How Can Shinji Help Wille Without Piloting An Eva?

[Ray]

I think the Wille crew are mature enough to recognize Shinji is just a brat and it's more beneficial to have him on their side than the enemy, they also need to recognize their errors

Errors? Misato, Sakura, Ritsuko, Asuka, and Wille were in the right. Shinji was in the wrong. He has to admit his part before anyone else is obliged to admit their part in his pain. That probably will only extend to those characters and not to the larger Wille crew. Who have every reason to dislike him.

SPOILER: Show

Of course if Shinji wasn't really responsible for N3I and everyone only thinks he's responsible because of SI-2?? (the theorized angelic clone of Shinji), or Shinji not remembering it was him who caused the impact because of Amnesia caused by being trapped in Unit-01. That'll be a wrinkle to the Wille crew holding a grudge, because they won't be able to point fingers at him without moral compulsion if he genuinely cannot remember that it was him who caused it. Or if it wasn't him at all, then he'll only be on the hook for piloting eva 13 with kaworu. Still bad, but not insurmountably bad like if he is on the hook for causing impact during the timeskip.

Shinji wouldn't be obligated to work for Wille but instead given some task to help the other people, I'm sure Shinji is willing to help and redeem himself.

Of course he will be 'obligated' to work for wille. He's morally required to do so because he has to make up for what he did somehow. Because if he doesn't want to do anything to atone, and blames others for his pain as much as they blame him. He really will be a brat and nothing will change or get better.
But something on such a small scale wont come close to atoning for his biggest mistakes. Even if he's only on the hook for piloting eva 13. The only two ways I can see Shinji somehow atoning for what he did in a way that is on the level of his mistakes is either if he pilots again which I find very unlikely to happen, or more likely killing/attempting to kill Gendo, or at least somehow permanently ruining Gendos plans in a way that doesn't require an Eva. The latter being the more likely option.

[Thesufferingpumpkin]

Think the sync ratio being 0.00 in 3.0 is probably explained as yui/Rei purposely stopping Shinji from piloting it from inside the core of unit 01 as it isn’t the time for him to pilot right now


When the moment comes in shin evangelion, call it the call of destiny for Shinji, it will be the time for him to pilot and the souls of yui and Rei will know it’s the time and he will be able to pilot it again.


In EOE it is yui taking control of unit 01 which wakes it up and breaks it free of bake lite so it may be similar case of the unit waking up and calling to Shinji again

[Ray]

When the moment comes in shin evangelion, call it the call of destiny for Shinji, it will be the time for him to pilot and the souls of yui and Rei will know it’s the time and he will be able to pilot it again.

Part of me feels that would just be too convenient and contrived, especially considering both Quantum Rei and Yui haven't really had that much of an presence in this story up to this point when compared to the original series. But I will concede it is possible.

No offense Ray but what you wrote looks almost like fan fiction,

It was GJ who came up with the theory originally. Watch the video in the Original post. Or better yet, here. Timestamped. He explains it a lot more eloquently than me.

https://youtu.be/cWIVAJ2vW04?t=474

"I think Shinji will not pilot Eva Unit 01 in the current timeline at all. He will leave that up entirely to Asuka and Mari. This is a story set up to be one about humbling, and that will likely parallel Anno's views on himself, the animator expo, and stepping down to let other people do stuff (with eva)."

Do not double post unless it's either necessary or a significant amount of time has passed from your previous post.
-Zusuchan

[Heaven Piercing Man]

I'm sick of doomer theories calling themselves realistic. There are things called audience expectations, the catharsis of resolution, the hero's journey, etc. It reminds me of a certain Hollywood director who calls underwhelming the audience with non-resolutions "subverting expectations"

Q was the doomer movie and it is so precisely as a set up for the next one; there's no way to go but UP. Otherwise, why make Shin at all if Shinji's never getting outta the deep hole Q put him in? This is Shinji's story after all.

