The Idiot Ball in Q - Lazy Writing or Thematically Poignant?

[Bagheera]

The government probably did try to stop them. Nerv HQ is shot to fuck, and it's not just because Shinji shit out the new world on top of it. When Shinji goes outside with Kaworu you can see the wall they're standing against has been bombarded at some point, and I'm pretty sure that wall would have been subterranean, or at least way the hell down in the Geofront, before N3I.

Yeah, but the looks of it Wille is what's left of that effort.

[kboyrulez12345]

The government probably did try to stop them. Nerv HQ is shot to fuck, and it's not just because Shinji shit out the new world on top of it. When Shinji goes outside with Kaworu you can see the wall they're standing against has been bombarded at some point, and I'm pretty sure that wall would have been subterranean, or at least way the hell down in the Geofront, before N3I.

Oh yeah, I forgot about those scenes. Been a while since I've seen Q. That's another thing that can contribute to Willie's behavior emotionally. The fact that not even the whole damn government can stop Nerv. Kinda makes them even more pissed that they previously worked with them to the point where Nerv got strong enough to stop a whole damn military.

Imagine this. What would the citizens think of Misato and co, the citizens who lost loved ones? Obviously Misato and co probably got some shit from those people, no matter how many times they pleaded that they didn't know Nerv was trying to cause an Impact, they got spit on and hate on anyway.

That would actually be a brilliant juxtaposition of Shinji's case. No matter how much Shinji pleads with Willie, "I only wanted to save Rei!", Willie won't care.

What do you all think of this?

[Conspicuous]

I don't see that at all. To me his captivity is far too organized to be any sort of haphazard affair. And frankly, the fact that Asuka called out to him during Operation US strongly suggests they knew he was in there somewhere. The notion that they didn't consider the fact he might come with the package strikes me as absurd.

There's a big difference between Shinji having a presence in the Eva and being actually physically himself, though. Presumably, they figured he'd be in about the same condition as Yui: "existing", but being completely absorbed into the Eva. Calling to Shinji's presence in the Eva as a desperate prayer and expecting to get him back in human form are two wholly separate things.

Either way, why would WILLE go through the trouble of materializing him out of the Eva if they absolutely don't want him to to anything and just plan to keep him locked up in a cell? As a punching bag for the crew?
Honestly, it just sounds like a massive waste of time and resources for WILLE to retrieve him themselves. They don't gain anything from it, so given how valuable those resources are, it would be the least sensible action to take for them.

Either way, hanging onto a very powerful collar just in case they ever have a use for it, like if they could get their hands on Kaworu if he was ever deployed, or if any of their own pilots goes through unexpected Eva-related trouble sounds pretty reasonable to me. They strongly imply that the reason they used it on Shinji was not planned ahead but happened because Eva-01 unexpectedly activated, and that they want to prevent that scenario from reoccurring at all costs.

No one's claiming that; I'd just like to make a distinction between "understandable, and VERY common human error" and "selfishly clinging to one's delusion."

And calling hero complex on someone who repeatedly told everyone trying to convince him to get into them mechas than he's really not sure he can do it right is just cruel.
He KNOWS he's not exactly a shining beacon of competence, but sadly, EVA 13 requires two pilots.

The question of "Wait, what if it blows up again" was something he thought about and debated with Kaworu long before he even saw the spears, before he touched the Evangelions in the first place, part of why he initially refused to get into EVA 13 at first - it's not like he didn't spare a thought to that possibility.

Eh, fair enough. I am pretty judgemental and am probably judging the kid too harshly.

Either way, when he shut Kaworu out of the controls and went on about how he's going to pull the spears for Kaworu and the others, he's pretty obviously thinking he's doing "The Right Thing", and that doing that involves going against their (current) wishes. Which is what I consider to be part of the "Delusional Hero" package. The kid's error is understandable, but ultimately, I wouldn't call it rational. He made a very big gamble, and his risk-assessment abilities were pretty much entirely down the drain.

