Did 3.0+1.0 justify WILLE's treatment of Shinji?

[swagbuckking1]

Hello. On advice of the mods I have decided to make a new topic separate from the general thread and will copy my posts from there to here. After learning of the spoilers from Shin, I opine that we learn nothing from the final film that makes us more sympathetic and understanding of WILLE's actions. Feel free to discuss.

1.

Hello guys, long-time lurker here. Decided to finally make an account and my first post. Now that spoilers for shin have come out I can't help but feel like I have more questions than before. In particular, I am baffled by how WILLE treated Shinji in Q and feel that it was not given proper justification or explanation in Shin.

Since it was revealed that Asuka and Mari also have to wear DSS chokers (presumably because they are active EVA pilots and they are a necessary precaution to prevent awakening), why would WILLE place the choker on Shinji if they never intended to let him pilot? Did they think that he would solid snake himself inside Unit 1 when no-one was looking? Were they not confident in their ability to prevent NERV & Gendo from abducting him? If they thought he might have been an angel then why did they let Sakura come near him but have Misato and Ritsuko stay safely behind bulletproof glass? Why didn't they just tell Shinji that his father intends to use him to start another impact? That would have taken not even five minutes. But if they intended to keep him in the dark to not "traumatize" him then why have Ritsuko deliberately antagonize him by telling him they've strapped a bomb to his neck and that it is a symbol of his "punishment"? That doesn't seem a wise thing to say to an emotionally volatile teenage boy who's been in a coma for 14 years.

To quote another member from the fanart thread:

Looks like Asuka does indeed have her own DSS Choker. Ritsuko can shove her cryptic bullshit up her ass, it would have been far easier to tell Shinji every pilot has to wear one instead of being needlessly vague.

Wouldn't it have been easier to tell him that every pilot has to wear one but even then that brings me back to the point of why they even put it on him if they never intended on letting him pilot. I can't help but feel that Misato and Ritsuko were made to act out of character in this scene as it just doesn't seem like something either of them would do (especially with Ritsuko recklessly condemning Shinji with the words "punishment" and "mistrust" when a woman as intelligent as her should know that this would likely push him away). Granted they have been fighting a war for 14 years and we don't really know what they have been through. But then again she might have chosen to say it if she was confident he wouldn't be ABLE to escape but then that circles us back to my second point of why would you even put it on him if you were confident he had nowhere to run? It just seems like they were deliberately trying to push him into Gendo's arms just so they could advance the plot.

2.

I don't think they exactly know what Gendo's plans are. They just don't want another Impact.

Honestly, Wille members have a grudge against Shinji. That's the main problem in the way they handle the situation.

The bomb isn't the main problem. Ritsuko could explain the situation, but the hate that Shinji is feeling from Wille members will still make him want to escape from that place.

PS: The lack of explanation is for the audience.

So you're suggesting the reason they placed the choker on Shinji was to appease the WILLE crew in order to prevent potentially a mutiny. This would explain why they brought Shinji to the bridge and activated the choker in front of all the crew. However what we learn from Shin is that the only two members which become hostile and are willing to harm Shinji are Sakura and Midori. Both of whom do so due to losing their fathers in the NTI. If we assume Misato and Ritsuko placed the choker to appease these members (assuming they knew about their fathers), why would they place Shinji in the care of someone (Sakura) who has arguably the biggest reason to kill him? Why didn't Misato have Shinji stay with her or even Asuka once his identity was confirmed? Surely they would have been able to protect him? If they were that afraid of their crew members, would it not have been smart to tell Shinji that he would be staying with Touji and Kensuke at the village ASAP instead of putting him in a cell on the wunder with the choker on his neck? As that way he would be safe from NERV (presumably) and hostile WILLE members and he wouldn't have felt as alienated as to escape with Rei Q.

As for keeping the audience in the dark with the lack of explanations, this only works as a storytelling technique when things are sufficiently explained later in the story. We already know that the choker is meant to prevent awakenings by killing the pilot. What we as the audience do not learn even in Shin is as to why Misato, someone who cared for Shinji, would unnecessarily place the choker on him anyway when she weren't intending on letting him pilot. One could argue that they were just doing it to "punish" him. If this is the case we can only assume that they just wanted Shinji to just shut up and stay in his cell with the choker around his neck to constantly remind him of his mistakes. "Mistakes" that Misato later concedes in Shin that without Shinji, the world would have been doomed anyway. If this is what they had in store for Shinji, then this would have been an extremely rash and hyper-emotional reaction from the two most senior WILLE members. A reaction that is not only out of character for both Misato (because she still cares about him) and Ritsuko (condemning and alienating a living impact trigger is not something a smart, pragmatic woman like her would do), but one that would have been extremely psychologically damaging to Shinji and also give him ample reason to leave. And all for what? Just to appease Sakura and Midori?

