Giant Rei Head and Eva Imaginary

[Cookie H Wilson]

Why is Eva imaginary turned into a giant Rei head and the infinites into headless Reis?
Where is Rei in all of this for it to take her shape?
Still i don't get if Eva 13 absorbs Eva01 or viceversa, since in the gains lance impaling moment they come out from each other and separate.
I dont get the mechanics of the Additional impact.
Somebody to help me sort things out?

[Jinroh]

I'm not sure it's really turning into a giant Rei, maybe it's just Shinji (the viewer)'s perception.

I wonder what/who Gendo saw as the eva imaginary. Maybe Yui?

[Kendrix]

My first thought was that it related to the Advanced Ayanami series in the opfer type EVAs or 'our' Rei in unit one,

but now that I've seen the the full thing where the visuals clearly suggest that Gendo became aware of his past (or alternate timeline?) failure, I think that the implication is rather that he's rewriting the events with the version he wanted to see -

A world where Lillith ascended as in EoE, but with himself in control, instead of Rei and Shinji deciding for themselves - hence that visual of Gendo in the red ocean instead of those two.

We're told that at the Golgatha object you can "rewrite fate" or "make imagination real". It's probably a device left behind by the FAR/ "Gods" for this very purpose - maybe the means by which they gave humanity and the angels their predetermined "fate" to begin with.

If we think of the Anti universe as something like the "platonic cave" , we could think of Eva Imaginary the "idea" of an Eva. The ideal impact machine that could do whatever you wanted. (or perhaps you could also compare it to the "pure world" of shintoism)

So, in Rebuild!Gendo's own timeline, Kaji foiled his plan by killing Lillith, making her unusable. At some point - either upon using the key, or entering the anti universe - Gendo would also have become aware of the parallel universes: A world where everything went like he wanted until Rei ditched him (EoE), or a world where he succeeded but the result was not what he wanted, people came back & Yui still departed. (EoTV)

So he couldn't have won even if things had gone as planned. Even within the rebuild timeline itself, his original plan was most certainly foiled (after all, he thought it would be "not long now" at the time on 2.0)

Therefore Gendo's aim was to literally rewrite what happened so that he won by entering the space where he expected the FAR to have left behind a handy reality-rewriting device.

It's clearly a space that they didn't expect either humans or angels to enter - the only things that can go in are "gods" - Eva 01 after eating Zeruel, EVA 13 that was designed to be a "god-EVA" and/or "one of the adams", and EVA 08 after eating the Adam's Vessels (which, among other things, have blood type blue, so it's probably somewhat analogous to eating an angel. Presumably it's not the same power level since she's only nomming copies of the Adams, but it was enough to go in & retrieve Shinji.)

When you think about it it's pretty harsh since Gendo is literally discarding Rei for an imaginary obedient version of her (or rather, Lillith) that will do what he wants.
But of course timeskip Gendo has become even wore cold and removed from humanity than his past self... and that only became more intense when he used the key. Any positive semi-paternal feelings he had for Rei are long past.
I presume that this was gradual, he just didn't bother getting attached to new & new clones, by the time ReiQ came around he didn't even "transfer the data" or interact with her beyond orders, and learning she betrayed him in another timeline would've led him to cut off his feelings even more. He barely reacts when she lets Shinji into UNIT 01 right under his nose, like he didn't care which of them he had to do the last ritual with.

In that sense they set up a great contrast in which "ascended" Gendo acts super inhuman/ like a hammy villain, but when we look into his actual thoughts he bawls over how bad his life was - in trying to avoid his human weakness, he has in fact become ruled by it.

[DantesInferno]

Why is Eva imaginary turned into a giant Rei head and the infinites into headless Reis?
Where is Rei in all of this for it to take her shape?

Well, there's no way to tell that they're headless "Rei" if they're... headless. It's not like Rei's body has such unique characteristics that you can tell her apart from other characters just by looking at her body.

Somebody mentioned in another thread that female is the "default" sex for an embryo, before the Y chromosome and the male hormones "kick in" and the external sexual characteristics are expressed.

