How do you feel about Shinji ending up with Mari?

[Jehoel]

Yeah, claiming that Mari somehow "cannibalized Misato's importance" is a strawman if I've ever seen one.

Moreso than Misato's importance, I'd say Mari cannibalizes Asuka's ending.
Looking at all the other characters, their endings (while not necessarily great) at least see them take control/redeem themselves/gain something that they didn't have in NGE (even Ritsuko shoots first).

Asuka loses again in her final battle and from that point onwards she continues to be at the mercy of what other characters choose for her: Gendo using her as 13's "engine", being a clear case, but even during her farewell scene Asuka doesn't get to play an active role or take control.
She is lying down and receives Shinji and Mari's farewell without being given the opportunity to respond or express her own feelings, before getting "kicked" out into Unit 13's entry plug (and that's all that there is to her ending aside from the faceless cameo at the station).
For a character often associated to dolls and puppetry (even moreso after her instrumentality) I feel like she deserved a much more active role at the end (cutting her strings so to speak).

To go back to Mari cannibalizing Asuka's ending; even setting aside the palette/girl swap of the beach scene or the symbolism of holding hands at the station to counter the shot of Asuka and Shinji's separated arms of EoE, Mari even gets to "munch" on some Evas in the last part of the movie, which would have been a nice subversion and satisfaction for Asuka who gets eaten by Evas three times in Evangelion.

Considering an old interview where they brought up the idea of Mari's role being that of usurping Asuka (supposedly rejected) it feels like this may have been done on purpose. I only wish the movie could provide more of a satisfying conclusion for Asuka...

[Joseki]

he clearly has a lot of pent-up emotions toward him and a lot to say (the possibility of their interactions was the source of a ton of speculation between Q and Shin), yet almost nothing happens during part A, when she had nothing else to do (and did nothing).

This makes sense if you consider the ending.

The entire structure of Shin makes complete sense if start from the idea that the movie itself exists so that Anno could completely close with Eva and the ending has to reflect that.
If Anno (and his desire is translated by the character Shinji Ikari) has to leave behind "Eva", then he needs to show Shinji leaving Eva behind, and the ending does that. To have that ending, Shinji needs to have all of his relationship be closed very definitely, and by having Shinji and Asuka talk only after the plot has put both of them in a situation of no return their confessions are perfectly set up to express finality.
Alternatevely if Asuka came forward in part A, Shinji and Asuka both would have had to rediscuss their feelings later in the movie.

[ElMariachi]

This makes sense if you consider the ending.

The entire structure of Shin makes complete sense if start from the idea that the movie itself exists so that Anno could completely close with Eva and the ending has to reflect that.
If Anno (and his desire is translated by the character Shinji Ikari) has to leave behind "Eva", then he needs to show Shinji leaving Eva behind, and the ending does that. To have that ending, Shinji needs to have all of his relationship be closed very definitely, and by having Shinji and Asuka talk only after the plot has put both of them in a situation of no return their confessions are perfectly set up to express finality.
Alternatevely if Asuka came forward in part A, Shinji and Asuka both would have had to rediscuss their feelings later in the movie.

That make sense. Although because of that I feel that Shin is not the end of Shinji Ikari's story, but Hideaki Anno saying his farewell to the franchise, and while the movie was going to have of the latter (after all, Evangelion is and always was his most personal creation), it cannibalized the former. And the epilogue taking place in an Ube digitally modified to look like the one from Anno's childhood doesn't help me thinking otherwise.

Which lead to Shin where Shinji seemingly cut all the ties he made during his journey: he doesn't try to get close to Kensuke and Toji again (because they have their own adult life), doesn't try to get close to Asuka despite both living in the same place for whatever long they stayed in Village-3, barely talks to Misato and only to go to the final battle (where there isn't time to say much between them), and in the end decides that Rei should live away from him (thus preventing him from living with the Suzuharas), decides that Kaworu should live away from him (thus preventing him from going to live with Misato, btw did someone thought to ask her if she was okay with having Kaworu living with her instead of Shinji?) and decided that Asuka should live away from him. (thus preventing him from living with Kensuke)

Under that light, Mari being at his side in the epilogue is less a question of shipping or mentorship but more a way to avoid the ending to be depressing for Shinji, because at this point he has no one else left in his life.

