Are we overanalyzing things?

[Reichu]

Ii'll give you an extention on your homework, now go to blockbuster

Who needs Blockbuster when they have the hive of scum and villainy known as the RIT DC++ hub?

[DatDude]

Very true though I use emule.

[Olin of Xephon]

I didn't realize we were talking about people who make Evangelion (or other works of fiction Star wars, Star Trek, Etc.) The center of their life.

I was just saying a little over analysis doesn't hurt anyone.

As long as it stays safely in the realm of "speculation" rather then crossing thline into "unhealthy obsession."

Then things can get VERY scary...

[chiefen]

The over-analysis came later Laughing when I did the calculations that confirmed my initial impression, that a 100-mile-tall human body collapsing would liberate roughly the same amount of potential energy as the kinetic energy from an impact by a 10km^3 asteroid impacting at 20km/s (a run-of-the-mill dinosaur-killer event).

(god it feels so wrong to talk about this)

Damn straight it does. I'm laughing out loud! Keep going.

[Hexon.Arq]

In the time that I've been subscribing to forums, I've been condensed from a lump of coal into an even denser lump of coal possessing otherwise identical properties. I am an advocate of the theoretical and much-encompassing Santa Claus when it comes to certain kinds of fiction, particularly those which possess a certain ethereal aura with regard to their presentation, however tangible their core ideas might be. That being said, in a (perhaps destructive) response to a metaphor cited elsewhere, it's one thing to try and solve a 5000 piece jigsaw puzzle; it's another to tear the puzzle's box to bits and declare that you have found more pieces. To be honest, I think that in all that I have seen debated, the puzzle has been completely assembled. What is left are spin-off thought tangents and oversight-rationalizations (or in some cases, unsight-rationalizations--there is such a thing as style; any other way and it would have sucked, that's all).

As I've drawn closer to the side of creation, I believe I'm beginning to understand the basis for the scorn thrust upon those who think certain things to no end. They are not wrong-doers by any measure, but it makes for a less hospitable environment for spouting ideas at whim; everything must have a meaning, and anything that doesn't will have one assigned. This will become a kind of dogma regarding how the pill is to be swallowed. If that be the case, one might as well not create anything involving at least some bit of complete fancy at all, or else take great care to assign significance to everything, lest it become the child of the community and not the creator.

Yeah, even I could taste the disdain in that one, but there's no altering its course. Let's just enjoy the sunset; out here it never ends, you know.

[Reichu]

If you think the people around here are bad, you should try listening to Greenfield and McCoy. Or reading Redmond.

[Hexon.Arq]

Well, the tragedy that is their analysis is a given. I was more referring to people with, you know, brains.

[Reichu]

Well, the tragedy that is their analysis is a given. I was more referring to people with, you know, brains.

So what exactly are you hoping people like me would stop doing...? Whatever it is, won't happen until I leave Planet Eva for good.

[Hexon.Arq]

Well, there's nothing I would want you to stop doing, per se, but I do tend to struggle with things like the importance of where Lilith's legs go when she turns into a space cloud...

I admire your ability to delve, which is why it can be frustrating to watch you count the dots in the print of the cereal box.

[Reichu]

No struggling necessary -- it's not important at all. Something doesn't have to be "important" for one to wonder about it, tho. :P

[Soluzar]

In the time that I've been subscribing to forums, I've been condensed from a lump of coal into an even denser lump of coal possessing otherwise identical properties. I am an advocate of the theoretical and much-encompassing Santa Claus when it comes to certain kinds of fiction, particularly those which possess a certain ethereal aura with regard to their presentation, however tangible their core ideas might be. That being said, in a (perhaps destructive) response to a metaphor cited elsewhere, it's one thing to try and solve a 5000 piece jigsaw puzzle; it's another to tear the puzzle's box to bits and declare that you have found more pieces. To be honest, I think that in all that I have seen debated, the puzzle has been completely assembled. What is left are spin-off thought tangents and oversight-rationalizations (or in some cases, unsight-rationalizations--there is such a thing as style; any other way and it would have sucked, that's all).

As I've drawn closer to the side of creation, I believe I'm beginning to understand the basis for the scorn thrust upon those who think certain things to no end. They are not wrong-doers by any measure, but it makes for a less hospitable environment for spouting ideas at whim; everything must have a meaning, and anything that doesn't will have one assigned. This will become a kind of dogma regarding how the pill is to be swallowed. If that be the case, one might as well not create anything involving at least some bit of complete fancy at all, or else take great care to assign significance to everything, lest it become the child of the community and not the creator.

