One person's wish, but whose?

[pwhodges]

This caught my eye:

In 2, when Shinji is initiating an impact, Ritsuko mentions Eva is breaking through it's limitations, returning to its true form, and changing into condensed energy, all to grant the wish of one person(not labelled but implied to be Shinji).

So, what if it's not Shinji's wish? Two possibilities: Yui, whose motives in Rebuild are unknown; or Gendou, who outright said he planned it!

Or is it obviously just Shinji, as you'd think, and anything else is overthinking?

[robersora]

I think it's overthinking. Yui clearly goes into god mode to fulfil the wish of her son.

[unitM]

I actually think he has a point.

Consider this. Ritsuko, with the wish line, was very likely referring to Shinji. Obviously, from what she saw, 01 was digging for Rei. 01 went berserk because in part Shinji had a great drive to save Rei. This was noticeable to any observer.

Ritsuko was an observer, so she'd bring this up. But it's very possible that 01 was obeying multiple wishes, and not just the wish of Shinji.

It's pretty clear Gendou had a doing in NTI. We also know that Gendou has a way of communicating with Yui in ways foreign to us. There is a possibility that Yui knew the instruction, and that she carried out not only Shinji but Gendou's wishes. Wishes don't have to be mutually exclusive, especially if Shinji was lined up to create NTI.

In any event, I'd honestly only go as far to say Gendou or Shinji. And even then, we don't have any real evidence that 01 was following Gendou's wishes. I think it's certainly a possibility, but for the most part, I think the comment was directed at Shinji.

@robersora, 01 went berserk for Shinji, but that doesn't mean that it was only Shinji. Plus, I think the Rei/Shinji pairing also had a lot to do with the whole apocalypse event. Anno uses a lot of Freudian symbology and I think there is a lot to be said about the Oedipus complex and Shinji's own libido status at the time of the berserk.

[ElMariachi]

We also know that Gendou has a way of communicating with Yui in ways foreign to us.

Errrr... no. From where do you pulls that from?

[FreakyFilmFan4ever]

It's probably just Shinji's wish. Though, Gendo (and maybe Yui) probably sees that to a different advantage.

[unitM]

Gendou talks a giant eyeball-less frame of Yui, and refers to it as Yui, in Q. Before that, in 2, just before Shinji returns to NERV HQ to pilot the eva(in the fight leading up to NTI), Gemdou asks Fuyu to watch things, supposedly to go talk to Yui(he expresses frustration about Yui not following his orders just before this). It certainly seems like he's contacting Yui, and Anno gives no direction about Gendou being outright insane.

[BC Baron]

From where I'm standing, it's a bit of a tough call to make. Ultimately, I believe Gendo was the one who wanted Unit-01 to become self aware, thus achieving further progress in the pursuit of his own scenario (consequences be damned) before SEELE could get there ahead of him.

However, I think he manipulated Yui (right along with just about everyone else) into granting this wish for him. After all, just a few minutes prior, we see Unit-01/Yui rejecting the dummy plug. Doesn't this qualify as a form of defiance directed against Gendo and at least suggest that Yui does not share his goals?

It would appear that Yui went beserk and initiated god mode at the end of 2.22 for the sake of Shinji's desire to rescue Rei. Then again, if she were truly devoted to the concept of helping her son, maybe she could've paid attention to his screams during the Bardiel battle, made the decision to ignore the dummy system's instructions a bit earlier and actually assist in an attempt to save Asuka. Unfortunately, Yui seems to be rather selective about when she is or is not willing to bend/break the rules and spare her son's sanity.

[Reichu]

Well, unless resuming Second Impact was part of what Shinji wanted -- an idea that most people will fight tooth and nail -- it's hard to reconcile everything that Eva-01 is doing with the notion that it's on behalf of one person's wish. Might as well all be Yui's wish, and Shinji is getting so much feedback from her that he believes it's something he wants, too. :p I'll take that idea about as seriously as the more popular ones unless the last movie gives a better idea of what the hell was going on.

Gendou talks a giant eyeball-less frame of Yui, and refers to it as Yui, in Q.

The script calls it a giant Rei head, and indeed it has Rei's haircut rather than Yui's.

[unitM]

Well, unless resuming Second Impact was part of what Shinji wanted -- an idea that most people will fight tooth and nail -- it's hard to reconcile everything that Eva-01 is doing with the notion that it's on behalf of one person's wish. Might as well all be Yui's wish, and Shinji is getting so much feedback from her that he believes it's something he wants, too. :p I'll take that idea about as seriously as the more popular ones unless the last movie gives a better idea of what the hell was going on.


The script calls it a giant Rei head, and indeed it has Rei's haircut rather than Yui's.

and Gendou called it Yui.

I understand what the script called for it as. But Gendou directly and without any miscommunications spoke to the head and referred to it as Yui.

@Baron, that's a tough call, now that you mention it. In the original series, I think Yui also rejected the Dummy, but was cooperative later on.

[FreakyFilmFan4ever]

I understand what the script called for it as. But Gendou directly and without any miscommunications spoke to the head and referred to it as Yui.

Gendo called Unit 01 “Yui” in a more direct fashion in Ha. In Q he seemed as though he were referring to someone more distant from him than where the giant head was standing. (Almost as though it were a callback to that scene in Ha where Rei asks Gendo if he wants to have dinner with her and Shinji, and is reminded of Yui in the process. Here in Q he also sees Rei’s head, and is reminded of Yui.)