As for Asuka coming forward to him in Part A, that wouldn't mean that she would spill the beans about the full extend of her feelings, the same way that Misato didn't immediately told Shinji why she was fighting the Angels and what they were protecting in Jo, or that Rei didn't came forward about her feelings immediately in Ha.
But have at least one first step, there are a ton of things that they could talk about and with no one else in Village-3: the true extend of Asuka's changes due to the 9th Angel (so e could realize with his own eyes exactly what he did to her), what's this curse of Eva that afflict them (especially since it's heavily implied that Shinji will be fully affected too), why Shinji didn't listened to her when she told him to stop in Lilith's Chamber (which could also serve to talk a little about Kaworu, I mean he's the dude that stopped N3I and commanded NERV for a time, they must have things to say about him!), maybe a couple of questions about what happened and how things were during those past 14 years... that would contribute to the theme of Shinji gaining maturity, in that he tries to understand what happened to take the full extend of what he did so he can face the consequences instead of coming to an immediate conclusion and sticking to it no matter what.
And of course, the big question from Asuka about why she wanted to punch him won't happen there, because she felt that he wasn't ready yet (or that she fears the answer), that'll be for their final talk in the Wunder, as a way to seal the fact that yes, he's not the brat that he was before.

[Ray]

After seeing the final movie I believe Anno idolizes his wife for being his light in a dark point of his life, and thus created Mari to act as his self-insert for how he personally feels she is as a woman. Which is adorable. But it does make her inclusion, and her connection to Shinji a bit more tacked on. I'd have preferred they spent more time together establishing a real relationship. She just kind of ends up with Shinji, they barely had any interaction with each other before the final movie, there really isn't that much chemistry established between them. Maybe my opinion will change after a rewatch or proper analysis.

[Blockio]

I'm not sold on the idea that Mari and Shinji are a couple; at least not in the one true love kind of sense. Ultimately the interaction that we did see at the end wouldn't have felt out of place from Mari's side with pretty much any other character in Shinji's place; that on top of the general thing that Eva tends to not portray things as quite as black and white as "find girl all problems fixed". I'm fairly confident in saying that Anno probably considers Mari to be the nudge in the right direction that everyone in the show needs (being all taken from himself with Mari ostensibly taken from Moyoco), but as demonstrated by Shinji, the work towards bettering oneself has to come from within

[Axx°N N.]

The problem for me with reading it as not strictly romantic is the inclusion of the boob lines. It's sexual in nature and so it nudges it toward relationship territory if not physical attraction. If they didn't want to suggest as much, it's a bizarre thing to include both from the perspective of her as a character, as something appropriate for her to lead with to a stranger (even accounting for how in-your-face she is), and belittling in terms of men writing women.

Shinji's line about "never crying again" in his life kind of does fit in with an "all problems fixed" approach to the resolution, and even applies a (weirdly unrealistic) certainty and temporal nature to it to boot, though it's not really tied in strictly with Mari.

[Chrad]

I cannot believe we're supposed to accept Mari as someone close to Gendo's age. The most juvenile, freaky anime type of the whole cast.

For her to be positioned as some sort of symbol of 'growing up' and 'moving on' into reality boggles the mind.

[RussianRiz]

Well, sexual attraction doesn't directly mean an established romance. Maybe they will only have fun without major commitment. I know it sounds pretty straightfoward, but not less likely.

[Axx°N N.]

I cannot believe we're supposed to accept Mari as someone close to Gendo's age. The most juvenile, freaky anime type of the whole cast.

Well, if the message and her role is really "change," it's better that she can be used to counter the notion that growing up must mean becoming "more adult," which personally I'm not fond of--a mature adult imo is just someone who's figured out who they are and can relate it healthily toward others. Otherwise the ending is liable to be read as "move on from anime" or "leave Evangelion behind" which, anyway, I've still seen a lot of people saying but which makes no sense to me and is taking the "Anno is advising you to change your life" thing too far, because he himself is very much still an otaku.

The problem with Mari is more the lack of development. Her enthusiasm itself is fine, or could be fine, but we have no insight into where it stems from, not just in terms of backstory but in a broad human sense. It makes any take about her more or less a reach.

[Chrad]

Honestly my issue with it is simpler. I cannot imagine a woman in her 40s who worked with people like Gendo, Yui and Fuyutsuki in a military organisation running around sniffing a teenaged boy, spouting catchphrases and talking about her boobs to an almost-stranger.