Yeah, even I could taste the disdain in that one, but there's no altering its course. Let's just enjoy the sunset; out here it never ends, you know.

(NOT ANGRY) Why does it feel like you're trying to prove me right when you told me I was wrong, Hex? Why does it feel like that? :?

I'm not going to make the same mistake again, I promise, but I do reserve the right to ask these questions.

[Hexon.Arq]

(NOT ANGRY) Why does it feel like you're trying to prove me right when you told me I was wrong, Hex? Why does it feel like that?

I didn't take heed of any point, so you can't be right or wrong as far as I'm concerned. It makes it easier for me to say what I really feel. Besides, today is a different day; would it be so bad if you were becoming more right, and I more wrong? What good is my assurance to you?

And anyway, your puzzle metaphor stuck in my head. I got my answer in the shower this afternoon.

Do What You Will, remember?

[Soluzar]

(NOT ANGRY) Why does it feel like you're trying to prove me right when you told me I was wrong, Hex? Why does it feel like that?

I didn't take heed of any point, so you can't be right or wrong as far as I'm concerned. It makes it easier for me to say what I really feel. Besides, today is a different day; would it be so bad if you were becoming more right, and I more wrong? What good is my assurance to you?

Word games are fun, dude, but you did say I was wrong. To be blunt, I guess your assurance isn't anything I would strive for, but your (or anyone else's) disparagement is nothing to be enjoyed. :)

And anyway, your puzzle metaphor stuck in my head. I got my answer in the shower this afternoon.

I'm glad to hear it.

Personally, I still have some searching to do, but I'm glad you've found yours.

Do What You Will, remember?

I'm trying, but I hope you won't hold it against me if I keep asking questions about things other than Eva? Inquiring minds and alla dat...

[Hexon.Arq]

You were wrong in your assumption that I was pinning something on you. If the bullets are sprayed broadly enough, they'll hit the Pope if he's in the way. The gun, the trigger, and the finger squeezing it are all things which cannot be denied, but they can be ignored.

I hope you won't hold it against me if I keep asking questions about things other than Eva?

On the contrary; it would be a relief.

And you ought not feel disparaged by terms like "waste" and "bizzare". Remember that I can't be here if I'm not here. Bizzare has been my calling card (outwardly-assigned, of course; I hate people who insist that they're "kooky") ever since I gradually lost all sense of its meaning in any context other than those I can pull out of my ass when convenient. It doesn't help to be a grammatical as well as moral relativist, but it doesn't really hurt, either.

But if the topic poses a question, I'm not going to lie, and like you, I'm not going to disenfranchise myself by keeping quiet.

[Soluzar]

You were wrong in your assumption that I was pinning something on you. If the bullets are sprayed broadly enough, they'll hit the Pope if he's in the way. The gun, the trigger, and the finger squeezing it are all things which cannot be denied, but they can be ignored.

I wasn't lying when I smiled. Really. I'm just curious to know what is behind the words you write. It would seem you have picked a singularly unreceptive audience (with the exception of DatDude, perhaps) in the EvaMonkey forums, but then perhaps you prefer tilting at windmills.

I hope you won't hold it against me if I keep asking questions about things other than Eva?

On the contrary; it would be a relief.

I know where you're coming from, really I do. What's important to remember, though, is that despite my manner, which can be shockingly abrasive at times, I do keep this in perspective. On the other hand, as a pastime, it is directly related to my career (I'm a student right now, but excuse the term) and as such, perhaps involves my self-worth a little more than most people. Not because it is Eva, but because this is what I do.

That having been said, of course, I doubt my lecturers would entirely approve of the lack of intellectual rigor that I exhibit while working on this topic, but this is recreation, not work.

And you ought not feel disparaged by terms like "waste" and "bizzare". Remember that I can't be here if I'm not here.

Let me see if I've got this straight... As long as you are posting here, then I can feel entitled to take your comments with a pinch of salt, because you are still posting on an Eva site. Is that what you meant?

Bizzare has been my calling card (outwardly-assigned, of course; I hate people who insist that they're "kooky") ever since I gradually lost all sense of its meaning in any context other than those I can pull out of my ass when convenient. It doesn't help to be a grammatical as well as moral relativist, but it doesn't really hurt, either.

I must say that I think that the very word "kooky" was invented by Hollywood, and anyone willingly describing themselves as such should be incarcerated for their own protection and that of others. However, I too am regarded as "Bizarre", though this can come as no surprise to anyone who read even one of my posts.

