Who's Asuka guarding against?

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition"). The final instalment made its debut in Japan on March 8, 2021.

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Who's Asuka guarding against?

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Postby Nuclear Lunchbox » Thu Apr 15, 2021 7:08 am

In the second act of the film, Rei III comes to visit Asuka. When she knocks on the door, Asuka immediately takes a tactical position against a shelf, armed with a handgun. Asuka asks who it is, Rei III answers, Asuka goes to unlock the door... but why would Asuka react like this in the first place? The village is somewhere she's familiar with, isn't it? Why would her first response to someone knocking on the door be that the person is an intruder whose presence warrants deadly force?

There's some dialogue later in the film in the beginning of the third act where crewmembers comment the armbands they're wearing were originally to differentiate former Nerv staff from those who supported Wille and those who did not. It makes me think, was there a point in the past where Village-3 wasn't a secure place? Might there be anything hinting at that?

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Postby ElMariachi » Thu Apr 15, 2021 8:19 am

That's something I wondered too since I saw it in her character reel video on Khara's Youtube account.
FWIW, I think that her "pistol" is actually a taser.
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Postby one-eyed » Thu Apr 15, 2021 9:00 am

Since Gendo set up Shinji's "rescue" in Q, I had been suspicious of a spy in Wille. Then Fuyu knew exactly when Rei Q had died and that Shinji boarded the Wunder, I got even more suspicious.

When Asuka was devoured by Eva 13 I started to think that, at some point, Gendo spied on her too (hence the justified paranoia), since she was useful to his plans.

The scene can also only be used to create expectations as we later saw Asuka was the backup plan for Impact. The espionage theory never progressed from simple conjecture and the omniscient information from Gendo and Fuyu was wavehanded. It all turned out to be a dramatic need.

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Postby Axx°N N. » Sun Apr 18, 2021 8:47 pm

I still don't get why Rei Q is treated as trustworthy when it seems like everyone knows Gendo manufactured her. Why wouldn't they assume she's designed to be malicious or gather intel?
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Postby Nuclear Lunchbox » Sun Apr 18, 2021 9:16 pm

She's not really treated as trustworthy, she's treated more like a directionless child-- which she is, really. As far as we know, Gendo isn't speaking directly into people's heads, so maybe that's a contrivance everyone in Village 3 assumes as well.

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Postby The18°angel » Mon Apr 19, 2021 12:49 pm

Well taking into account that inside the wunder the room where she and Mari live seems to be full of explosives according to the spoilers and that after what Shinji did they added more explosives it makes me think that Asuka doesn't really consider the Lilims as allies, I think that considers them more as the enemy of my enemy is my friend until our enemy no longer exists then we will become enemies

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Postby ElMariachi » Mon Apr 19, 2021 2:16 pm

View Original PostThe18°angel wrote:Well taking into account that inside the wunder the room where she and Mari live seems to be full of explosives according to the spoilers and that after what Shinji did they added more explosives it makes me think that Asuka doesn't really consider the Lilims as allies, I think that considers them more as the enemy of my enemy is my friend until our enemy no longer exists then we will become enemies

Woah woah woah, what?! Where did you saw that?!
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Postby The18°angel » Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:10 pm

It's not something that's shown, but Asuka comments on it when she enters the room with Mari. something about they now trust pilots less. It is a spoiler of the script but I don't know if it is true.

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Postby BernardoCairo » Mon Apr 19, 2021 4:13 pm

The18°angel wrote:it makes me think that Asuka doesn't really consider the Lilims as allies, I think that considers them more as the enemy of my enemy is my friend until our enemy no longer exists then we will become enemies

I'm not sure about that. I mean, Asuka's central line in the movie seems to revolve around the fact that she protects Village-3, even though she doesn't feel part of it. She also has a close friendship with Kensuke (who is undoubtedly Lilin). Aside from that, the movie seems to heavily imply that still is a human at heart, despite being "different". You know, I'm talking about that scene in which Asuka had a conversation with Mari about the nature of her hair.

Perhaps this scene tells more about Asuka than the enemies she’s fighting against. Shikinami has become a reserved person who is always looking to protect herself, even when it's not necessary. I mean, Ayanami literally knocked on the door. How could that be a real threat? I don't know, but Asuka is always prepared for it. That's what war does to a person, I guess. Of course, that's just speculation.
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Postby Nuclear Lunchbox » Mon Apr 19, 2021 8:16 pm

View Original PostThe18°angel wrote:It's not something that's shown, but Asuka comments on it when she enters the room with Mari. something about they now trust pilots less. It is a spoiler of the script but I don't know if it is true.

