How Can Shinji Help Wille Without Piloting An Eva?

[ElMariachi]

Errors? Misato, Sakura, Ritsuko, Asuka, and Wille were in the right. Shinji was in the wrong. He has to admit his part before anyone else is obliged to admit their part in his pain. That probably will only extend to those characters and not to the larger Wille crew. Who have every reason to dislike him.

SPOILER: Show

Of course if Shinji wasn't really responsible for N3I and everyone only thinks he's responsible because of SI-2?? (the theorized angelic clone of Shinji), or Shinji not remembering it was him who caused the impact because of Amnesia caused by being trapped in Unit-01. That'll be a wrinkle to the Wille crew holding a grudge, because they won't be able to point fingers at him without moral compulsion if he genuinely cannot remember that it was him who caused it. Or if it wasn't him at all, then he'll only be on the hook for piloting eva 13 with kaworu. Still bad, but not insurmountably bad like if he is on the hook for causing impact during the timeskip.

There's no need for such crazy theories of Shinji clones or amnesia or whatnot when 3.0 already explains to us the broad strokes of what happened :

• Shinji triggers an Impact at the end of 2.0 that's quickly stopped by Kaworu, that was Near Third Impact (there are no scenes in 3.0 that suggest that this part was retconned)
• In 3.0 when the heroes reach the ruins Lilith's chamber, we see Mark.06 (a former Adam) with the 12th Angel inside fused to Lilith's corpse, surrounded by thousands of giant skulls that look like they could fit with the thousands of fossilized headless Evas crawling from the walls of the chamber up to the surface
• In case it's not clear enough, Kaworu calls the place the epicenter of Third Impact, not Near-Third Impact, but Third Impact proper

So from here the chain of events are clear: Shinji indeed started an Impact that did severe damage to Tokyo-3 (and this is the reason WILLE are "punishing" him with the DSS Choker, on top of assuring their security) but was quickly stopped before it could do more, then later the 12th Angel reached Lilith through Mark.06 which then started the real Third Impact that turned the world red.

So the mistrust and "hate" that the WILLE people feel toward Shinji are :

• because he's an Impact Trigger and that shit is scary
• because he's an Eva pilot (because at this point none of them are human, and maybe Asuka and Mari have to go through the same discrimination)
• because he was "resurrected" from a super powerful Eva after being absorbed inside it for 14 years, and that shit can't be right
• because he's the son of Gendo Ikari

But not because the destroyed the world, because he didn't, and I'm ready to bet that Shinji is the only who think that he's responsible for it.

Let's be clear, there were so many ambiguous scenes in 3.0 (WILLE not telling him that he doomed the entire planet as part of his "sin", Kaworu's very roundabout ways to explain to Shinji what happened, the whole 12th Angel fused to Lilith thing) for it to be simply "actually, Shinji did destroy the planet in 2.0, and the rest were red herring, lol".

I'm not sure.
That's the type of question that leads to a film 8 years in development.

Some sort of difficult thing he might pull his heart and soul into to prove he's on Wille's side. Maybe trying to contact Yui. Maybe they need something that is in his mind/memories, only accesible through some procedure
(I guess this room made me think of that:

SPOILER: Show

)

Interesting, from where did that image come from?

Never said that Shinji would have piloted the Dark Wunder how did you come up with this absurdity? I thought that maybe the Dark Wunder could have located Shinji inside the Wunder and Gendo would have tried to take him away with him.

I wasn't saying that Shinji would pilot the Dark Wunder, I just thought that you said that Gendo would steal 01 from the Wunder and escape, and then that Shinji would take advantage of the confusion to escape the Wunder and somehow reach the Dark Wunder to take 01 back from his father, which is impossible unless suddenly Shinji knows how to pilot a VTOL or a plane.
Of course if Gendo also kidnaps Shinji while he's at it, that's another story. (although personally I don't see why he would need Shinji at this point)

What he needs is to find a place. Something purposeful and helpful to do that isn't EVA. He'll need that anyway at the end of the movie, even if he pilots again. He'll need... maybe not a job in the capitalistic sense but something to DO, you know? Even if its knitting or whatever... and people DO need clothes.

I'm trying to list things that anyone can do or that Shinji was already shown to be skilled at. It's not like he's gonna be Ritsuko's understudy with only an 8th grade education. Maybe in some years. Maybe eventually there will be school again. But that's in the future first someones got to build a school.

