Asuka: Should We Hate Her?

[Incisivis]

I get what your trying to say, I really do, but how is what Asuka's doing any different from what everyone else in NGE was doing? Nobody "honestly" faced up to their problems. Misato turned to alcohol and men (Kaji) instead of facing her demons. With Ritsuko it was work and Gendo. And Gendo himself? Well, he just acted like a f**king psycho to deal with his problems.

Yes. Just a quick look at Evangelion shows that character patterns repeat and repeat and repeat

To me, if you dislike Asuka, you pretty much dislike everyone in Eva. Because if you set aside all of their various personality quirks, all any of them really wanted was to be loved. This was the driving force behind all of their actions, regardless of how messed up or misguided they were.

Yu-huh. But there are still many surface differences--that's why most of us have our favourites among the cast, and Asuka's methods turned her into a person who particularly grated on me.

[Mr. Tines]

AEF -- there is more to her than the very simplistic compare and contrast, but that it is essentially true I am convinced.

Let us look at what the series actually shows and implies, the things that make her that polar opposite whose problems are ones that Shinji could not comprehend.

I think we see the true Asuka in the little girl running home in elation to tell her mother that she had been recognised as one of the elite; someone who had always been brought up as being special, and now getting a first validation of that.

And her life after that would have been geared to boost that nature, the special child, the only pilot, hot housed through university so young; but a very lonely life -- the loneliness of eagles -- with nobody she could consider a peer. In transaction-theory terms, all her interactions would be efficient, cut down to bare essentials.

Being the best would be the foundation and root of her being, the consolation for her loss of contact, a part of herself that she would try to cut out. And in the context of her life, there would be little cause for her to have developed humility.

And then she finds that even she, the only one who approaches perfection, does not match up to her own severe and demanding standards -- "failure is not an option" -- and it all comes tumbling down.

[Anonymous_Evafan]

Amuzingly enough there isn't really that much we differ on which makes me wonder how we ended up where we did. I guess the main difference is I see that as a form of running away as it were. Hence the "mask" comparison. Which in-turn leads back the the what does it mean to understand someone arena.

I think we see the true Asuka in the little girl running home in elation to tell her mother that she had been recognised as one of the elite; someone who had always been brought up as being special, and now getting a first validation of that.

This is the only thing that doesn't sit quite right with me (aside from the obvious) because of a few of Asuka's lines.

Everyone will be nice to us from now on!
So, we won't be lonely anymore!
So, we'll be fine, even without Dad around!
We won't be lonely anymore!
So, look! Look at me!
Come on, Mom!

To me that really doesn't sound like vidication at all. More like an attempt to make herself and Kyoko feel better by living a lie.

[Mr. Tines]

This is the only thing that doesn't sit quite right with me (aside from the obvious) because of a few of Asuka's lines.

Everyone will be nice to us from now on!
So, we won't be lonely anymore!
So, we'll be fine, even without Dad around!
We won't be lonely anymore!
So, look! Look at me!
Come on, Mom!

To me that really doesn't sound like vidication at all. More like an attempt to make herself and Kyoko feel better by living a lie.

Let's not forget the context thgough

Asuka:
Mom! Mom! I've been chosen!
I'm an elite pilot, chosen to protect all of mankind!
I'm the best in the world!

Her life has been crappy -- she has already written her father off as any source of support; pretty much all she has is herself. And at this young age, she believes in herself, the one who will be grown up by act of will. Sure, like many people do, she is taking the one bit of external validation of her worth as a complete reversal of her fortunes -- but you would never expect Shinji to utter the phrase "I'm the best in the world!"

And then the fleeting glimpse of the butterfly that might have emerged from the cocoon, the quietly competent team leader in the counter attack on Matariel, before her wings were broken.

[Sailor Star Dust]

With Asuka's father AND stepmother, I always had the sense that neither really cared for her.

Note in the Episode 25 dialog, Stepmother says "...Whereas I can quit being that child's mother at anytime." Langley's response? "That's true." I mean, WTF. Does that sound like the words of a caring father?

Although the fact that Asuka's Stepmother gave her that monkey as a present, it could have been her way of getting Asuka to open up towards the doctor.
....Regardless, you have to be pretty fucked up in the head to have sex within earshot of your daughter and wife (Kyoko may be insane, but she KNOWS what's going on with Langley and her Doctor).