If I check the relevant dialogue…

937
More explosives? Guess they trust us less and less.

I don't remember the precise frame of the film, but the room Asuka and Mari live in is like a glass-walled detention chamber in open space. I believe Asuka is looking at the exterior when she makes this comment, since she enters in the next line of dialogue. The inside of the living space is filled with books Mari has piled up there, so the only room for explosives would be on the outside.

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Postby ElMariachi » Tue Apr 20, 2021 3:11 am

View Original PostNuclear Lunchbox wrote:If I check the relevant dialogue…

937
More explosives? Guess they trust us less and less.

I don't remember the precise frame of the film, but the room Asuka and Mari live in is like a glass-walled detention chamber in open space. I believe Asuka is looking at the exterior when she makes this comment, since she enters in the next line of dialogue. The inside of the living space is filled with books Mari has piled up there, so the only room for explosives would be on the outside.

Just... why?! :cringe:
Why would they do something like that? The pilot already have an explosive collar around their neck that could be detonated at any moment, why stuff their room with explosives, especially since we've seen in Q and Shin that Asuka (and Mari) can go around the Wunder and that she previously stayed in Village-3?!

The way you describe this room, it looks like it's the isolated room that Asuka was waling toward in the first trailers, that's the one? If so, I've seen in one of the pages of the theatrical booklet an image of Shinji strapped in a stretcher (similar to the one he was strapped in at the beginning of Q) and being transported to a similar room, I guess this is his cell. So that was what was awaited him if he had stayed in the Wunder in Q: kept completely isolated in a wide empty space surrounded by explosives after being told how he screwed up 14 years ago, that would had done wonders to his sanity!

So when Ritsuko said that the collar was a symbol of their mistrust on Shinji, she should had added that the mistrust was toward everyone of his kind, and that he hadn't seen the beginning of it yet. Godammit the more I learn about WILLE and the more unsympathetic they look. :facepalm:
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Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

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Postby Nuclear Lunchbox » Tue Apr 20, 2021 4:05 am

View Original PostElMariachi wrote:The way you describe this room, it looks like it's the isolated room that Asuka was waling toward in the first trailers, that's the one? If so, I've seen in one of the pages of the theatrical booklet an image of Shinji strapped in a stretcher (similar to the one he was strapped in at the beginning of Q) and being transported to a similar room, I guess this is his cell. So that was what was awaited him if he had stayed in the Wunder in Q: kept completely isolated in a wide empty space surrounded by explosives after being told how he screwed up 14 years ago, that would had done wonders to his sanity!

Found the scene in question, it's right here and I've linked to it at the 13 second mark. That's Asuka and Mari's room, and you can kind of see a bunk bed inside. I'm guessing the explosives are those little circular things scattered around that lip near the upper part of the frame, since Asuka's gaze seems to be drawn there.

They actually take him to an isolation room when he arrives, though they don't put the DSS choker on him until later when he volunteers to get in Unit 01 and fight Gendo. I can't remember if there are bombs around his room, although his door locks and doesn't let him enter or leave freely.

Also, don't you mean it would have done wunders for his sanity?

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Postby ElMariachi » Tue Apr 20, 2021 4:24 am

View Original PostNuclear Lunchbox wrote:Found the scene in question, it's right here and I've linked to it at the 13 second mark. That's Asuka and Mari's room, and you can kind of see a bunk bed inside. I'm guessing the explosives are those little circular things scattered around that lip near the upper part of the frame, since Asuka's gaze seems to be drawn there.

They actually take him to an isolation room when he arrives, though they don't put the DSS choker on him until later when he volunteers to get in Unit 01 and fight Gendo. I can't remember if there are bombs around his room, although his door locks and doesn't let him enter or leave freely.

Also, don't you mean it would have done wunders for his sanity?

