CGI in the rebuild films.

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition").
The third installment debuted in Japan on November 17, 2012.

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CGI in the rebuild films.

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Postby EvangelionGodMode » Fri Oct 24, 2014 6:26 pm

NGE had some of the best animation for its time and whats more impressive is how they did it with the limited budget they had. Now Anno is using the new technology of today and perfecting the great animation of Evangelion. I guess what im trying to ask is do you approve of all the cgi in the new rebuild films or would of rather their be more drawn out scenes? IMO i think Eva is one of the few franchises that uses cgi right and doesn't use too much to the point where its not creative.
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Postby Mr. Tines » Fri Oct 24, 2014 6:31 pm

The uprated Ramiel was the thing that Jo did right (even if it lost the bit where the the beams crossed).
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Postby Nuclear Lunchbox » Fri Oct 24, 2014 7:43 pm

I think the CG in the new movies is executed quite well-- even when it's evident, I feel that it's blended in well enough that it looks good next to everything else.

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Fri Oct 24, 2014 8:43 pm

I don’t think apparent CGI in animation is a bad thing. Everyone here needs to watch Mamoru Oshii’s The Sky Crawlers to see a filmmaker intentional make clear differences between the CGI aesthetics and the traditional animation aesthetics. Both are beautiful and I wouldn’t have the film any other way.

To be nit-picky on the nit-pickiness of the CGI in NTE (and most hand-drawn animations), most of the complaints about CGI in traditional animation is that it’s too fluid compared to the choppier hand-drawn animations. But in my opinion, we’ve seen this same issue when it came to the fluid camera pans in animation compared to the animated characters themselves. The camera movements were always more fluid than the character animations, and most of the time the background places themselves even looked different stylistically from the animated character in front of the background plates.

As a small and really nit-picky 8-year-old child I first noticed the differences between the looks and movements of the characters compared to the looks and movements of the background plates and camera pans when I saw Bambi. I noticed that the camera pans were much more fluid than some of the animated characters, and that the forest that Bambi lived in didn’t have the same outlines around the trees and rivers that Bambi and the rest of the animals had to define their bodies. And that got on my nerves. A LOT. But after a while I just got used to the fact that there are discrepancies—even intentional ones—between the characters in the foreground and the trees in the background. I even got used to the fact that the camera pans were much more fluid than the hand drawn animations. As a result when CGI came around in hand-drawn animation, I simply realized that it was sharing almost the exact same discrepancies between it and the characters that the background plates and camera movements have had since the dawn of elaborate feature-length hand-drawn animation.

But a lot of children just grew up watching animation without ever thinking of why the backgrounds look different from the characters or why the camera movements are more fluid than the character movements. As a result a lot of people didn’t think to realize these movement discrepancies in animation until CGI came along and reintroduced the same movement and detail discrepancies in a way that they weren’t used to seeing in animation. Then and only then did the issue of aesthetic and movement discrepancies come up when discussing CGI in traditional animation, most bashing it simply because “it looked different.”

But to me the same harsh difference between the movement of the camera pans and the movement of the characters in animation is shared with the harsh differences between the movements of the CGI creatures and the hand-drawn characters in most anime. In fact, NTE does one better than most in that it cuts the frame-rate of the animation ever so slightly to help it blend a bit better with the hand-drawn animation. (It’s not a one-to-one match, but it helps nonetheless.)

And since I grew up having to deal with the fact that the forests in Bambi didn’t have the outlines that the animal characters has and the fact that the camera movements in the movie were a bit more fluid than the character animations, I now have a better time just letting the differences the CGI and the hand drawn animations just exist in the same movie without even feeling the need to address it. In my mind a lot of the CGI falls int he same category of movement and detail discrepancies that animation background plates and camera pans have always been in for me as a really picky child. And because if that I can just let them intermingle in the same film without a single thought. I fact, I now think that they should intermingle without people giving a second thought about it. Just so long as the show is properly animated—which means to “breathe life” into the characters and environment—then the animation has done it’s job successfully, regardless of how noticeable the CGI or the background plates may or may not be compared to the character animation.

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Postby Ray » Fri Oct 24, 2014 8:59 pm

Anyone here seen the Korean Anime Film Wonderful Days? That blended CGI and hand drawn animation together so seamlessly I couldn't tell which was which.
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Postby SolidEye » Fri Oct 24, 2014 11:39 pm

I don't really like the CGI, but I don't mind it either, though I have to point out to the AAA Wonder scene.
That was just horrendous to look at. Just those CGI AT-Field particles and the hole scene as a whole just doesn't make any sense...
Well the CGI on the EVAs looked actually pretty good, even though they were normally animated in 3.33 for the most part, I did not even noticed when they changed between CGI and hand drawn animation.

Studio Khara did a great job and you have to give them credit for that, but I highly doubt, that they will ever be able to create such esthetics such as in EoE if they'd based most parts on CGI.

