Gendo's Army

[ObsessiveMathsFreak]

One very puzzling comment by Asuka in 3.0, after she first sees Rei-Q, is that Rei must be "from an early lot of Anyami-types". This implies that there a) have been multiple "lots" of Ayanami's, and b) The "lots" have changed considerably in form, functions, or behaviour since that time. And let's not forget that Nerv have a generous supply of -- seemingly aware -- Rei heads in (bee-hive) storage.

Rei Heads with Staring eyes and bemused expressions  SPOILER: Show

[wkimg]File:Eva3-33 C0859 rei-heads.jpg[/wkimg]

I think Gendo or SEELE really do have an army of "Ayanami-types" -- whatever those happen to be. Whether Gendo is in control of them is another question entirely. Though a small army/staff of full grown Yui clones, crewing Gendo's Guf armada would make for quite the Grand Eva Finale.

I've got a theory, what if time flows differently in the Room of Guf? Like a couple months here is like a decade in there? Gendo could create an Army dozens of times bigger than Willes in a quarter of the time. Catching them off guard.

What if it's the other way around? Or what if time flows backwards!? The beginning and the end could really be one in the same! I'm being very serious by the way. And I've only just realised I'm actually seriously advocating a Time-Loop interpretation.

[Chuckman]

That's how it'll end. Shinji will have to defeat a Giant Rei Volton piloted by Gendo himself, called Oedipus Maximus.


It all makes sense now.

[ElMariachi]

1000 little Rei's with machine guns and RPG'S fighting an angel
and all of them dying a horrible death..
blood, everywhere
dead bodies litter the battlefield
All is lost

Well call me crazy, but I had a similar idea back when Q was released: neo-NERV mass cloned Rei and Kaworu after his dead to create an army of foot soldiers for the cases where sending Evas isn't possible (like retrieving an important asset that can't be done by basic MP-Evas and NS, nor Mark.09 since it was destroyed)
Those clones would be almost non-sentient (nothing more than drones made of flesh like the latest batch of Ayanami types are implied to be from Asuka's comment), stuffed with implants to augment their combat performances (since just for the drama, they all have the body of a 14-15 years old) and with suits that cover their whole body with added gasmask/faceplate with glowing goggles for extra-creepiness.

I got inspired by neo-Umbrella J'avos from Resident Evil 6 (I was playing that game at that time) and the Haven Troopers (aka FROGS) from Metal Gear Solid 4:

SPOILER: Show

Neo-Umbrella J'avo:


Haven Trooper/FROGS:

Just to have a kick-ass gun fight where Misato can shine like in EoE and Maya kick copious amounts of ass!

One very puzzling comment by Asuka in 3.0, after she first sees Rei-Q, is that Rei must be "from an early lot of Anyami-types". This implies that there a) have been multiple "lots" of Ayanami's, and b) The "lots" have changed considerably in form, functions, or behaviour since that time. And let's not forget that Nerv have a generous supply of -- seemingly aware -- Rei heads in (bee-hive) storage.

Aside that crazy theory above, I interpreted Asuka's words as Gendo using "new models" of Ayanami types, probably completely devoid of any capacity for sentience or individual thoughts, to be used as Mark.09's pilots, Mari's comment that Rei Q should eject soon or else be absorbed/become Mark.09 implies that that Eva has the nasty habit to try to kill its pilot by absorption.
They probably also have a very limited lifespan, the head being conserved once they pass away (since I doubt that Mark.09 left the head of its pilot when it absorb it) either for further researches and data collection to inject to the later models, or because Gendo and Fuyu are weird like that (both possibility being equally possible and not mutually exclusive)

And for capturing Shinji and trick him into thinking that the Rei in front of him is "his" Rei but acting weird for as long as possible, he activated one of the older version, the same that Rei II belonged to, who are capable of emotions and individuality. (maybe those version are better fighters too)

As for how Asuka recognized Rei's batch at first glance, maybe the newer versions have deformities that differentiate them from "normal" clones, or maybe Asuka's question was just rhetorical: that Rei showed signs of individuality before by deciding to act on her own and eject from Mark.09, ergo she's from the earlier batches that have the capacity to be individuals.

