Depth of Shinji and Rei's relationship

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Depth of Shinji and Rei's relationship

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Postby Gamer_2k4 » Thu Aug 28, 2008 3:40 pm

LoganPayne wrote:Anyone who believes R/S usually doesn't have a grasp of the characters.

I saw this in SSD's signature and decided that if it was sig-worthy, it was also discussion-worthy. So let's get a grasp of the characters. I admit that Shinji x Asuka was a favorite pairing of mine not too long ago, as it's one of the few that's actually alluded to in the show and movie. It seems to be a fairly common one (bordering on "obvious") among a lot of other people as well. For that reason, I was surprised to find out that I didn't believe such a pairing was logical, or even supported by canon. In other words, I believed in it until I got a grasp of the characters.

But does the same hold true for Rei and Shinji? Clearly we have a sort of Oedipus complex going on, if you buy the "Rei being a clone of Yui means that Shinji x Rei == Shinji x Yui" argument, but it really doesn't seem like that to me. Rei's actions remind Shinji of a mother, but he doesn't feel like she's HIS mother. To Shinji, Rei is just another teenager, albeit a quiet, mysterious one. This is supported by the couple of incidents where Shinji is caught looking at Rei, and he hastily denies it before getting all contemplative. So Rei x Shinji is possible from Shinji's end.

But Rei? How does she feel about Shinji? I suppose you could chalk up most of her actions to her being a clone of Yui: Slapping Shinji for badmouthing Gendo, sitting by Shinji's bed when he's in the hospital, protecting Shinji against Ramiel and other Angels, and so on. But is there more? I think Ep. 25 dealt with this, though I've only seen it twice, and don't really remember it all that well.

However, Shinji seemed to be more comfortable around and seemed to click better with Rei than he did with Asuka. Yes, I KNOW this is probably because Rei is like Yui. Stop trying to convince me. But since Shinji x Asuka is considered feasible, why not Shinji x Rei? Is there anything in the show or movie that would indicate that such a pairing isn't likely or possible?
Last edited by Gamer_2k4 on Fri Aug 29, 2008 1:55 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Postby NemZ » Thu Aug 28, 2008 6:11 pm

The Oedipus angle likely has no bearing, since up until the very end they both either don't know or don't care.. Shinji doesn't know who she's a clone of until he finally sees his mom at the end of EOE. If Rei knows of her relationship with Shinji she never directly lets on, and if so it still likely doesn't bother her.

Shinji definately feels something towards Rei and vice versa. Just what that soemthing is is quite up to the audience.
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Re: Depth of Shinji and Rei's relationship

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Postby Anonymous_Evafan » Thu Aug 28, 2008 8:27 pm

Gamer_2k4 wrote:Is there anything in the show or movie that would indicate that such a pairing isn't likely or possible?

Shinji:
I... I'm scared of both Misato and Ayanami...

But I'll disreguard that one since it doesn't hold true at the end. The killer is:
Shinji:
I want to help you in some way... and to be with you forever.

Which was directed to Asuka and he reaffirmed later by saying:
Shinji:
Still... I want to meet them again, because I believe my feelings at that time were real.

If things didn't happen the way the did sure it could have happened, but they did so it isn't.
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Re: Depth of Shinji and Rei's relationship

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Postby NemZ » Thu Aug 28, 2008 9:50 pm

True, by the time the movie rolls around things are so fucked that nobody in the series has the slightest chance to be happy. Any sincere pairing in NGE requires either a diversion fairly early or plenty of time after 3I to sort out issues.
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Postby swamp147 » Thu Aug 28, 2008 10:55 pm

By the final scene of EoE, does Shinji know that Rei is a clone of Yui? If so, when does he find out?

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Postby Iron Rooster » Thu Aug 28, 2008 10:58 pm

^
Well, he sees his mom in Unit 01 before it departs for good. So if he doesn't realize then that his mommy looks like that girl he groped, he is probably isn't going to realize since he just spent half the movie with GNR.
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Postby AuraTwilight » Fri Aug 29, 2008 1:22 am

Rei has much better chemistry with Shinji than Asuka by LEAGUES.

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Postby Anonymous_Evafan » Fri Aug 29, 2008 1:33 am

She did before she turned into the freakgirl with the 4 billion year old alien soul. That kinda killed it.
Oh, but God forbid any of these theories have any validity! After all, we are just brainwashing innocent people with Reichu's fanclub propaganda!--Trigger's Elysium sarcasm for the masses!

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Postby Gamer_2k4 » Fri Aug 29, 2008 1:40 am

Anonymous_Evafan wrote:She did before she turned into the freakgirl with the 4 billion year old alien soul. That kinda killed it.