But if the topic poses a question, I'm not going to lie, and like you, I'm not going to disenfranchise myself by keeping quiet.

It's a terrible trap to be in, you know. I do feel duty-bound to respond.

[ObsessiveMathsFreak]

Over analysing things? Yes we are. But should we not be?

Did the director intend for there to be deep and meaningful reason for every tiny facet of the show? No. Did he intend for there to be subtle clues in certain scenes that interelate to others over the course of the drama? Yes. Is EVERYTHING in Evangelion analysable to the extent that we put it under the microscope? No. So should we stop analysing things?

Consider for a moment that Anoo probably never considered very deeply exactly how the MAGI system works, or how Ireul hacked into it. The man is a writer, not a computer engineer. Does that mean we pass off the whole hacking scene as pure gibberish, or can we, on out own bat, attempt to construct a valid, logical explanation for what is going on in this scene technologically. The director might look at us as if we were crazy, but what's wrong with giving quasi-fantastical elements of the show a surer footing in reality.

I recall a recent debate on these boards about Bardiel, and whether Touji amnd/or his mother's minds were perhaps in conflict with Bardiel inside Unit-03 during episode #18. Did the director intend this? Maybe. If he didn't, should we stop debating it? I don't think so. Once the director has released his work into the world, people can make up their own minds about it.
At some stage during the discussion I believe I brought up the possibility that Bardiel may have been trying to reproduce or something. Now personally, i don't even think this ever crossed the minds of anyone in Gainaix, and they'd throw me out of a con if I brought it up. Nonetheless, are we not free to ponder this? If we find that it fits well into the framwork and/or imagery of the story at large, are we not free to include it in our interpretations?

What if Anno suddenly appeared in a puff of smoke declaring "No, no, no! Your missing the point! The whole point I was trying to make was that Shinji was in fact an Alien being and Asuka was the maverick cop trying to discover the truth that PenPen had covered up! Misato was a man, and Touji and kensuke were in fact the same person, and Shinji had just imagined them as being two people, because he was an Alien!"
Not that he would, but lets say he did. Well I'd nod my head and say, "That's what you intended the story to mean, however I took a slightly different perspective on matters"

The difference is unlikely to be this extreme. Difference are more likely to be over whether Asuka was callous or just obtuse, things like that.
What am I saying here?

OK, the director had a vision. He may not have been fully able to articulate that vision in the form of a TV show. His vision may have been in flux over the course of the production. His vision may have been diluted or mixed with the visions of others in the production. We do not see and hear the work of the director directly. We see the drawings of artists and the voices of actors working under his direction. Finally, we see the show through our own eyes, and further mixes the vision with our own thoughts, expieriences and theories.

I analyse Evangelion for fun, so that it makes sense to me. If Anno walks up to me and tells me that Ritsuko wasn't raped in episode #23, and that he never intended that anyone think she was, then I'll still hold this view, unless he gives me a better one. If he says he really never gave a danm how the dynamics of S^2 organ development worked, I'll still go on musing over it, not because I don't have respect for the director, but because I'm attempting for the work to make sense to me.

I've no doubt if say, Shakespeare came back and saw some of the things people had written about his plays, he'd disagree. but would that make these things wrong? Is the director's, or the production crews statements on ambiguous matters final once the work has been released into the wild?

Bahhh! I don't even know what i'm saying anymore. I'm off to ponder the reality of the apparitions in #26' now. If Anno arrives to tell me I'm on the wrong track... I'll think about it, but i'll probably finish up my analysis anyway.

[DatDude]

Bahhh! I don't even know what i'm saying anymore.

Well Im with you their, I don't know what your talking about.

I feel the message and power of the story are lost if you look at things to close and draw conclusions that are not their.

[Reichu]

I feel the message and power of the story are lost if you look at things to close and draw conclusions that are not their.

Then you're making assumptions about other people that aren't necessarily true.

[DatDude]

I feel the message and power of the story are lost if you look at things to close and draw conclusions that are not their.

Then you're making assumptions about other people that aren't necessarily true.

How so?

I'm just starting a view and sticking up for it when asked about it.

[Reichu]

You're basically making the blatantly unfair presumption that anyone who looks closer at the anime than you feel is appropriate is missing "the message and power of the story". This is bullocks.

Would it be fair of me to say "Anyone who gets hawt looking at Eva pr0n is missing the message and power of the story"? I think that statement would apply to you in some way, yes?

Appreciating the anime in full and desiring to deconstruct it are not mutually exclusive.