Clarifications upon second viewing

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition"). The final instalment made its debut in Japan on March 8, 2021.

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Clarifications upon second viewing

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Postby Nuclear Lunchbox » Sat Apr 10, 2021 9:37 pm

I'm headed back to go see Shin Evangelion again today and I'm wondering if there are any things people want clarification on. I'm going to be taking notes this time, so if there's a segment of the film where you're thinking, "Is that how that happened?" or "Did X happen before Y?" then I'll try to pay attention there for you.

Handful of specific things I'm going to be keeping an eye out for:

  • What are some of the specifics of the interaction between Sakura, pink-hair Wunder bunny, and Shinji?
  • Asuka's physical transformation during the end of Additional Impact, ie. when does it become noticable?
  • Entire sequence where Asuka attacks Unit 13, primarily wrt the generation of the AT Field and when another Shikinami appears to drag Asuka out of her seat and the DSS choker, who's saying what?
  • Asuka = clone flashbacks, more detailed information
  • Gendo's interactions with Shinji in the flashback, what's the ordering here
  • Mari's interactions with Fuyutsuki and potential existence in old photos/flashback scenes
  • General visual notes on where the Wunder crew ends up after ejection

And I'm sure there are other things, but these are the main ones that come to mind. Leave notes here, I'm not going to the theater for another five hours, so you've got time! I'll check responses before I sit down for another three-hour viewing experience.

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Postby Kendrix » Sat Apr 10, 2021 9:47 pm

Thanks a bunch!

My interest would also be in noteworthy flashback scenes.(details from the Gendo ones etc.)
Also, Mari's reaction after Asuka gets absorbed because I've heard from some that it's a real "the mask slips" type moment, Mari calls her her name instead of 'princess' etc.

Also, Rei stuff, esp. any detail on the 2 or so scenes Rei 2 has.
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Postby Konja7 » Sat Apr 10, 2021 9:52 pm

View Original PostKendrix wrote:Also, Rei stuff, esp. any detail on the 2 or so scenes Rei 2 has.

Yeah. Rei II seems a little ignored in the Instrumentality compared to Asuka or Kaworu.

Some theorize it is because Rei Q has development in the Village.

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Postby Gendo's Glasses » Sat Apr 10, 2021 11:32 pm

Big thing I'm curious about is the interplay between Near Third Impact and Third Impact Actual. It seems strange that we get a flashback of Misato at Third Impact Actual yet the characters of the film seem to act as if Near Third was worse.

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Re: Clarifications upon second viewing

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Postby Kendrix » Sun Apr 11, 2021 12:35 am

i did hear something about a flashback involving the k 6 and a floating lillith head
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Postby Konja7 » Sun Apr 11, 2021 12:39 am

View Original PostKendrix wrote:i did hear something about a flashback involving the k 6 and a floating lillith head

Yeah. That was the flashback about the Third Impact (stopped by Kaji) between 2.0 and 3.0.

However, the point of discussion is what event (the Near Third Impact or the Third Impact) changed the world between 2.0 and 3.0.


I think the world changing event is the Near Third Impact. In 3.0+1.0. Characters speak about the Near Third Impact (released by Shinji) like it being the worst thing they face in these 14 years.
Last edited by Konja7 on Sun Apr 11, 2021 5:10 am, edited 11 times in total.

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Postby BernardoCairo » Sun Apr 11, 2021 12:42 am

Well, you're covering pretty much the entire ground here (especially when it comes to Asuka). If I could ask for anything else, it would be:
1: Your full thoughts on the "Voyager sequence" and how the second beach scene is connected to the train station segment. You know, after leaving the blue sea, Shinji and Mari are still in teenage bodies. However, in the next scene, the two are grown up. What's your take on this whole situation?
2: I think Misato's role in the third act of the movie could be better explained to us. I want to know more about what happens between her final conversation with Shinji and her death.