Also, if that giant white head was Yui’s one must first theorize and assume the process of how they got her outside of Unit 01, turned her back into a human form, and made her swell up to Lilith-sized proportions. (And the best conclusion is the one that requires the fewest assumptions, so that rules that possibility out for the time being.)

[UrsusArctos]

So, what if it's not Shinji's wish? Two possibilities: Yui, whose motives in Rebuild are unknown; or Gendou, who outright said he planned it!

Maybe you're on to something here. After all, "Bring Ayanami back!" could just as well refer to Yui by her Rebuild name, Yui Ayanami. And that's Gendo's wish, all right!

Of course, that raises all kinds of questions about just how far sentient Yui is as the "control system" of Eva-01 and if she interpreted Shinji's wish to get Rei back to Gendo's wish to get Yui back in her old body. If it were Gendo's wish and not Shinji's that was behind 3I, Shinji isn't to blame except as an unwitting tool.

All according to plan, I must say.

[FreakyFilmFan4ever]

^ Dude, I didn’t even realize the whole Ayanami correlation in Ha until you posted that.

Effing Eva constantly making me rethink everything about effing Eva...

[unitM]

FFF in this instance I don't think one needs to theorize anything. The fact is, Gendou was talking to Yui, and Anno has not given us any evidence that he is batshit hallucinating. Yes, the are questions surrounding the fact that Gendou was addressing Yui, but that does not mean that he was not addressing her.

[FreakyFilmFan4ever]

^ I didn't know anyone would confaite an establishing visual queue with a hallucination.

[AuraTwilight]

You know, Gendo can address Yui in his dialog without communicating her or even facing a representation of her and not be crazy. Like...sometimes people just sort of talk to people who are gone as an emotional mechanism. Especially people like Gendo, who are completely unable to accept loss and scheme to become God in order to get them back or whatever.

He was watching his plan unfold, and in so doing started speaking to Yui in his personal monologue as a framing device for his thoughts. That's all it is.

[unitM]

You know, Gendo can address Yui in his dialog without communicating her or even facing a representation of her and not be crazy. Like...sometimes people just sort of talk to people who are gone as an emotional mechanism. Especially people like Gendo, who are completely unable to accept loss and scheme to become God in order to get them back or whatever.

He was watching his plan unfold, and in so doing started speaking to Yui in his personal monologue as a framing device for his thoughts. That's all it is.

That's valid point but not entirely true. It could be either case really. Anno hasn't given us direction either way. It could just be Gendo ominously narrating to the air, you're right. but I personally still think he's speaking to Yui, and not just speaking aloud.

[Sachi]

That's valid point but not entirely true.

Why not?

[AuraTwilight]

That's valid point but not entirely true. It could be either case really. Anno hasn't given us direction either way. It could just be Gendo ominously narrating to the air, you're right. but I personally still think he's speaking to Yui, and not just speaking aloud.

Please support your argument, then. And explain why my point is not true.

Counterpoint to your argument: Gendo being able to communicate with Yui at his leisure undermines his apparent motive to reunite with her properly through apocalyptic events, and it makes Gendo less human in his feelings, goals, and behavioral mannerisms. Talking to people who are gone as an emotional coping mechanism is a thing grieving people do literally all the time, every day, of human existence.

Talking to magical ghost wives and getting an answer and/or knowing you're being heard and able to collaborate with them? SIGNIFICANTLY removes Gendo's emotional state from the human experience.

[unitM]

Please support your argument, then. And explain why my point is not true.

Counterpoint to your argument: Gendo being able to communicate with Yui at his leisure undermines his apparent motive to reunite with her properly through apocalyptic events, and it makes Gendo less human in his feelings, goals, and behavioral mannerisms. Talking to people who are gone as an emotional coping mechanism is a thing grieving people do literally all the time, every day, of human existence.

Talking to magical ghost wives and getting an answer and/or knowing you're being heard and able to collaborate with them? SIGNIFICANTLY removes Gendo's emotional state from the human experience.

My point to my above argument was to admit that my point may not be true, but his neither. If you'd like though, I can address your argument.

Gendo being able to communicate with Yui at his leisure

That's a blatant jump to conclusions on your part. I did not state that it was something he could casually do whenever he wanted to; you did. Assuming he does and has communicated with Yui, who knows how he actually does it. If Yui's dead, there would likely be some magic involved. You're forgetting that we've already seen a boy visually jump through the metaphysical barriers of a soul to pull his crush out; I don't think sending metaphysical love notes are out of our scope here. But that said, and just like Shinji pulling out Rei, it doesn't mean it's always an accessible option. In any event, it's a lesser point, and what I'd really like to say is my next point.

Fuyutsuki told Shinji that Gendo is willing to sacrifice his soul to get his wishes in Q. There is a possibility that parts of his humanity have already left him. You can't deny that; between the events where Fuyu said that and the end of Q, a lot of very strange things occurred. I am aware I can't really prove this, but it is something I've considered recently, even before reading your point on his humanity. In Q, Gendo also seems very distant from any sort of humanity too. He also has some unusual ornaments.

So be it: Gendo's more removed from the human experience. I'm certainly surprised, what with the good condition he's kept NERV HQ in, and how he avoids visiting an eyeless fungal head of his wife on occasion. The humanity and the cheer are certainly there.

And on your point of grieving: I agree, grief is grief. But Gendo did not speak to the Rei head in a grieving manner. I'm pretty sure grief needs to follow a certain pattern, or at least, a certain emotional state. Gendo was stone cold and serious. He had no issue watching the head explode too - he didn't even flinch. Would that classify as grief?

[xyz346]

Let's get back on topic boys.

For me I felt it was that it was the Eva's interpretation of Shinji's wish.