Evangelion and Souls

[saintdane05]

Question: How can Mari and Asuka pilot so many Evas?

In the original series, and I quote from the wiki:The Evangelion has been imbued with the soul of its pilot's mother. Whether the soul or the pilot is chosen first is unknown. A pilot can easily synch only with a compatable [sic] soul.

Now, for most of Rebuild 2.0, this is obeyed, with each pilot sticking to an Eva. Shinji even comments that 01 reminds him of his own mother. The problem comes in around the Bardiel fight. Specifically, Asuka can now pilot Unit 03, without soul compatibility becoming an issue. Sure, we never found out the results do to the whole "Possession," thing, but we can assume that the Eva worked for her.

The real sticking point, however, is Mari. We first see her piloting Provisional Unit 05. If the standard synch rules applied, we would assume that is the soul of Mari's mother. However, much later, we see her pilot Unit 02, without any difficulty. In fact, she seems to know it better than Asuka (Using ZA BEASTO, for example).

Rebuild 3.0 is where things get even worse. Mari has yet another Eva, 08. We see her stick with 08 throughout the film, so that is fine. The problem now is Eva 05. Which one is Mari's mother? Eva 13 is even worse, with its Dual Pilot system.

This leads me to two conclusions:

* Souls are not need to create Evangelion (Unlikely, based on the comment Shinji made before the Sahaquiel fight

* Souls determine an Evangelion's Personality (IE, how it responds to the pilot, when it goes Beserk, ETC)


There is a separate theory about Mari, but that's for another thread.
Any help with this? It's been bothering me for a while now.

[ElMariachi]

We don't have any information about the mechanisms behind an Evangelion, but so far the fact all the pilots are seen piloting at least two different Evas seems to imply that in the Rebuild there isn't the need for a mother's soul in the core to make it function, and that EVA-01's case is exceptional.

[monitoradiation]

We don't have any information about the mechanisms behind an Evangelion, but so far the fact all the pilots are seen piloting at least two different Evas seems to imply that in the Rebuild there isn't the need for a mother's soul in the core to make it function, and that EVA-01's case is exceptional.

In 2.0 there's that scene when Ritsuko informed Asuka that her Eva-02 is being frozen, at the same time there's audio offscreen announcing that Eva-02 core swap is complete (or at least in progress), iirc. When you first hear it, Mari hasn't come into the scene so the audience will likely miss it (and I did too) but I think that's where the key part is.

In the Rebuilds, it seems like the pilots are bound to the cores, where the control mechanism is, not the Units themselves.

[saintdane05]

In the Rebuilds, it seems like the pilots are bound to the cores, where the control mechanism is, not the Units themselves.

I was thinking that as well. But it still doesn't explain the 05/08 problem, or the thing involving 13.

[monitoradiation]

I was thinking that as well. But it still doesn't explain the 05/08 problem, or the thing involving 13.

Good point - I kind of assumed that 05 wasn't a completed Unit since the lower extremities were more mechanical than they were like the other Eva units - which still doesn't explain the Eva's jaw thingy seconds before it blows up. And also, I assume if there was a core, Mari doesn't have time nor resources to retrieve it before departing for Japan.

13 is just ... I don't even. I want to forget about that Unit as fast as I can.

[Giji Shinka]

Or the thing involving 13.

Unit 13 is special and exception in so many aspects, so it's hard to say anything about it....

[ElMariachi]

In the Rebuilds, it seems like the pilots are bound to the cores, where the control mechanism is, not the Units themselves.

Problem is that following this theory, Mari's compatible core was inside Unit 05, which blew up, and EVA-02's core was frozen alongside the Eva, look at the scene when its descended in the vault, the core is on a big round casing hanging above the Eva and sealed with it. And even if the original core was swapped, it still probably ended in EVA-03, which ended corrupted by an Angel and utterly demolished by EVA-01.

What we hear talking about is about the configuration of the core, so the most likely is that you can program a "pattern" in the core(brainwaves and whatnot) which correspond to a designed pilot, and you can upload a new pattern for a new pilot.
That would explain how the pilots can go into any Eva at will.

EVA-01, having a human soul for a control system, is the only Eva which can't be reprogrammed, making it only controllable by Shinji and Rei(with heavy risks implied for the later, see Gendo and Fuyu's conversation in 1.0 just before operation Yashima)

[Gorbatschow]

I don't want to say bad writing, but ... bad writing ?

[Giji Shinka]

I don't want to say bad writing, but ... bad writing ?

I'm gonna wait for 4.0, but for now, let's just say that it's bad writing.

[Chuckman]

I don't want to say bad writing, but ... bad writing ?

Why is it bad? Considering all the logistical problems with the resident soul concept, it makes sense they'd abandon it in a condensed version of the story.

[monitoradiation]

Problem is that following this theory, Mari's compatible core was inside Unit 05, which blew up, and EVA-02's core was frozen alongside the Eva, look at the scene when its descended in the vault, the core is on a big round casing hanging above the Eva and sealed with it. And even if the original core was swapped, it still probably ended in EVA-03, which ended corrupted by an Angel and utterly demolished by EVA-01.