In my opinion the best course of action when Shinji woke up would have been this:
- Maintain him in the angel sealing pillars and the choker as Sakura did until they can confirm it is actually him.
- Not have Sakura tell Shinji the thing on his neck "is never coming off". This is just unnecessary and will alienate him.
- Not have him brought to the bridge where the other crew members are so he isn't exposed to them. This as you said before, is one of the main reasons why Shinji was alienated so much. Because the crew were all hatefully glaring at him.
- Have Sakura bring him to the interrogation room as normal.
- Have Misato actually speak to Shinji and say something like this:
"Shinji. This is going to sound confusing but you have been in a coma for 14 years. We do not have much time to explain things to you because we are in a war against your father and are under constant attack. We can't let you pilot Unit 1 because we need it as an engine. Also something really bad happened the last time you piloted Unit 1 but we will explain this to you when we have the time. That thing around your neck is a device to make sure you are not an angel. When we know for certain that it's really you Shinji, we will take it off and you will stay with me where I can keep and eye on you. Afterwards when it is safe, we're going to take you to Touji and Kensuke. They're going to keep you safe OK? I know you are confused but you just need to trust me. Now go with Sakura, I will speak to you later."

That would have taken less the 5 minutes and would have prevented Shinji from running away when Rei Q came knocking.

- Then take Shinji to his room so Sakura can perform the checkup and psychological tests to make sure it's really him.
- Once safe from attack, have Shinji brought to Misato's room where she can remove the choker and calmly and reassuringly explain everything that happened with Rei, NERV, NTI & Third Impact.
- Have Shinji stay with Misato (and only Misato) on the wunder until they get to the village. This way the crew members do not know that the choker is off and they can't start throwing a hissy fit.
- Transfer Shinji to Touji, Hikari and Kensuke's care. Presumably Shinji is safe from being abducted by Gendo here and is therefore not a threat as an impact trigger. Also Shinji trusts Touji and Kensuke and they will be able help him come to terms with what he caused and recover psychologically.

These seem like the logical things to do in a situation like this.

3.

I'm suggesting that the lack of explanation for the chocker isn't so important for Shinji. The reason why he wants to escape is because the hostility he feels from WILLE members.

You make a good point. However I believe that the greatest reason Shinji desired to leave were directly because of Ritsuko's comments in which Shinji is told he has a lethal device installed on his neck and that it is a symbol of his "punishment". Being told by one of only two familiar faces that they have put a bomb on your neck because they have deemed you as guilty will be extremely overwhelming to say the least especially after being in a coma for 14 years. Ritsuko even states "I don't blame you for panicking", indicating she knew the effect it would have on him but she said it anyway. Remember, Misato and Ritsuko are the only familiar faces that Shinji has seen at this point. Because Shinji knows Ritsuko, what she tells him is far more likely to instill dread in Shinji as opposed to the disapproving glares he recieves from the other WILLE members. Telling him he was being "punished" was completely unnecessary even if they did resent him for NTI as it only exacerbated his desire to leave. This is why I feel Ritsuko words did not suit her character and intelligence and the dialogue did her a disservice. A stoic and clinical scientist such as her is just unlikely to use such language towards Shinji especially when there are greater priorities at stake than letting the 14 year old kid know that he is guilty.

It isn't said Misato doesn't plan to let Shinji pilot again. In fact, they analyze his synchronicity with Eva-1 in Q and they find it is zero (in Shin, we discover Rei II is the cause). Some WILLE members don't want him to pilot, but it's never said Misato wouldn't allow it if it is possible (and necessary).