As for the Eva Imaginary, Anno goes out of his way to use the creepy, ugly, unsightly, live action character (for the face only nonetheless), instead of "anime Rei" like in EoE, so we can't say anything beyond "it's looks like some human female". I really wonder who the actress is... Not that I care

I'm too drunk to answer your other questions!

[Cookie H Wilson]

SPOILER: Show

Why is Eva imaginary turned into a giant Rei head and the infinites into headless Reis?
Where is Rei in all of this for it to take her shape?

Well, there's no way to tell that they're headless "Rei" if they're... headless. It's not like Rei's body has such unique characteristics that you can tell her apart from other characters just by looking at her body.

Somebody mentioned in another thread that female is the "default" sex for an embryo, before the Y chromosome and the male hormones "kick in" and the external sexual characteristics are expressed.

As for the Eva Imaginary, Anno goes out of his way to use the creepy, ugly, unsightly, live action character (for the face only nonetheless), instead of "anime Rei" like in EoE, so we can't say anything beyond "it's looks like some human female". I really wonder who the actress is... Not that I care

I'm too drunk to answer your other questions!

Well i mean come one the head was Rei shaped and the bodies are surely reminiscent of her, since it's like a mass of bodies and one head, I dont think is too far fetched. otherwise there would be man and female bodies, or since they are pure, like headless bodies with no tits
Please don't quote full posts when replying to the previous post before you - staff

[Kendrix]

Personally I'd take the way the marching EVAs (godly lifeforms") turning into marching women to be symbolic of Gendo's wish overwriting SEELE's.
The way they hold hands could be seen as standing in for "humanity becoming one"

Though presumably, the infinities were somehow attuning themselves to EVA Imaginary.

[Axx°N N.]

I think the line about "it looks different for everyone" is meta. We're familiar with GNR, and so the movie is emulating that; we're projecting an image.

So, in Rebuild!Gendo's own timeline, Kaji foiled his plan by killing Lillith, making her unusable. At some point - either upon using the key, or entering the anti universe - Gendo would also have become aware of the parallel universes: A world where everything went like he wanted until Rei ditched him (EoE), or a world where he succeeded but the result was not what he wanted, people came back & Yui still departed. (EoTV)

You seem to be positing that this all takes place in a multiverse, but how do you explain the presence of Mari? EoTV and EoE can be seen as alternative endings to the same diverging events because their cast is shared. But that's not true in NTE.

[AdamMalkovitch]

Axxon N, your comment about how EA looks different to everyone and how that's a meta concept makes perfect sense, I'd been wondering how to put it into words and you did it perfectly. The multiverse stuff makes sense though. NTE's reality is very similar to NGE's but Mari exists in it as a variable. The TV ending and EoE were caused by similar variables, so how could the multiverse idea not be true?

[T. K. Simon]

Axxon N, your comment about how EA looks different to everyone and how that's a meta concept makes perfect sense, I'd been wondering how to put it into words and you did it perfectly. The multiverse stuff makes sense though. NTE's reality is very similar to NGE's but Mari exists in it as a variable. The TV ending and EoE were caused by similar variables, so how could the multiverse idea not be true?

Gendo has in his possession the key (I don't remember the name) and he says that he knows beyond his reality (his dimension)

Nge and eoe are in the same dimension, but they are alternative timelines, with a different specific event (instrumentalization of eoe is different than that of nge, although they are complementary)

In short, rebuild and nge/eoe are different dimensions

Or so I see it

[AdamMalkovitch]

Yes but if events can branch near the end of the timeline with NGE and EoE, why can't they also branch waaaaaaaay back before the ancient non-human beings placed the Golgotha Object and dumped a ton of other stuff on Earth? Perhaps each series is predated by the same First Ancestral Race of each respective timeline, but they each did things differently across timelines, butterfly-effecting NGE and NTE into existence.

[Raikyu]

Recently, I've thought about something that I would like to share with you.

First of all, we know that all Eva units are numbered. So the "number" of this Evangelion is precisely the imaginary number. This "number" is important for calculations in engineering or physics. I won't get into details, but despite being a fictitious number, if we apply certain operations (like geometric rotations) to this "imaginary number", we obtain real numbers.