Both aren't mutually exclusive, it seems that the movie will be long, so it's possible that after being brought back to civilization (either the Wunder or the "Lilin city") and getting out of his funk, he'll start helping in ways that don't involve piloting the Eva (to prove to himself that he isn't just defined by the Eva) in a "slice of live" section of the movie (like we got in 2.0), and then when the plot will inevitably catch up to him, he'll have to pilot again, but this time with a clear head, more maturity and a resolve to protect those he care about, he will face that ordeal and not lose control of himself, to show his character development. It could be just one last time to finally defeat Gendo, or even crazier: as a regular pilot after some extra-training among WILLE. (Asuka and Mari sure will be glad to be able to be relieved from time to time)

[BusterMachine4]

There's no need for such crazy theories of Shinji clones or amnesia or whatnot when 3.0 already explains to us the broad strokes of what happened :

• Shinji triggers an Impact at the end of 2.0 that's quickly stopped by Kaworu, that was Near Third Impact (there are no scenes in 3.0 that suggest that this part was retconned)
• In 3.0 when the heroes reach the ruins Lilith's chamber, we see Mark.06 (a former Adam) with the 12th Angel inside fused to Lilith's corpse, surrounded by thousands of giant skulls that look like they could fit with the thousands of fossilized headless Evas crawling from the walls of the chamber up to the surface
• In case it's not clear enough, Kaworu calls the place the epicenter of Third Impact, not Near-Third Impact, but Third Impact proper

So from here the chain of events are clear: Shinji indeed started an Impact that did severe damage to Tokyo-3 (and this is the reason WILLE are "punishing" him with the DSS Choker, on top of assuring their security) but was quickly stopped before it could do more, then later the 12th Angel reached Lilith through Mark.06 which then started the real Third Impact that turned the world red.

I know I've been temp-banned for a week, and I haven't really been part of this conversation because of it, but I want to once again state my distaste for the "Shinji didn't start Third Impact, Kaworu was just lying" theory. In my mind, it would be a cop-out that completely destroys the story structure of the series.

I know that what the movie showed wasn't the full story, that's obvious. Shinji saving Rei obviously wasn't the only thing to cause Third Impact. But still, I think it played some sort of key role. Otherwise some other details of 3.0 wouldn't make sense:

• WILLE giving Shinji dirty looks, practically seething with hatred. This is not how you look at someone you have mixed feelings about.
• Ritsuko describing the choker as a "punishment." If saving Rei didn't cause Third Impact in at least some way, then what would it be a punishment for?
• The Failures of Infinity being in the shape of Unit 1. If Unit 6 was the only cause of Third Impact, wouldn't they be shaped like Unit 6?
• The idea of Kaworu telling a total lie in the first place. He's been known to omit major details, but he's never straight-up lied to anyone.

And besides all that, it would also be a complete contradiction of the rules of storytelling. If you give a character a crushing revelation, one that weighs down on their psyche and motivates their actions, you can't just have that revelation revealed to be false without it feeling like a cop-out. It's like if in Return of the Jedi, Luke asked Yoda, "Is Darth Vader my father?" and Yoda responded, "Nah, he was lying to you. Vader actually did kill your father. Go get revenge!" That version of the movie wouldn't be anywhere near as good as the version we got.

And also, I distinctly remember seeing a thread where you peddled the theory that the Third Impact didn't actually happen, and Kaworu lied about that as well. Well, given the 10 minute fight scene in a red ruined Paris, I think that theory was probably wrong. What's to say your theory isn't wrong now?

[wiser3754]

That scene with Shinji in Unit 01's hanger could be a flashback to the events before the Lilith/Mark.06 union.

SEELE and the JSSDF are probably knocking on NERV's door during this time so Gendo utilises a still determined Shinji to hold back the assault force. What that force is made of are those tanks and gunships found in Terminal Dogma and Nerv HQ with Unit/Mark.07 and two angels.

Pfft! Yeah right!

[Zusuchan]

The whole discussion on Shinji's actions and whether they were right, wrong, or somewhere in the middle has been split off here.

