(Second) Evas vs. Angels Design Contest! (Afterthoughts)

Postby **NemZ** » Sat Jul 17, 2010 4:10 pm

The 'size' portion of the general data for this contest is rather hard to pin down, what with the evas being 40-200m variably tall by canon. Might I suggest we establish evas as ~120m for the sake of consistency and useful comparison?

Omegagouki · Postby **Omegagouki** » Sat Jul 17, 2010 8:15 pm

Well, I've decided to drop out of this contest. My apologies. I haven't really been around much anyway, so...

can't wait to see what everyone else has planned, though! :)

Chowwow · Postby **Chowwow** » Sat Jul 17, 2010 11:51 pm

NemZ wrote:The 'size' portion of the general data for this contest is rather hard to pin down, what with the evas being 40-200m variably tall by canon. Might I suggest we establish evas as ~120m for the sake of consistency and useful comparison?

Are you serious? 120m is huge! Well, I guess I'm impartial about this. What I really want to know is what everyone else thinks about this? Or maybe we can forgo using hard numbers and use relative measures (i.e. two-and-a-half Evas tall, etc).

Omegagouki wrote:Well, I've decided to drop out of this contest. My apologies. I haven't really been around much anyway, so...

can't wait to see what everyone else has planned, though! :)

Damn shame that you had to leave. Still, I'm sure everyone else will be able to deliver!

As of July 18, 12:45 PM EST:

Eva Designers:

Slammacow

Omegagouki (withdrawn)

Postby **NemZ** » Sun Jul 18, 2010 1:56 am

Chowwow wrote:Are you serious? 120m is huge!

It's the average of the given range. :shrug:

Formless One · Postby **Formless One** » Sun Jul 18, 2010 8:08 pm

No, that's the median, not the average. Median estimates are no good because they are too heavily influenced by outliers. To get the average, you would have to go through all the episodes in which the Evas were sortied, measure out their hights, add them together and divide by the number of events. Statistics! ;)

But you can save yourself the trouble, because all of the scenes where Shinji or another character is seen standing next to an Eva that's docked (or alternatively this wonderful scene) give us a direct scaling we can use. Sure, it might be one of the taller measures of an eva, but at least its consistent throughout the show and not a one-off event like the infamous vanishing mountain in episode 12. Not all data is evidence.

Or you can establish how tall your angel is in comparison to buildings, its surroundings, or a 747 rather than by comparing it to an Eva. A little thinking outside the box can be useful.

Or if we want to avoid getting into a prolonged debate we could just establish a consensus for the purpose of the contest. That works too.

But of all those options, do you know which one I like the best? Its a general rule for these situations: Don't overthink things, and don't call attention to details that few people care about anyway. Do what Anno obviously did and say "screw the numbers, I have a story to write." You can always edit and revise later for consistency. :)

evilhead008 · Postby **evilhead008** » Sun Jul 18, 2010 10:36 pm

Best of luck guys, this looks fun.

Postby **NemZ** » Sun Jul 18, 2010 11:35 pm

Formless One wrote:No, that's the median, not the average.

With only two numbers, 120 is both. If there's another official number given somewhere I'd like to know about it.

Formless One · Postby **Formless One** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 1:38 pm

NemZ wrote:With only two numbers, 120 is both. If there's another official number given somewhere I'd like to know about it.

Those are really the only two numbers anyone ever bothered to calculate? I find it hard to believe those are the only sizes ever indicated during the show, what with the sheer number of scenes the Eva's are sortied in.

With only two data points, both numbers are automatically outliers, so that method is no good.

The 40 M number is sometimes considered the "official' one, but only because it was the one stated in the manga and therefor not part of the same continuity as the show and/or Rebuild. Further, it just does not work for a lot of scenes, so I doubt its reliable from an IU POV.

The 40 M number was derived from looking at the scene where unit 02 was standing on a destroyer, and 40 M was the upper limit for the scene. But its a one time event, and its inconsistent with the size seen when the Evas are in dock (which is much larger). That leaves us with three possibilities:

1. the Evas have unstated magic shape shifting powers and can change size, possibly owing to their PWM composition. But since the Evas are covered in binders, armor, and other human technology this explanation is lacking. Can Nerv manipulate PWM now? Considering that the stuff seemed new and exciting to Ritsuko even when they had an angel to take appart and examine, I find that hard to believe.

2. our assumptions about the size of the destroyer are wrong. Better, but still seems unsatisfactory to me. Destroyers haven't exactly changed much in the last hundred years, why would they get bigger in the next five?

3. the cameraman is unreliable. This is the most parsimonious explanation by far, especially in light of the vanishing mountain and other visual oddities that crop up during the show's many action sequences. It may be that the IU filmmaker was using incomplete footage or was required by a third party (Nerv, Seele, the United States/Nations, Shinji and Asuka's New World Order, etc.) to doctor/censor the film. This has always been a potential issue with real life newscasts, documentaries, and "based on a true story" type fims, so I see no reason it can't be the case here. As such, consistency is the best indicator of reliability we have, hence why I think we should go with the scaling of the Evas while docked if anything.