But yes, her lack of any kind interior life makes the message of the ending hinging on her almost insulting, especially in a show that's so grounded in character psychology. She can't be read as anything but a symbol.

[El Squibbonator]

Gonna be blunt. Didn’t like it. At all. The last two movies really teased the possibility that Asuka and Mari might become an item, and there was even some dialogue in the fourth movie that hinted at it. I’ve seen them portrayed as lovers in god-knows-how-many fanfics, and the subtext for it in the movies seemed to be there. But at the end, it’s all thrown out the window so Mari can end up with Shinji.

The fourth movie queer-baits its audience like nobody’s business, and honestly this was my biggest frustration with it. Mari and Asuka make a much more natural couple than Mari and Shinji, but for whatever reason the movie won’t let us have that.

And the fact that it comes out of nowhere in the final act, after Asuka is killed, honestly felt like the writers were actively trying to piss off Asuka/Mari shippers like me.

[Kid]

Gonna be blunt. Didn’t like it. At all. The last two movies really teased the possibility that Asuka and Mari might become an item, and there was even some dialogue in the fourth movie that hinted at it. I’ve seen them portrayed as lovers in god-knows-how-many fanfics, and the subtext for it in the movies seemed to be there.

I am very curious as to which subs/translation you watched the films with. The only time I ever got even a hint of romantic anything between those two was the original theatrical English dub release of 3.0.

[Axx°N N.]

Honestly my issue with it is simpler. I cannot imagine a woman in her 40s who worked with people like Gendo, Yui and Fuyutsuki in a military organisation running around sniffing a teenaged boy, spouting catchphrases and talking about her boobs to an almost-stranger.

When you frame it that way, yeah, I completely agree.

[El Squibbonator]

Well, in the fourth movie, I particularly got it from the scene when they’re both in Mari’s room and Asuka is talking to Mari about how she “doesn’t need boys”.

[Natalie the Cat]

I didn’t get any impression that Shinji was with anyone in the end and had in fact let them all go. He didn’t have to love or have love from any of these people but was still ready to accept it.

Mari’s importance to this story is that she’s a cosmic fool or metaphysical prisoner: she’s not supposed to be there and thus is free to act. That’s why she seeks so much like a plot device or a deus ex machina. She kind of is. She derails the Eva Pain Train. She’s a walking antidepressant.

She pulled him out of… wherever he was and enabled him to end up where he was at the end. Up until she involved herself in the ending *he didn’t even know her name*, and they’d previously only met once.

Mari is chaos and freedom, an escape from a predetermined world into one of unfettered possibility. It ends with her because the movie is over. The book is closed. Shinji is now out of sight, free from torturous dictates of an omniscient observer who locks him into the cruel path of plot, gazing upon him with eyes far distant and casting dooms against him. He has passed into a void out of our sight and minds. He is free.

[Registration2]

People saying that Shinji to get together with Mari is a stretch and pulled out of the ass at the last minute.

Did you think the same of Shinji went from moping guy to last fisherman of the lake to watch Rei get tang'ed after he named her to be the one who decided to go back to the wunder.

Or the super meaningful day he spent with Kaji.

If there is one thing we know, the boy moves fast with his decisions. Good thing that it was mari who got him, it was the best pick.

[Chrad]

People saying that Shinji to get together with Mari is a stretch and pulled out of the ass at the last minute.

Did you think the same of Shinji went from moping guy to last fisherman of the lake to watch Rei get tang'ed after he named her to be the one who decided to go back to the wunder.

Yes.

[pwhodges]

I see Mari as Shinji's mentor and friend as he faces reality and adulthood, with no romantic linkage at.

[WILLE_Coyote]

I want to read Shinji and Mari's interactions in the final scene as non-romantic, but I feel the implication is pretty clear.

[evaunit13]

I see Mari as Shinji's mentor and friend as he faces reality and adulthood, with no romantic linkage at.

Reading Mari as an amalgamated self-insert of various people around the production (the other animators, Moyoco), I see her as the guide that helps Shinji/Anno grow up and move past Evangelion on a narrative and meta level. It would also help explain her Mary Sueness, as of course a self-insert would be incredibly attractive and essentially unstoppable.