[duppertip]

Why do you think that Shinji will arrive back to Wille?
There are multiple things indicating that it may not be the case at all:

• The start of 3+1 indicates that Mari was operating in Paris alone. They retrieved spare parts for EVA02 to rebuild it yet again, but most likely there was no Asuka around at all.
• The numerous shots of the ruined countryside shows that they did have a long walk. Asuka, Rei Q and Shinji spend at least some time together, so Shinji in particular will get time to get over mental crash and Rei Q would get character development.
• I know it sounds a bit odd, but Asuka is actually in minority to the Nerv faction and even Shinji alone could be her probably unless she personally has angel powers
• Shinji has no reason to come to Wille. It won't redeem him, they don't need him, he doesn't even have security for granted. Instead, he will probably return to Nerv and to Gendo to see Rei Q again (which is likely to be reborn there as the current clone dies with sustaining herself with meds). As a character he must face Gendo and Rei, he isn't really concerned about pewpews with Wille.
• There are 0 shots of Shinji ever suggesting being in Wunder. Even shot with Kaworu isn't likely to occur there at all. The only other shot is Sakura watching someone waking up - but that's not necessarily Shinji, especially given that she doesn't have any kind of angry face.
• Shinji must face Gendo, Fuyutsuki and Rei to end his character arc. Being captured again makes little sense, but him coming back with determination to accept his role and purpose actually makes sense.

One other detail is that he wouldn't be piloting EVA01 before the end of the Final Impact for sure - but he will pilot it nonetheless.
One of possible reasons why is that the Final Impact succeeds (with Wille failing) but will only result in world reset because of Shinji's actions in NERV. It's the only event that can reasonably do "timeloop" and for it to be "hacked" Shinji needs to be in NERV.

[bastianstix]

The start of 3+1 indicates that Mari was operating in Paris alone. They retrieved spare parts for EVA02 to rebuild it yet again, but most likely there was no Asuka around at all.

Because that is supposed to happen while the pilots are wandering through the red wasteland

Shinji has no reason to come to Wille

True, but he is not coming to Wille, he's literally being dragged back by Asuka because he's a runaway prisoner that has proven to be too dangerous to be left alone

he will probably return to Nerv and to Gendo to see Rei Q again

Bro if Shinji wants anything at the end of 3.0 that's probably to die. He is in a catatonic state, mindbrocken by Kaworu's death, unable to speak, to move and barely able to walk. He doesnt seem to care about Asuka, ReiQ or even himself. As for Nerv, well, the literal apocalypse stopped moments ago, what was left of the GeoFront has probably been reduced to red dust. And even if it was there, Shinji has even less reasons to come back to where his father is. Not in the state he is right now.

There are 0 shots of Shinji ever suggesting being in Wunder. Even shot with Kaworu isn't likely to occur there at all. The only other shot is Sakura watching someone waking up - but that's not necessarily Shinji,

Well there are 0 shots only if you decide to dismiss scenes that have been shown to you. Shinji is shown inside the Wunder, I don't think anyone doubts it.

Being captured again makes little sense, but him coming back with determination to accept his role and purpose actually makes sense.

I think youu just described the opposite of what the movie is about. There's no role for Shinji except shutting up and staying away from an Eva for the time being. Every time Shinji acted 'with determination' (for whatever selfish reasons or not) he ended up triggering a cataclysm. Literally every character wants Shinji to stay away from the Evas.

One other detail is that he wouldn't be piloting EVA01 before the end of the Final Impact for sure - but he will pilot it nonetheless.

The Shinji & EVA01 scenes we've seen are exact copies of the 2.0 movie, so I don't think those are happening before the Impact. I don't doubt he'll somehow pilot it again, though.

[duppertip]

True, but he is not coming to Wille, he's literally being dragged back by Asuka because he's a runaway prisoner that has proven to be too dangerous to be left alone

How would Asuka alone beat him (and, optinally, Rei Q) and drag him back to Wille if he resisted?

Bro if Shinji wants anything at the end of 3.0 that's probably to die. He is in a catatonic state, mindbrocken by Kaworu's death, unable to speak, to move and barely able to walk. He doesnt seem to care about Asuka, ReiQ or even himself. As for Nerv, well, the literal apocalypse stopped moments ago, what was left of the GeoFront has probably been reduced to red dust. And even if it was there, Shinji has even less reasons to come back to where his father is. Not in the state he is right now.

He has a few days of walking with those two to actually come to sense from his catatonic state. There will be development for the trio and they will have an important "arc" in the movie.
Furthermore, everyone knows how poorly Shinji would be treated in the Wunder. If even Asuka is limited to some contamination zone, Shinji would be living in the cell for the whole movie... which would not help him to recover and get hope. Would Asuka, despite everything, be that willing to throw him into such misery? It's actually not a trivial decision.
And, as noted before, Asuka would need to have angelic powers with Shinji having none in order to drag him if he resisted.