I think that Eva Imaginary is a trump card that can be anything we want. Think of it, like a chess game, where the pawn is able to go to the other side of the board and we can turn it into any piece we want. Just like that, Eva Imaginary can become an Adams or Lilith, for example. When the rite starts, in Shin, Fuytsuki says something like "the artificial recreation of Lilith", meaning that he and Gendo could be using Eva Imaginary to recreate Lilith, which ends up looking like Giant Naked Rei. It is possible that this being also has Adam's properties too, just like in the original continuity, but they only make references for Lilith. Maybe that role is filled by Eva-13, in this continuity.

There are also, some references about the "resurrection of Lilith", in Ha, when Gendo is talking to SEELE, but they are probably talking about the future third impact (the one with Mark. 06 replacing Lilith's head).

[Cookie H Wilson]

Sorry for bumpin my own thread but I’ve googled the same question the title asks and it sent me here
I have many new thought and made my idea about the Adams ships vessels and the whole Opfer thing, also about the fifth Adam (Eva 13) but still get around the fact that there is a Giant Naked Rei!
Of course it is a reference and a solipsistic expression of metacinema, but what sense does it make to someone who only saw the NTE
It seems to me if I don’t find a reason I really can’t just let it go by saying is referencing/ expressing imagination and being meta (Asuka on the beach and other stuff), but it does not have sense narratively
This and the fact that Lilith in NThird Impact and during whole 3.33 has her head beheaded and put somewhere else and before exploding it has the face of Rei

[Zoop]

When Shinji first sees eva imaginary, he asks "a black Lillith?" and Gendo responds with something like "ah, thats how you perceive it".

There is this uber godlike entity and the observer (unconsiously) has to picture a visual representation for it, it turns in a variation of Lillith when Shinji sees it, that makes total sense, as Shinji only knows one godlike entity (Lillith), so thats what he compares it with.
Lillith also had Rei's head, Shinji has seen that. So if imaginary takes on Rei's appearance, again, it makes sense, Shinji has seen that before.

And we, the viewers, are sharing in Shinji's perception.

[ElMariachi]

Lillith also had Rei's head, Shinji has seen that. So if imaginary takes on Rei's appearance, again, it makes sense, Shinji has seen that before.

And we, the viewers, are sharing in Shinji's perception.

Shinji never saw the decapitated Rei/Lilith head in neo-NERV HQ, there's the moment after the 12th Angel ate Lilith's corpse where it briefly turns into a giant red Rei head, but I'm not sure that Shinji actually noticed it, as he was freaking out over the fact EVA-13's controls didn't respond anymore.

Unless you mean that by the point he saw Black Lilith, his memories from other timelines were starting to resurface and remember Lilith taking Rei's form in other timelines?

[nerv bae]

Lillith also had Rei's head, Shinji has seen that. So if imaginary takes on Rei's appearance, again, it makes sense, Shinji has seen that before.

And we, the viewers, are sharing in Shinji's perception.

Shinji never saw the decapitated Rei/Lilith head in neo-NERV HQ, there's the moment after the 12th Angel ate Lilith's corpse where it briefly turns into a giant red Rei head, but I'm not sure that Shinji actually noticed it, as he was freaking out over the fact EVA-13's controls didn't respond anymore.

He would not have seen the giant red Rei head because Unit 13 was inside it. Only Rei Q, Asuka, and Mari might have seen it:

SPOILER: Show

But arguably, the interior of the giant red Rei head was manifesting little red Rei heads (echoing the 10th Angel's core in 2.0), and he might have seen these:

SPOILER: Show

[ElMariachi]

Shinji never saw the decapitated Rei/Lilith head in neo-NERV HQ, there's the moment after the 12th Angel ate Lilith's corpse where it briefly turns into a giant red Rei head, but I'm not sure that Shinji actually noticed it, as he was freaking out over the fact EVA-13's controls didn't respond anymore.

He would not have seen the giant red Rei head because Unit 13 was inside it. Only Rei Q, Asuka, and Mari might have seen it:

SPOILER: Show

But arguably, the interior of the giant red Rei head was manifesting little red Rei heads (echoing the 10th Angel's core in 2.0), and he might have seen these:

SPOILER: Show

Good catch, a shame that there are no indication on if Shinji noticed those Rei heads or not. In fact if he didn't, then it would mean that he never saw Lilith with Rei's face in Rebuild, since Imaginary Lilith only turned into photoshop GNR once it left Minus Space, his only experience with it would be his memories from the NGE timeline.