And yeah, I know this opens up all sorts of metaphysical/metafictional questions conscerning the cameraman/filmmaker and the fourth wall. That just makes things more fun. :)

Vegeta 20XX · Postby **Vegeta 20XX** » Tue Jul 20, 2010 3:42 pm

I have a rough idea of what I am planning for my entry into the contest, and I'll elaborate it in the form of a typed rough draft soon. I also have some "bonus content" that I plan on submitting (interesting designs, extra background information, etc). If I can, I'll attempt to submit a few illustrations to go with my entry.

tehprognoob · Postby **tehprognoob** » Fri Jul 23, 2010 5:47 pm

Who! why didn't somebody mention this?!?! I want in!!!!! I nned to design an Eva for my fanfiction, anyway, so I'can jsut roll it in.

2. our assumptions about the size of the destroyer are wrong. Better, but still seems unsatisfactory to me. Destroyers haven't exactly changed much in the last hundred years, why would they get bigger in the next five?

Was is a destroyer? It could've been a cruiser or something in between a battleship and destroyer. Anyway, Eva 02 was much bigger than the ship, and the scene with Misato's car and unit 00 made evas look much bigger.

EDIT: Eva is what I'll make.

Chowwow · Postby **Chowwow** » Fri Jul 23, 2010 11:08 pm

tehprognoob wrote:Who! why didn't somebody mention this?!?! I want in!!!!! I nned to design an Eva for my fanfiction, anyway, so I'can jsut roll it in.

Sorry, I guess I need to advertise this Contest more. Still, it's very good to have you on board. Look back on previous entries to see how things have been done in the past. And be careful about your spelling.

As of July 23, 11:50 PM EST:

Eva Designers:

As for the scaling issue, I'm personally gonna use 40 meters as the standard for Eva heights. But if you wanna be non-specific, you can just use an Eva's height (whatever that is) as a relative measure. I'm just gonna leave it at that; my Angel needs some serious tooling to do.

tehprognoob · Postby **tehprognoob** » Sat Jul 24, 2010 11:14 am

I have to leave on July 28th in the morning and I can't get back until the 20th of August in the afternoon new york time :(

So I have 3 days to finish all of this crap.
POST EDITED, 'cause I wasn't supposed to show mah stuffs.

Chowwow · Postby **Chowwow** » Sat Jul 24, 2010 11:56 pm

tehprognoob wrote:SOme random doodles. Enjoy, lol.

That is nice and all, but the rules state that specific details about your designs have to be kept under wraps until presentations begin. This is all to prevent people from stealing your ideas. Therefore, I'm gonna have to ask you to delete those pics as soon as possible.

Good luck with the rest of your work though, I hope you don't feel too rushed!

tehprognoob · Postby **tehprognoob** » Sun Jul 25, 2010 8:44 am

meh, they're gonna be seriosly changed...
By the way, when do presentations begin?

Formless One · Postby **Formless One** » Sun Jul 25, 2010 1:54 pm

tehprognoob wrote:By the way, when do presentations begin?

Chowwow wrote:The Third Annual Contest

The Schedule:

May 1 (Saturday): Start of contest. Registration and research and development for Designs begins.

August 14 (Saturday): End of registration. Presentations begin the next day.

August 15 – Posting of last design: Presentation of Designs, one day at a time. Judges and audience view each one and make comments about each design as they wish.

Day after posting of last design – Seven days later: Chowwow posts own Angel design. Judges deliberate and nominate Angels for Awards.

Day after last day of deliberations: Award ceremony, Awards are presented each day based on central themes until all have been Awarded.

Day after all Awards given: Afterthoughts/Regrets week. Designers discuss their parting thoughts and discussions for future Contests are made.

chazthesilencer · Postby **chazthesilencer** » Sun Jul 25, 2010 2:05 pm

Clearly- I haven't been watching the Fandom area very closely...

Kinda late, but mind if I whip together a new Angel for your pleasures?

tehprognoob · Postby **tehprognoob** » Sun Jul 25, 2010 4:12 pm

So does that mean we post our entire thing (picture(s), technical details, history in the 7 days after August 15th?)

Formless One · Postby **Formless One** » Sun Jul 25, 2010 7:05 pm

tehprognoob wrote:So does that mean we post our entire thing (picture(s), technical details, history in the 7 days after August 15th?)

Read the post I linked to. You PM CHowwow, and he'll post it for you on the day of the contest.

oOoOoOo · Postby **oOoOoOo** » Sun Jul 25, 2010 7:24 pm

I'll enter for both. ^_^

Chowwow · Postby **Chowwow** » Mon Jul 26, 2010 12:15 am

tehprognoob wrote:So does that mean we post our entire thing (picture(s), technical details, history in the 7 days after August 15th?)

As Formless One said, I would like for you to submit a presentable Design to me via private message by (or earlier than) August 15th. I'll set up presentation dates a little before then so that each Design has a full day to itself for all to focus on.

chazthesilencer wrote:Clearly- I haven't been watching the Fandom area very closely...

Kinda late, but mind if I whip together a new Angel for your pleasures?

Why you certainly can, my good man! Glad to see you active again!