Well there are 0 shots only if you decide to dismiss scenes that have been shown to you. Shinji is shown inside the Wunder, I don't think anyone doubts it.

There are only 2 shots that can resemble Wunder: SDAT and Kaworu shot (which use similar background) and both of those shots being at Wunder raised a lot of questions, especially Kaworu one.

I think youu just described the opposite of what the movie is about. There's no role for Shinji except shutting up and staying away from an Eva for the time being. Every time Shinji acted 'with determination' (for whatever selfish reasons or not) he ended up triggering a cataclysm. Literally every character wants Shinji to stay away from the Evas.

He can't pilot anything, there are no free EVAs in the first place to pilot before the Final Impact!
But it doesn't mean that he can't do anything without piloting. In fact he can just face Gendo, Rei and Fuyutsuki without EVA and that would be one of most entertaining scenarios to see... instead of imprisoned or maid Shinji. That would also give him something meaningful to do in the final movie instead of whining (which... is hardly what he will do).
And well, Gendo would still pick him up instead of leaving him alone.

[bastianstix]

if he resisted?

Sounds to me like you are just describing what YOU would like to happen. I'll stick to the footage we have seen, both in 3.0 and trailers, wich show Shinji not only being dragged by Asuka, but docilely following her and ReiQ (trailer from last October). And considering Asuka is a trained soldier with years of experience, I don't think she would have any problem breaking Shinji's neck if she wanted. But again, it doesn't look like 3.0+1.0 will begin will a lame fistfight between those two.

There are only 2 shots that can resemble Wunder: SDAT and Kaworu shot (which use similar background) and both of those shots being at Wunder raised a lot of questions, especially Kaworu one

I know as much as you do. We have no idea why/how Kaworu is there, and we can only speculate if that's even the Wunder's interior, but for now that seems the safest explanation

He can't pilot anything, there are no free EVAs in the first place to pilot before the Final Impact!
But it doesn't mean that he can't do anything without piloting. In fact he can just face Gendo, Rei and Fuyutsuki without EVA and that would be one of most entertaining scenarios to see... instead of imprisoned or maid Shinji. That would also give him something meaningful to do in the final movie instead of whining (which... is hardly what he will do).

You see, thematically speaking 3.0 left Shinji in the same state he was at the beggining of EoE. He's mindbrocken, hopeless.
To tie up with the thread's topic, Rebuild!Shinji is a shounen hero drepived of the only thing he's good at: Piloting an eva. That was one of the fundamental questions raised in the last episodes of NGE: Shinji has the right to live not because he's the main character, or because he's the pilot of Eva01, BUT because he has the right to live. The Rebuilds will never go as deep as NGE when it comes to psychological examination, but right now Shinji is in a weird postion where literally any other character is more useful than him. You said "give him something meaningful to do in the final movie instead of whining", well, what if Anno decides not to? There are other Eva pilots. The Wunder has its own crew, same goes for the Gunder. 14 years passed without Shinji and the moment he comes back everything goes to shit (again).
When it comes to 'subverting expectations', destroying Rebuild!Shinji's dreams of becoming some kind of Shounen Hero would be a very fitting option.

[Blockio]

On the topic of the inside Wunder shots: Let's not forget that "Dark wunder" also exists, and that we have not yet seen the inside of that.

[duppertip]

Sounds to me like you are just describing what YOU would like to happen. I'll stick to the footage we have seen, both in 3.0 and trailers, wich show Shinji not only being dragged by Asuka, but docilely following her and ReiQ (trailer from last October). And considering Asuka is a trained soldier with years of experience, I don't think she would have any problem breaking Shinji's neck if she wanted. But again, it doesn't look like 3.0+1.0 will begin will a lame fistfight between those two.

I know as much as you do. We have no idea why/how Kaworu is there, and we can only speculate if that's even the Wunder's interior, but for now that seems the safest explanation

It doesn't have to be that. They could wonder days around and spend a night outside, with Shinji, Rei and Asuka talking and eventually making up their minds. Thus I think that it could happen. It was also specifically avoided in all trailers that Shinji would set up foot on Wunder, meet Misato or anything. Which is fine if he does nothing, but honestly that's an unlikely option.
And well, yes, it is what I would like to happen, it's my speculation. It's born mainly out of the idea that we actually are only meant to think that Shinji joins Misato and others to stop Gendo, but it was never said like this.