Well, that's it. Thank you, man!
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Re: Clarifications upon second viewing

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Postby pwhodges » Sun Apr 11, 2021 4:23 am

Is there any explanation or comment on the appearance of the earth with a mouth and teeth in Q?
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Postby DantesInferno » Sun Apr 11, 2021 4:58 am

View Original Postpwhodges wrote:Is there any explanation or comment on the appearance of the earth with a mouth and teeth in Q?


No; I guess that will just remain as somethin thrown in for "third impact was really weird beyond your imagination" effect.

We do know from Gendo's words that third impact's aim was to "purify the land" (2I's was to purify the sea, and 4I's to purify the souls).

Now you just need to make the connection between "being purified" and "developing facial features" :D

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Postby EscapismIsBad » Sun Apr 11, 2021 7:34 am

I would like if you could gather all of the Mari backstory, even the Japanese aren't certain about her unfortunately.
Is she really just a very old person who got frozen by the Curse of EVA?
What's the deal with her appearing in Gendo instrumentality?

The moment i saw Mari cutting Asuka's hair and talking about humanity i instantly reminded of that panel of manga which is Yui taking care of Mari's hair.
Does Mari activate Beast Mode or it's just a feature of the overlapping capability?
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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Sun Apr 11, 2021 7:57 am

View Original PostDantesInferno wrote:
View Original Postpwhodges#919866 wrote:Now you just need to make the connection between "being purified" and "developing facial features" :D

It is said that if you draw a face on an object, you are less likely to lose that object. Perhaps the Impacts were so crazy and wild that Gendo had to implement that tactic so as not to misplace the entire planet in the process. :lol:

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Postby ElMariachi » Sun Apr 11, 2021 8:06 am

View Original PostDantesInferno wrote:Now you just need to make the connection between "being purified" and "developing facial features" :D

Advanced skin care brought to the next level. :emogendo:
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Postby Nuclear Lunchbox » Sun Apr 11, 2021 9:14 am

Okay, I went to go see the movie again and GUUUUUUUHHHH it's so good. Let's go in order, shall we?

Avant

The sound design in Avant is just... luxurious. I know we could watch it on Youtube, and I know a bunch of people saw it live in Paris. but when you're sitting in a theater and you hear the BUDDA-BUDDA-BUDDA of Mari's machine gun while she's fighting the 44-types... man, you feel that in your chest. There's lots of labeling on the Eva crates giving information about what's inside, so that'll definitely be a scene to freeze-frame when we have a BD.

Village

So the village scene lasts about 50 minutes to when the Wunder departs for Antarctica. I was a little worried it might drag on a second viewing, but the time seemed to pass even faster this time around!

There's an interesting note where Shinji's suit starts beeping with a low battery warning right before Kensuke comes to pick them up-- what does his suit need to be powering? Is it what's letting Shinji live through the 3I-ified landscape? He's probably not fine in it, because they stick him in a suit later, so maybe it's providing some sort of protective function? The village is called Village-3, which makes me chuckle.

Kensuke and Asuka interacting! Asuka's naked when Shinji arrives at the house, and then Kensuke comes in and drops a towel on her. (I thought this was where he photographed her-- this actually happens later right before she gets ready to go back on the Wunder, and he's filming her "for memories".)

HUGE thing I missed the first time around: remember how Shinji pukes every time he sees Asuka wearing the DSS choker or remembers she's wearing it? She puts on a scarf! She wraps a scarf around her neck whenever she's around Shinji so he doesn't have to see her wearing it! It's a touching gesture that I honestly didn't pay any attention to on the first viewing. It's sweet.

Also, some more nuance to Asuka's line "this isn't a place I belong, it's a place I protect" that I translated from her character intro uploaded to youtube. She says this line in response to Rei III asking if Asuka worked in the village when she first arrived, so I would actually edit my translation to the following. (Memory may not be exact, forgive me slight inconsistency, but the feeling is accurate.)

Rei III: "Did you work when first came here too?"
Asuka: "Are you stupid? This isn't a place I live. This is a place I protect."

