Will Shinji Ever Find Love In The End?

[Ray]

@ElMariachi

I would love to. . . but I'm afraid I'd spontaneously join the "Anno turned Misato into a B*tch" hate wagon. I'm perfectly content to wait because I don't want to feel that way about my favorite character. Again, at least that way if 4.0 fails I can get all my angst out at once instead of hoping for a happy ending for Shinji only to see him fail. . . Again.

I'm hoping for reconciliation with Misato, thats the only thing I want to see for sure in 4.0. be it a happy or hellish ending.

As for Shipping. I personally believe the Rebuilds should end on an ambiguous note when it comes to shipping. Let it end without Shinji ending up with someone but at least give him the potential to move on. Assuming he survives and doesn't die in a huge Final battle between him in Unit 01 and a Gendo/Lilith/Rei Hybrid.

[Lennik]

@ElMariachi

I would love to. . . but I'm afraid I'd spontaneously join the "Anno turned Misato into a B*tch" hate wagon. I'm perfectly content to wait because I don't want to feel that way about my favorite character. Again, at least that way if 4.0 fails I can get all my angst out at once instead of hoping for a happy ending for Shinji only to see him fail. . . Again.

Wait a minute, you haven't seen 3.0 and yet you're making assertions about what Misato did and who Mari is working for?

[Ray]

Let me clarify.

I've seen SOME of 3.0, from the beginning up to the part where he's rescued by Rei Q. Circumstances pulled me away from the movie before I could finish watching it. From what I saw, I just didn't like what Anno did to Misato. Then the reviews came in. . . and they were scathing. Especially when it came to Misato. Clearly Anno ticked a LOT of fans off. Not wanting to be ticked off I've decided to wait.

As for the Mari assumption. That was all me, and I apologize.

[Charsi]

I didn't mind Misato at all, because I didn't really see enough of her to get invested.

She (or WILLE or anyone) doesn't really get enough screen time to get fleshed out, so all we see is meanie Misato being mean to BM-03. It's Shinji's movie.

[Giji Shinka]

Let me clarify.

I've seen SOME of 3.0, from the beginning up to the part where he's rescued by Rei Q. Circumstances pulled me away from the movie before I could finish watching it. From what I saw, I just didn't like what Anno did to Misato. Then the reviews came in. . . and they were scathing. Especially when it came to Misato. Clearly Anno ticked a LOT of fans off. Not wanting to be ticked off I've decided to wait.

Just watch the film. ◕ _____ ◕

[pwhodges]

Then the reviews came in. . . and they were scathing. Especially when it came to Misato. Clearly Anno ticked a LOT of fans off. Not wanting to be ticked off I've decided to wait.

No, some reviews were scathing - others were not. You could form your own opinion by simply watching it; then you could join in the discussions meaningfully instead of this half-cocked approach. Note also that many people have said that watching it more than once has greatly improved their opinion of the film.

[ElMariachi]

I've seen SOME of 3.0, from the beginning up to the part where he's rescued by Rei Q. Circumstances pulled me away from the movie before I could finish watching it.

Wait a second, where did you exactly stopped seeing it : when Mark.09 punched through the Wunder hull, or when Shinji arrived at neo-NERV?
Because if it's the later, then you've pretty much seen everything about Misato in this movie, her later appearance is of a few seconds each barking orders and whispering Shinji's name.

[Bagheera]

Wait a second, where did you exactly stopped seeing it : when Mark.09 punched through the Wunder hull, or when Shinji arrived at neo-NERV?
Because if it's the later, then you've pretty much seen everything about Misato in this movie, her later appearance is of a few seconds each barking orders and whispering Shinji's name.

That last bit is important, though.

[ElMariachi]

That last bit is important, though.

Indeed, it's a confirmation of the scene when she couldn't detonate the DSS Choker that she still cares for him.

[LightDragonman]

I bet Misato will find a way to redeem herself in front of Shinji somehow. Granted, the role of Misato in the original series is more or less taken by Asuka now, so I'm not sure where she'll go in terms of development.