You see, thematically speaking 3.0 left Shinji in the same state he was at the beggining of EoE. He's mindbrocken, hopeless.
To tie up with the thread's topic, Rebuild!Shinji is a shounen hero drepived of the only thing he's good at: Piloting an eva. That was one of the fundamental questions raised in the last episodes of NGE: Shinji has the right to live not because he's the main character, or because he's the pilot of Eva01, BUT because he has the right to live. The Rebuilds will never go as deep as NGE when it comes to psychological examination, but right now Shinji is in a weird postion where literally any other character is more useful than him. You said "give him something meaningful to do in the final movie instead of whining", well, what if Anno decides not to? There are other Eva pilots. The Wunder has its own crew, same goes for the Gunder. 14 years passed without Shinji and the moment he comes back everything goes to shit (again).
When it comes to 'subverting expectations', destroying Rebuild!Shinji's dreams of becoming some kind of Shounen Hero would be a very fitting option.

I actually disagree.
Shinji was more in a state closer to the end of Rebuild (minus the Impact contents) at the end of 3.0. He definitely screwed up, he was mindbroken not into depression but not knowing what to do even and now he was with stuck with Asuka. His "beginning of EoE" state was after he was retrieved to NERV; Kaworu broke him kind of like in EoE, Fuyutsuki intensified that and the 4th Impact left him with nothing.

And at the same time he was urged to not pity himself and not to give up and do nothing. Kaworu said so. Asuka meant so. And presence of Rei Q is the Chekhov's gun that will matter to their trip at the beginning of the movie.

It doesn't mean that he will pilot Eva during the Final Impact or anything. It'll be sorted out without him. But he will confront Gendo and save Rei. He will conclude in that way his development and relationship with Gendo, Rei(s) and it will expose Gendo as a character. And, in the end, Shinji will be most likely the one to stop the Final Impact from inside NERV in some dramatic fashion... unless you believe that Misato is smarter than Fuyutsuki + Gendo

I mean, really, who believes that Wille can win alone against Fuyutsuki +Gendo and outwit them?

[ElMariachi]

I think you two are going straight into fanfiction territory: the trailers mentioned the trio going to where the Lilin were, we've seen an image of Asuka on a wooden platform in the outside, we've seen images of Shinji in the Wunder (in rooms that have the exact same kind of furniture than the rooms in the other shots of the Wunder), several scenes of him in front of EVA-01 and inside it, with a final shot of his eyes glowing purple as a deliberate callback to his red eyes at the end of 2.0, and you think that this will mean that Shinji will fight Asuka, go back to neo-NERV and join them against WILLE?!
Or that all those images of Shinji in 01's plugsuit in front of 01 and inside its cockpit and with several shots of 01 fighting 13 means that none of this will happen and Shinji will stay in a corner for the entire movie because "subverting expectations"?

Yes, Anno loves to surprise us, but come on!


There's just one point that I want to talk more about :

Shinji must face Gendo, Fuyutsuki and Rei to end his character arc. Being captured again makes little sense, but him coming back with determination to accept his role and purpose actually makes sense.

His "role" was to be manipulated since birth by his father to be groomed and manipulated to awake EVA-01, which he did in 2.0, but the good guys proved to be a tougher nut to crack than planned and threw his plans into jeopardy, so when Shinji came back he kidnapped and manipulated him again for his own plans, without caring for the consequences for his son.
Shinji (somehow) going back to neo-NERV would be for the story to admit that he's a slave to his father's will, that he always was and always will be a tool for Gendo to be used and discarded like a used battery, or an Ayanami-type, and I really doubt that Anno will go that route for his story, not after placing Gendo as the final antagonist after he got rid of SEELE.

The interesting thing is that at the end of 3.0, Shinji is actually for the first time in his life completely free of his father's machination (even thought the price he had to pay was immense), so wherever WILLE left him, he'll be able to start to rebuild his life without a Mark.04 or Ayanami Type to abduct him for a new round of mind breaking manipulation from his dear dad.
For the first time in his life (even if he's not aware of it yet) there are no expectations from him to do something, wether from WILLE or Gendo, in a sense he's truly "free", so now he can sit back, think of his life and he really want to do with it, and that I think will be the foundation of his character development so that when he goes back to fight neo-NERV, it'll be with a renewed determination and gained maturity that will make him be able to truly help WILLE defeat Gendo without fucking up everything, and (to go back to the topic) it'll probably done first by doing something unrelated to piloting the Eva but that will help WILLE (or the Lilin city that the trio will reach if he ends up staying there), as modest as it'll be, that will be the first step to his recovery and eventual redemption.