I'm pretty sure that any pairing of Shinji and Rei would have to take place prior to Third Impact, simply because after 3I everything's screwed up and all bets are off. Besides, pairings aren't meant to take place in the post-3I world anyway. (You know, because of the little thing where there's NO PEOPLE.)

And this is probably off topic, but if Shinji x Asuka only works after 3I, then what's the point? Really, why does it matter that they'd be perfect for each other then? They're the only two people in the world! I mean, come on, if it takes a freaking apocalypse for two people to realize that they love each other, then it probably wasn't meant to be, you know?
Last edited by Gamer_2k4 on Fri Aug 29, 2008 1:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Anonymous_Evafan » Fri Aug 29, 2008 1:49 am

For now. The only thing keeping other people from returning is their will to live. Once they find it they will return which may or may not be a good thing.
Oh, but God forbid any of these theories have any validity! After all, we are just brainwashing innocent people with Reichu's fanclub propaganda!--Trigger's Elysium sarcasm for the masses!

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Postby Gamer_2k4 » Fri Aug 29, 2008 1:52 am

But then everything is hypothetical and you're not justified in saying ANYTHING about peoples' relationships, assuming that their changes are as drastic as Shinji's. And if they only have minor mental/social changes, then it's pretty much the same as before, right?

It boils down to either "It's the same" or "I don't know," and neither stance is exactly solid debating ground.
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Postby Anonymous_Evafan » Fri Aug 29, 2008 1:55 am

I'd hope they'd have a better outlook on life since they want to be there. But that is the point, you never know. That's the beauty and nightmare of the whole thing.
Oh, but God forbid any of these theories have any validity! After all, we are just brainwashing innocent people with Reichu's fanclub propaganda!--Trigger's Elysium sarcasm for the masses!

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Postby Evangelion__x » Fri Aug 29, 2008 2:17 am

YES, finally a thread like this lol.

I'm a huge fan of S/R. It would definitely work better than S/A, hands down. And I'm still not entirely convinced it's incest. It's complicated.

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Postby Gamer_2k4 » Fri Aug 29, 2008 10:39 am

But back on topic. Would Rei and Shinji, if left to their own devices, make a good couple? Do their personalities allow for this? Is there anything in the show that strongly (or even subtly) alludes to this as a possibility? Does Rei like Shinji like that? Does Shinji like Rei like that? And if they don't now, could it happen in the future (disregarding 3I which, as we know, kind of breaks everything)?
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Postby AuraTwilight » Fri Aug 29, 2008 2:00 pm

I'm pretty sure that any pairing of Shinji and Rei would have to take place prior to Third Impact, simply because after 3I everything's screwed up and all bets are off. Besides, pairings aren't meant to take place in the post-3I world anyway. (You know, because of the little thing where there's NO PEOPLE.)

And this is probably off topic, but if Shinji x Asuka only works after 3I, then what's the point? Really, why does it matter that they'd be perfect for each other then? They're the only two people in the world! I mean, come on, if it takes a freaking apocalypse for two people to realize that they love each other, then it probably wasn't meant to be, you know?


EoE highly implies that most of, if not everyone, is coming back, and society will be restored in relatively short terms, possibly within Shinji's lifetime.

Yui's DNA was only used to make Rei looks like her(I suppose 5% of Yui's DNA). To count as Incest she would have to have Half of Yui's DNA, makeing Rei, Shinji's sister. More than half would make her his Aunt. as it is, Rei is a Distant Cousin of Shinji(Distant Cousins are NOT incest).


DNA doesn't work that way. Besides, Rei is a clone of Yui. You know, the ENTIRE GENOME.

Also, on her angel half, from a theological stand point. Angels are sacred beings, that are holy, and if one were to have sexual intercourse with one, it would count as rape.(if a nun seduces you, and you do her, you raped her in god's eyes)


As far as her genetics, she has no "Angel half"; She might be made of PWM, but her genetics are Yui's. The only really Angelic aspect is her soul, and even then, it doesn't matter, since Angels are humans are generally the same damn thing.

What you CAN flag the Rei X Shinji relationship as, is Beastieality(shes part another species).


No, she's not. Even if she was part of another species, Bestiality technically refers to sex with nonsentient animals.

But back on topic. Would Rei and Shinji, if left to their own devices, make a good couple? Do their personalities allow for this? Is there anything in the show that strongly (or even subtly) alludes to this as a possibility? Does Rei like Shinji like that? Does Shinji like Rei like that? And if they don't now, could it happen in the future (disregarding 3I which, as we know, kind of breaks everything)?


Up until episode 23, those two were on their way to becoming soulmates, romantic or otherwise. I felt that whatever bond they were forming was transcending any sense of a normal relationship to a true spiritual connection. Sure, Shinji was horrified when he found out her true nature, but EoE proves that he still loved Kaworu despite knowing HIS Angelic nature. I'm sure it was mostly just initial shock, and once he takes the time to realize it's still Rei either way, he'd grow to accept her again.

