Evangelion 13: fate, mechanics, etc.

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition"). The final instalment made its debut in Japan on March 8, 2021.

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Postby Hiten777 » Sat Mar 16, 2013 9:32 pm

View Original PostReichu wrote:He eventually does reclaim enough control to have Eva-13 stab itself twice. (This is some time after 13th Angel / Pseudo-Evolution antics lock Shinji out of the controls, as well.)


Just curious, Reiichu, but has it been confirmed that Kaworu took control of Eva 13 at that time and had it perform the action, or was the eva going on auto pilot? I'm just curious because just like Mk.09 became independent after via awakening, I thought the awakening of Eva 13 made it instinctually perform the impalements just like the MP Evas in EoE. Because after it noms Angel 12's core it begins to ascend of its own will, against Shinji's will (who was in control at the time) and Kaworu's (who was still locked out minutes before the awakening). I thought the only thing Kaworu did when he gained control was to sacrifice himself to deactivate Eva 13.

Join tempos, make sure that you're both trying to do the same thing, and let the magic happen. If somebody wants to shut the other person out, it would probably work like one of those dual-steering wheel student cars.


Also, I think Shinji's and Kaworu's conflict of control was not jut Gendo's doing but also the fact that Shinji's will to proceed was greater than Kaworu's, which Gendo probably calculated for in the first place. This analogy helps a lot explaining it, because at the beginning Shinji and Kaworu were united in tempos (desires/thoughts) but after noticing the spears Kaworu lost his focus while Shinji pressed on. Kaworu's lagging behind in will to proceed probably caused him to be outranked by Shinji in terms of who Eva 13 was controlled by, and thus as Shinji's will grew stronger Kaworu was eventually shut out as Shinji was proving to be able to handle things by himself. Kinda like how 2 tempos are meeting but when 1 falls behind, the one who is able to keep going become the lead until the other is able to catch up.

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Postby Güf Trüp » Mon Mar 18, 2013 2:59 pm

How does EVA 13 work, exactly? It's dual-piloted, but Shinji and Kaworu never really pilot it at the same time, and Shinji has absolutely no problem controlling it by himself, to the point where Kaworu is completely powerless to stop him from pulling out the spears. Is there some kind of lock out mechanic that allows one pilot to take complete control over it? When Fourth Impact roles around, Shinji loses control of it while Kaworu can still impale it with the spears, but I'm assuming this was because he used his angel maaagic rather than any special controls. Do they ever pilot it simultaneously? Is Shinji the only one piloting it, with Kaworu only there to provide a second soul/stop Fourth Impact? Will the fact that it's dual-piloted ever be important again? I need answers!

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Postby Giji Shinka » Mon Mar 18, 2013 3:25 pm

They made the double entry system so that one Eva could use two spears, you need two to use two.
So yeah, Kaworu was there mainly for soul reason.

I don't think we see another double entry system Evangelion, except maybe Eva 08+02. (If it appears in the movie)

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Postby ElMariachi » Mon Mar 18, 2013 4:22 pm

The double plug system was here for two reasons :
1/ to give the EVA enough power to break the seal on the door to Terminus Dogma where Lilith was being kept(Kaworu said that the seal was put 14 years ago)
2/ to activate the two spears. Apparently there is some kind of rule that said that one soul can manipulate only one Spear/Lance at a time, so in order to make EVA-13 wield the two spears for the ritual, it needed two souls, hence the double plug entry.

Something else interesting about EVA-13 and the spears : at one point Shinji asks why neo-NERV didn't used ReiQ as the second pilot for EVA-13, Kaworu respond that "Lilin imitations cannot be used", a little later, when 4I begin, he said that it's not Shinji's fault, but his own :

01:24:15 {Kaworu} It's because I became the Thirteenth Angel.
01:24:19 {Kaworu} I'm the trigger.


And before what Ritsuko called Shinji when he escaped the AAA WUNDER?
00:32:22 {Ritsuko} The fact he was taken in priority over Eva-01
00:32:25 {Ritsuko} means he still has potential as a trigger!


