The Script for Rei and Kaworu at the Train Scene

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The Script for Rei and Kaworu at the Train Scene

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Postby IntrovertedAnon » Sun Nov 12, 2023 2:20 pm

I got this from a friend and they showed me this screenshot of the script during the train station scene on page 379.

SPOILER: Show
Image

シンジごしの1番線ホーム
男女のカップルら
その寄り レイとカラル
入線する電車でシャッターされる

Can someone translate this? I’m not that fluent in Japanese, but is it true that they’re a couple?

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Re: The Script for Rei and Kaworu at the Train Scene

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Postby FelipeFritschF » Sun Nov 12, 2023 7:56 pm

Yeah I asked a translator and it just says "Rei and Kaworu at the station". I guess "couple" is just a machine translation artefact.

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Re: The Script for Rei and Kaworu at the Train Scene

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Mon Nov 13, 2023 9:09 am

I love Shin Eva’s energy.

Mari X Asuka = RED HERRING.
Shinji X Asuka = FAILED.
Shinji X Rei = ABSOLUTELY NOT.
Rei X Kaworu = NOT CANON.
Shinji X Mari = TEASED.

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Re: The Script for Rei and Kaworu at the Train Scene

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Postby AlphaZero » Mon Nov 13, 2023 10:51 am

After tinkering with the text in both Google and Deepl, looking up every word and interpreting it. This is a translation I came up with, it can be wrong though:

On Platform 1 across Shinji there's a male-female couple.
The close by couple, Rei and Kaworu, is obstructed by an incoming train.

Was struggling with "ごし" but it seems to be "越し". The word "シャッター" can also be translated as camera shutter but it makes no sense here instead it means shutter like window shutter. The word for couple "カップル" does mean romantic couple instead of just two individuals.
Last edited by AlphaZero on Mon Nov 13, 2023 1:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Script for Rei and Kaworu at the Train Scene

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Postby Axx°N N. » Mon Nov 13, 2023 11:46 am

View Original PostFelipeFritschF wrote:Yeah I asked a translator and it just says "Rei and Kaworu at the station". I guess "couple" is just a machine translation artefact.

I don't mean to be condescending and I myself am no expert but, per the above, I don't see how this conclusion could possibly have been arrived at--how did a translator gloss over "カップル"? Katakana is something even the most beginner of beginners Japanese learner can readily translate... and the definition is unambiguous: "In particular, it refers to two people in a marital or romantic relationship."
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Re: The Script for Rei and Kaworu at the Train Scene

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Postby Blockio » Mon Nov 13, 2023 1:41 pm

I've thrown the thread Nuke's way, so we can get an actual, authoritative answer on this instead of secondhand accounts and trying to divine meaning from machine translations
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Re: The Script for Rei and Kaworu at the Train Scene

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Postby Joseki » Mon Nov 13, 2023 4:07 pm

The script addressing Kaworu and Rei as 男女 would be very much on point, if the specific line is referring to that cut of them on the other side of the station. At that point of the story they matter so little to Shinji they are just "a man and a woman".

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Re: The Script for Rei and Kaworu at the Train Scene

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Postby Konja7 » Mon Nov 13, 2023 5:43 pm

View Original PostJoseki wrote:The script addressing Kaworu and Rei as 男女 would be very much on point, if the specific line is referring to that cut of them on the other side of the station. At that point of the story they matter so little to Shinji they are just "a man and a woman".


I really doubt that description is about how much they matter to Shinji.

We should the correct translation, but it's likely a general description.

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Re: The Script for Rei and Kaworu at the Train Scene

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Postby Nuclear Lunchbox » Mon Nov 13, 2023 8:58 pm

View Original PostBlockio wrote:I've thrown the thread Nuke's way, so we can get an actual, authoritative answer on this instead of secondhand accounts and trying to divine meaning from machine translations

The pertinent lines are C-641 and C642.

C-641 wrote:シンジごしの1番線ホーム
男女のカップルら

"Track 1 platform across from Shinji." Self-explanatory. The track 1 platform across from Shinji.
"Multiple M/F couples." 男女 is a catch-all for both sexes, カップル is the English word for romantic couples on loan to Japanese for the day, and ら is a pluralizer that gives us couples. This is a strange note because in the actual scene, there are two girls standing on their own, one girl who appears to be Asuka, one gentleman with male pattern baldness, and then Rei and Kaworu. Maybe this direction was changed at some point during production, but that's what the Japanese says: multiple couples of men and women.

C-642 wrote:その寄り レイとカラル
入線する電車でシャッターされる

"Near them, Rei and Kaworu." Also self-explanatory. Rei and Kaworu are near the aforementioned couples on platform 1.
"Wiped by arriving train." Also also self-explanatory. An arriving train wipes across the screen removing them from sight.