Although for all to happen, the story will need to span some time, so if the story does like Q that only spans a few days (instead of 1.0 and 2.0 who each spanned several weeks to months), that will be much harder for Shinji to attain.

[Lennik]

The Shinji & EVA01 scenes we've seen are exact copies of the 2.0 movie, so I don't think those are happening before the Impact. I don't doubt he'll somehow pilot it again, though.

This statement is really confusing to me. Which scenes from the 3.0+1.0 trailer are copies of 2.0? Those trailer shots are nowhere in 2.0.

[Blockio]

Yeah, that's just false. If you're referring to GoatJesus' video, most of his claims in there are dubious at best

[BusterMachine4]

The shots aren't the same, but they are very similar, to the point where it seems like some parts were almost certainly traced. See this video for a nice comparison:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CV7vcV_zRGk

I personally wouldn't be surprised if it turned out that the shots of Shinji in the Eva cage weren't actually in the movie: NERV headquarters was obliterated in 3.0's finale, after all. My money is on Shinji getting into the Eva in a very spoilery way, and the cage shots being a less spoilery way to depict it.

[bastianstix]

Which scenes from the 3.0+1.0 trailer are copies of 2.0?

Yep, these are the ones I was refering to. Thanks Bustermachine

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CV7vcV_zRGk

What I meant was that those 'new' 2.0 scenes, be it flashbacks, timeloops or whatever, are likely to be shown after the Final Impact, which will work as a diverging point in the movie narrative.
It seems to me like the movie trailers are mixing two different continuities, because even if Shinji pilots Eva01 again ( in the end this is a robot anime movie, even if I love the idea of Anno subverting expectations), those shots are impossible to fit in the current events of 3.0+1.0

[Zusuchan]

I don't think we need for there to be two different continuities, the Ha shots in the trailer could just as well be parts of Instrumentality. At the end of the day, we know very little about Shin and knowing the kind of person Anno is, I'm sure there'll be quite a few surprises in store.

[ElMariachi]

Also the Rebuild movies are very big on recurring shots, that image of Shinji in a Eva cage looking up at Gendo has been present in all three movies, it's the classical shot of a confrontation between the two.

Of course the circumstances of that shot (with EVA-01 and Shinji in his old plugsuit) is the most puzzling part of that trailer, which is why we're speculating on its meaning... which means that the trailer did its job perfectly!

[duppertip]

I think you two are going straight into fanfiction territory: the trailers mentioned the trio going to where the Lilin were, we've seen an image of Asuka on a wooden platform in the outside, we've seen images of Shinji in the Wunder (in rooms that have the exact same kind of furniture than the rooms in the other shots of the Wunder), several scenes of him in front of EVA-01 and inside it, with a final shot of his eyes glowing purple as a deliberate callback to his red eyes at the end of 2.0, and you think that this will mean that Shinji will fight Asuka, go back to neo-NERV and join them against WILLE?!

I mean, we do assume that backgrounds may be not true or misleading or neutral. And in case of Shinji with Kaworu, in Wunder of all things, is definitely something odd.

But most importantly: we do not ever see Shinji wearing Wille's blue tie on arm, the narrator never said anything about Shinji and Wille in any version of trailers, him implied to be piloting EVA01 or anything else for that matter is disastrous for Wille in most cases (especially because EVA01 is Wunder's power core and a possible impact trigger in itself for a scenario they defeat Neo-Nerv).

Or that all those images of Shinji in 01's plugsuit in front of 01 and inside its cockpit and with several shots of 01 fighting 13 means that none of this will happen and Shinji will stay in a corner for the entire movie because "subverting expectations"?

Yes, Anno loves to surprise us, but come on!

But who pilots EVA13? And for that matter, what if Shinji would pilot EVA13? Although that shot is confusing and assumes that both Wunders aren't operational and the Final Impact is stopped, which is quite odd in itself without using some convoluted timeloop/reset/impact mechanics. Frankly speaking, there is not much point for Misato to let Shinji pilot awakened EVA01 which can do another impact by itself - unless she gives up in case Asuka x Mari fail and opts for Shinji's version of impact.