[Thomas68]

And for capturing Shinji and trick him into thinking that the Rei in front of him is "his" Rei but acting weird for as long as possible, he activated one of the older version, the same that Rei II belonged to, who are capable of emotions and individuality. (maybe those version are better fighters too)

This "fake" Rei could play with his emotions making him thinking that the "real" Rei is alive and fighting for NERV. She could convince him into joining NERV's army to fight against WILLE doing the same thing Kaworu did to Shinji: Gaining his trust and convincing him to fight on NERV's side.

The only difference is that Kaworu done this because he was tricked like Shinji was tricked too.

The Imposter Rei could do this being aware that she was misleading Shinji and trying to bring him into the army as Gendo would order her to do so.

[ElMariachi]

^
Wait, by "fake" Rei, you're talking about Rei Q or the unseen batches of Ayanami-types presumably without any capacity for individuality?
Anyway, Asuka's comment that Rei Q was from an early batch means that Gendo resorted for his new model since some time ago, and I really doubt that activating one of the earlier versions, that can think for themselves and thus eventually betray him, was pure coincidence, he activated that one for a reason, and aside Shinji, I don't see another reason, except if the earlier versions are better at piloting the Mark.09 and Gendo wanted to maximize his chances that the Wunder's raid and abduction of Shinji succeed.

Assuming the MP-Evas we see in the preview are being piloted by later versions of the A-Types, seeing how 8+2 completely trashes them to the ground and how Rei Q fared much better against Asuka, it support that theory.

[Thomas68]

^
Wait, by "fake" Rei, you're talking about Rei Q or the unseen batches of Ayanami-types presumably without any capacity for individuality?

Since I'm kinda lost about these Ayanami-types, I think it could be a Random Rei...

If Gendo could activate this Rei to kidnap him why couldn't activate one to say some things to him?

If I wrote something very non-sense to you, it's because I didn't quite understand the Ayanami-type thing.

[pwhodges]

Since I'm kinda lost about these Ayanami-types, I think it could be a Random Rei...

If Gendo could activate this Rei to kidnap him why couldn't activate one to say some things to him?

This is a new idea (to me), and rather interesting. I think the idea being proposed is that Gendou has the technique to mass produce Rei clones; that the early ones had a capacity for personality (which ReiQ shows to some extent), but not fully developed (for what is missing see my fanfic which this dovetails with nicely); and that the later ones (which we haven't seen, but it appears that Asuka is aware of) don't even have that capacity, and so presumably are in some way more mechanical. Thus he used the earlier type to contact Shinji, in the hope that she would show enough personality to draw him in, which she did initially - but after a while Shinji saw through it because she was still missing too much of the "original" Rei's personality.

[ElMariachi]

Thus he used the earlier type to contact Shinji, in the hope that she would show enough personality to draw him in, which she did initially - but after a while Shinji saw through it because she was still missing too much of the "original" Rei's personality.

That's what I mean, at which point it would be too late for Shinji since he was already in Gendo's hands.

As for the newer Ayanami-types, well we don't know anything about their capabilities, but it's possible that they are so primitive that they can't understand an order beyond "search and destroy" and thus wouldn't even be able to carry out the mission of abducting Shinji.

[Thomas68]

but it's possible that they are so primitive that they can't understand an order beyond "search and destroy" and thus wouldn't even be able to carry out the mission of abducting Shinji.

I believe those Ayanami-types would, in fact, understand orders beyond that...

They're human bodies that aren't individuals, but they aren't psychopatic soldiers that just want to watch the world burn.

[ElMariachi]

^
Like I said, for the moment we don't know about the capabilities of the later batches of A-Types, but there must be a reason why Gendo activated a Rei from an earlier batch, and I can only see two reasons for that: to successfully convince Shinji that she's "his" Rei and goad him to escape the Wunder with her, or because the later batches are too animalistic and primitive to carry out that mission. (note that those two reasons can overlap)

It's possible that Gendo fears so much to be betrayed that he made the newer version as little more than ravenous beasts like the Dummy System was in 2.0, having to reactivate a Rei from the older versions being a necessary risk in Gendo's eyes, and indeed once she was given a reason to do so, that Rei ditched him at the first opportunity she got.

[Thomas68]

^
Like I said, for the moment we don't know about the capabilities of the later batches of A-Types, but there must be a reason why Gendo activated a Rei from an earlier batch, and I can only see two reasons for that: to successfully convince Shinji that she's "his" Rei and goad him to escape the Wunder with her, or because the later batches are too animalistic and primitive to carry out that mission. (note that those two reasons can overlap)

It's possible that Gendo fears so much to be betrayed that he made the newer version as little more than ravenous beasts like the Dummy System was in 2.0, having to reactivate a Rei from the older versions being a necessary risk in Gendo's eyes, and indeed once she was given a reason to do so, that Rei ditched him at the first opportunity she got.