Once again another good point. We as the viewer do not fully know Misato's intentions on letting Shinji pilot again. However her first comments to Shinji is that he will not be doing anything so it is unlikely he will piloting anytime soon. This does generate another question as if there was the possibility Shinji would be allowed to pilot again, why not just tell him all the pilots are required to wear one? Why BEGIN with telling him he's being punished and that it'll kill him if he loses control of his feelings? If anything that'll make Shinji just refuse to pilot if or when they actually need him to pilot because they had already scared and alienated him with the choker and their reasons for putting it on. Would you be willing be to help the people who have effectively condemned you with such a cruel, unusual and arguably, unnecessary punishment. Remember we have no reason to believe that Shinji wouldn't listen to Misato if she simply told him to not pilot the EVAs; she is still someone that he respects after all. We find out in thrice that Shinji himself offered to put the choker on before he piloted Unit 1 when he understood everything. I just think that Ritsuko's comments did WILLE the most disservice and was the greatest reason why Shinji left. It's a shame because Ritsuko was one of my favourite characters in NGE.

4.

Are you serious?

"Shinji. This is going to sound confusing but you have been in a coma for 14 years (What're you talking about, Misato? Fourteen years?! But I was just in the Eva!"). We do not have much time to explain things to you because we are in a war against your father and are under constant attack ("But my father is in command of NERV - what's going on?!"). We can't let you pilot Unit 1 because we need it as an engine ("But it's my Eva!"). Also something really bad happened the last time you piloted Unit 1 but we will explain this to you when we have the time ("Nothing bad happened, Misato, I saved Rei!"). That thing around your neck is a device to make sure you are not an angel. When we know for certain that it's really you Shinji, we will take it off and you will stay with me where I can keep and eye on you. Afterwards when it is safe, we're going to take you to Touji and Kensuke. They're going to keep you safe OK? I know you are confused but you just need to trust me. Now go with Sakura, I will speak to you later."

You are correct in stating that Shinji will not immediately accept the things that he has been told in the scenario I created because anybody would find these things hard to believe. However what I intended to do was create a script where Misato communicates with Shinji in such a way where he does not feel threatened by Misato, Ritsuko and the rest of the WILLE crew to the point where he immediately escapes with Rei Q. Even in my scenario, he may still leave however he now has much less reason to do so, namely because there is greater emphasis on Misato's desire to:
A: Keep him safe.
B: Explain things later when it is less hectic.

Keeping these things in mind, it wouldn't be logical or likely for Shinji to run away at the first chance when he only wants things properly explained to him and he is told to expect that Misato will explain things when she has the chance.

Not even going into:

1. Telling him they'll take it off once they know he isn't an Angel is a lie.

In my fan-fictional scenario it wouldn't be a lie because they actually do intend to take it off. After all in my scenario, the WILLE crew are of the mindset "why place it on him if we don't intend to let him pilot". This is excluding placing it on him because of resentments from certain WILLE members. I wrote this dialogue because I wanted to tell what I think would be the optimum, hypothetical way WILLE could keep Shinji from leaving. I wasn't trying to re-tell the story in a more realistic way.

2. Taking him to be taken care of by people who last saw him fourteen years ago would be extremely weird and alienating.

Alienating for whom? Shinji or Touji and co. Because as you pointed out, Shinji was not aware of the 14 year timeskip and believes the events in 2.0 happened only days ago. If that is the case then hearing familiar names such as Touji and Kensuke should provide reassurance to Shinji that WILLE aren't hostile and this will make him less likely to leave. If you are suggesting that Touji and Kensuke will find seeing Shinji after 14 years alienating then this, as proved by the spoilers from Shin, just will not be the case. We have learned that Touji, Hikari and Kensuke are actually warm and kind to Shinji and help him recover psychologically after Kaworu's traumatizing death. Kensuke even takes him fishing and explains more about the state of the world after Third Impact. I simply do not think Touji and Kensuke would find seeing Shinji again after 14 years to be wierd. After all they are aware of the Curse of the Eva because Kensuke spends time with Asuka and knows of her condition. Seeing a still teenage Shinji should be nothing they are not used to.

[Konja7]

Since it was revealed that Asuka and Mari also have to wear DSS chokers (presumably because they are active EVA pilots and they are a necessary precaution to prevent awakening), why would WILLE place the choker on Shinji if they never intended to let him pilot? Did they think that he would solid snake himself inside Unit 1 when no-one was looking? Were they not confident in their ability to prevent NERV & Gendo from abducting him? If they thought he might have been an angel then why did they let Sakura come near him but have Misato and Ritsuko stay safely behind bulletproof glass? Why didn't they just tell Shinji that his father intends to use him to start another impact? That would have taken not even five minutes. But if they intended to keep him in the dark to not "traumatize" him then why have Ritsuko deliberately antagonize him by telling him they've strapped a bomb to his neck and that it is a symbol of his "punishment"? That doesn't seem a wise thing to say to an emotionally volatile teenage boy who's been in a coma for 14 years.