His "role" was to be manipulated since birth by his father to be groomed and manipulated to awake EVA-01, which he did in 2.0, but the good guys proved to be a tougher nut to crack than planned and threw his plans into jeopardy, so when Shinji came back he kidnapped and manipulated him again for his own plans, without caring for the consequences for his son.
Shinji (somehow) going back to neo-NERV would be for the story to admit that he's a slave to his father's will, that he always was and always will be a tool for Gendo to be used and discarded like a used battery, or an Ayanami-type, and I really doubt that Anno will go that route for his story, not after placing Gendo as the final antagonist after he got rid of SEELE.

Becoming Misato's slave and be bound by their grace to allow him to live and not be imprisoned in solitary confinement isn't a good option either, don't you think?

But more importantly, he can do something meaningful with Neo-Nerv and still face Gendo there, without even piloting EVA. In Wunder he won't face Gendo himself (by what logic?), he won't participate in fight too unless he pilots EVA01. Another aspect: why Shinji must seek approval of Misato, Asuka and rest of Lilin, trying to redeem himself desperately? What would that tell? How abandoning Rei Q would make sense?

Do you imagine his role being a whole movie of atonement, possibly cooking atop of Wunder or being imprisoned and, possibly, having Misato coming to him at the end with "Shinji, you must pilot the Eva"? Sure, it looks cinematic, but definitely doesn't make much sense to me. And even earlier in this thread and the derail many pointed out that it doesn't make sense.

On the opposite, Shinji going back to Neo-Nerv would allow him to face his issues and now on his terms, as well as make an impact... well, on the Impact.

The interesting thing is that at the end of 3.0, Shinji is actually for the first time in his life completely free of his father's machination (even thought the price he had to pay was immense), so wherever WILLE left him, he'll be able to start to rebuild his life without a Mark.04 or Ayanami Type to abduct him for a new round of mind breaking manipulation from his dear dad.
For the first time in his life (even if he's not aware of it yet) there are no expectations from him to do something, wether from WILLE or Gendo, in a sense he's truly "free", so now he can sit back, think of his life and he really want to do with it, and that I think will be the foundation of his character development so that when he goes back to fight neo-NERV, it'll be with a renewed determination and gained maturity that will make him be able to truly help WILLE defeat Gendo without fucking up everything, and (to go back to the topic) it'll probably done first by doing something unrelated to piloting the Eva but that will help WILLE (or the Lilin city that the trio will reach if he ends up staying there), as modest as it'll be, that will be the first step to his recovery and eventual redemption.

Although for all to happen, the story will need to span some time, so if the story does like Q that only spans a few days (instead of 1.0 and 2.0 who each spanned several weeks to months), that will be much harder for Shinji to attain.

There is a major chunk of movie that will be dedicated to the Final Impact (more than in 3.0 probably) and the ending. AND 10 minutes in Paris. There is physically not enough time for Shinji to reflect on his life casually while also showing everything else (Asuka, Mari, Rei Q, Gendo, Misato and perhaps a bit of lore backdrop on the events between 2.0 and 3.0).

And, frankly speaking, there isn't much Shinji can do to redeem himself to Wille and he can't do anything else than pilot in grand scheme of things. Nor he needs to redeem himself before Wille.

Or do you think that he needs validation from Wille and will act good because of that? And that'll be story behind 3+1?

[ElMariachi]

I mean, we do assume that backgrounds may be not true or misleading or neutral. And in case of Shinji with Kaworu, in Wunder of all things, is definitely something odd.

But most importantly: we do not ever see Shinji wearing Wille's blue tie on arm, the narrator never said anything about Shinji and Wille in any version of trailers, him implied to be piloting EVA01 or anything else for that matter is disastrous for Wille in most cases (especially because EVA01 is Wunder's power core and a possible impact trigger in itself for a scenario they defeat Neo-Nerv).

Kaworu being present could be part of Shinji's imagination or a "ghostly" apparition (like Quantum Rei), as for the blue armband, remember that WILLE's Eva pilots don't wear them, and the only shot we had of Shinji without a plugsuit is in his school suit, which is probably during the early period of his confinement in the Wunder, we don't know what will happen later in the movie. And there's also the possibility that he'll never join the organization as there won't be enough time for it, but will still help them in the end.