Seeing that Kaworu has an Angel's soul, it means that in order to work, the ritual of the two spears doesn't need two Lilin souls, but one Lilin soul and one Adam soul, or maybe it's TWO Adam souls? Kaworu said that Rei's soul can't do the trick because she's a Lilin imitation "their souls' placement is different"... which in my opinion is a pretty lame explanation... but what if he was actually lying to Shinji in order to preserve what little of sanity he has left? What if EVA-01 changed him in something in these 14 years in EVA-01? What if it began to changes him even before that?(the red eyes in the end of 2.0 still bugs me)
Last edited by ElMariachi on Mon Mar 18, 2013 4:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Nuclear Lunchbox » Mon Mar 18, 2013 4:23 pm

View Original PostGiji Shinka wrote:They made the double entry system so that one Eva could use two spears, you need two to use two. So yeah, Kaworu was there mainly for soul reason.

So, he was there for the "soul" reason of supplying an extra soul? :hahaha:

...Yeah, that was a bad pun.
Last edited by Nuclear Lunchbox on Mon Mar 18, 2013 5:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Giji Shinka » Mon Mar 18, 2013 4:48 pm

-o-; Sorry my bad english.
Meant to say: "Soul thingy" or something like that.

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Postby Mbryo » Fri Mar 22, 2013 11:21 am

What are 13's capabilities exactly? Is he really that powerful? I mean, sure, he can do the magic evaporating bullets thingy, and he can levitate, but he lacks an AT Field, most importantly, and can't do the optical beam attack.
And it's weird how Eva 13 was deactivated so easily. It should have been a god, being one of the survivng Adams and having consumed Lilith and the 12th Angel. While in contrast Unit 01, demonstrated far more amazing capabilities even before reaching the true God status.
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Postby Giji Shinka » Fri Mar 22, 2013 11:58 am

View Original PostMbryo wrote:And it's weird how Eva 13 was deactivated so easily.

But it was lanced with two spears. (=weakened)

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Postby ElMariachi » Fri Mar 22, 2013 4:59 pm

View Original PostMbryo wrote: but he lacks an AT Field, most importantly, and can't do the optical beam attack.
Is there any explanation in the movie, or any precedent of an EVA lacking an AT Field? Because that seems really weird : any ADAM and Lilith based lifeforms (Lilin included) have an AT Field, why EVA-13 is an exception to the rule?
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Postby Nuclear Lunchbox » Fri Mar 22, 2013 7:23 pm

View Original PostElMariachi wrote:Is there any explanation in the movie, or any precedent of an EVA lacking an AT Field? Because that seems really weird : any ADAM and Lilith based lifeforms (Lilin included) have an AT Field, why EVA-13 is an exception to the rule?

Nope, just a lot of speculation. Some of us believe that these questions will be resolved in FINAL, and that we just have to wait for that to happen.

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Postby SEELE-01 » Fri Mar 22, 2013 8:41 pm

View Original PostNuclear Lunchbox wrote:Nope, just a lot of speculation. Some of us believe that these questions will be resolved in FINAL, and that we just have to wait for that to happen.


Well, we know for sure that Yui is in Eva 01 and that Kaworu most likely has no mother...
What if the lack of AT Field is a result of no resident soul in the Eva and that's why they need 2 pilots, one of them human...
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Postby ElMariachi » Fri Mar 22, 2013 9:13 pm

Well, we're not even sure that the "mother's soul in the EVA core to work" rule is still applying to the Rebuild!EVAs : Mari piloted EVA-05(who blew up) and hijacked EVA-02(assigned and thus configured for Asuka) and if I remember correctly she had AT Fields in both Units.
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Postby evabell » Fri Mar 22, 2013 11:04 pm

View Original PostElMariachi wrote:Is there any explanation in the movie, or any precedent of an EVA lacking an AT Field? Because that seems really weird : any ADAM and Lilith based lifeforms (Lilin included) have an AT Field, why EVA-13 is an exception to the rule?


Actually Mark 09 also did not have an A.T Field. Both 09 and 13 are Adams Vessels so it seems to be a characteristic of them to not possess A.T Fields.

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Postby Giji Shinka » Sat Mar 23, 2013 5:29 am

View Original Postevabell wrote:Actually Mark 09 also did not have an A.T Field. Both 09 and 13 are Adams Vessels so it seems to be a characteristic of them to not possess A.T Fields.