Somebody could translate that その寄り as "among them", which could give the impression that Rei and Kaworu are meant to be counted among the couples. I actually did this in my first draft before realizing the implication, and switched to a more literal reading of "being close to something distant from the speaker", or just "near them".

As written, the script doesn't go out of its way to identify Rei and Kaworu as an item, squeee. It just says they're just standing near some people who are. In the end product, the only man and woman together on that platform are Rei and Kaworu. Make of this what you will, since the script seems determined not to do it for us.

Don't mention FemKaworu.

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Re: The Script for Rei and Kaworu at the Train Scene

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Postby Konja7 » Tue Nov 14, 2023 12:07 am

View Original PostNuclear Lunchbox wrote:"Track 1 platform across from Shinji." Self-explanatory. The track 1 platform across from Shinji.
"Multiple M/F couples." 男女 is a catch-all for both sexes, カップル is the English word for romantic couples on loan to Japanese for the day, and ら is a pluralizer that gives us couples. This is a strange note because in the actual scene, there are two girls standing on their own, one girl who appears to be Asuka, one gentleman with male pattern baldness, and then Rei and Kaworu. Maybe this direction was changed at some point during production, but that's what the Japanese says: multiple couples of men and women.

It's interesting that Asuka doesn't seem to be part of the script.

If the character is Asuka, her appearance in the train station is really weird. Unlike Rei and Kaworu, we don't have a close-up to the character. Not to mention that her appearance in the train station don't fit her ending in the Instrumentality (where she returns to Earth).



View Original PostNuclear Lunchbox wrote:Somebody could translate that その寄り as "among them", which could give the impression that Rei and Kaworu are meant to be counted among the couples. I actually did this in my first draft before realizing the implication, and switched to a more literal reading of "being close to something distant from the speaker", or just "near them".

As written, the script doesn't go out of its way to identify Rei and Kaworu as an item, squeee. It just says they're just standing near some people who are. In the end product, the only man and woman together on that platform are Rei and Kaworu. Make of this what you will, since the script seems determined not to do it for us.

To be fair, if the words could be read as "among them", it likely wants to imply something about Rei and Kaworu.

After all, there should be a reason why the script makes them appear is a situation where M/F couples are mentioned.

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Re: The Script for Rei and Kaworu at the Train Scene

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Postby Nuclear Lunchbox » Tue Nov 14, 2023 12:22 am

Yes, Asuka doesn't appear in the screenshot of the script at all. Interesting that Kaworu and Rei are highlighted, but not everyone's favorite Evangelion redhead.

The whole reason I went out of my way to say that I didn't want to translate 寄り as "among them" is because it has the meaning of "like" or "similar to" in English. If you count yourself among the members of a group, you're saying you're similar to them.

But in Japanese, it measures proximity. While you can convey this with "among them", it opens up the translation for questions like, "Does it mean they're close to the couples, or that they are a couple themselves like the others?" That is precisely the reason whyI didn't use that word in my translation and used "near them" which leaves fewer opportunities to interpret the English in ways the Japanese doesn't afford.

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Re: The Script for Rei and Kaworu at the Train Scene

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Postby FelipeFritschF » Tue Nov 14, 2023 12:48 am

Thank you, Nuke, that helps. Of course, while I know translators myself they don't have forum accounts nor are they interested in going too deep into this so I just quickly asked them what they thought and they didn't want to say much.

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Re: The Script for Rei and Kaworu at the Train Scene

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Postby nerv bae » Tue Nov 14, 2023 8:08 am

View Original PostKonja7 wrote:It's interesting that Asuka doesn't seem to be part of the script.

If the character is Asuka, her appearance in the train station is really weird. Unlike Rei and Kaworu, we don't have a close-up to the character. Not to mention that her appearance in the train station don't fit her ending in the Instrumentality (where she returns to Earth).

Must be Original Asuka at the train station, then. After all, the film has two Asukas to dispose of! :asuka_chansu-1-1: :asuka_chansu-2-1:

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Re: The Script for Rei and Kaworu at the Train Scene

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Tue Nov 14, 2023 11:22 am

View Original Postnerv bae wrote:Must be Original Asuka at the train station, then. After all, the film has two Asukas to dispose of! :asuka_chansu-1-1: :asuka_chansu-2-1:

Lol! I was just thinking this on the Discord. It makes the most sense so far, but I really don’t know how to prove it definitively.

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Re: The Script for Rei and Kaworu at the Train Scene

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Postby Axx°N N. » Tue Nov 14, 2023 11:56 am

It rather neatly gives a reason for why she doesn't get much focus at all when she logically should if she's Asuka but not our (or Shinji's) Asuka.
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Re: The Script for Rei and Kaworu at the Train Scene

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Postby kuribo-04 » Tue Nov 14, 2023 2:14 pm

View Original PostKonja7 wrote:If the character is Asuka, her appearance in the train station is really weird. Unlike Rei and Kaworu, we don't have a close-up to the character. Not to mention that her appearance in the train station don't fit her ending in the Instrumentality (where she returns to Earth).