So, it's one Rei to bring Shinji and thousands to make WILLE a human slaughterhouse scene. That was the plan?

[ElMariachi]

^
Pretty much yes, now that he obtained a new Awakened Eva thanks to Shinji and got rid of SEELE and Kaworu, Gendo don't need WILLE anymore, so that giant army will probably serve to get rid of them to cover himself for the last phase of his plan, or maybe they'll be used as a very strong line of defense to protect Gendo during said last phase, forcing the Wunder and its troop to lead an assault like what we saw in the preview.

[Thomas68]

^
Pretty much yes, now that he obtained a new Awakened Eva thanks to Shinji and got rid of SEELE and Kaworu, Gendo don't need WILLE anymore

Pardon my ignorance, again...

WILLE was, in any sense, collaborating for Gendo's plans?

forcing the Wunder and its troop to lead an assault like what we saw in the preview.

More like Wunder getting destroyed and EVA 8+2 getting raped.

[Sachi]

WILLE was, in any sense, collaborating for Gendo's plans?

Not at all, not knowingly at least. Wille is openly against Gendo and his goals, but they are just as much victim of Gendo's machinations as everybody else. Gendo calculated them into his plans for Fourth Impact, and it seems as if he needed them there to do what they did. Now that they've unknowingly helped him, it's unclear whether or not they still have a purpose for Gendo and their future is uncertain.

[Thomas68]

Not at all, not knowingly at least. Wille is openly against Gendo and his goals, but they are just as much victim of Gendo's machinations as everybody else. Gendo calculated them into his plans for Fourth Impact, and it seems as if he needed them there to do what they did. Now that they've unknowingly helped him, it's unclear whether or not they still have a purpose for Gendo and their future is uncertain.

Gendo "Master of Puppets" Ikari

[airman4]

That's how it'll end. Shinji will have to defeat a Giant Rei Volton piloted by Gendo himself, called Oedipus Maximus.


It all makes sense now.

The giant eva 13 series in EoE were "piloted" by Rei and kaworu
I hope something similar

[ElMariachi]

Pardon my ignorance, again...

WILLE was, in any sense, collaborating for Gendo's plans?

To precise on what Sachi explained, Gendo needed WILLE for stopping Fourth Impact: SEELE put a back-up in the form of a second Impact Trigger for the case something happens to the other (maybe they suspected that Gendo would try some more treachery), so Gendo counted on his treachery with the spears to force Kaworu to sacrifice himself, and them to WILLE for completely stopping EVA-13 (and with it Fourth Impact) by ejecting or killing the remaining Impact Trigger, which is what Mari did.

So yeah, as you said Gendo "Master of Puppets" Ikari. At least Mari seems to have realized that everyone was manipulated by him.

[Sachi]

The giant eva 13 series in EoE were "piloted" by Rei and kaworu
I hope something similar

The Mass Production Eva series of EoE were piloted by Dummy Plugs based off of Kaworu (as opposed to Gendo's Dummy Plug based off of Rei). It doesn't really bear too much significance, other than showing that the Evas are autonomous.

So yeah, as you said Gendo "Master of Puppets" Ikari. At least Mari seems to have realized that everyone was manipulated by him.

Once Fourth Impact is stopped, IIRC, even Misato and Ritsuko seem a little suspicious of how smoothly things went in their favor. There is a least a cut of Misato staring off into the distance in deep contemplation while Ritsuko is speaking about the event.

[ElMariachi]

Once Fourth Impact is stopped, IIRC, even Misato and Ritsuko seem a little suspicious of how smoothly things went in their favor. There is a least a cut of Misato staring off into the distance in deep contemplation while Ritsuko is speaking about the event.

That's right, I forgot about that moment, although Mari is still the only one that realized that it was specifically Gendo who manipulated them (well, she had the advantage of being in the front row of the events while still being on the back to think about it calmly, unlike Asuka who was in the front-line), Misato and Ritsuko only have suspicions that something is fishy due to EVA-13 having weakened itself out of nowhere enough that Mari could reach it and deactivate it, but since apparently Mari was picked-up with her Eva, she's certainly fill them in as soon as she can.

[Thomas68]

I wonder who will have to deal with this army...

Shinji or WILLE?