Yep, that's the shot I was talking about, and I there's a shot of a similar room seen from above with Shinji in a stretcher in the theatrical booklet, see the top image here:
SPOILER: Show
Image


And if those round things are indeed the explosives, that means that Shinji's room too has them. I hope that at least they let something in his cell to pass the time. (had his stay been longer, Mari would had probably lend him some of her books).
It seems that Shinji deciding to go back to the Wunder to face his responsibilities is akin to a fugitive surrendering to the authorities to serve their time in jail. Which gives me the uncomfortable wonder of what would had happened to him and the other pilots had the "Neon Genesis" thing not happened? Would they had stayed their entire life in confinement? (or jail for Shinji) But then with the curse of Eva they are kind of ageless, so how much time would they had ended in there? :cringe:


View Original PostNuclear Lunchbox wrote:Also, don't you mean it would have done wunders for his sanity?

Oh you! :lol:
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Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
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Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

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Postby Derantor » Tue Apr 20, 2021 5:16 am

View Original PostThe18°angel wrote:Well taking into account that inside the wunder the room where she and Mari live seems to be full of explosives according to the spoilers and that after what Shinji did they added more explosives it makes me think that Asuka doesn't really consider the Lilims as allies, I think that considers them more as the enemy of my enemy is my friend until our enemy no longer exists then we will become enemies.

The most obvious answer to me is that Asuka is simply treated with disdain and mistrust, because she isn't Lilin, and Asuka in turn doesn't trust Lilin, because, well, a at this point 28 year history of exploitation and distrust. Sakura tries to shoot Shinji when he proposes to pilot 01 again and Misato is about to let him. Asuka says that it's even more surprising that she is let back onboard. So, something happens that made Misato distrust her a lot. After all, while Mari is kept on board, Asuka isn't. I think it's pretty obvious to see that, if even the people she works with have such a low opinion of her, survivors struggling with the hardships of Third Impact would be less than kind to Asuka, too. Her being afraid that they would actually harm her is not really surprising. Humans are pretty good at being fearful and seeking scapegoats, and Shinji isn't around.

Edit: And yeah, the obvious counterargument is that Shinji and Rei are treated fine by the villagers, so it might all just be in Asuka's head. Anyway, I think she's guarding against he villagers/Lilin in general.
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Postby Raikyu » Tue Apr 20, 2021 9:36 am

View Original PostDerantor wrote:
View Original PostThe18°angel#920709 wrote:Well taking into account that inside the wunder the room where she and Mari live seems to be full of explosives according to the spoilers and that after what Shinji did they added more explosives it makes me think that Asuka doesn't really consider the Lilims as allies, I think that considers them more as the enemy of my enemy is my friend until our enemy no longer exists then we will become enemies.

The most obvious answer to me is that Asuka is simply treated with disdain and mistrust, because she isn't Lilin, and Asuka in turn doesn't trust Lilin, because, well, a at this point 28 year history of exploitation and distrust. Sakura tries to shoot Shinji when he proposes to pilot 01 again and Misato is about to let him. Asuka says that it's even more surprising that she is let back onboard. So, something happens that made Misato distrust her a lot. After all, while Mari is kept on board, Asuka isn't. I think it's pretty obvious to see that, if even the people she works with have such a low opinion of her, survivors struggling with the hardships of Third Impact would be less than kind to Asuka, too. Her being afraid that they would actually harm her is not really surprising. Humans are pretty good at being fearful and seeking scapegoats, and Shinji isn't around.

Edit: And yeah, the obvious counterargument is that Shinji and Rei are treated fine by the villagers, so it might all just be in Asuka's head. Anyway, I think she's guarding against he villagers/Lilin in general.

I guess that due to her nature as an angel-hybrid, she isolated herself. She is ashamed of herself, and just like in the original NGE, you can't love others if you don't love yourself first. And those 14 years of isolation translated into her current behavior, which is even more aggressive and suspicious of everyone. In a certain way, it is a reimagination of her hedgehog's dilemma. Just like Soryu, Shikinami has her own reasons to push people away from her.

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Postby BernardoCairo » Tue Apr 20, 2021 9:42 am

Derantor wrote:After all, while Mari is kept on board, Asuka isn't.

Here's the thing, though. Asuka doesn't seem to live in Village-3.
Take a look at this piece of dialogue:
Ayanami: Do you live in this village and not do any work?
Asuka: Are you stupid? This is not the place where I live. It's the place I protect.