[Ray]

I'm sick of doomer theories calling themselves realistic. There are things called audience expectations, the catharsis of resolution, the hero's journey, etc. It reminds me of a certain Hollywood director who calls underwhelming the audience with non-resolutions "subverting expectations"

Q was the doomer movie and it is so precisely as a set up for the next one; there's no way to go but UP. Otherwise, why make Shin at all if Shinji's never getting outta the deep hole Q put him in? This is Shinji's story after all.

Doomer theory? "Getting out of the hole he's in" and "piloting the eva" aren't mutually exclusive. I didn't see GJs theory as being 'Doomer' in the slightest. Shinji can confront his father and get redemption and a resolution without needlessly endangering everyone by piloting again. Saying the only way Shinj can resolve his problems and redeem himself is by piloting again is like saying that the only way a drunkard can conquer his alcoholism is if he starts drinking again. The Eva was what caused all of Shinji's problems, the resolution to that should be him saying 'no' when the opportunity to pilot comes again. Him accepting that he's not qualified to be a hero. That it's time he gave up on that and accepted that he's not the hero he wanted to be, that he needs to grow up and move on and let others take the lead, and stop trying to be the 'main character of a shonen' or else he'll keep endangering others.

Also can we please not bring up the Star Wars reboot here? I've dealt with enough online drama about that to fill billions of posts.

[kuribo-04]

He can't.

At least not in a story told via big budgets theatrical movies. Shinji has to get onboard Unit 01 at some point for the ending to happen.

I'm still not so sure about that...
Obviously we will get scenes of Shinji piloting (Eva-01 most likely). But I'm still not sure how that plays into the rest of the film. I have a feeling even if Shinji pilots, he will earn it by doing something else beforehand.

Him piloting 01 could just be the climatic epilogue to the journey he goes through beforehand. I think this could go many ways.

He needs to be given a chance onboard Unit 01 and to meet Yui/OG Rei, there is no other way to close the story thematically.

This I am sure about, yeah.

[Ray]

I have a feeling even if Shinji pilots, he will earn it by doing something else beforehand.

What do you personally think can he do to earn back peoples trust enough to be allowed to pilot again?

[kuribo-04]

I'm not sure.
That's the type of question that leads to a film 8 years in development.

Some sort of difficult thing he might pull his heart and soul into to prove he's on Wille's side. Maybe trying to contact Yui. Maybe they need something that is in his mind/memories, only accesible through some procedure
(I guess this room made me think of that:

SPOILER: Show

)

Or maybe in a huge twist he (of all people) turns out to be the support or motovation someone like Asuka or Misato need.

But it could be anything really.

[pwhodges]

He can be the cook.

That's just a grimdark nadesico.

Actually, it's my fanfic...

[kuribo-04]

That's just a grimdark nadesico.

Actually, it's my fanfic...

I gotta read it.

[pwhodges]

It's not long - barely 30k words...

[FXArmaros98]

About Shinji escaping the Wunder to get to 01 in the Dark Wunder, I can't see it happening, because unless Shinji somehow learned how to pilot a plane during his stay in 01 during the timeskip, there's no way for him to get to the Dark Wunder on his own, unless Gendo kidnaps him again, but that would be a running gag at this point.

Never said that Shinji would have piloted the Dark Wunder how did you come up with this absurdity? I thought that maybe the Dark Wunder could have located Shinji inside the Wunder and Gendo would have tried to take him away with him.

Or. Gendo succeeds in destroying the Wunder and takes all the survivors, which includes Shinji and Misato hostage to show them his final plan? Come to think of it, if the Wunder is destroyed but Unit 01 survives that may explain how Shinji can pilot again without Misato vetoing him because they need Unit 01 to power the Wunder.