On an unrelated note, Kaworu previously took the DSS Choker from Shinji, and with it the immediate consequences of an Eva Awakening. Meaning that Shinji was essentially bargaining with Kaworu's life over his own.

Honestly, the more I think about it, the more messed up this film becomes.

[Azathoth]

Yeah, but the looks of it Wille is what's left of that effort.

I don't know if I'd say that. I mean yeah, they want to wreck Nerv's shit, but to be honest Wille seem like yet another dubiously legal paramilitary organization, using stolen alien technology to gain way more power than anyone should probably have. The movie specifically portrays Gendou and Misato as both intending to make use of this poorly defined "power to kill god", and Gendou is almost comically nonchalant at Misato's activities in the course of the movie. (Moreover, Wunder could surely take out what's left of Nerv HQ -- what's stopping Misato from cutting off the head of the serpent here? Of course, earlier she specifies that she doesn't want to destroy Nerv but Nerv's Evas, but why give a shit about Nerv's Evas if you can kill Gendou and Fuyutsuki in one shot?). Although Wille are using military equipment to supplement their weird alien ship (where did they get this thing, anyway? it's like a reprocessed Eva to some extent, right? god, Q should have been called Frodo: The Movie), their personnel appear to be ex-Nerv supplemented with any random asshole they could find. Without any real information on who attacked Nerv the first time, I'm not sure I'd conclude that Wille has "legitimate" military backing, simply because I see zero evidence that there exists any such thing as a "legitimate" military in the post-3I Earth.

Doesn't make their crusade any less understandable, though.

[Bagheera]

Either way, why would WILLE go through the trouble of materializing him out of the Eva if they absolutely don't want him to to anything and just plan to keep him locked up in a cell? As a punching bag for the crew?

As I've always maintained, probably because they actually want him back and don't really hate him after all. They're upset and angry and bitter and cynical, but they want to forgive him. They want him back because he's a person and they can bring him back, simple as that.

Without any real information on who attacked Nerv the first time, I'm not sure I'd conclude that Wille has "legitimate" military backing, simply because I see zero evidence that there exists any such thing as a "legitimate" military in the post-3I Earth.

I thought the Pacific Fleet in all its glory was a pretty good indicator of such, but I suppose that could be read in lots of different ways.

[Ornette]

It doesn't matter if it happened last month, there's no reason to have the collar once Kaworu is no longer on the payroll. Like, none. Explaining why they'd still have it requires an awful lot of mental gymnastics, whereas assuming they planned to get Shinji out fits rather nicely with what's seen onscreen (i.e., Asuka calling out to him and the fact Wille has the collar).

There's no reason for them to destroy it once Kaworu had left.

[Bagheera]

There's no reason for them to destroy it once Kaworu had left.

Assuming it just happened to be lying around, sure. But then you're drifting into coincidence territory, which is not the best argument to be made here.

[ElMariachi]

I really think that WILLE weren't expecting Shinji to come back from the entry plug... come back in human form.

The more a plug depth is great, the more the pilot get close to the core, get too close and said core "contaminate" the pilot(curse of Eva?), get even closer and it might literally absorb the pilot into the core, Shinji's plug depth in 2.0 reached completely insane levels, probable the farthest any pilot ever reached... only one person ever got farther : Yui, who directly made contact with the core of EVA-01.

Now if Ritsuko knew of what happened to Yui and that she became EVA-01's control system(or if WILLE learned of EVA-01's secret during the time skip), maybe they thought that Shinji fared the same fate : he was absorbed and assimilated by the Eva.

When they recuperated the Eva in operation US, maybe they didn't thought that Shinji was inside EVA-01's entry plug, but that he was EVA-01, and since Yui never came back from the contact experiment, then logically Shinji is a goner too.

