Humanity after instrumentality: evolved or screwed?

[tehprognoob]

and it would be hilarious if you're distracted during the process of recreation...

[Bagheera]

and it would be hilarious if you're distracted during the process of recreation...

Bah. People are too liberal in their interpretation of Yui's lines in this regard. You can come back if your sense of self is strong enough; that's as far as it goes. You don't get to redesign yourself to suit your whims.

(why's Asuka dressed like a pilot? Because that's how she died, duh. Why's she got bandages? Because she was wounded when she died. No more wounds, but the bandages are a reminder that they were there.)

Don't make shit more complicated than it needs to be, basically.

[Zan]

Don't make shit more complicated than it needs to be, basically.

Agreed. A major pitfall of mine when analyzing poetry in high school was looking at things too deeply (I sucked at analyzing poetry), and I suppose that applies to NGE as well. If you look too deep you begin making false conclusions.

[supershinjiasukashipper]

Well that's there problem isin't it?

People with big egos will come back as attractive as they think they are, so I think it's an acceptable tradeoff.

So I will be so sexy women are magnnetically attracted to me!? Sweet!
On topic now, I agree with the final conclusion people come back the way they were, because if that were any different Asuka may have come back in a plugsuit without missing sleeves.

[TheLobe]

of course it's not forward in evolution. they call it primordial soup. Meaning it is where evolution started.

[liquidus118]

Agreed. A major pitfall of mine when analyzing poetry in high school was looking at things too deeply (I sucked at analyzing poetry), and I suppose that applies to NGE as well. If you look too deep you begin making false conclusions.

Gah! Don't get me started on over-analysing poetry! My Eng Lit class is basically trying to teach me that being completely inchorent and random is how to make a deep, meaningful poem. Because gawping at a random bunch of disjointed words for 20 minutes to then realise the poet may or may not to be critiquing anything from feminism to to the current political climate to their ex-wife is TOTALLY worthwhile reading.

Anyway, on topic:
If we're talking EoE's ending then I'd say pretty screwed if not many people return to human form. Kinda makes me think of a Lord of the Flies scenario, just with the added danger of (presumably) most people being adults and both genders being present.

If we're talking everyone being smushed together in a big ol' egg I'd say that it would be heaven for some people, and not too great for others. That's presuming anyone had retained enough self to actually have an opinion on the matter, though.

[DoubleZeva]

Gah! Don't get me started on over-analysing poetry! My Eng Lit class is basically trying to teach me that being completely inchorent and random is how to make a deep, meaningful poem. Because gawping at a random bunch of disjointed words for 20 minutes to then realise the poet may or may not to be critiquing anything from feminism to to the current political climate to their ex-wife is TOTALLY worthwhile reading.

This applies double for NGE fandom.

Supposedly when NGE was first airing, some people came to the conclusion that Misato had shot Kaji. When Anno found out he was shocked, and quickly re-arranged the timing of some scenes to avoid this supposed >implication

EGF could learn from this anecdote.

[liquidus118]

This applies double for NGE fandom.

Supposedly when NGE was first airing, some people came to the conclusion that Misato had shot Kaji. When Anno found out he was shocked, and quickly re-arranged the timing of some scenes to avoid this supposed >implication

EGF could learn from this anecdote.

It got especially annoying when she was banging on about how the word "Said" in a poem was repeated to signify the dicothomy of action and in-action. Despite the fact that the poem followed the structure "Blah blah blah" said x to y. "Blah blah blah" said a to b. Which would suggest to a simple-minded person like me that it is used because...Something was just said by someone.

Anywho, I'll leave that rant for my indifferent Eng Lit class when the teacher's out the room.

I think Eva does sometimes suffer from over-analysis, but I'd say this is because it's genuinely good and has genuine depth to it that's worth investigating. And after this many years people are going to have thought of stuff Anno hadn't.

Regarding the belief that Misato shot Kaji, I'd say it's sort of understandable. After all we see Kaji get shot, the screen blacks out and then we see Misato's door closing as she arrives home. It probably wouldn't make any sense in terms of her having an obvious reason but I can see why people might think that this implicated her in his shooting (Not to mention that just before that she got her stuff back and the first thing she took was her gun). I'd say it was more meant to say "Yyyyup. That closes the door to Misato's heart." Or something along those lines.

[Azathoth]

Regarding the belief that Misato shot Kaji, I'd say it's sort of understandable.

The only people who thought that are those who thought that every loose end needs to be tied up by a named character that we see on screen (the same people who seriously argue that the MPEs have the souls of Class 2-A) and the people who paid more attention to cinematography than the actual plot. Nerv no longer cares about Kaji, he's done everything they need him to. On the other hand, he just broke into a Seele secure facility and stole their best chance of figuring out exactly what the hell's going on. Which of these two organizations wants him dead?