Only thing left is to figure out are Mark.06 and Eva-01 Adams. (Vessel)
They both seem to have an A.T field. (not sure about mark.06)
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Postby Mbryo » Sat Mar 23, 2013 9:54 pm

It is not confirmed whether Mark.09 lacks an AT Field or not. He wasn't shown generating a visible AT Field in the movie (as far as I know, I haven't seen the movie yet) but it is possible he was generating one when the Wunder was pounding him with cannons (especially when it was sent to 'rescue' Shinji from the Wunder). It's possible he has the ability to 'evaporate' attacks like the Juusangouki, but since he was not immune to Mari's Anti-AT Field bullets unlike 13, it's more likely that he has a regular AT Field.
Mark.06 was never seen manifesting one as well (virtually nothing is known about the particular Eva unit) but the Shogouki, who is one of the most likely suspect to be an Adam, was shown to be able to be able to manifest an amazingly powerful AT Field, so it is not clear if the lacking-AT-Field is a characteristic that applies to all surviving-Adam-Evas.
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Postby Nuclear Lunchbox » Sun Mar 24, 2013 11:22 am

View Original PostMbryo wrote:It is not confirmed whether Mark.09 lacks an AT Field or not.

It lost its head to a handgun. I'm pretty sure that equals no A.T. field.

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Postby ElMariachi » Sun Mar 24, 2013 3:40 pm

View Original PostMbryo wrote:Mark.06 was never seen manifesting one as well (virtually nothing is known about the particular Eva unit) but the Shogouki, who is one of the most likely suspect to be an Adam, was shown to be able to be able to manifest an amazingly powerful AT Field, so it is not clear if the lacking-AT-Field is a characteristic that applies to all surviving-Adam-Evas.

Well, at the end of 2.0 he entered Earth's atmosphere at great speed, and Asuka in 3.0 seemed to need an AT Field to not burn to ashes when she salvaged the Tesseract in orbit, so I think Mark.06 had to have one, unless Kaworu could expand his own AT Field to the whole Evangelion, but I really doubt he's THAT powerful!

View Original PostNuclear Lunchbox wrote:It lost its head to a handgun. I'm pretty sure that equals no A.T. field.
Special anti AT Field rounds has been developed during the time skip, Mari knew she was fighting an EVA, so it's possible that she loaded her gun with these special bullets, and to be fair that was a really big handgun! :toothy:
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Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

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Postby Nuclear Lunchbox » Sun Mar 24, 2013 6:27 pm

View Original PostElMariachi wrote:Special anti AT Field rounds has been developed during the time skip, Mari knew she was fighting an EVA, so it's possible that she loaded her gun with these special bullets, and to be fair that was a really big handgun! :toothy:

Anti-ATF rounds? Where did we see these? If you're talking about the guns on the Wunder, those weren't standard Evaverse munitions, they were energy cannons. Are you talking about AA ammo? Still doesn't count, since Unit-13 wasn't manifesting an A.T. Field either. What part of the movie are you referring to?

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Postby ElMariachi » Mon Mar 25, 2013 1:53 pm

View Original PostNuclear Lunchbox wrote:Anti-ATF rounds? Where did we see these? If you're talking about the guns on the Wunder, those weren't standard Evaverse munitions, they were energy cannons. Are you talking about AA ammo? Still doesn't count, since Unit-13 wasn't manifesting an A.T. Field either. What part of the movie are you referring to?

Woooops, my bad, I confused AA ammo(as in Anti-Armor) for Anti-AT Field ammo, forget it. I will just chalk it up to the fact it was a really big gun! :toothy:
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Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

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Postby Shinoyami65 » Thu Mar 28, 2013 1:19 am

View Original PostNuclear Lunchbox wrote:It lost its head to a handgun. I'm pretty sure that equals no A.T. field.


It probably has an ATF; the reason why it lost its head was probably because Mari was using Anti-AT Field Ammo (y'know, the bullets which have no effect on Eva-13). This seems to be suggested later by the fact that when Asuka uses Anti-ATF Ammo against it later, the bullets would have had an effect on it, but it needed SEELE's special plate to deflect the bullet. Ergo, the bullets would work on it, unlike Eva-13, thus it has an ATF, or at least a very weak one. The only reason why the bullets can't hit its core is because of SEELE's plate.

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Or Eva-08 could have been corroding the Mark.09's ATF in order to make it vulnerable to bullets (similar to what happened to Matarael in the original series).
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