Onto another note. I was thinking back to all the motifs of the saga, and I think that the SDAT player may be one of the keys in terms of predicting how Shinji will find love in the end. In the original series, the player was more or less a metaphor for Shinji curling up in a ball and rejecting reality. In Rebuild though, it seems to be more or less a symbol for his inner self as a whole. The one time he threw it away was when he was at his lowest point; with him retrieving it along with Rei as his act of trying to move forward. Not to mention that it was broken upon his revival from Unit 01, symbolizing how his attempt to move forward failed. Kaworu's fixing of it and subsequent abandonment of it at the end also mirrors his failed attempt at trying to give Shinji hope. In this case, it was by trying to "Redo" his past actions.

Now with all that said, I can't help but continue to look back at the final shots of the film as an indicator for the last film's direction. Asuka, in a formal mirror of Misato from EoE, forcibly drags Shinji out of his entry plug; basically forcing him out of his shell and into reality you could say. In a sense, her words and actions to him are Anno's to the viewers; to stop retreating into your ponds and actually live your life. However, in the process, she causes Shinji to lose his SDAT player again.

If this were the original series, this would be seen as the next logical step for his progression, since there it was him retreating into his shell and the like. Yet since the last time he lost his player was when he was ironically retreating from reality in 2.22, I can't help but see this as Anno communicating something different here. Asuka has the right idea in mind, but she has forgotten to do it in a way that is digestible and not harsh. Basically, her causing Shinji to drop the player, from my POV, suggests that she, like Misato in EoE, may ultimately fail to make Shinji grow and take action. He may instead become like MGS4 Raiden; he's taking action and not trying to redo, but without his heart or spirit behind it. Without that key element, it is all for naught. It's almost like this is Anno's way of critiquing the original series in a sense (if he is at all).

That said, it also shows Rei Q sadly looking down at it, a near shot-for-shot callback to when Rei II did the same in 2.22. Personally, I can't help but see this as Anno subtly communicating to us that he hasn't forgotten the hope and idealism viewers initially took from 2.22's climax, and that this is a way of him reassuring us of it. Not to mention that Rei's character is completely different here than it was in the original series, with her actually becoming more complete as a person, even in 3.33, where Rei Q underwent a similar struggle as Rei II.

What does this mean? I may be wrong, but I feel that Rei Q's action here at the end suggests that she is the one who actually understands Shinji's personal being, and is able to reach out to him, because she has his soul in mind. If all you are going to do is just cram his face with knowledge and directions on how to live his life in the hopes that you can force him to grow, like what Asuka is doing (not unlike Misato in EoE) you're going to fail. Without the key element in mind, who he is as a person, what with his own personality and way of thing, you are not going to succeed, instead causing Shinji to just retreat more into his shell. By comparison, Rei Q seems to actually remember who he actually is, and understands where he is coming from.

In fact, understanding may indeed be the ultimate way in which the others can reach out to him and allow him to find love. Asuka may have the right idea in terms of what he needs to do, but it is Rei who knows how to get him to grow up. If Asuka symbolizes the original series' message and how it delivered it to the viewers, Rei represents the Rebuild saga and its way of delivering its point.

Just some thoughts from my over-analytical brain.

[Bagheera]

I bet Misato will find a way to redeem herself in front of Shinji somehow. Granted, the role of Misato in the original series is more or less taken by Asuka now, so I'm not sure where she'll go in terms of development.

Misato doesn't need to redeem herself because she hasn't done anything wrong. I think it's more likely she'll find a way to forgive Shinji and accept him again as part of her family, something Asuka will also have to do.

[Lennik]

Misato doesn't need to redeem herself because she hasn't done anything wrong. I think it's more likely she'll find a way to forgive Shinji and accept him again as part of her family, something Asuka will also have to do.

Not only that, but as of the ending Shinji doesn't seem to harbor any will towards Misato, even saying that what he's trying to do (pulling the spears and restoring the world) is also for her sake. She has no need to redeem herself to him because he doesn't blame her.

[Ray]

Not in the eyes of Shinji perhaps, but in the eyes of the audience. I still think the bomb collar was going too far. But again I'll wait until 4.0 to judge completely.