That would also explain why Asuka called for Shinji : she was told that now he's more or less EVA-01, and when she called for his help, it wasn't for him to somehow wake up from inside his entry plug, but more along the line of "Hey baka, now you're that big godly thing right? So move your ass and make that abomination go Berserk or something like that like your mother did 14 years ago and do something to save my ass!"
And then the miracle happened : EVA-01 responded to her plea, awoke and destroyed the NS! Asuka probably though that Shinji really became the Eva's control system.

But then something unimaginable happened : when WILLE recuperated the Eva from the crash site , freed it from the tesseract and removed the entry plug(to see what was inside? Just to be sure that EVA-01 won't react? To scavenge the entry plug? All of this at the same time?) Shinji fucking Ikari was materialized inside!
Shinji did something that was deemed impossible : he was completely absorbed and assimilated by the Eva, but somehow separated himself from the Eva and came back under an independent human form!

Then WILLE must have thought : how is that even possible?! How did he do that?! He can't be human to have been able to do that! We must take precautions, that guy can't be human!
Cue the DSS Choker, a device initially planned to contain, supervise and terminate an Angel in human form, so that must work for whatever the hell this... thing in Shinji's flesh is, at least until we can determine if it's really Shinji Ikari and not the Tenth Angel that managed to freed itself from the Eva's core and take human form or something like that!

Now if Shinji is also accused of destroying the world or not is another story...

[kboyrulez12345]

Assuming it just happened to be lying around, sure. But then you're drifting into coincidence territory, which is not the best argument to be made here.

Well, having it lying around is not really hurting anything either.

Also, I'm curious as to what you make of my previous posts about how Willie were being spur by their emotions.

[Zoop]

The number and the name Shinji Ikari? (with the question mark) written on his foot seems to suggest he wasn't the only 'thing' that came out of Eva 01. Which makes me think that they were actually trying to get him out (and failed a couple of times at first). The reason could be very simple, not that they want Shinji back, but they don't want him in the core. Obviously that would case too much of a risk (if he does the same as he did in space while he's inside the wunder, could cause some problems).

I think they never thought they would get him out intact or alive.

[FreakyFilmFan4ever]

@ ZOOP, Shinji is the tentative third child. The number on his foot suggests that. Other Shinji-like things couldn't have come out of Unit 01 because they weren't stored in there to begin with. They weren't cloning Shinji, Ripy in Alien Resurrection style. If any active searching was done it would have resulted in finding something or not finding something.

I mean, if they did have the means to return people to humanity, then Rei or Yui might have also been extracted. And if they were, the wouldn't have confused them to the point where they would need a numbering system to catalogue these things. They would be like, "Dude, that's a chick." "Yeah, it's probably not Shinji."



This conversation seems to prove that no one was expecting Shinji to come out:

SPOILER: Show

They weren't expecting Rei to come out. That's why Asuka seems to disinterested in the question being asked, because the correct answer is "Why would she come out?"

Then Asuka cuts to the chase with Shinji:

SPOILER: Show

Right after eluding that no one was expecting Rei to come out of Unit 01, she turns the tables right onto Shinji. Her tone becomes different as she seems to address Shinji specifically with her line. Asuka blatantly tells Shinji that no one in Wille is concerned with one person. Not even him. Why would they be? How would they have known Shinji was in there to extract? Remember, she was in the same state as Shinji was in Unit 01. If Rei was thought not to have existed, then Shinji would also have been thought not to have existed.

It's simple deductive reasoning, really. If A, then B. If no one thinks Rei exists, and Rei was in the same state Shinji as in, then no one thought Shinji existed either.

We remember what happened to everyone else during N3I, right?

This  SPOILER: Show

Who knows what state Shinji is in? Not Wille, that's for sure. If he's not tanged and unable to return to Humanity then he was either speared to death right afterwards or has become a sacrifice himself. Maybe bot in the same way everyone else has, but in some way. The possibilities are endless, and very few of them would sensibly include "And Shinji was still inside Unit 01 and lived happily ever after."