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Postby robersora » Sat Oct 25, 2014 5:37 am

In my opinion the CGI was integrated very well, especially Ramiel and all of Q were fantastic to look at. The only thing which bothered me was the shot in 2.0, when Sahamquiel transformed while falling. That looks so cheap, throws me out of the movie every time, and I wish they would remake that few seconds of film.
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Postby Giji Shinka » Sat Oct 25, 2014 7:07 am

NTE's CG is excellent in my opinion, very pleasing to look at.
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Postby Justacrazyguy » Sat Oct 25, 2014 9:27 am

I don´t like it. I can tolerate it, like I did the Space Battleship Yamato 2199 CG, but I simply cannot bring myself to like it.
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Postby EvangelionGodMode » Sat Oct 25, 2014 3:10 pm

I honestly can say i like it a lot so far. Ramiel was definitely an awesome improvement from the original series. I don't think i will ever take cgi over drawn animations though because cgi jus seems lifeless sometimes, especially if too much of it is used.
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Postby Mbryo » Sun Oct 26, 2014 1:21 am

The Shamshel scene wasn't really animated very well, but I loved Ramiel, and the Sahaquiel scene in 2.22 was awesome. The Wunder in Q was a bit awkward.....but fine, I guess.

I know some people don't like it, but my opinion is that it's almost impossible for big-scale animation to not use CG. Especially Eva. It looks more natural, and if it blends well, CG works better in most scenes.
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Postby Sgt. Griff » Sun Oct 26, 2014 4:05 am

I hate the CGI. It was really cool with Ramiel and again really cool with the Sahaquiel sequence, but after an entire movie which was almost entirely CG it just feels lazy and overdone. Plus it just looks weird and throws me off.

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Postby Rosenakahara » Sun Oct 26, 2014 4:32 am

I actually really love the cgi in NTE, anno did go slightly overboard in 3.0 (the wunder looks a bit.....off) but overall its awesome
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Postby ElMariachi » Sun Oct 26, 2014 5:27 am

I wonder if making the AAA Wunder in full CGI and make it look a bit off wasn't completely intentional from Khara, you know to hammer the strangeness of that ship and the situation as a whole?
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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Sun Oct 26, 2014 5:49 am

^ The use of CGI on the AAA Wunder was more for the sake of cinematography than anything else. The camera orbiting the bridge in 360 degrees was needed as a slow visual reveal that this isn't Nerv's headquarters anymore. (It might even be an Angel's core, but that's a topic for another thread.)

Again, I see both the use and movement discrepencies of CGI as similar to background plates and camera pans in traditional animation, and that camera shot proves that beyond a shadow of a doubt. And since I got over this movement and visual discrepancy of background pales and camera pans when I was 8, seeing this discrepancy's evolution into CGI seemed natural and sensible to me. I didn't even think too much about it.

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Postby robersora » Sun Oct 26, 2014 6:43 am

View Original PostSgt. Griff wrote: but after an entire movie which was almost entirely CG it just feels lazy


:lol:
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Postby Rodeo » Sun Oct 26, 2014 8:17 am

So and so. In scenes where the camera moving through an environment, like the conveyor belts in 1.11, it looks pretty decent, sahaquiel looked pretty sweet too. Not a fan of most of the other stuff though, I hate when they use it for things like cars and background extras, worse yet, the Evas themselves.
Over the years I've come to the conclusion that I don't hate I hate cel-shading, whatever strengths come with the CG medium are completely downplayed in favor of crummy fake-2D. I'd be fine with the influx CG heavy anime if more creators including Anno took a page out of Mamoru Oshii's book. While I certainly prefer the full 2D look of the first movie, Ghost in the Shell Innocence is nonetheless as example of an anime that employs CG in a way that enhances the visuals as opposed to feeling like a shortcut. Another good example is Metropolis. Of course these are both big budget theatrical releases, but so are the Rebuild films.

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Postby Rosenakahara » Sun Oct 26, 2014 12:05 pm

View Original PostSgt. Griff wrote:but after an entire movie which was almost entirely CG it just feels lazy


cant believe i missed this, were we watching the same movie? to get CGI to be that fluid someone had to be working day and night on that model and making sure everything checked out ok, no part of that movie visually wise was lazy
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Postby Nuclear Lunchbox » Sun Oct 26, 2014 12:18 pm

View Original PostSgt. Griff wrote:I hate the CGI. It was really cool with Ramiel and again really cool with the Sahaquiel sequence, but after an entire movie which was almost entirely CG it just feels lazy and overdone. Plus it just looks weird and throws me off.

Suit yourself, mate-- that Zeruel battle was glorious. :lol: And Tunniel was kinda cool...

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Sun Oct 26, 2014 12:34 pm

View Original PostRodeo wrote:Of course these are both big budget theatrical releases, but so are the Rebuild films.

Rebuild doesn’t have the major studio backing that Metropolis or Innocence had. Also, the only real difference between the CGI renderings is that NTE’s is cel-shaded, while the others aren’t, making their use more prominent in the series as opposed trying to mingle in with the rest of the visual style, keeping a consistent look and feel about the picture.


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