To keep this thread from going completely off track. I dont like the fact that Anno pretty much broke every shippers heart with the 14 year time skip. Every woman in his life is either dead or too old, and Kaworu is a corpse.

But then again Anno loves subverting our expectations so I'm not too upset. I'm not much of a shipper anyway, and if it's in Annos will that Shinji be denied love, marriage, and a normal life.I 'll go along with it as long as he finds some kind of happy ending at the end of 4.0.

[Sachi]

I think 2.22 was the most shipping we're going to get in the Rebuild films; considering it reflects that happy/action-arc phase of the NGE and we're now in the equivalent of the descent-arc just before the final two episodes (AKA the finale), why should we expect to see anymore shipping?

It's clear what ultimately needs to happen in the end because the story has shown that it is not about finding love in others, but it is about finding love in oneself; Shinji needs to learn to move forward and pull himself up, accepting the consequences of his actions and learning to live with them; he needs to get caught up with the world and remember the he is in the same boat as everybody else, which means he should keep in consideration that his actions can and will have an effect on them.

What he does not need is another feel-good distraction that smothers him in attention and keeps him blinded to his real problems and the rest of the world (*ahem* Kaworu ).

[Chroma]

Dropping the bomb that Rei = Yui kinda killed what seemed to be the developing romance of Rei/Shinji in 2, so that's done (unfortunately).

Asuka basically hates, or is very disappointed, with Shinji and doesn't show anymore the bit of romantic interest that was in 2 kills this ship.

Misato is the same as Asuka, only she's also older and colder so there's that.

Mari doesn't seem interested in anything but his smell and actions, and hardly had more than 2 conversations with him, so that's done.

I think Anno wanted to move away from the shipping (especially because that's a big part of the fanbase and he kinda hates his otaku fans), but I'm sure 4.0 is gonna end with Shinji in love with his life, kinda like in EoE where he accepts himself. Maybe.

[LightDragonman]

Choose life and then live after all (dang it, need to stop playing MGS so much ).

And hey, even though I'm a shipper, and as such hope that LRS happens, I can accept it if it doesn't happen. That said, I'm not sure that the reveal of Rei's origins has completely killed its chances, if all the formal callbacks to Rei II that Rei Q went through showed. Not to mention that Shinji didn't really seem too bothered by the fact that she was a clone so much as that she was gone.

But hey, that's just me.

[Pen-Pen02]

I agree with the idea that Shinji only needs his own love. And love that he needs to find it's not outside. It's just inside him. Yeah, I know. In this moment it could be maybe imposible for him to get some of peace for himself, but I think he could get it in some way during 4.0. How? I don't know, but I almost sure Anno will do it. It could be just like Mari said him. He MUST know the world where he's living now, try to forgive himself and get strong. He did a terrible mistake, that's true, but he knows has to pay it. Well, that's the key. It's the only way to redemption. Accept his situation and go on with this. He tried to take a shortcut to his problems with Kaworu (because Shinji trusted in him and for his own desperation), but now he knows all of this was a big mistake, again. Then, Shinji doesn't have excuses for the future to take better decisions and now he has to continue with his life and go on.

Then, since my own POV, I think Rebuild is not about shipping or a reset button to solve all Shinji's problems. I think Rebuild is about love for one-self and mature. Anno will try to show us about mistakes, their consequences and how to solve them in a correct and responsable way. This is the real way to forgiveness and forgiveness is peace with ourselves and the others.

And finally, Shinji will find love and redemption in his heart because he could get some of peace for assuming their faults and solving them. Maybe Anno could suggest it in last scene of the film. In another personal opinion, in Rebuild I think Anno will try to teach us more about hope in general. Hope for all characters, no matter how terrible could be those personal situations. And some lessons about self-support. Shinji despite the fact that his horrible fate, finally I'm sure he could understand that the only way for continuing is love. But love since its great sense, not just romantic. All fans just said that he must hate his father forever but... what about if Shinji really forgives him, leaves him and continues with his own life without any resentments with Gendo in the last scene of the film? I know, It sounds impossible, that's true and maybe ridiculous or stupid... but would not this be a great liberation for Shinji? Well, after all Rei II tried to join him and Gendo because she wanted to see them happy together but finally she died. I think forgiveness to Gendo could be a kind of tribute to the memory of Rei II and a kind of "catharsis" for him.