What we hear talking about is about the configuration of the core, so the most likely is that you can program a "pattern" in the core(brainwaves and whatnot) which correspond to a designed pilot, and you can upload a new pattern for a new pilot.
That would explain how the pilots can go into any Eva at will.

EVA-01, having a human soul for a control system, is the only Eva which can't be reprogrammed, making it only controllable by Shinji and Rei(with heavy risks implied for the later, see Gendo and Fuyu's conversation in 1.0 just before operation Yashima)

So, are you theorizing that, if there is a resident soul in an Eva's core (ie. Eva-01) it requires a specific pilot, whereas if the core doesn't (assuming that this is the case for Eva-02) then all that is required is some kind of core reprogramming to sync it with the pilot?

This would then mean that Kyoko in Rebuild has not been partially absorbed by Eva-02... I guess there goes Soryu's childhood traumas and why Shikinami is so different! haha

[Chuckman]

If the essence of the "person" in the core can be wiped away to accomodate a new pilot, then Gendo is awfully glib about murdering his wife's soul so Rei can pilot in 1.0.

[ElMariachi]

So, are you theorizing that, if there is a resident soul in an Eva's core (ie. Eva-01) it requires a specific pilot, whereas if the core doesn't (assuming that this is the case for Eva-02) then all that is required is some kind of core reprogramming to sync it with the pilot?

This would then mean that Kyoko in Rebuild has not been partially absorbed by Eva-02... I guess there goes Soryu's childhood traumas and why Shikinami is so different! haha

That's exactly my theory! It's reinforced by the fact that when Asuka self-destructed her Eva in Q, she said "Sorry, Nigouki", indicating that she doesn't know about a soul being in her Eva, and since I doubt that Misato or Ritsuko would hide that kind of information from their pilots, for me it means that Evas don't have a resident soul in Rebuild, except EVA-01.

So yes, if that means that Kyoko didn't lose her mind, confounded a doll for her daughter and hanged herself in front of Asuka, that would explain why Shikinami is more stable than Sorrhyu.

If the essence of the "person" in the core can be wiped away to accomodate a new pilot, then Gendo is awfully glib about murdering his wife's soul so Rei can pilot in 1.0.

You don't get what I mean, there isn't any essence in the core of the other Evas, just adjustment parameters to so a pilot can control its Evangelion, the only thing present in the core are data about the pilot's pattern. It's a machine that you set up with the profile of the pilot who will control it, like a driver to install a new device.

EVA-01 is different in that the resident soul makes any heavy adjustments impossible(or Gendo refuse said adjustment to not damage his wife's soul), and while superficial adjustment could be made(we hear Ritsuko orders to reboot Unit 01's core with Rei's data at the beginning of 1.0 when Shinji refused to pilot), it doesn't change that only pilots sharing Yui's blood can pilot Unit 01, leaving only Shinji and Rei(for being a clone of Yui), although Gendo and Fuyu sates that it's very risky to let Rei pilot it in 1.0, but we don't have the explication of why it's dangerous : is the risk of being rejected greater if it's Rei instead of Shinji? Did she have Lilith's soul and they fear that she gets absorbed inside it and wreck havoc, especially if 01 is made from Lilith's flesh like in NGE? Is there a risk that Yui notice that there is a clone of her existing and get pissed off?

[monitoradiation]

That's exactly my theory! It's reinforced by the fact that when Asuka self-destructed her Eva in Q, she said "Sorry, Nigouki", indicating that she doesn't know about a soul being in her Eva, and since I doubt that Misato or Ritsuko would hide that kind of information from their pilots, for me it means that Evas don't have a resident soul in Rebuild, except EVA-01.

Well to be fair; Soryu didn't know that Kyoko was in Eva-02 neither until EoE. Granted, 3.0!Ritsuko wouldn't have needed to hide that information from 3.0!Soryu, so at least that is in line with this hypothesis. UNLESS neither Ritsuko nor Misato know about it; which could be the case because Eva-02 was developed in Germany under another Eva program.

So yes, if that means that Kyoko didn't lose her mind, confounded a doll for her daughter and hanged herself in front of Asuka, that would explain why Shikinami is more stable than Sorrhyu.

Well, perhaps we'll see Kyoko make an appearance! That'd be AWESOME.

EDIT:

Thinking back. If configuring the core is all that was required to pilot the Eva, then WHY THE HECK DID YUI GO INTO EVA-01?!

[Chuckman]

In think we've already seen her make an appearance. From a certain point of view.

[monitoradiation]

In think we've already seen her make an appearance. From a certain point of view.

Well yeah, but I mean. Alive and well. Maybe she'll show up with like a honkin' huge Eva and be all like YODAWG SHIKINAMI, DRIVE THIS THING.

[Lord ikari shinji]

I have to say that the rebuild's logic is hot trash compared to NGE.

Anno really did destory and recreate the story of Eva sadly.

[Reichu]

In think we've already seen her make an appearance. From a certain point of view.

In NME? You're talking crazy talk, dawg.

[Chuckman]

In NME? You're talking crazy talk, dawg.

I was alluding to Asuka being a clone.

[monitoradiation]

I was alluding to Asuka being a clone.

Waitwut? Is this official or fanwankery? Because afaik isn't that something from the Manga (test tube baby?)

So confused right now...