Ah, don't worry, I didn't forget about Rei III. She gets so many great character moments in the village. She's just so charming. When her suit starts beeping to reveal her LCL levels are imbalanced, the error code is 4209. Don't know what that means, maybe someone smarter than I will understand this. The scene where her head explodes is no easier to watch, I still flinched when it happened. The explosion is initially red before turning orange.

Oh, and there's some surprise Rei II in here. She appears to Shinji when he's out moping near the ruins in the same appearance she always appears to Shinji as in that weird metaphysical state, wearing the classic school uniform.

Shinji goes back to the Wunder, pink-hair bridge bunny complains about stuff, Sakura and Shinji have some moments, Mari and Asuka reunite and Mari's all over her like white on rice, we get the halfway point.

Battle
The battle preparations are pretty short, only about 10 minutes or so. We do get a flashback to 3I, with Unit 06 attached to Lilith's neck and skulls falling down in Central Dogma. Beyond that it's just a lot of Ritsuko and Misato talking, with some lines about Misato failing as a mother that are just as sad to hear the second time as the first.

Mari and Asuka's Evangelion units have been outfitted with the new equipment and Mari has something attached to her Eva that says Hakone Express 08. I thought it was amusing enough to write it down.

The battle itself... man, what a feast for the eyes and ears. Sagisu continues to go absolutely ham on his soundtrack, treating us to a sumptuous auditory buffet that goes perfectly with the visuals.

Now let's talk about Asuka and Unit 13. The AT field that appears is indeed Unit 02's, and Asuka questions if it's because "Neo-02 is afraid of Unit 13". Asuka uses her own field to break through Unit 13's in an absolutely amazing scene, Unit 02 becomes this crazy psychedelic glowing Evangelion and sprouts another pair of arms that rips the AT Field in twain... and then Unit 13 fires a beam, bursting Unit 02's head, slips out of its restraints, and starts strangling Unit 02. It uses its second pair of arms to reach in and grab Asuka's entry plug... and then the other Shikinami appears.

Asuka asks aloud to herself, "Is that my original?" The Shikinami series, as is revealed, was meant to aid Gendo in his plans, and so the clone pulls Asuka out of her DSS choker (at which point Asuka's eye seems to regenerate!) and then the collar explodes, Unit 13 pulls out the entry plug, and that's the end of that. After Gendo breaks in to the Wunder, we're treated to a shot of Unit 02's severed head that hearkens back to the gross shot of the head from End of Evangelion.

By the way, Mari does scream, "Asuka!" after Asuka's Evangelion is destroyed and she gets taken, but it just feels like a regular ol' anguished scream.

Instrumentality and the lead-up

Not much to unpack in the bridge bunny scene. Pink girl aims the gun first, but Sakura actually shoots first, hah. Misato and Shinji do get to talk, and combined with the conversation between Ritsuko and Shinji earlier in the film, it feels satisfactory enough.

When Shinji gets brought to Unit 01 past the Doors of Guf by Mari piloting her Unit 08 after it consumed Unit 09, Rei II with long hair is piloting Unit 01. Interesting imagery there.

When Shinji and Gendo are fighting, they start their battle in Tokyo-3. This transitions to Misato's apartment, then Shinji's classroom, then Rei II's room, then Kaji's field, and then Village-3.

When Shinji and Gendo are talking, I forgot that Shinji gives him the SDAT player first! That's more significant than what I remembered. We get all of Gendo's flashbacks (and Mari does seem to appear in them, which is weird, but unfortunately there's not very much of this explained, so I guess we'll have to wait for the BD release because fuck if I'll be able to understand all that just by watching the movie at regular speed.)

Misato delivers the Spear of Gaius to Shinji in the middle of his conversation with Gendo. She has the picture of Shinji and her son on the dashboard as she flies into GNR's eye (I guess they're the windows to the soul, hah) and then the Wunder explodes. RIP Misato.

The last part of Gendo's chat with Shinji shows him in the past leaving the crying Shinji and walking away... before the modern Gendo comes back to hug the young, crying Shinji. Back on the train in instrumentality, Gendo takes the SDAT player and departs. Shinji and Kaworu are the next ones to talk, Kaworu telling Shinji that Shinji's dealt with his dad, now it's Kaworu's turn to deal with Shinji, but Shinji declines, saying he cares more about helping Asuka.

