Depth of Shinji and Rei's relationship

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Postby NemZ » Sat Aug 30, 2008 2:56 pm

Zuggy wrote:Thing is, no matter how much work someone put's into Rei's flat it's still going to be an uncomfortable place to live.


...which Shinji would probably point out eventually, leading them to move somewhere less 'urban wasteland' themed but still rather cozy. Neither of them strike me as people who need much living space, even by Japanese standards.

AuraTwilight wrote:I can see them having a sort of platonic romance.


the faptastic Shinji + casually nude Rei? No way it stays innocently platonic for more than a week.
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Postby Mr. Tines » Sat Aug 30, 2008 3:40 pm

R/S is stymied by the fact that Rei has to return to being Lilith at some point when the inevitable wave of 3I crashes down on the proceedings.

Before that, it starts to play like the time honoured trope of true love interrupted by the brash outsider.

Of course in a more real-world setting the reaction would be much like "An imouto/onii-chan half-related by blood, whom I've not been brought up with? Why hello there, genetic sexual attraction!"


Anonymous_Evafan wrote:when Shinji said I want to see them again


Of course the order in which people appear in the Omedetou! finale is rather different.
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Postby Anonymous_Evafan » Sat Aug 30, 2008 3:43 pm

Mr. Tines wrote:Of course the order in which people appear in the Omedetou! finale is rather different.

Asuka is still before Rei.
Shinji:
Maybe it's okay for me to be here!
That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less!
I'm me.
I want to be me!
I want to be here!
And it's okay for me to be here!

Misato:
Congratulations!

Asuka:
Congratulations!

Rei:
Congratulations!
Oh, but God forbid any of these theories have any validity! After all, we are just brainwashing innocent people with Reichu's fanclub propaganda!--Trigger's Elysium sarcasm for the masses!

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Postby NemZ » Sat Aug 30, 2008 6:00 pm

Mr. Tines wrote:R/S is stymied by the fact that Rei has to return to being Lilith at some point when the inevitable wave of 3I crashes down on the proceedings.


Does she? I think it's arguable that even in the movie this doesn't happen... Rei doesn't become Lilith so much as she takes up Lilith's mantle and remains herself. My point being that Rei does not lose her personality in the process to become some 'true self'.

Furthermore, in a diversion where Shinji and Rei have found some measure of comfort with each other it is quite unlikely that Shinji would go with the "they can all just die" plan again. 3I may still happen, but it will be in a different form than Seele, Gendo, or the angels expected.
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Postby Anonymous_Evafan » Sat Aug 30, 2008 6:18 pm

NemZ wrote:Does she? I think it's arguable that even in the movie this doesn't happen... Rei doesn't become Lilith so much as she takes up Lilith's mantle and remains herself. My point being that Rei does not lose her personality in the process to become some 'true self'.

Of corse she wouldn't lose who she was in the process. Rei is a big part of who Lilith is at that point but it doesn't change the fact that she is still Lilith. Someone 4 billion years Shinji's elder and the mother of the whole species to boot.

Furthermore, in a diversion where Shinji and Rei have found some measure of comfort with each other it is quite unlikely that Shinji would go with the "they can all just die" plan again.

But it didn't happen which is Tines and my point.
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Postby Reichu » Sat Aug 30, 2008 6:41 pm

:walks in for the heck of it:

NemZ wrote:Rei doesn't become Lilith so much as she takes up Lilith's mantle and remains herself.

GNR's creepy, vacant, bug-eyed gape and the frenetic giggling of her hoards of death-dealing specters are indeed much in keeping with everything we knew about Rei up to that point.

Also, serious relationships with ancient alien progenitor goddesses forced into color-swapped clones of your "dead" mom created on account of your dad's pathological obsessiveness who carry out a miserable and suicidal existence within said clone bodies FTW. These threads are my favorite.
What if... Kaworu bonded with Misato instead of Shinji, and the two of them were siblings?
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Postby NemZ » Sat Aug 30, 2008 7:00 pm

Anonymous_Evafan wrote:But it didn't happen which is Tines and my point.


Of course it didn't happen. That was a purely hypothetical supposition, and you must either clearly know it was meant as such yet be intentionally acting stupid to prove yet another argument... or else not be acting.

Of corse she wouldn't lose who she was in the process. Rei is a big part of who Lilith is at that point but it doesn't change the fact that she is still Lilith. Someone 4 billion years Shinji's elder and the mother of the whole species to boot.


I don't think it was ever really cut-and-dry how much of Rei would survive the process... but, considering that even as a social pariah Rei likely lived more in her short time then Lilith did in that 4 billion years I suppose it makes sense for her to still be fairly recognizable.