But who pilots EVA13? And for that matter, what if Shinji would pilot EVA13? Although that shot is confusing and assumes that both Wunders aren't operational and the Final Impact is stopped, which is quite odd in itself without using some convoluted timeloop/reset/impact mechanics. Frankly speaking, there is not much point for Misato to let Shinji pilot awakened EVA01 which can do another impact by itself - unless she gives up in case Asuka x Mari fail and opts for Shinji's version of impact.

I ask you the reverse question: if Shinji pilots EVA-13, then who pilots EVA-01? Because for EVA-13 I can see several alternatives to Shinji (dummy plug, an Ayanami -type, Gendo himself after injecting himself with the Key of Nebuchadnezzar), but EVA-01 is notorious for being very picky in who pilot it (ie no one but Shinji can make it work)
Now for the specifics of that duel, we'll have to wait for the movie to get them, but yes, it's probable that at some point the Wunder will be put out of commission and that Shinji will have to use 01 to bring the fight to neo-NERV, as for 13 we don't know if it's used as the Dark Wunder power source, it's also possible that it kept its original core powered it. (unlike the Wunder whose core that was removed to create the Mark.09)

Becoming Misato's slave and be bound by their grace to allow him to live and not be imprisoned in solitary confinement isn't a good option either, don't you think?

But more importantly, he can do something meaningful with Neo-Nerv and still face Gendo there, without even piloting EVA. In Wunder he won't face Gendo himself (by what logic?), he won't participate in fight too unless he pilots EVA01. Another aspect: why Shinji must seek approval of Misato, Asuka and rest of Lilin, trying to redeem himself desperately? What would that tell? How abandoning Rei Q would make sense?

Do you imagine his role being a whole movie of atonement, possibly cooking atop of Wunder or being imprisoned and, possibly, having Misato coming to him at the end with "Shinji, you must pilot the Eva"? Sure, it looks cinematic, but definitely doesn't make much sense to me. And even earlier in this thread and the derail many pointed out that it doesn't make sense.

On the opposite, Shinji going back to Neo-Nerv would allow him to face his issues and now on his terms, as well as make an impact... well, on the Impact.

And you think that Gendo won't immediately imprison him if he ever comes back to them!? Shinji fulfilled his part in Gendo's plan, he doesn't need him for anything now, the kid is just a liability, and Gendo hates the unexpected, so Shinji won't have any part in a Gendo made Instrumentality (or even have the opportunity to confront him), he'll be kept in solitary confinement and be a powerless spectator of it.

Also your theory runs into another problem: neo-NERV HQ is gone, it disappeared into the Chamber of Guf during Fourth Impact, so even if for some reason Shinji decided to go back there, he'll only find the ruins of Tokyo-3.

I don't know if Shinji needs validation from WILLE, but he definitively wants it, his whole reason for accepting to pilot EVA-13 with Kaworu was to repair what he thought he did and earn their forgiveness. Because Shinji cares for Misato, Asuka and even the rest of the world, and seeking their approval and forgiveness is way better than trying to seek him from his asshole of a father that have been the source of all of his woes for his entire life.

Also why going with WILLE would mean abandoning Rei Q? She too wants to go to them to find answers about her origins and her identity, if anything it's if Shinji (somehow) returns to neo-NERV that he would abandon her.

There is a major chunk of movie that will be dedicated to the Final Impact (more than in 3.0 probably) and the ending. AND 10 minutes in Paris. There is physically not enough time for Shinji to reflect on his life casually while also showing everything else (Asuka, Mari, Rei Q, Gendo, Misato and perhaps a bit of lore backdrop on the events between 2.0 and 3.0).

Rumors says that the movie will be longer than the usual Rebuild movie (maybe up to two hours) so I think that there will be enough screentime to have Shinji reflect on his life, especially since it'll the core of his character development and the culmination of his arc through all four movies, we simply can't not have such a moment in the movie, and such introspection and emotional take time to not feel rushed, so I'm confident that the movie will take the time to treat that subject, probably not in one go (going from catatonic to heroic Shinji), but by little touches through the entire movie.

[bastianstix]

Also your theory runs into another problem: neo-NERV HQ is gone, it disappeared into the Chamber of Guf during Fourth Impact

I'm really curious about this, is that what happened? The last time I recall seeing Neonerv's inverted pyramid it was floating above the black moon, right? I just assumed it fell to the ground once the Impact was stopped