that Kaji revealing what happened 14 years ago would be thematically logical. Other characters could do it though, like Asuka : she has both the opportunity(since they're stranded in the desert for the days to come) and it would be thematically fitting(she would represent the character that grew-up and learned about how the world works(ie SEELE and Gendo's machinations), in opposition to the ignorant child that Shinji is still)
Aoba could had simply used his cellphone to record the events. Kaji didn't needed to record anything because he seemed to know exactly what was happening, since he wasn't freaking out about THE END OF THE WORLD like Misato and co were.
Sorry, but I don't understand at all what you mean here.
I agree that Kaji revealing what happened 14 years ago would be thematically logical. Other characters could do it though, like Asuka : she has both the opportunity(since they're stranded in the desert for the days to come) and it would be thematically fitting(she would represent the character that grew-up and learned about how the world works(ie SEELE and Gendo's machinations), in opposition to the ignorant child that Shinji is still)
Avatar: THE HIGHEST OF ALL HIGHS WE AAAAAAAAAARE!!!
Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger
Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger
- Jornophelanthas
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ElMariachi wrote:I agree that Kaji revealing what happened 14 years ago would be thematically logical. Other characters could do it though, like Asuka : she has both the opportunity(since they're stranded in the desert for the days to come) and it would be thematically fitting(she would represent the character that grew-up and learned about how the world works(ie SEELE and Gendo's machinations), in opposition to the ignorant child that Shinji is still)
There is a very real chance that Asuka will be unable to tell the whole story from first-hand experience, since it is unclear when exactly she awakened from her Angel-induced coma. She could have missed the entire aftermath of Near-Third Impact, and may not even know the particulars of what Shinji has done (i.e. wanting to save Rei from the Angel, because he already lost Asuka) until Shinji actually tells her in person (in FINAL). This might even influence her opinion of Shinji.
My general point here, though, is that Asuka's account of what happened has a large chance to be either incomplete or second-hand (i.e. filtered by Misato's strong emotions on the topic).
If we're looking at character who could fill Shinji in on what happened during his absence, we immediately see that many can already be eliminated:
- Ritsuko has already had her turn when she explained what the DSS Choker was for. I got the distinct impression that she was not interested in volunteering any more information than what was strictly necessary to convince him that he was of no use to WILLE. (In fact, she did not even bother to tell him that she no longer worked for NERV. Misato told him that, and only after Shinji drew the conclusion for himself.)
- Misato could still have a heart-to-heart conversation with Shinji, if given the opportunity. However, it is more likely that Misato does not have her facts straight due to strong emotional bias, and I believe Shinji may more likely have to convince her of the purity of his intentions, than passively listen to Misato's side of the story.
- Fuyutsuki already had his turn of enlightening Shinji. Little good came of it.
- Kaworu's recounting of recent history arguably helped Shinji even less, although it did make him understand Misato's reaction to him. But Kaworu is gone for now. He had his turn.
- Sakura still has something to tell Shinji. Her own perspective of Third Impact would be sketchy at best (because she was still a child at the time), but she would at least be able to divulge Toji's fate.
- Mari is not a talker. And if she does, she will assume Shinji already knows everything she does. Expect no explanations from her, except maybe (just maybe) about her own personal history. Although both Kaji and Asuka are more likely candidates for that.
- Rei (either incarnation) is even less of a talker and knows even less than Shinji.
- Gendo and Shinji talking is a thing of the past. If they will even have another confrontation, it will be a (final) battle of wills. If it happens at all.
And, in full agreement with ElMariachi, that leaves Kaji by process of elimination. Kaji is knowledgeable about what happened in the world, detached from both NERV and Second Impact (unlike Misato), and has already shown himself to be a positive influence on Shinji. He has also been seen to have taken a liking to Shinji (although some of the innuendo suggests a dubious nature to this).
Also, recall that Kaji (both in NGE and Rebuild 2.0) has been depicted as someone who propagates that people (and Shinji in particular) should devote themselves to (a simple) life on earth, to the here-and-now, instead of chasing lofty higher cosmological orders, which marks him as an opponent of both the Angels and the Evangelion project.
This could go both ways in his relationship to WILLE: either he is their founder and leader, or he is a reclusive hermit who despises WILLE for using AAA Wunder as a weapon (instead of destroying it). If it is the latter, Asuka could very well be going to see him, with Shinji and Rei Q in tow.
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