And now we get to my goddamn favorite part of all this.

Looooots of Asuka clones, getting whittled down one by one, until we arrive at the last two. There's a battle simulation where we see two shots of what appear to be the same battle against a single enemy, but with two people fighting it. Each screen seems to highlight one of the two people fighting the enemy, until one grabs the other, using it as a shield against the enemy, presumably killing the other person in the process. If that means Asuka demonstrated the uselessness of a clone of herself in order to show she was the only one who could win... that's brutal. Poor Asuka.

Asuka gets a double-wakeup. First, the adult version of her wakes up on the beach after Kensuke 'saves' her. She and Shinji talk, Mari comes by to say hello for some reason, then she wakes up again in her entry plug as her adult self, and the entry plug ejects from Unit 13 and winds up near Kensuke's house. (Nice.)

Shinji and Kaworu have their talk, Kaworu and Kaji have their talk.

Then we get the scene with Shinji and Rei II! It's pretty awesome, they're in a big warehouse with lots of Evangelion suits and set pieces and remote control tech and mo-cap cameras and assorted tech, really hammering home the 'produced' nature of things. Rei II is holding a cobbled-together doll that has a piece of tape with "Tsubame" written on it, which is the name of Hikari's kid. You really have to be looking for that one, it's nearly blink and you miss it if you don't have a pause button.

Voyager sequence

Shinji's ready to sacrifice himself for the Additional Impact before Yui takes his place. Gendo hugs Yui from Unit 13 as she impales all the Evangelions with the Spear of Gaius. The whole Voyager sequence only lasts around 5 minutes.

The End

Mari and Shinji meet on the beach, and then Shinji "wakes up" at the train station when Mari comes to get him, and they're both aged up. I've mentioned before my interpretation is that Shinji creates the world as it is, fully-formed, and everyone appears in it to populate it from that exact moment. NOTE: Mari says before she sends Shinji off to wait for her, because she'll come for him.

I'm not sure how earned anything with Mari is, and her background is still very murky, but I don't completely hate it, because who else is Shinji supposed to end up with? I guess the answer could be "nobody", but I dunno, I'm okay with this.

Goddamn good film.

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Re: Clarifications upon second viewing

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Postby JuanSorel » Sun Apr 11, 2021 9:41 am

View Original PostNuclear Lunchbox wrote: Mari says before she sends Shinji off to wait for her, because she'll come for him.



Nice parallelism with the end of Avant.

And nice write up. Thanks for the effort.

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Re: Clarifications upon second viewing

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Postby BernardoCairo » Sun Apr 11, 2021 10:59 am

Nuclear Lunchbox wrote:Looooots of Asuka clones, getting whittled down one by one, until we arrive at the last two. There's a battle simulation where we see two shots of what appear to be the same battle against a single enemy, but with two people fighting it. Each screen seems to highlight one of the two people fighting the enemy, until one grabs the other, using it as a shield against the enemy, presumably killing the other person in the process. If that means Asuka demonstrated the uselessness of a clone of herself in order to show she was the only one who could win

Damn! This scene sounds horrifically amazing! Honestly, Asuka's instrumentality is, by a long shot, the segment I'm most looking forward to! I already knew everything that happened from the first beach scene onwards. However, what took place before it was still a bit "blurry". Thank you for clarifying some things! Anyway, I guess I was right then.
At the moment, I have the impression that several Shikinamis were raised at the same time, instead of individually. In other words, they were pitch against each other to see who would survive, or something. That makes sense considering Nerv's time frame between the Second Impact and HA, right?