I think that's easily explained by the ending scene being largely symbolic.
Mari was gonna get Shinji out of the Anti-Universe too.
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Re: The Script for Rei and Kaworu at the Train Scene

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Postby Konja7 » Tue Nov 14, 2023 3:24 pm

View Original Postkuribo-04 wrote:I think that's easily explained by the ending scene being largely symbolic.
Mari was gonna get Shinji out of the Anti-Universe too.

The thing is Asuka is pretty "relegated" in that scene. In the Train Scene, there is close-up to Kaworu and Rei, while Asuka(?) is just sitting and the image never focuses on her. The fact that the script doesn't even mention Asuka makes everything more weird.

That's why people think the redhead woman may not be Asuka. She being Original Asuka wouldn't be so weird, since we never know what happened with her.

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Re: The Script for Rei and Kaworu at the Train Scene

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Postby Axx°N N. » Tue Nov 14, 2023 4:36 pm

Sort of disappointed at no Asuka mention in the script because I've long wondered if she's holding either a cellphone or handheld game, and across the net it seems there's been no consensus.

It's interesting, given some discourse here about the heteronormativity (or otherwise...) of NTE, that the script was set to populate the scene with male/female couples but a deliberate choice was made to not do that ... perhaps in conscious effort to avoid messaging as such. Funny that I already glommed onto that suggestion regardless, though.
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Re: The Script for Rei and Kaworu at the Train Scene

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Postby IntrovertedAnon » Mon Nov 27, 2023 6:35 pm

View Original PostNuclear Lunchbox wrote:Yes, Asuka doesn't appear in the screenshot of the script at all. Interesting that Kaworu and Rei are highlighted, but not everyone's favorite Evangelion redhead.

The whole reason I went out of my way to say that I didn't want to translate 寄り as "among them" is because it has the meaning of "like" or "similar to" in English. If you count yourself among the members of a group, you're saying you're similar to them.

But in Japanese, it measures proximity. While you can convey this with "among them", it opens up the translation for questions like, "Does it mean they're close to the couples, or that they are a couple themselves like the others?" That is precisely the reason whyI didn't use that word in my translation and used "near them" which leaves fewer opportunities to interpret the English in ways the Japanese doesn't afford.


I have talked with a few Japanese people and they said that Kaworu and Rei are a couple in the script, which confuses me because you said that it’s pretty much ambiguous on if they are or not and the Japanese fans say that they are.

Then there’s this information on PIXIV:

2023年3月に発売されたBD及びDVDの特典台本ではカヲルとレイの二人を男女カップルと記載があり、ラストシーンの駅のカヲルとレイそっくりの二人は当の本人であり、特に何も恋愛描写もなく、お互いが碇シンジに向けていた好意も後付設定により消え去り、スタジオカラー公認の公式カップルであることが確定した。なお元々二人の好意は恋愛と言ったものではなく、親愛といった親の感情のようなものだと監督のインタビュー等で明かされている。


https://dic.pixiv.net/a/LRK

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Re: The Script for Rei and Kaworu at the Train Scene

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Postby Konja7 » Mon Nov 27, 2023 8:38 pm

View Original PostIntrovertedAnon wrote:I have talked with a few Japanese people and they said that Kaworu and Rei are a couple in the script, which confuses me because you said that it’s pretty much ambiguous on if they are or not and the Japanese fans say that they are.

I suppose the script is ambiguous, but many Japanese people take the romantic interpretation. After all, the need to mention F/M couple when Kaworu and Rei appear could imply something.



View Original PostIntrovertedAnon wrote:Then there’s this information on PIXIV:

2023年3月に発売されたBD及びDVDの特典台本ではカヲルとレイの二人を男女カップルと記載があり、ラストシーンの駅のカヲルとレイそっくりの二人は当の本人であり、特に何も恋愛描写もなく、お互いが碇シンジに向けていた好意も後付設定により消え去り、スタジオカラー公認の公式カップルであることが確定した。なお元々二人の好意は恋愛と言ったものではなく、親愛といった親の感情のようなものだと監督のインタビュー等で明かされている。


https://dic.pixiv.net/a/LRK

Regarding the Japanese text , I've read this text using the google traductor (so it's totally unreliable), but it's speaks about an interview. I don't remember any interview that speaks so much about Kaworu or Rei.

Also, parental feelings are mentioned in the text, but I guess it means the feelings of Rei and Kaworu towards Shinji.


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