If no one at Wille, Misato included, is concerned about one person, then why would they spend 14 years, or any amount of time or that matter, planning the retrieval of one person?

Could it be because they think he might be an Impact Trigger? No, it's not that reason. They didn't seem to wise up to that until much later.

About this much later, actually  SPOILER: Show

But then why put a collar on Shinji if they didn't think he was still an Impact Trigger at the time? It's because the Eva Unit was being unpredictable.

About this unpredictable, actually  SPOILER: Show

Everything they state as being a reason why they had done what they done comes from two things:

1) Not making a "fuss over one person," which includes making a trip out to space for someone they didn't think either existed or could return to humanity.

2) Weird and unexpected things that occurred only after making contact with Unit 01 in outer space, due to Shinji's unexpected existence.

There's no reason to believe that Misato knew Shinji still existed, what with N3!, Unit 01 getting speared in the back, and it being 14 years of Shinji supposedly dying a slow and painful death from the wounds if he still existed after N3I.

Does it distance Shinji from the others? Yes.

Does this make it difficult for Shinji to be in their world with them? Yes.

Does this alienate Shinji? Yes.

Why, it looks like Anno has placed his audience into Shinji's perspective REALLY well if they're also constantly wondering why everyone's so mean to Shinji if everything seems to be about Shinji, despite the fact that Wille doesn't make a "fuss over one person," and never actually thought he'd return to humanity, as Ritsuko put it at the end of Ha, or even exist anymore, as Misato put it at the beginning of Q.

I mean, if we're gonna judge the actions and thoughts of the characters in this thread, we might as well, actually, you know, judge what the characters are doing and thinking. And both movies support this thought.

EDIT: Actually, watch me negate my own point for a moment. Asuka probably would have believed that Shinji is still alive and well in Unit 01. She calls out to him during battle and stuff, and that's either wishful thinking or something inside her really believes that Shinji's alive. This probably goes back to her experience with an Angel in Ha. Even though they're not the same, they do have enough similarities where it would now be Asuka's turn to vicariously live through Shinji. Final might help us understand more one way or the other.

Miato, on the other hand, probably didn't believe Shinji still existed. After all, if they really went looking in there to extract people, they would have found evidence for not only Rei, but also Yui. Fuyutsuki states that they are both stored inside Unit 01. So if they really are there, going in there and extracting him would have resulted in finding other folks in there too. Misato is either lying to Shinji about the existence of Rei (which would make Shinji's accusation against her a correct one), or she simply doesn't know because they don't have that sort of control over that sort of thing.

I tend to think the latter is most likely. Evidence can always be presented to to contrast that thought, but the movies haven't unveiled it yet. And everyone seems to be reacting like Shinji was an unwanted surprise to them.

[Bagheera]

I mean, if we're gonna judge the actions and thoughts of the characters in this thread, we might as well, actually, you know, judge what the characters are doing and thinking. And both movies support this thought.

Well, not quite. The problem is that none of the snippets of conversation you offer here conclusively say the things you seem to think they do. For example, take the first one: you take it to mean they didn't think Rei would come out of Unit 01, while I take it to mean that they looked for her, didn't find her, and just don't care. This is not surprising given that it seems to be common knowledge she was a clone, and that there is clearly another one working for Nerv at that very moment. Shinji thinks she's the be-all, end-all of existence, but for them she's not even human. Then we move on to "all this fuss for just one person." But that's not referring to the operation (which was clearly orchestrated to get Unit 01 so it could power the Wunder) so much as to the interrogation, which involves the two highest-ranking members of Wille, a pilot, and the ship's medical officer. That's a lot of fuss, and it amounts to mollycoddling the kid. But that says nothing about whether or why they dragged him out of Unit 01 in the first place. It hardly seems accidental -- at the very least they wanted him out of there so he wouldn't influence the thing, but the fact they didn't just kill him indicates more is behind it. And that is supported by Asuka's rather barbed comment to Misato.