Oh, just one more thing. Was Asuka fully aware that she was fighting other clones, or did she just have an "idea" of that? You know, when nobody tells you what's going on. However, you can feel that there is something "off" in the air. I ask this, because I find it weird to think that Asuka already knew all of this by the time of HA. That said, "toddler Shikinami" doesn't seem to be completely unaware of the situation.
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Postby Nuclear Lunchbox » Sun Apr 11, 2021 11:08 am

There's a big wall with lots of Asuka headshots, and the headshots are steadily removed until there are two. There are breaks between the shots of Asuka in the Eva or in a plugsuit and her in a gymnasium, or sitting somewhere else listlessly, making me think we're watching some time pass until we arrive at the final 'test'. We watch the battle expressed as these blocky CG characters kind of like Shinji fighting Sachiel in the sims all the way back in Jo, so it's very clean and sanitized. Asuka looks miserable in the test plug, though.

I think Asuka knows she's one of many Shikinamis and that there's only going to be one who gets to move on. I don't know if she explicitly says this in dialogue, but I think it would make sense for her to know that she's not the only one in her program, since the Asukas in their LCL tubes don't seem to be comatose or anything. And besides, it's all the more creepy if they're all awake and they know there's only going to be one Shikinami left at the end.

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Re: Clarifications upon second viewing

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Postby ElMariachi » Sun Apr 11, 2021 11:29 am

View Original PostNuclear Lunchbox wrote:There's an interesting note where Shinji's suit starts beeping with a low battery warning right before Kensuke comes to pick them up-- what does his suit need to be powering? Is it what's letting Shinji live through the 3I-ified landscape? He's probably not fine in it, because they stick him in a suit later, so maybe it's providing some sort of protective function? The village is called Village-3, which makes me chuckle.

That recalls me that Shinji also needed to wear a hazmat suit in Q when Kaworu brought him to the exterior of neo-NERV HQ, so indeed, maybe he (and the other pilots) are not immune to the L-Barrier effect but merely more resistant, that's why he, Asuka and Rei Q can go through their walk without a helmet while the WILLE crew in Paris needs to wear an additional sealed helmet?
Village-3 is an obvious reference to Tokyo-3, the little scenes of people walking around with upbeat music playing that I saw in the TV ads make it even more obvious that Part A is Shin's equivalent of the first half of 2.0, and I wonder if it can even be considered a mirror version of it: it's in a small countryside village instead of a sprawling city, Shinji and Asuka stay isolated while Rei Q quickly finds her place (the reverse of 2.0), I've even read that Rei Q goes to the village school! (and that hilariously, they use the same uniforms as the Tokyo-3 middle-school the pilot used to go! :rofl: )


View Original PostNuclear Lunchbox wrote:HUGE thing I missed the first time around: remember how Shinji pukes every time he sees Asuka wearing the DSS choker or remembers she's wearing it? She puts on a scarf! She wraps a scarf around her neck whenever she's around Shinji so he doesn't have to see her wearing it! It's a touching gesture that I honestly didn't pay any attention to on the first viewing. It's sweet.

That's something I suspected too: she lives apart from the rest of the village, seems fine to running around essentially naked except with panties and a jacket, yet the only other piece of clothing she wears is that scarf. I supposed that between Shinji's reaction at seeing hers, and the facts that he doesn't wear his one anymore yet it transmitted the status that it detonated and that EVA-13 was a dual-entry plug, she put two-and-two together and guessed that he probably saw the other pilot's head explode.
That's a hint that she still cares about him, and well, it's hard to make someone get a hold of themselves if you trigger their PTSD everytime they see your choker! :tongue:


View Original PostNuclear Lunchbox wrote:Also, some more nuance to Asuka's line "this isn't a place I belong, it's a place I protect" that I translated from her character intro uploaded to youtube. She says this line in response to Rei III asking if Asuka worked in the village when she first arrived, so I would actually edit my translation to the following. (Memory may not be exact, forgive me slight inconsistency, but the feeling is accurate.)

Rei III: "Did you work when first came here too?"
Asuka: "Are you stupid? This isn't a place I live. This is a place I protect."