Personally, I just can't see shipping in next film (well, I think so). I most believe in personal growth of principal characters:

-Shinji stronger, more mature and with a better self-esteem and peace in his heart.
-Misato being reconciled with Shinji and fine in some way. (I really don't want she dies in 4.0)
-Rei living for her own, nor for Gendo, nor for Shinji, just for herself . Having more personality and autonomy.
-Asuka less bitter, happy and in peace with Shinji. Asuka is my favourite character so, I'll settle if I see her at final just healthy and happy. It could be the best final for me.

[Ray]

I imagine in 4.0 Shinji comes within inches of killing Gendo, but relents at the last second. Shinji does it for all the right reasons but something in the plot makes letting Gendo live a worse punishment than death. That's how I would write it anyway.

Death is too good an ending for Gendo, after what he tricked Shinji into doing. I'm not ashamed to say he's the most loathsome Character I've ever come across.

But how do you "move forward" after unwittingly committing genocide? That's a weight he's going to have to carry for the rest of his life, assuming he does get at least a somewhat happy ending in 4.0.

[ElMariachi]

@ LightDragonman : You really love your MGS comparison, do you!
I don't think that it'll play the route of "Asuka (and maybe Misato) got the right idea for Shinji, but has forgotten to do it in a way that isn't harsh and ultimately counterproductive, while Rei Q will be the key to reach out to him and make him grow because she's the only one who understands him", and that's for three reasons :

1/ They are stranded in the middle of a sterile desert of core-material, right at the doors to neo-NRV HQ and with very limited supplies, Asuka simply doesn't have the time to go gentle and try to reach out to him, they have to move ASAP or they're all gonna to die. I reserves my judgment on if she can reach out to him for a moment when they'll be in a safer position and less pressed by time(when they are making camp for the night is enough)

2/ Having only Rei to manage to reach out to him can have the risk of Shinji retreating even more in his own little bubble : after all if Rei is the only one able to understand him, why would he bother with the rest of the world who got to live their own lives and all ended making him suffer? To understand how wrong it would be, replace "Shinji" by "Gendo" and "Rei" by "Yui"... see the problem?
Besides Asuka has been very clear on the matter : they are now in a new world, with new rules, and he'll have to adapt to it, because the world won't adapt for him. And relying on Rei, who's also from the "old world"(that's it Rei II, Rei Q doesn't even know what "living in a world" means) would be akin to retreat into his bubble.
If he wants to adapt to this world and be accepted(loved) in it, Shinji needs to interact and learn with people who lived in this world for the past 14 years, he needs to learn from Asuka, Misato, Sakura... that was probably what Mari means when she urged to "get to know the world a little".

3/ The more important point : Rei Q actually doesn't understand Shinji, she doesn't have any memories of him, hell she doesn't even know him. Besides she has her hands already full by trying to determine who she is before helping anyone else.
Something I could see her doing is being a sort of confident to Shinji, because she'll not judge him, or maybe helping her to find and assert her identity will help him regain some self-esteem and happiness(to at last manage to help someone without it blowing in his face in an apocalyptic fashion), but someone who doesn't even know what "liking something" means, lived her life under a lie that she was Rei Ayanami and who got a grand total of one initiative in her whole life, albeit a very important one(bailing out of Mark.09) simply can't be a life counselor.
Leave that to Sakura, who know about this new world and seems to have the actual training for counseling, for once that there is someone close to a therapist in Evangelion!