And who knows what state Shinji's in? Everyone, probably (at least everyone at Nerv and Wille). They know he's in the core of Unit 01 somewhere, and the reason they know this is because the unit had to be recovered so that the Spear of Cassius could be removed and the thing could be bound up in a tesseract and launched into orbit. It's not a stretch to assume they probably checked the entry plug before they did that, which means they knew he was absorbed -- hence Asuka's call for his aid during the operation. So why spend all that time getting him back? They didn't, obviously. They spent all that time getting Unit 01 back, but they had to have a plan for how to deal with Shinji at the same time. If he was Unit 01's control system they had to plan for that. If he came back physically they had to plan with that. If something else was going on they had to plan for that as well. There were many potential possibilities there, and like any military group they had to plan for all of them to the best of their ability. And they did -- that's why they swiped the bomb collar when they grabbed the Wunder (or when they left Nerv, whenever). You'd think they have a plan for keeping the kid pacified as well, but Anno either didn't think that part through or he just didn't give a shit.

Here's the main problem with objections to Shower-kun's post: everyone seems to be assuming he's arguing for things that aren't part of the equation. He doesn't want Wille to be coldly logical instead of angry, bitter humans. He doesn't want the scene to be anti-climatic. He doesn't want the scene to fail utterly when it comes to showing us things from Shinji's perspective, either. Instead he's saying that he gets what Anno was trying to do but feels the approach used didn't adequately accomplish those goals. He's saying there are other ways to achieve those goals that wouldn't have reduced the emotional tension in those scenes in the least, and that could have enabled the movie to run its course without sacrificing the development of everyone apart from Shinji in the process. He's saying what we have here is a brute force way of getting the job done that's utterly lacking in the finesse Anno showed with the previous installments in the series.

Yes, it's effective at showing how Shinji feels hated and confused, but that's not the point. The point is that it could be better, and some of the ways to make it better are obvious enough that Anno's failure to use them is both frustrating and confusing.

Edit: on the point about Rei, you seem to be forgetting the fact she's a clone. You also seem to be forgetting the fact that Yui wanted to go into Unit 01. So if Yui wants to be in there and Rei has no soul to place in there (or if her soul has joined with Yui's somehow) it would follow that Shinji would be all Wille could find in there.

[Azathoth]

It's ironic because the horrible consequences of the failure to accept sudden, unaccountable, unfair change and move the fuck on with the situation as it is presented to you, rather than loaf about comforting yourself by fantasizing how much better it could have been if you only went back and did blah blah blah is exactly what the movie's about. This movie gets v. Taoist at points, the whole thing kind of implies it's better to disregard introspection, acquire skylike reservoir and just do whatever you think is best.

@FFF4E: This isn't directed at you more than anyone else actually, but it struck me looking at your post that Asuka's "isn't that right, Captain Katsuragi" holds the key to the scene. Way for me to say this right after I finish denigrating fan fantasies, but she's throwing that line back in Misato's face, only I'm pretty sure we never see Misato's delivery of it. But it would have been about Shinji, of course. Asuka asked about Shinji, before Operation US began, and Misato told her -- that. That's why the part where Mari teases Asuka about going to see Shinji is in the movie, it's an explication of the last line Asuka delivered.

[Gendo'sPapa]

In regards to the Collar existing:

Someone on here hypothesized that in 4.0 Asuka would reveal to Shinji that she's wearing a DSS Choker as well. That could very well give the collars a reason to exist, a final safety measure against the pilots rebelling & causing untold levels of destruction with their Evas. It exists not just for Kaworu but for all pilots & wearing it - for Wille pilots at least - is mandatory to pilot an Eva, thus assuring that if a pilot was to somehow "awaken an Eva", go on a rampage or attempt to initiate another Impact they could be immediately & permanently stopped for the greater. We never see Asuka or Mari out of their plug suits in 3.0 & when activated we see the Choker is covered up the suit so whoever put forth that idea I like. Revealing that in the next film would be something in Anno's wheel house.
Asuka or Mari: Oh Shinji, you felt so betrodden & hated for being the only having to bear that punishment.
Pulls down the neck of their plug suit - or just bares their naked chest for "fan service" - revealing a DSS Choker.
Asuka or Mari: We all carry that burden, Shinji-kun.