Although Asuka and Mari need to use a DSS chokers, I suspect this is considered a "punishment" by Shinji's "bad behavior" in 2.0 (Ritsuko really wants Shinji to stop in 2.0).

Honestly, I don't think Ritsuko cares about pushing Shinji away. After all, they put a bomb on his neck so they don't need to care about Shinji's feelings.

In Ritsuko's opinion, if Shinji tries to go with his father, Misato should explode his head.

[swagbuckking1]

Konja7, you brought up a good reason as to why WILLE's actions were understandable:

Honestly, I think Ritsuko really think the bomb is a "punishment" for Shinji. After all, she really wants Shinji to stop in 2.0.

Unlike other Wille members (and even Misato), Ritsuko doesn't seem hostile toward Shinji in 3.0. She is just cold and cynic, so she won't care so much about Shinji's feelings.

In Ritsuko's opinion, if Shinji tries to go with Gendo, Misato should explode his head.

I must confess I did not even consider that Ritsuko simply does not care about Shinji's life/feelings and wouldn't hesistate to detonate the choker had the decision been hers to make. It would certainly increase the parallels between her and Gendo in their apathy towards Shinji's life.

What doesn't make sense though is why Misato did not speak up when Ritsuko was alienating Shinji with the words "punishment" and "mistrust"? Ritsuko clearly doesn't care about Shinji's life and would kill him if he tried to leave. But Misato is someone who cares about Shinji's feelings as she is deliberately withholding information about Shinji's involvement in NTI as she knows this would break him if he knew. So then if Misato didn't want Shinji traumatized then why would she allow Ritsuko to tell him he has a death collar strapped to his neck and it's because they don't trust him? Wouldn't that have the same effect in distressing him? Does this not indicate a miscommunication or even rift between Misato and Ritsuko? If Misato is Ritsuko's superior then why did Ritsuko not honor Misato's desire to protect Shinji emotionally? Unless of course Misato does indeed believe the choker is there as Shinji's "punishment" and is in agreement with Ritsuko and also arguably, Sakura, who states "That's [the choker] never coming off".

If this is the case and the choker is mainly there to serve as a symbolic punishment, a device to humiliate Shinji to make sure he never pilots again, then this makes Misato's hesistance to detonate the choker and Ritsuko's sympathetic look, make less sense. This sudden change from one extreme to the other (going from wanting to "punish" Shinji and threatening his life to then ultimately sparing him) comes across as contrived and sudden. This internal conflict Misato has towards Shinji is not even hinted at until we see her hesitate to detonate the trigger, which in my opinion undoes the extreme character change in her that the film spent the first 30 minutes setting up. This would seem like to me, the film-writers way of saying: "No, you can't hate how cold WILLE/Misato are towards Shinji! She spared his life, see?! They don't actually hate him silly." It would just come across as extremely (and I hate to use this term) "gaslighty".

This is why I am of the belief that Misato did not subscribe to the "This choker is your punishment, Shinji" attitude that Ritsuko had but she simply failed to stop Ritsuko from running her mouth about "punishment" which alienated Shinji and caused him to flee.

[EscapismIsBad]

I think they did, at least Misato and maybe Asuka.
It clearly wasn't comfortable for Misato to talk with Shinji in 3.0, Ritsuko is just very cold and doesn't care about human lives overall, much like Gendo said when Ritsuko shot him. At the end of day Misato sacrificed herself for Shinji to start Neon Genesis, in a way she gave her life to pay for her mistreating of Shinji

[JuanSorel]

in a way she gave her life to pay for her mistreating of Shinji

A simple apology would have sufficed...

[CharPenPen]

They treated Shinji that way because he caused near third impact and they've been living in a post-apocalyptic landscape for more than a decade as a result. They see him as the trigger for a horrendous, global Holocaust.

"But why didn't they explain the situation to him"

Because structurally 3.0 is designed to undermine the sense of triumphalism at the end of 2.0, and place you in a disorientated state that mirrors Shinji.

If you want an in universe reason? Maybe after more than a decade they've began to see Shinji less as a human and more as an "event", the thing that seemingly caused global genocide. And maybe characters like Misato have guilt around their part in encouraging Shinji to pilot the Eva, and treating him like a threat to be managed rather than a human allows them to avoid dealing with that guilt.