Reichu wrote:GNR's creepy, vacant, bug-eyed gape and the frenetic giggling of her hoards of death-dealing specters are indeed much in keeping with everything we knew about Rei up to that point.


Indeed, they act much like the clones did when they dissolved. Perhaps offering someone a merciful death is something worth being celebrating?

And she fixed the eyes as soon as she noticed it was creeping Shinji out.

Also, serious relationships with ancient alien progenitor goddesses forced into color-swapped clones of your "dead" mom created on account of your dad's pathological obsessiveness who carry out a miserable and suicidal existence within said clone bodies FTW. These threads are my favorite.


Godesses need love too.
Clone status as 'complete' is questionable.
Fuyutsuki did it, not Gendo.
Suicidal because nobody loves her?
Last edited by NemZ on Sat Aug 30, 2008 7:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Reichu » Sat Aug 30, 2008 7:15 pm

You didn't attribute my needlessly sarcastic quotes, NemZ.

Indeed, they act much like the clones did when they dissolved. Perhaps offering someone a merciful death is something worth being celebrating?

Most people probably don't use creepy giggling to celebrate anything, unless they're evil possessed dolls or something.

Hmm. Dolls...

And she fixed the eyes as soon as she noticed it was creeping Shinji out.

Oh no she dinnin! (Some images here.)

Fuyutsuki did it, not Gendo.

Not this literalistic insanity again. The fundies are bad enough.

Suicidal because nobody loves her?

Harder, try harder......
What if... Kaworu bonded with Misato instead of Shinji, and the two of them were siblings?
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Postby Anonymous_Evafan » Sat Aug 30, 2008 7:20 pm

NemZ wrote:you must either clearly know it was meant as such yet be intentionally acting stupid to prove yet another argument... or else not be acting.

I know this forum is for serious discussion about what did happen, not speculation about what you think could have happened under different circumstances. This type of thread belongs in chit chat or fandom area.
Oh, but God forbid any of these theories have any validity! After all, we are just brainwashing innocent people with Reichu's fanclub propaganda!--Trigger's Elysium sarcasm for the masses!

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Postby NemZ » Sat Aug 30, 2008 8:25 pm

Reichu wrote:You didn't attribute my needlessly sarcastic quotes, NemZ.


Yeah, I fixed that. Certainly wouldn't want to let AEF take credit for them, right? ^_^

Most people probably don't use creepy giggling to celebrate anything, unless they're evil possessed dolls or something.

Hmm. Dolls...


Quite so, but at least they seem to be happy about their jobs. And why shouldn't they be? It's what Gendo-papa, Keel-san, and Shinji-kun all want... sorta.

Oh no she dinnin!


Perhaps we're talking about something different. I meant the whole 'black pits of damnation' look she had at first, then blinked away to return to her normal level of red-eyed creepiness, just supersized.

Not this literalistic insanity again. The fundies are bad enough.


It's not just that one line, but a general feeling I get. Besides, which of the two commanders actually has the technical expertise to manipulate souls?

And please don't relate me to bible thumpers. Creationists make my head a'splode. :sermon: :explode:

Harder, try harder......


Needs more wank? Hmm...

Lilith was a Buddhist, seeking to move on to a state of unattached non-being, and feared that the longer she remained in corporeal form the less likely achieving nirvana might become. ...you know, cause that Shinji kid was growing on her. Hell, eventually she might not even want to die, maybe even fear it if she let that sort of thing get out of hand.

You're quite right, these treads are a lot of fun. :thumbsup:

Anonymous_Evafan wrote:I know this forum is for serious discussion about what did happen, not speculation about what you think could have happened under different circumstances. This type of thread belongs in chit chat or fandom area.


I didn't start that, but I deliberately worded the comment as such so as not to confuse anyone paying attention.

Might I suggest that if it bothers you so much that people might discuss fictional diversions from this fictional story, you could always just split it out using your admin/mod powers?

Oh.

Gee, this is awkward...
Rest In Peace ~ 1978 - 2017
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Postby Anonymous_Evafan » Sat Aug 30, 2008 8:38 pm

NemZ wrote:It's not just that one line, but a general feeling I get. Besides, which of the two commanders actually has the technical expertise to manipulate souls?

Rei 1:
No, you are a person whose false soul was
created by the human named Gendo Ikari.

Forgot that did you?
Oh, but God forbid any of these theories have any validity! After all, we are just brainwashing innocent people with Reichu's fanclub propaganda!--Trigger's Elysium sarcasm for the masses!

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Postby Reichu » Sat Aug 30, 2008 8:50 pm

NemZ wrote:Perhaps we're talking about something different.

"Bug-eyed" meaning "her eyes bug out".