My bet is that Asuka lives with Mari in the AAA Wunder. This makes sense because the two must always be ready for battle. She probably stays in the village between supply runs. In other words, Wille lets her stay with Kensuke for a while, before returning to restock the village. In the movie, it seems like they planned to pick her up from the beginning. It had nothing to do with what was happening in Antarctica, because they didn't know about it until she had already boarded the ship. By the way, there is even a segment in which Kitakami says "recovery of Major Shikinami is done" (implying that this was a priority for them). No one was mistreating Asuka, but they were negatively surprised by Shinji's presence. Still, no one stopped him from staying on the ship.

As for Asuka thinking of Lilins as enemies, I'm not sure. I mean, she placed herself as their protector. Why would Shikinami protect people she is afraid of? They seem to be very nice people and even treat Shinji with respect (even though he is responsible for the N3I). I believe that her isolation is self-imposed. Apparently, she tries to deny her own humanity during the movie (although she is still human at heart). Perhaps that's why she doesn't feel comfortable around other people. Asuka feels like she doesn't "belong" to the village. This may be related to self-esteem issues (she doesn't see herself as "equal" to them).

As for Misato, I believe that she treats all pilots with a certain "mistrust". I mean, even Mari uses a DSS Choker. If you think about it, Asuka has angelic powers. It makes sense to keep an eye on her, I guess.
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Postby Konja7 » Tue Apr 20, 2021 9:53 am

View Original PostBernardoCairo wrote:My bet is that Asuka lives with Mari in the AAA Wunder. This makes sense because the two must always be ready for battle. She probably stays in the village between supply runs. In other words, Wille lets her stay with Kensuke for a while, before returning to restock the village. In the movie, it seems like they planned to pick her up from the beginning. It had nothing to do with what was happening in Antarctica, because they didn't know about it until she had already boarded the ship. By the way, there is even a segment in which Kitakami says "recovery of Major Shikinami is done" (implying that this was a priority for them). No one was mistreating Asuka, but they were negatively surprised by Shinji's presence. Still, no one stopped him from staying on the ship.

The thing is WILLE put explosives in Asuka and Mari room. They seem to even put more explosives in Shin (after the events of Q).

So, WILLE doesn't exactly mistreat them, but they clearly mistrust them.



View Original PostBernardoCairo wrote:As for Asuka thinking of Lilins as enemies, I'm not sure. I mean, she placed herself as their protector. Why would Shikinami protect people she is afraid of? They seem to be very nice people and even treat Shinji with respect (even though he is responsible for the N3I). I believe that her isolation is self-imposed. Apparently, she tries to deny her own humanity during the movie (although she is still human at heart). Perhaps that's why she doesn't feel comfortable around other people. Asuka feels like she doesn't "belong" to the village. This may be related to self-esteem issues (she doesn't see herself as "equal" to them).

I don't think people in Village-3 knows who is Shinji. At least, it is never implied that they know.

That said, I agree that Asuka's own feelings (and character) are the main reason why she doesn't feel comfortable in the Village.

The people in Village-3 are pretty nice. They accept Rei Q pretty easily.

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Postby Derantor » Tue Apr 20, 2021 10:57 am

View Original PostBernardoCairo wrote:My bet is that Asuka lives with Mari in the AAA Wunder. This makes sense because the two must always be ready for battle.

Would make sense, yeah, but then again, going by that logic, they wouldn't leave her behind on supply runs either (because they should expect an attack at any time), meaning she would have no time to for a relationship with Kensuke, and it doesn't explain why she's surprised she's being let back on board. She also says that "nothing changed in this room" when entering Mari's quarters, implying she was away for quite some time. "I don't live here" can also simply mean "this is not the place where I belong." She obviously does exist in the village; but she doesn't "live" there.

But of course, Asuka self-isolates, too, even in the ending scene. She has nothing in common with the people living there - even discounting her special nature. She was kept in a lab for the first fourteen years of her life, with possibly thousands of other clones, being one of two who weren't "disposed off", trained for a single purpose, and made very aware of her disposable nature. To her, those people in the village might as well have been the guards and caretakers in that institute, or the NERV technicians keeping her as a valuable specimen, or the WILLE guys who put a choker on her. All of them are nice too - all of them have families. All of them are human. She's different. She's feared and mistrusted, and they didn't let her forget that for 28 years. She doesn't need to eat - she doesn't grow. She can't even sleep. Yeah, I would self-isolate too.

Why would Shikinami protect people she is afraid of?