[Zoop]

Good additions on my earlier theory, as for Shinji having seen Lillith with a Rei head or not, I guess yah, this is from another timeline/reality I guess.

My main point is that its Shinji's perception (where that comes from apparantly remains open for debate), Gendo confirms as much.
It does not mean Eva Imaginary actually has a link with Rei, going by this logic it does not have to.

[nerv bae]

Some spitballing as I reach for non-meta solutions to this lore problem:

1) 3+1's Evangelion Imaginary manifests as a GNR because the spears convey information about giantness (Lilith, 1.0), nakedness (ibid), and Rei-ness (Unit 01, 2.0) between targets. In other words, Longinus learned about being giant and naked from being impaled in Lilith, and Cassius learned about Rei (and heck, Yui) from being impaled in Unit 01, and these learnings survive interim impalements in Lilith, Mark 06 (nota bene: within which is a 12th Angel that likes to turn into a giant Rei head), and Unit 13 to be conveyed into Evangelion Imaginary, influencing it to manifest as a GNR when it enters reality. After all, when Gendo is monologuing in front of black Lilith he makes a point about spears and information.

2) 3+1's Evangelion Imaginary manifests as a GNR because it previously observed the timeskip's Third Impact through the Gates of Guf and took away lessons about how to behave in reality. Through the Gates, it would have seen a giant naked Lilith, as well as a 12th Angel (whether contained in Mark 06 or not) that liked to manifest giant Rei heads, and thought "okay, if I ever leave the Golgotha Object and head down there, that's how I'm going to be."

This is basically a shitpost and I don't have high conviction in either option.

[Cookie H Wilson]

SPOILER: Show

Some spitballing as I reach for non-meta solutions to this lore problem:

1) 3+1's Evangelion Imaginary manifests as a GNR because the spears convey information about giantness (Lilith, 1.0), nakedness (ibid), and Rei-ness (Unit 01, 2.0) between targets. In other words, Longinus learned about being giant and naked from being impaled in Lilith, and Cassius learned about Rei (and heck, Yui) from being impaled in Unit 01, and these learnings survive interim impalements in Lilith, Mark 06 (nota bene: within which is a 12th Angel that likes to turn into a giant Rei head), and Unit 13 to be conveyed into Evangelion Imaginary, influencing it to manifest as a GNR when it enters reality. After all, when Gendo is monologuing in front of black Lilith he makes a point about spears and information.

2) 3+1's Evangelion Imaginary manifests as a GNR because it previously observed the timeskip's Third Impact through the Gates of Guf and took away lessons about how to behave in reality. Through the Gates, it would have seen a giant naked Lilith, as well as a 12th Angel (whether contained in Mark 06 or not) that liked to manifest giant Rei heads, and thought "okay, if I ever leave the Golgotha Object and head down there, that's how I'm going to be."

This is basically a shitpost and I don't have high conviction in either option.

Love this idea
Also because I can understand all of the meta linked to Imaginary becoming a GNR because of blah blah but this does not give me an idea as to why in 3.33 the 12 angel has Rei’s face and why there are those little Reis from his POV inside unit 13
And why Lilith ‘s severed head that lies in the Command Center is Rei shaped.
Maybe it has to do with N3I in which Rei was merged with Unit 01

[AsukaShikinami10]

@Cookie H Wilson I think it has more to do with Actual Third Impact because when we see through Misato's flashback, we get to see Mark.06 holding the decapitated head of Lilith and it is still manifesting as a humanoid head, not the Rei shaped one.

My guess is that when A3I started, it continued what N3I left to be done. i.e. the Failures of Infinity taking Eva Unit 01's shape but headless, Lillith's head turning into a Rei head after being beheaded.

All of this because as Kaworu said in 3.333, Eva Unit 01 was the trigger that started the Third Impact (only to be temporary stopped by the Cassius Spear).

My guess is that when the 12th angel took control over Mark.06 (by SEELE's programming) they had the need to remove the Cassius Spear from Unit 01, so it reactivated again as the trigger for said Impact with the bottomost part of Central Dogma as the new epicenter.