Besides, which of the two commanders actually has the technical expertise to manipulate souls?

I really, really doubt Gehirn would have been able to accomplish very much if Fuyutsuki was the only MPBist in the organization.......

And Gendo Ikari was chief of Gehirn. "Chief" meaning he was the guy in charge of things, including all of those little nerds with degrees in weird shit like MPB.
What if... Kaworu bonded with Misato instead of Shinji, and the two of them were siblings?
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Postby NemZ » Sat Aug 30, 2008 9:07 pm

Anonymous_Evafan wrote:
Rei 1:
No, you are a person whose false soul was
created by the human named Gendo Ikari.

Forgot that did you?


Nope. I just also recall Rei 2 and Rei 3 disagreeing.

Besides, the only manner in which you could argue he 'created' her soul is in shaping her personality. We know he got the thing pre-built.

Reichu wrote:"Bug-eyed" meaning "her eyes bug out".


Ah, I hadn't noticed. Still haven't, really... likely just a trick of perspective.

I really, really doubt Gehirn would have been able to accomplish very much if Fuyutsuki was the only MPBist in the organization.......

And Gendo Ikari was chief of Gehirn. "Chief" meaning he was the guy in charge of things, including all of those little nerds with degrees in weird shit like MPB.


Possible, but if I was going to be buggering around with my wife's remains I think I'd go to the guy most knowledgeable on the subject. I don't really have any good evidence beyond the 'literal' quote to offer though. As I said, it's just a gut feeling.
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Postby Reichu » Sat Aug 30, 2008 9:46 pm

NemZ wrote:Ah, I hadn't noticed. Still haven't, really... likely just a trick of perspective.

No, her eyes seriously do "bug out". Perspective does not give you these Eva-like eyes that have extra amounts of exposed sclera regardless of what POV the eyes are examined from.

Look harder.

As I said, it's just a gut feeling.

And we know how reliable those are.
What if... Kaworu bonded with Misato instead of Shinji, and the two of them were siblings?
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Postby Zuggy » Sun Aug 31, 2008 12:46 am

NemZ wrote:...which Shinji would probably point out eventually, leading them to move somewhere less 'urban wasteland' themed but still rather cozy.

I think you're being silly...

It's nice to think that Rei could settle down with someone and come out of her shell, but there seems something fundamentally wrong with that idea, something that conflicts with my basic understanding of Rei as a person - though it's an emotional right-hemisphere thing and not a logical thing, and my capabilities in English aren't good enough to express what I mean - so I'll shut up. :lurk:

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Postby Mr. Tines » Sun Aug 31, 2008 1:05 am

NemZ wrote:Does she? I think it's arguable that even in the movie this doesn't happen... Rei doesn't become Lilith so much as she takes up Lilith's mantle and remains herself.

[code:1]Rei: But, there's someone else who is the true you.

Rei: You don't know her.

Rei: Because you don't want to see that, you are trying to run away.

Because of fear.

Rei: Because she might not have a human shape.
Because the present me might disappear.[/code:1]

Rei as we know her is a mask or less than a mask. Never mind the logistical issues after she returns to her true body.
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Postby NemZ » Sun Aug 31, 2008 1:08 am

Zuggy wrote:It's nice to think that Rei could settle down with someone and come out of her shell, but there seems something fundamentally wrong with that idea, something that conflicts with my basic understanding of Rei as a person


Come out of her shell... because of Shinji? Maybe a little bit, but I think it's more likely she'd invite him into her closed-off, subtle world instead. They'd end up essentially as hermits living together either in some isolated wilderness or just anonymously forgettable in a major city. Maybe even over time develop something along the lines of "twin speak" due to accumulation of shared experience and being isolated from larger society.
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Postby Zuggy » Sun Aug 31, 2008 1:48 am

NemZ wrote:Come out of her shell... because of Shinji? Maybe a little bit, but I think it's more likely she'd invite him into her closed-off, subtle world instead.

Was thinking along the lines of how Rei acts around Gendo in one of the earlier episodes.

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Postby NemZ » Sun Aug 31, 2008 2:38 am

Zuggy wrote:Was thinking along the lines of how Rei acts around Gendo in one of the earlier episodes.


Oh, I didn't mean to imply that they'd be closed off from each other. Instead they would lock on desperately to this one interpersonal attachment to the exclusion of everything and everyone else, enabling ever more antisocial behaviors in each other.
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Postby Rhyno » Sun Aug 31, 2008 3:11 am

At the risk of repeating myself in a different thread, I think the interpretation of the characters says many things about those with those interpretations. As I have said, I certainly see a deep relationship between Rei and Shinji. I just don't see the sexual relationship others seem to see.


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