With Asuka: Although people that act like her in real life piss me off for the most part (I hate when people act arrogant or think they're such hot shit :roll: ), as a character, I like her. Then again, I do like all three of the Children... I guess I can sympathize with how tough her childhood was for her. I mean, having your mother go insane, and tell you that you might as well just die....No wonder Asuka turned out as fucked up as she did.

Although that does NOT make her behavior right by any means, it does make it understandable. Similar to the other Eva characters.

I find it most interesting how in EoTV's Pre-Instrumentality, her defenses are down ("I don't wanna die. I don't want to disappear. .... I don't want to be alone!"), yet in EoE's version of that, especially in the kitchen scene, her defenses are up...Although I personally think Asuka's projecting with what she says to Shinji, even though her accusations equally apply to him, too.

[Anonymous_Evafan]

@Tines

I see what you're saying, believe me I do. That is very much the way I first saw her. There are however many little things that made me question that view. To me she is someone who doesn't think much of herself deep down do to Kyoko's deranged babblings. As such she sees being the best as the only way to get the recognition she desired and puts on the "mask" that later cosumes her and twists her into the person we see in NGE.

Asuka:
Synch rate, zero... Not qualified to be the Second Child...
There's no reason for me to exist anymore.
Because no one will look at me now. Not Dad, not Mom, not anyone.
There's no reason for me to live now.

She went down that path because it was the only way she saw to get noticed. The BIG one that sells it for me is:

Shinji:
I hate myself.

Shinji & Asuka & Misato:
But maybe I can learn to love myself.

That doesn't make it sound short term. To me it comes off as her never really having any love for herself and using the "I"m the best" mantra to hide this fact and attempt to do away with it.

[Mr. Tines]

I think you are mistaken in conflating Asuka pre-Tokyo-3 and post-Tokyo-3, and ignoring the string of traumata that she suffers there. Of the characters, she is the one who undergoes the most change in the course of the series.

Before, she is a person who is proud of herself -- love, I agree, is not the word I think she would reach for. But there is some positive self-evaluation.

And then, just as she is starting to show that she is indeed the best, this dumb civilian, this slow-witted draftee, manages to exceed what she has done after years of effort. The readings are there, incontrovertibly. She is not the best. And that pulls out the keystone of her being, and she turns all her harsh regard inwards upon herself.

My thoughts on first seeing Episode 16 was "No! Don't be so cruel to her. Don't take her life away from her!" -- that was when I saw that she in a big way, was suffering something that I had suffered in a little way myself as a teenager.

No wonder, then, that when the spiral of descent has made her incapable of being a pilot, that she then regards herself in such terms and seeks an end to it all. And again, listless, on the beach, robbed of all that once again.

[Anonymous_Evafan]

I think you are mistaken in conflating Asuka pre-Tokyo-3 and post-Tokyo-3, and ignoring the string of traumata that she suffers there. Of the characters, she is the one who undergoes the most change in the course of the series.

I'm not Tines. I think that very trauma reveals the true Asuka to us.

Before, she is a person who is proud of herself -- love, I agree, is not the word I think she would reach for. But there is some positive self-evaluation.

And I'm not arguing that. As I said I feel she adopted that stance to get attention she felt entitled to.

It's supposed to be a secret! But I'll tell you anyway! Just for you!

Once she donned the mask it consumed her and turned her into the person we see for most of the series. I whole-heartedly agree with most of what you say in this arena, however I feel there is another layer of depth to Asuka. It's not an attempt to discredit your view at all as I will once again say I feel most of which is spot-on. I sat there and thought to myself what would I think of myself if my mother thought a doll was me. I came to the conclusion I'd feel very unwanted and in turn unworthy, this is the fundamental basis for my POV.

And again, listless, on the beach, robbed of all that once again.

That one I do disagree with but that's for another time and another thread.

[Mr. Tines]

I sat there and thought to myself what would I think of myself if my mother thought a doll was me. I came to the conclusion I'd feel very unwanted and in turn unworthy, this is the fundamental basis for my POV.

That is the point then, where we differ. My visualisation has her always pointing the fault onto others -- in fact her very declaration of independence

CHILD Asuka (OFF):
No! I'm not your doll, Mom!
I'll think for myself and live on my own!

makes it hard to credit your evaluation. She has pared her world down to just herself, now her mother has resisted all her attempts at manipulation -- "I'll be a good girl, so you'll like me! So, don't quit being my mom!" Lonely, yes, unwilling after all that to trust, yes. Feelings of negative self-worth -- it is to laugh.