Isn't there an implication that Kensuke's place is her house when she's not in the Wunder? Does she implies that she don't live as in "not being part of the community" because she isolate herself, or is the implication that she never comes in Village-3? (which wouldn't make sense if Kensuke has been her father figure for the past 14 years, unless his jacket with the Wunder/WILLE logo implies that he worked in the Wunder before moving to Village-3)


View Original PostNuclear Lunchbox wrote:Shinji goes back to the Wunder, pink-hair bridge bunny complains about stuff, Sakura and Shinji have some moments, Mari and Asuka reunite and Mari's all over her like white on rice, we get the halfway point.

Does Sakura and Shinji say something interesting, like Shinji apologizing for not listening to her pleas to not pilot again, or keeping her updated on her brother and his family?


View Original PostNuclear Lunchbox wrote:Not much to unpack in the bridge bunny scene. Pink girl aims the gun first, but Sakura actually shoots first, hah. Misato and Shinji do get to talk, and combined with the conversation between Ritsuko and Shinji earlier in the film, it feels satisfactory enough.

You mean the conversation between Ritsuko and Misato, or does the former and Shinji also have a talk?


View Original PostNuclear Lunchbox wrote:Misato delivers the Spear of Gaius to Shinji in the middle of his conversation with Gendo. She has the picture of Shinji and her son on the dashboard as she flies into GNR's eye (I guess they're the windows to the soul, hah) and then the Wunder explodes. RIP Misato.

Is the rest of the Wunder crew with her, or did they evacuated first?


View Original PostNuclear Lunchbox wrote:Rei II is holding a cobbled-together doll that has a piece of tape with "Tsubame" written on it, which is the name of Hikari's kid. You really have to be looking for that one, it's nearly blink and you miss it if you don't have a pause button.

Wait a second, does that implies that Rei Q's memories fused with Rei II and that in a way the former is still "alive"? That would explain why Rei decided to live in Village-3 at the end.


View Original PostNuclear Lunchbox wrote:Mari and Shinji meet on the beach, and then Shinji "wakes up" at the train station when Mari comes to get him, and they're both aged up. I've mentioned before my interpretation is that Shinji creates the world as it is, fully-formed, and everyone appears in it to populate it from that exact moment. NOTE: Mari says before she sends Shinji off to wait for her, because she'll come for him.

So two question :
  • Is the meeting in the beach still in Instrumentality/Minus space, or are they already back in the real world?
  • When exactly does she says to Shinji to wait for her: when she first brings him to 01 through the Doors of Guf, or in the beach scene just before Shinji wakes up in the train station?

I remember reading about something that Shinji says to Kaworu during Instrumentality that could explain why Shinji comes back as an adult (if the train station scene indeed chronologically happens right after the beach scene): Shinji tells Kaworu that now he remembers all the times they met before, as in in all the previous loops internal to Rebuild (I'm not talking about Sequel Theory), can you confirm that Shinji indeed says that?
So could it be that Shinji received the memories of all his lives in the other loops, and that put all together that made him feel more like an adult than a teenager who still knows nothing of life, and that's why he came back as an adult? (and, conformist as he is and since he's still mainly a person from the pre-3I world, his vision of an adult is a guy dressed like a Japanese salaryman! :D )

Similarity, if Rei and Rei Q merged, depending on how much time Rei Q has been alive before Shin, added to Rei 2's 14 years of life it might adds to an age closer to adulthood. Since IIRC we only see her from the back and she's smaller than Kaworu, it's hard to know for sure if she's a short adult (but IIRC Yui was a tall woman), if she's an adult but Kaworu is a tall adult or if she's still a teen and Kaworu is an adult. (again IIRC in the size chart Kaworu is supposed to be slightly taller than Rei, and in this scene he's like one head and half taller!)


View Original PostNuclear Lunchbox wrote:I'm not sure how earned anything with Mari is, and her background is still very murky, but I don't completely hate it, because who else is Shinji supposed to end up with? I guess the answer could be "nobody", but I dunno, I'm okay with this.