I do see the callbacks to Rei II in Rei Q's character arc in 3.0, but I just sees it as a subtle hint that she's not an emotionless automaton life we were led to believe at first, and that she'll have her own character grow in FINAL, but not that she'll serves as Rei II's replacement for Shinji, first because that would go against his claims that there only one Rei for him, and also because, well, what would be the point of Rei II at all? Why repeat in the two last movies the exact same character arc than during the first two movies, and even with a character that has the exact same face! That would mean that Rei Q really is a replacement for Rei II!
That's why I think that even though Rei Q will have character development and open herself more(not that it'll be difficult compared to how she acted until now...) and that she can be of help to Shinji(he can help her in her quest of identity, with will help him into realizing that he can do good), her character arc will take another direction than Rei II's, maybe live for herself under a new name signifying how she's her own person.

---

I agree with the idea that Shinji only needs his own love. And love that he needs to find it's not outside. It's just inside him.

Not really, he does need love from outside too, or he'll become a self-serving asshole like Gendo(and I'm sure that he hates himself), but he needs to come to peace with himself before being able to have love from outside, or he'll ends up thinking that said source of love is the only thing that matters in the world, and again ends up like Gendo.

---

I think Anno wanted to move away from the shipping (especially because that's a big part of the fanbase and he kinda hates his otaku fans), but I'm sure 4.0 is gonna end with Shinji in love with his life, kinda like in EoE where he accepts himself. Maybe.

That's a false rumor, Anno himself said that he doesn't hate his otaku fanbase, and never wanted to tell them that they should abandon their way of life for life in society, since himself doesn't find himself in this society, but to tell them to don't stay closed in their bubble and reject everything that comes from outside it just because it's different, in short he wants to incite them to experiment in life.

---

Personally, I just can't see shipping in next film (well, I think so). I most believe in personal growth of principal characters:

-Shinji stronger, more mature and with a better self-esteem and peace in his heart.
-Misato being reconciled with Shinji and fine in some way. (I really don't want she dies in 4.0)
-Rei living for her own, nor for Gendo, nor for Shinji, just for herself . Having more personality and autonomy.
-Asuka less bitter, happy and in peace with Shinji. Asuka is my favourite character so, I'll settle if I see her at final just healthy and happy. It could be the best final for me.

I completely agree with you, just having these four points accomplished would be a very good and satisfying ending.
I just don't completely exclude shipping yet, if only because Anno might want to surprise us by showing that mundane things like romantic love still exists in the post-3I world, and to see more of Mari's trolling/teasing Shinji and Asuka!

[Pen-Pen02]

Yeah, that's I want to say @ ElMariachi. Shinji needs to feel love for himself and be in peace with him. But, for getting this, he has to live with other people and know them better and specially, receive some kind of help. Sometimes, you only can love that you know and he has to know other people for doing this. Maybe, he couldn't do friends or feel some kind of love for all of them during this process, but he could feel empathy about their ideals (Wille's people, for example) or just for the fact that all of them are humans like him, with dreams, goals and mistakes.

Shinji has to know that he's not the only one who is suffering or in sadness. There are a lot of people who is trying to deal with their own problems. And yeah, it's true that he could be responsible of all those people problems in this new world, but he has to deal with it and go on. And in this situation, he could mature and feel some love for himself. Feeling bad for himself all the time or staying him in his own bubble is not the way. But he has to know people's intentions and learn to be empathic with them. In this case, communication is very important without doubt. If Shinji can't or doesn't want do it,despite the fact some people could want to help him, he only could be in his own sadness and reject all the opportunities for feeling good. And that's the reason what I believe he has to be a better inner attitude for receive some of love or, at least, some kind of help.

On the other hand, in NGE and EoE, I think Shinji could solve all his personal arcs (in some way) with all the characters, but less with his father and Asuka and I hope in Rebuild could do it finally...

And about shipping: I don't believe it happens in that "romantic" sense. Maybe, that arc between Rei and Shinji could be completed finally and that's all. No more else. But something happening with Asuka and Shinji... I really can't see it :( ... But, like some people said "hope is the last to die", I think 4.0 is just the only chance to join both of them and "Mari-Anno" could do it.

Now I think better, I believe Mari was only created to be an "troll" for LAS. It just could be her "hidden mysterious purpose" in all the Rebuild... this and to pilot madly an EVA while she's singing and drinking some of tea, anyway. Well, Mari pushing to Asuka literally to Shinji's arms could be a funny thing I'd like to see in the show...