It's not like she has any choice in the matter. There's an Angel inside her. If she doesn't follow along, my bet is that she ends up right where she was at the end of Ha: kept as a valuable specimen in that lovely containment chamber. Remember, Misato came this close to blowing Shinji's head off when Nerv took him. Wouldn't be any different for Asuka, only that Misato isn't as attached to her as she is to Shinji. "A single life doesn't count any longer, right, Misato?" The times simply don't permit sentimentality.
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Postby Nuclear Lunchbox » Tue Apr 20, 2021 11:26 am

Here's the entire exchange between Asuka and Rei. Perhaps it'll shine some light on the situation.

601-627
Asuka: "I'm alone. I've always been alone, and I'll always be alone. That's how things are, Asuka." [Note: Asuka is talking to her doll.]

*knocking*

Asuka: "Who's there?!"

Rei Q: "Me."

Asuka: "Pilot zero, huh? I'll unlock the door."

Rei Q: "I heard Ikari was here."

Asuka: "He's not here. He's off running away."

Rei Q: "I see. I'll go look for him."

Asuka: "I'm gonna give you some advice. Eva pilots like you and me? We're just like the Eva: kept in check, not to surpass human limitations. Inefficient emotions are just another part of it. Our human cognitive behavior is built into us. All of you, the whole Ayanami series, you're just conditioned to like the Third Child. The way you're feeling right now was programmed into you by Nerv from the beginning."

Rei Q: "Yes. But I don't mind. I'm glad I do."

Asuka: "Yeah? Then knock yourself out. The object of your affections is out under the Nerv Branch II N109 ruins."

Rei Q: "Thank you."

Asuka: "If you're heading out to meet him, take these rations to him. He won't keep without it."

Rei Q: "Do you live in this village without working?"

Asuka: "Are you stupid? This isn't a place I live. It's a place I protect."
Last edited by Nuclear Lunchbox on Tue Apr 20, 2021 6:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby BernardoCairo » Tue Apr 20, 2021 12:20 pm

Derantor wrote:Would make sense, yeah, but then again, going by that logic, they wouldn't leave her behind on supply runs either (because they should expect an attack at any time), meaning she would have no time to for a relationship with Kensuke, and it doesn't explain why she's surprised she's being let back on board. She also says that "nothing changed in this room" when entering Mari's quarters, implying she was away for quite some time.

Well, she doesn't seem to stay in the village for very long. As I said, Wille was planning to pick her up from the beginning. That was a priority for them. If each of her visits played out like this, I think there wouldn't be a problem to let Asuka stay with her friend for a couple of days. Speaking of which, it's been 14 years. Even if Kensuke and Asuka don't live together, I think they had plenty of time to bond.
As for her shared room with Mari, let's think for a second. Asuka was at the AAA Wunder at the beginning of Q. That wasn't very long ago, if you think about it. By the way, I believe Asuka didn't comment on the room not having changed. She was just surprised by the sheer amount of books that Mari packed in it. This is something that Mari could have done in a short time. I mean, Shikinami even refers to the room as "home"!

Derantor wrote:it doesn't explain why she's surprised she's being let back on board.

Now, let's talk about this in particular. It's definitely a mystery. Perhaps the events of Q have changed Wille's internal dynamics. I mean, they increased the number of explosives near their room. Just to be clear, I'm not totally dismissing your idea. It’s impossible for us to know exactly what’s going on until we watch the movie.

Derantor wrote: "I don't live here" can also simply mean "this is not the place where I belong."

I thought about this! It would make sense if Asuka said it by herself. However, she was answering Ayanami's question. Taking into account the context, I believe that Rei said "live" in the literal sense of the word. Nuke-senpai's translation made this even clearer to me.

Derantor wrote:She's different. She's feared and mistrusted, and they didn't let her forget that for 28 years. She doesn't need to eat - she doesn't grow. She can't even sleep. Yeah, I would self-isolate too.

This is true. That's why I consider her endgame to be so emotional. Shinji saved Asuka and sent her back to Kensuke's house. She is finally free of any angelic traits and is able to grow, like any human. Asuka can finally live the life she deserves!

Derantor wrote:The times simply don't permit sentimentality.

I agree! Be suspicious of Misato? All right, that's reasonable! Asuka doesn't seem to be afraid of her, but it's possible. That said, I'm not sure if she would project this on some laid-back villagers.
Just sit here and waste your precious time. When you want to do something, don't do it right away. Don't do it when you can. Read my posts instead. It's the only way to live a life without regrets.


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