.... Or however Anno would write it.

Anywho, I gotta read this thread. Looks like there's a lot of strong arguments & points made! I just need more time! Gah!

[kboyrulez12345]

Well, not quite. The problem is that none of the snippets of conversation you offer here conclusively say the things you seem to think they do. (snip)

What Azathoth said. Isn't that kind of the point? I wish you responded to my previous posts about the emotions of Willie. Because like I said, even the most professional of people can let their emotions get to them. Yes, there could have been a better way to do that scene, but like I said to you some time ago, I believe it's better to focus on 'what is' and not 'what could have been'. Yes, there could have been a better way to asses the situation, but the fact of the matter is, the damage is already done, so I don't think there is any point in contemplating it, in-universe or from a directional standpoint.

[Bagheera]

What Azathoth said. Isn't that kind of the point? I wish you responded to my previous posts about the emotions of Willie.

There's nothing to respond to there because, as I've noted several times already, their emotions aren't the problem.

Because like I said, even the most professional of people can let their emotions get to them. Yes, there could have been a better way to do that scene, but like I said to you some time ago, I believe it's better to focus on 'what is' and not 'what could have been'. Yes, there could have been a better way to asses the situation, but the fact of the matter is, the damage is already done, so I don't think there is any point in contemplating it, in-universe or from a directional standpoint.

If people say "yeah, that could have been handled better, but oh well" I have no problem with their position. That is in fact my take on the issue, and I've explained it away myself on a number of occasions. But if someone instead says "the scene is perfect as is" or "you just don't understand the BRILLIANCE of the film" that's another matter. I'm perfectly happy to just let it go but others seem to think it's worth talking about so here we are.

[Azathoth]

I'm gonna repost this from the last page although I was the one who posted it in the first place, because it's a lot more interesting than chat about Wille's hurt feelings imo (and is relevant to the debate of what Wille were expecting to find inside that hypercross thing).

It struck me looking at this image that Asuka's "isn't that right, Captain Katsuragi" holds the key to the scene. Way for me to say this right after I finish denigrating fan fantasies, but she's throwing that line back in Misato's face, only I'm pretty sure we never see Misato's delivery of it. But it would have been about Shinji, of course. Asuka asked about Shinji, before Operation US began, and Misato told her -- that. That's why the part where Mari teases Asuka about going to see Shinji is in the movie, it's an explication of the last line Asuka delivered.

[Bagheera]

I'm gonna repost this from the last page although I was the one who posted it in the first place, because it's a lot more interesting than chat about Wille's hurt feelings imo (and is relevant to the debate of what Wille were expecting to find inside that hypercross thing).

Might be good for a separate topic, but I agree with your point here. I can't imagine Asuka didn't bring it up, and that means Misato and Ritz at the least had to be thinking they might find something in there. It does make me wonder why Asuka would care, though; is Mari right, and she really is still stuck on Shinji after all this time? It seems unlikely, but stranger things have happened.

[Azathoth]

Might be good for a separate topic, but I agree with your point here. I can't imagine Asuka didn't bring it up, and that means Misato and Ritz at the least had to be thinking they might find something in there. It does make me wonder why Asuka would care, though; is Mari right, and she really is still stuck on Shinji after all this time? It seems unlikely, but stranger things have happened.