As for Rei? Well, she was going to freaking CHANGE THE WORLD to make Shinji happy. She took the phrase "I'll give you the world" and actually did it.

Yes, The amount of Yui's DNA is to be taken in count, but as I said, it does not Merrit Incest. YES Rei is a Clone,but shes a hybrid, making her part another species other than human. maybe its me just fanwanking that Rei is more angel than Yui clone, but a fuck it, i like RxS over SxA even if its incest, rape, beastieality, Xenophilia, etc.


It's just incest. Lilith is the mother of all mankind, and NERV even calls her a human.

I think Rei can be a good couple for Shinji, I suppose she could be uber loyal to him as she was to gendo, maybe more. Maybe she'd get some initiiative, to be better for him, shed study other human girils, search the web, etc. She'd be the Otaku's dream.


And now you crossed the line and made me hate you for calling her an Otaku's dream. Thanks a lot.

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Postby Eric Blair » Fri Aug 29, 2008 3:06 pm

AuraTwilight wrote:And now you crossed the line and made me hate you for calling her an Otaku's dream. Thanks a lot.


That's because Rei IS an Otaku's dream; quiet, submissive, non confrontational... aside from the usual white, bland and pasty complexion, no sense of self and inability to explain/grasp feelings, she is everything every boy who watches anime dreams of finding if/when going to Japan.

Back on topic, I have to agree with what has been said, while Shinji might have felt something towards Rei, it's never a sexual attraction, maybe something comparable to filial love, maybe some sort of deep rooted resonance/ memory response towards Rei seeing as how she is somewhat identical to Yui.

For a Rei/Shinji relationship to prosper, you have to circumvent 2 very pivotal things in the story flow, however...

1. Shinji and Asuka cannot be rooming together because that is where most of the sexual attraction between them both stems from, and

2. Rei 2 cannot die, because as Sadamoto realized, you get stuck with Rei 3 and the next step for Rei 3 is Third Impact, which will eventually lead to Shinji and Asuka alone on the beach and Kimigabuchi doing Retake.
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Postby Gamer_2k4 » Fri Aug 29, 2008 4:36 pm

Eric Blair wrote:1. Shinji and Asuka cannot be rooming together because that is where most of the sexual attraction between them both stems from

Sexual attraction? Really? Disregarding the fact that that's not even a necessary component for a healthy relationship, I don't think I've seen any evidence of your claim (well, except for the time when Asuka accidentally slept two inches away from Shinji, which shouldn't really count, as Shinji's reaction then could pretty much be expected).

For the most part, any interaction between Shinji and Asuka, even in their house, is completely "I have to put up with this person, I guess." Remember the time in Episode 9 where Asuka steps out of the shower and asks where Misato is? Shinji doesn't even look up when he replies. Remember in Episode 10 when Asuka quizzes Shinji about thermal expansion? He looks away and changes the subject. (Granted, a calm and even answer from Shinji would have helped my point more, but never mind that.)

In fact, I can't think of a single instance where Shinji or Asuka indicate that they have a sexual attraction for the other (the beginning of EoE doesn't count), or at least, a situation that was aided by their living together (if Rei had dropped down next to Shinji that night, he would have gone bug-eyed with her, too). You could even argue that since Shinji appears to be more attracted to Rei and they DON'T live together, that that relationship would be more likely.
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Postby chee » Fri Aug 29, 2008 4:40 pm

Gamer, have you seen the director's cut of ep. 22?

Kind of puts a wrench in your hypothesis thar.

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Postby IrkenEvangelion » Fri Aug 29, 2008 4:49 pm

Poor Asuka :asuka_sad: Shinji's a dick.
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Postby Eric Blair » Fri Aug 29, 2008 5:12 pm

Gamer_2k4 wrote:Sexual attraction?

Sexual attraction is the very basis of any relationship; Humans seek an acceptable mate to reproduce, thus their driving factor is sexual attraction. Don't believe me? you are the living proof of it; if your pops didn't like your mom that way, you wouldn't be here.

Gamer_2k4 wrote:any interaction between Shinji and Asuka

I thought this as supposed to be for a R/S POV, but I'll pick up for the sake of this... how about Shinji running after Asuka or the almost kiss initiated by Shinji on ep 10? or the whole Onsen thing? how about the kiss in 15? how about Shinji masturbating over Asuka's comatose body?

Gamer_2k4 wrote:In fact, I can't think of a single instance where Shinji or Asuka indicate that they have a sexual attraction for the other (the beginning of EoE doesn't count)

Why not?

Gamer_2k4 wrote: You could even argue that since Shinji appears to be more attracted to Rei and they DON'T live together, that that relationship would be more likely.

To paraphrase AnonymousEvaFan... read his quotes again.
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