I don't know, because Gendo doesn't seem like the kind of villain stupid enough and egomaniacal enough to bring his enemies into his base on to show him the magnitude of his plan and that he's actually doing the right thing. I believe instead that he may want to take Evangelion 01 back, that one way or another Shinji will end up piloting again to fix everything.We still don't know what is really going on when in the trailer we were apparently shown a restored Tokyo III such as the battlefield of Evangelion 01 and Evangelion 13 and the fact that we see in the preview we see Shinji facing Eva 01 inside apparently the old Nerv base is just too suspicious.

What do you personally think can he do to earn back peoples trust enough to be allowed to pilot again?

Maybe refuse to run away with Gendo when his father gives him the opportunity to do so. Maybe even Shinji will stop his father from killing Misato. Also, I believe Misato could finds herself in such a serious situation that all complaints from Wille members about letting Shinji pilot Evangelion 01 again will be stupid and useless due to the danger they will eventually find themselves in.

[Kendrix]

I meant in the context of the story and the themes of the story. Not that anyone is somehow 'lesser' for that in real life.

Yet you're still calling it "menial" and "bottom rung".

I mean Shinji already tried the grandiose glamorous big gesture to fix it in Q, and it exploded in his face.

There is no "fixing" or "making up". There's no rebuilding the cities or bringing back all the dead. Does he even need to "make up" for something that he's unjustly blamed for?

What he needs is to find a place. Something purposeful and helpful to do that isn't EVA. He'll need that anyway at the end of the movie, even if he pilots again. He'll need... maybe not a job in the capitalistic sense but something to DO, you know? Even if its knitting or whatever... and people DO need clothes.

I'm trying to list things that anyone can do or that Shinji was already shown to be skilled at. It's not like he's gonna be Ritsuko's understudy with only an 8th grade education. Maybe in some years. Maybe eventually there will be school again. But that's in the future first someones got to build a school.

[FXArmaros98]

What he needs is to find a place. Something purposeful and helpful to do that isn't EVA. He'll need that anyway at the end of the movie, even if he pilots again.

This is just my opinion but I believe that after Gendo eventually takes Evangelion 01 back the members of Wille will be forced to go to the place where Asuka took Shinji and Rei Q in the first 15-20 minutes of the film which is probably inhabited from other humans (maybe Toji, Kensuke, Hikari and Kaji if they are alive maybe they are there).Before Shinji has to use Evangelion 01 otherwise something much worse will happen than we have seen so far I imagine that Shinji and Hikari could help people by cooking and fixing their clothes. We still don't know what happened in this in the last half hour of this movie, it seems a little too early to speculate about the place in the world that Shinji will have to find after he may have saved the whole humanity when instead we could have only him, Asuka and Mari as surviros. But if a lot of people at the end of the movie will be alive I think Anno won't show us what happens next anyway, I suppose we could have a better version of the bittersweet ending on the beach like both the current poster and that illustration of Mahiro Maeda shared on Twitter by the Shinji's voice actress will seem to suggest.

[cyharding]

What do you personally think can he do to earn back peoples trust enough to be allowed to pilot again?

Who says he lost it in the first place?

[Blockio]

He can be the cook.

That's just a grimdark nadesico.

Well, if it really were grimdark Nadesico, then you already know how long him being the cook would last

[cyharding]

^We already got grimdark Nadesico with The Prince of Darkness movie.

[BernardoCairo]

I said this once and I'm gonna say it again. I believe that Misato will let Shinji pilot Unit 01 purely out of options. This may cause the Wille crew to be skeptical, or something. But, depending on the situation, what else could she even do? Imagine if the original plan (with Asuka, Mari and the AAA Wunder) fails in such a way that the world is about to end? Personally, in this situation, I would rather take the risk and give Shinji my blessings to pilot. What could I even lose from doing it?
Also, considering what we saw from the latest trailers/teasers, I wouldn't be surprised if Shinji is the one who asks permission to help in the fight. He seems to be motivated and focused. We all know that, by the beginning of the movie, he will be in that famous "ultra depressed" mode. However, with the help of others (probably Asuka and, perhaps, Misato herself), he will regain his will to live and to protect the people he really cares about. Not that they will encourage him to pilot the EVA, or anything. They will only advice him to be more active and accept the situation that everyone is in. In the end, all of this will culminate just before the final battle and he will be ready for it.