[liquidus118]

The only people who thought that are those who thought that every loose end needs to be tied up by a named character that we see on screen (the same people who seriously argue that the MPEs have the souls of Class 2-A) and the people who paid more attention to cinematography than the actual plot. Nerv no longer cares about Kaji, he's done everything they need him to. On the other hand, he just broke into a Seele secure facility and stole their best chance of figuring out exactly what the hell's going on. Which of these two organizations wants him dead?

People thought that the MPE's have 2-A's souls in them? That'd be....Entirely pointless in every way.

[Azathoth]

People thought that the MPE's have 2-A's souls in them? That'd be....Entirely pointless in every way.

There's a deleted scene from EoE that supposedly mentions that Touji and Kensuke are in Germany (where several of the MPEs were being constructed). But yes, it's entirely unnecessary and far from the most ludicrous demonstration of "all loose ends must be connected".

[Bagheera]

There's a deleted scene from EoE that supposedly mentions that Touji and Kensuke are in Germany (where several of the MPEs were being constructed). But yes, it's entirely unnecessary and far from the most ludicrous demonstration of "all loose ends must be connected".

Wait, why the devil would those two go to Germany? In the best case scenario Asuka would wind up going back there to torment them.

[Mr. Tines]

Wait, why the devil would those two go to Germany?

That wasn't answered, but the context is here -- http://forum.evageeks.org/viewtopic.php?p=46756#46756

[tehprognoob]

Wait, why the devil would those two go to Germany? In the best case scenario Asuka would wind up going back there to torment them.

well, i think that people, especially none-critical/casual fans, just want to tie up loose ends; it feels comfortable knowing the fate of each character. Coincidences such as harpy!2A are perfect for doing that, despite being utterly, as Azathoth said, ludicrous.

(for example, the entire cast of charles dickens's Great Expectations gets tied up neatly, either shipped off to other characters or killed. it seems very artificial and unrealistic, but it keeps a wide-eyed audience happy. after all, havent we all asked, "wait, so what happened to him/her/it?" once or twice?)

[Bagheera]

That wasn't answered, but the context is here -- http://forum.evageeks.org/viewtopic.php?p=46756#46756

That deleted scene...I'm absolutely baffled. I mean, they were all gone in ep 24, so why would we get this after the masturbation scene (and talk about fucking with pacing, sheesh). It makes no sense.

And again, why Germany? I don't get it. I can see where the lunatics are coming from, if the MPEs were built there, since there's really no reason to send the kids there. But of course, there's no reason to think they'd be any more suitable than any other group of schmucks, so.

[BiQ]

Closer back to topic:

Actually, now that I think about it… to give humanity a choice, was it actually necessary for Shinji to re-embody himself from the sea of LCL? (no, that wasn't his only or even primary motivation for doing it, but anyway) Wasn't instrumentality already halted at that point, making everyone's souls still floating around keep their individuality? For some reason, I have always linked the halting of instrumentality to his decision to re-embody, but after watching the relevant part of EoE again, I'm not so sure about it any more...

What actually happens at the moment Lilith's throat gets sliced open the very first time?

[Bagheera]

Actually, now that I think about it… to give humanity a choice, was it actually necessary for Shinji to re-embody himself from the sea of LCL? (no, that wasn't his only or even primary motivation for doing it, but anyway) Wasn't instrumentality already halted at that point, making everyone's souls still floating around keep their individuality? For some reason, I have always linked the halting of instrumentality to his decision to re-embody, but after watching the relevant part of EoE again, I'm not so sure about it any more...

I doubt it was necessary, but if he's willing to go so far as to give humanity that choice I'm hard-pressed to see why he wouldn't make it himself.

[Azathoth]

What actually happens at the moment Lilith's throat gets sliced open the very first time?

It seems to be associated with Shinji and Rei's cowgirl conversation - Shinji's line "But this isn't it...this isn't right" specifically. I can't actually rewatch at the moment to make sure, but I seem to recall that right after Rei defines reality for Shinji, the live-action sequence ends and we cut straight (lol) to GNR's decapitation. Anno elects not to intercut this latter part with the conversation Rei and Shinji are actually having about it, leaving the audience in some confusion: obvious the dream has ended, a return to reality has occurred, but it's not clear who caused it or why until Shinji and Rei talk it over a minute or so later, after all the pretty blood-splattering has happened.

[tehprognoob]

head=mind=soul=> neck=connection of soul 2 body?
cutting lilith neck=cutting her soul off from the body of humanity along with her active control=giving humanity a choice=the conversation, maybe?
just a quick thought while on the bus...

[supershinjiasukashipper]

head=mind=soul=> neck=connection of soul 2 body?
cutting lilith neck=cutting her soul off from the body of humanity along with her active control=giving humanity a choice=the conversation, maybe?
just a quick thought while on the bus...

Interesting conept. I need to see my old history professor to see if she can shed any light on these views, we are still working on the origin of the names SEELE and GEHERIN.
We suspect the second one is norse in origin.