Shikinami's character is like what a fifty-year-old man thinks a ditzy teenager with manic rage in her heart would be like if she had to live through the apocalypse for fifteen years while never aging. That is to say, her character is so innately absurd and blind of reference that the breadth of the possible behaviors Anno can sell for her is more or less infinite. Which is I'm sure the whole point of the time skip. I wouldn't be surprised if Anno's going for "hurr seh has crush" but her actions re Shinji speak for themselves - she feels super strongly about him, she blames him for the state of her life (not without reason but it's clearly a big unhealthy thing for her), wishes he was dead though she gets pretty worked up before she admits it, and the thing that I think adds the most nuance transitions in her view of him from "baka" to "gaki", acknowledges openly one of the movie's big breaks from previous Eva in its portrayal of Shinji, that he's not just "stupid", something he can't help, but is instead a "brat", deliberately behaving badly. But even though she sees that and takes it as an opening to vent her feelings on Shinji, she is still embarrassed when Mari needles her about wanko and I guess Anno just figures there's a sexual component to her blaming of him which I wouldn't be surprised by at all given the nature of Shinji's attack on her in Ha, and to be honest though Shikinami has shown none of this so far really and may not even if she gets the backstory spotlight for a bit in Final, from precedent I would say the fact that the character is even associated with the name of Asuka implies misdirection of libido. Also it's Eva, everyone who has strong feelings about something is probably going to symbolically devour it at some point or sth so it comes with the territory that she wants to hatefuck him with her robot fist.

e: oh fuck, I typed all this up and then forgot to mention that Anno is probably trying to imply something about her having a tension between motherly and carnal feeling towards him with her plugsuit being so prominently half-red and half-purple in the post-N4I landscape. which is super weird but it fits with the general trend of her character in this movie to step into the role recently vacated by Misato, the older woman who serves as the protagonist's mentor and initiates him into adulthood by symbolically bleeding into his mouth when they make out, or something like that. and it also fits with her identification of him as a brat - that is, a child. In some ways it's been ignored, because her behavior in this movie (and, let's face it, the last one) was so ludicrous that it's easiest to explain away with "anime teenagers doing anime teenager shit", but Asuka actually does act like she is fourteen years older than him mentally and though she does not look it, she is MUCH more mature than him as the two of them are portrayed in this movie. Not that it's much of an accomplishment to be more mature than Shinji is in this movie. So, she doesn't consider herself the same age as him - how could she? So, she doesn't have a plan for how to behave with him, it's very ambiguous...

[Bagheera]

Hmmm. I'm inclined to throw a completely different spin on it. Something peculiar I've noticed about Q is that most of the non-Shinji character development doesn't involve him in the slightest. That's not odd in and of itself, makes sense really, but given the relentlessly Shinji-centric narrative it's something that I think is easy to miss. What I'm getting at here is this: what if her barb toward Misato had nothing to do with Shinji, and everything to do with Misato? What if she couldn't care less about the kid (at least not romantically -- she obviously has strong feelings of anger and resentment toward him, go figure), but is mad that Misato is so focused on him? Maybe she knows Misato was bluffing when she said they couldn't afford to worry about a single person, and that's what the barb was about?

It's all fanwank at this point, since Shikinami is every bit as much of a cipher as Mari, and we still don't know jack or shit about her background. She doesn't seem to have the obsession with adulthood that her predecessor did, but even so she probably views Misato as a maternal figure and would resent any attention she paid toward Shinji, the "favored sibling" as it were. So she pokes and prods a bit, shows a bit of insubordination, rants at Shinji not because she gives a shit about him per se but rather to show Misato she's not happy with him becoming the center of attention. As you said virtually anything is possible given the setup provided, so maybe her lines are a hint about the other relationships in Q and just use Shinji as a focus. It would fit with the other little hints and tidbits we've seen to date.

Put simply, what if Shikinami is acting like a hateful little sister rather than a spurned love interest? And of course this shows us why they'd bring Shinji back -- hate him they may, but even so he's still family.