On a side note, I honestly think it would be cool to see him doing some "task work" like you guys suggested hahaha!

[FXArmaros98]

I believe that Misato will let Shinji pilot Unit 01 purely out of options

Exactly, no one knows what kind of shit Misato and the others will end up in, I mean if Gendo manages to deprive them of Evangelion Unit 01 the power source of the Wunder and Asuka and Mari will be in trouble against the MPEs (as the preview seems to suggest from Mari's attitude in full battle) what could they ever do but give Shinji a chance to save them all?

I wouldn't be surprised if Shinji is the one who asks permission to help in the fight. He seems to be motivated and focused.

This is what I expect to happen. I'm sure Misato and Shinji will have a long conversation (maybe Misato will talk about her past and maybe even some choices that may have taken her away from Kaji) that will lead Misato to decide to let Shinji make at least one try. Seriously but who the hell cares if Midori, Ritsuko or some other pain in the ass have no trust in Shinji if they're one step away from death?

[Ray]

I mean Shinji already tried the grandiose glamorous big gesture to fix it in Q, and it exploded in his face.
There is no "fixing" or "making up". There's no rebuilding the cities or bringing back all the dead. Does he even need to "make up" for something that he's unjustly blamed for?

The series is called rebuild of eva though.
Do you think the final payoff to Avengers would've been as impactful if they hadn't reversed the Snap and brought people back from the dead? It's called a Eucatastrophe. The opposite of what people expect, and the payoff to the catastrophe. I don't necessarily expect it from anno. But it's nice to consider it a possibility. A story needs a 'grandiose glamorous big gesture' to balance out the cataclysmic disastrous big gesture. Of course, to do that he'll have to actually pilot again, and once again I don't see that happening. So the 'Grandiose gesture' will have to be something else other than piloting.

Yet you're still calling it "menial" and "bottom rung".

What he needs is to find a place. Something purposeful and helpful to do that isn't EVA. He'll need that anyway at the end of the movie, even if he pilots again. He'll need... maybe not a job in the capitalistic sense but something to DO, you know? Even if its knitting or whatever... and people DO need clothes.

Well being a janitor for Wille is a huge step down from being a pilot of a machine to save the world from a threat. I don't really see worth in benching the main character for the majority of the story just to build up the other characters the audience has more favor towards. Then again, the story is setup to be about humbling yourself before others, so it depends on execution. I dunno. This is a topic for another thread after the final movie is out, but I'm just personally uncomfortable with the message that Shinji should just accept being in a menial task for the rest of his days and not aspire to anything greater ever again, just because of one big mistake that will always define him.

Who says he lost it in the first place?

He's still 'on the hook' for what happened in 3.33 (thought not what happened during the timeskip if the theory in the OP is correct.) That's not as insurmountable a breach in trust as if he had actually caused the deaths of a lot of people, but it's still a pretty big barrier to get over. Especially if the Wunder crew suffer casualties because he enabled Gendo.

Seriously but who the hell cares if Midori, Ritsuko or some other pain in the ass have no trust in Shinji if they're one step away from death?

I think you overestimate the Wille/Wunder Crews ability to rationally think things through when it comes to Shinji and just react emotionally to him because they think he's dangerous. I mean living in a post apocalyptic hell and eating goop from a tube might suck, but it's a step up from being dead. Which would have happened if Shinji hadn't piloted. But they don't exactly seem grateful for that. (See OP for the theory why)

Granted if it is Shinji and no other option. I can see them begrudgingly going along with him piloting one last time. But if even if everyone else is reluctantly onboard with it. The person I don't see being onboard with it is Shinji himself. He might say something like 'I'll just mess up again and you'll hate me even more."