Only after she has failed herself, a decade or so later, does self-loathing begin.

[Strato - Haxorz]

After reading this topic...I've come to a realisation..that what I've felt for Asuka wasn't...hate. It was more annoyance than anything...Now I see her in a totally different light...at first I thought she was just a arrogant prideful snobbish girl who was too infatuated with herself..that seeing Shinji do better than her was tearing her apart...jealousy kinda...

But now considering what I've read and reviewed over the episodes and manga...I can now see for what she really is -- a girl whose dark childhood has scarred her and has deep self esteem issues...I guess it's just that I was being too...quick to decide on her...

Modly proofreading applied. And, holy Moses, you use even more ellipses than I do... Oh -- and it's exactly 3 dots in an ellipsis.

[Sachi]

and your kinda being too quick with your typing. SPELL CHECK
im sorry, but that really bugged me

[Sailor Star Dust]

Since I didn't mention this earlier: I also view Asuka as being somebody who externally acts like their the best, but on the inside, she knows she's not.
)....What's that called again? Having an Superiority-Inferiority Complex?)

Either way, she also seems to have the starting stages of Narcissistic Personality Disorder, which I think I mentioned before.


Anyway, Asuka isn't a character I hate, she's just a character I feel sorry for.

[Sachi]

Asuka is a very real character which people LOVE/HATE her

[bap_120790]

So vulnerable, and fragile, and insecure, that's Asuka in my eyes, and perhaps in many others too. I feel more for her than for Shinji. Shinji was the most successful pilot among the 3 children despite his personality, and lack of training. On the other hand though, Asuka, with 10 years of preparation, was nowhere near Shinji's success, and that probably crushed her pride. I started to feel good about her skills when she began owning the eva series in EoE but the way she was eventually annihilated and cannibalized was painful for both the viewer to watch, and for herself.

[Mr. Jive]

If fans don't hate shinj for being a hateful, disgraceful, disrespectful, ungrateful, violent misogynistic brick, then they have no right to hate anyone else from this anime. Those scores he was getting were fake and made up by his mom inside unit one. He was expose in ep 16 when he try to take down a angle on his own, only for it to get throw back in his face. He turn his back on his friends then treat the two female pilot like crap? Is there any wonder why things don't end well for him? I don't feel sorry for him nor do I see how anyone else could feel sorry for him. This dude is a loser.


Asuka don't seem to be well like by fans in Japan. In fact, when she was being strangled at the end of the movie, fans were cheering about it. That right those sick fools were enjoying the whole thing. That just wrong and mess up. Her Japan VA once said she could not embrace Asuka like she wanted to due to Asuka having a wall around her heart. Wow. She seem to be more likable by fans in the U.S. and her U.S. VA like her very well too. Problem is she like for the wrong reason. Fans don't like her for trying to be strong and independent, instead it cause she hot and should be bang by her psycho roommate who she can't stand. So many garbage fics has her as a lame love interest while there so many images on the net whit her wearing that silly cat hat, while her back turn whit her ass sticking out is just sad. I don't think she a bad person but she is a troublesome person. It could be due to her feeling being use by everyone and in someways she was so it not like she was wrong to feel that way. Asuka did have a dark pass yet she chose to become the person she wanted everyone to see her out of her own free will. She has nobody to blame but herself for the way she turn out. I'm not saying she deserve it but I don't feel sorry for her either.


Although there is one guy who see past her poker face and knows she has self-esteem issue. While in the manga said she was cute and strong. Y'all never guess who it was but it show was not shinj.

[Stryker]

I thinking hating people is a considerable misallocation of personal resources; the time and energy you spend hating things is time not spent enjoying and appreciating things, and while there are things that should be rightfully hated, through my own judgement, I have found that very few of these things.

[Reichu]

Those scores he was getting were fake and made up by his mom inside unit one.

This is not how synchronization works.

[pwhodges]

If fans don't hate shinj for being a hateful, disgraceful, disrespectful, ungrateful, violent misogynistic brick, then they have no right to hate anyone else from this anime.

Remind me again what anime you're talking about here - I think it must be one I haven't seen.

[Reichu]

I could possibly see Shinji describing himself that way during one of his darker moments.

[pwhodges]

Well, OK, I guess there's that...