I've seen a lot of interpretations about those two in the last scene. Apparently Shinji's answer to Mari when she goes "guess who?" ("Nice lady with big breasts") is a call-back to Mari's formal introduction to him just when Asuka and he had their last conversation before the final battle: she covers his eyes, says "guess who?", then adds "Hint: Rooftop, glasses, nice lady with big boobs", which is the main hint that there wasn't a complete reset of everything, memories included, like it was in the manga.
I've seen others go even deeper and say that, due to Anno's love for repeating shots and situations, since in Gendo's flashback it's revealed that Gendo met Yui thanks to Mari (can you confirm?), then history might repeat itself and Mari will play matchmakers between Shinji and Asuka, like she teased each others already in Q and Shin.

Or, if we take my theory that Shinji remembers his lives from other timelines, maybe in those he didn't ended inside EVA-01's core for 14 years but ultimately ended with Mari, and in that last scene it's them rekindling their relationship.

Or maybe it's only a metaphor of Anno leaving behind Evangelion (represented by the DSS Choker) with the guidance of his wife (represented by Mari) and we're all uselessly fanwanking, wouldn't be the first time! :lol:
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Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

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Re: Clarifications upon second viewing

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Postby Konja7 » Sun Apr 11, 2021 11:41 am

Considering all the pilots are adults in the Epilogue, I'm pretty sure Rei is an adult too. Her clothes are also for an adult.

It's pretty likely Kaworu is a pretty tall adult, so Rei looks short by comparison.

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Re: Clarifications upon second viewing

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Postby BernardoCairo » Sun Apr 11, 2021 12:28 pm

Nuclear Lunchbox wrote:I think Asuka knows she's one of many Shikinamis and that there's only going to be one who gets to move on. I don't know if she explicitly says this in dialogue, but I think it would make sense for her to know that she's not the only one in her program, since the Asukas in their LCL tubes don't seem to be comatose or anything. And besides, it's all the more creepy if they're all awake and they know there's only going to be one Shikinami left at the end.

Oh, I see what you're saying. It makes sense for Asuka to know what's going on. It raises the stakes of what we are about to see. From your description, this whole sequence seems to be indescribably miserable (I imagine they opted for a "lifeless" color palette while working with it). I never thought Asuka didn't know that she was fighting other clones. However, I wasn't sure if anyone had explicitly said that to her. I imagined she could have deduced parts of the situation on her own, or something. But, from what you’re saying, that doesn’t seem to be the case. Now that I think about it, Asuka's behavior in HA is consistent with this setting. That's why she was feeling so down after teaming up with Shinji and Ayanami to defeat the 8th angel. Shikinami grew up in an environment in which, if you are not "useful" all the time, you're "out". That's sad.

By the way, I forgot to thank you for sharing your thoughts on the ending. I had already read your interpretation, but I was curious to know if your mind would change after watching the movie again. A sizeable amount of viewers seem to have different opinions on the subject and they are all fun to read! Anyway, "thanks" hahaha!
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Re: Clarifications upon second viewing

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Postby ElMariachi » Sun Apr 11, 2021 1:06 pm

View Original PostBernardoCairo wrote:Oh, I see what you're saying. It makes sense for Asuka to know what's going on. It raises the stakes of what we are about to see. From your description, this whole sequence seems to be indescribably miserable (I imagine they opted for a "lifeless" color palette while working with it). I never thought Asuka didn't know that she was fighting other clones. However, I wasn't sure if anyone had explicitly said that to her. I imagined she could have deduced parts of the situation on her own, or something. But, from what you’re saying, that doesn’t seem to be the case. Now that I think about it, Asuka's behavior in HA is consistent with this setting. That's why she was feeling so down after teaming up with Shinji and Ayanami to defeat the 8th angel. Shikinami grew up in an environment in which, if you are not "useful" all the time, you're "out". That's sad.

What I wonder is if she already knows in Ha that Rei is a clone, because if it's the case, then that put her interactions with Rei in Ha under a very different light.
Still, "congrats" to Anno to have managed to make NTE!Asuka's backstory even more horrible than NGE!Asuka (who already had the most horrible backstory among the pilots).
Avatar: THE HIGHEST OF ALL HIGHS WE AAAAAAAAAARE!!!
Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger


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