It's really just that. Either that plot point works for you or it doesn't.

[BusterMachine4]

They treated Shinji that way because he caused near third impact and they've been living in a post-apocalyptic landscape for more than a decade as a result. They see him as the trigger for a horrendous, global Holocaust.

But he didn't really cause it. At least, I don't think he did? I mean, Kaworu throws that spear to disable Unit 1, and then the next thing we see of Third Impact is Unit 6 and Lilith combined, in a way that makes it clear at least a few months have passed. There doesn't seem to be any implication that Shinji caused the red Earth. I mean, he did wreck Tokyo-3, and the Wunder's bridge crew obviously has a personal connection to that incident, but wrecking a city on accident doesn't seem like something you should be treated like Hitler for.

"But why didn't they explain the situation to him"

Because structurally 3.0 is designed to undermine the sense of triumphalism at the end of 2.0, and place you in a disorientated state that mirrors Shinji.

But that's exactly the problem. WILLE not bothering to tell Shinji why he needs the choker, or really anything going on with the current world situation, feels like a plot device more than something that actually makes sense in-universe. It's an excuse to get Shinji to comply with Gendo's plans, and it's a way to make the audience feel weirded out, but it doesn't feel like a logical plot point beyond that.

And the "Misato doesn't see Shinji as a human" explanation doesn't work either, because she literally was roommates with him for about half a year. She knows how Shinji's mind works, and what makes him feel good and bad. But instead of using that knowledge, she deals with Shinji in a way that seems almost designed to alienate and confuse him. Which of course, it was designed, but by the writers rather than Misato.

[CharPenPen]

Shinji clearly caused the red earth. It doesn't exactly line up with what we saw in 2.0, but that's what happened, and the emotional arc of the last two films is built on Shinji's seemingly heroic actions turning the earth alien.

But that's exactly the problem. WILLE not bothering to tell Shinji why he needs the choker, or really anything going on with the current world situation, feels like a plot device more than something that actually makes sense in-universe. It's an excuse to get Shinji to comply with Gendo's plans, and it's a way to make the audience feel weirded out, but it doesn't feel like a logical plot point beyond that.

Sure. But there's no more to it than that. Either this plot point worked for you, or it didn't. But ultimately this is a work of fiction, so you aren't going to find a pristine reason for these events that ties up all your miss givings.

Personally, and not to get all Peter Greenaway on it but, I'm not really interested in film as a narrative medium. It's clear to me what 3.0 is trying to do thematically and structurally. It's not entirely consistent with what's in the second film, but 3.0 is, for me, a much more interesting film. So I don't mind.

[Konja7]

But he didn't really cause it. At least, I don't think he did? I mean, Kaworu throws that spear to disable Unit 1, and then the next thing we see of Third Impact is Unit 6 and Lilith combined, in a way that makes it clear at least a few months have passed. There doesn't seem to be any implication that Shinji caused the red Earth. I mean, he did wreck Tokyo-3, and the Wunder's bridge crew obviously has a personal connection to that incident, but wrecking a city on accident doesn't seem like something you should be treated like Hitler for.

To be clear, it is mentioned that the Third Impact with Unit 6 and Lilith combined was stopped by Kaji's sacrifice (Lillith stabbed by two lances in Q is likely related to that). It is never directly mentioned that this caused the red Earth.

Instead, characters like Touji and Kensuke speak about the Near Third Impact like the big thing humanity faced.

So, the situation is still not so clear.

[Giji Shinka]

But he didn't really cause it. At least, I don't think he did? I mean, Kaworu throws that spear to disable Unit 1, and then the next thing we see of Third Impact is Unit 6 and Lilith combined, in a way that makes it clear at least a few months have passed.

Since these two movies seems to hammer the point that Shinji was the cause it's safe to assume that he is the reason for the red earth.
3.0 and 2.0 (with that ominous shot of Lilith) imply that when Shinji activated the near 3rd impact, Lilith was awakened as a result sometime later and caused the real 3rd impact and Mark.06 had to be sacrificed to stop it along with Kaji.

[swagbuckking1]

Another thing that I don't often see discussed with Ritsuko's conversation with Shinji is the fact she randomly changes the subject (kind of) after telling Shinji about the choker. I have the script up to that point below:

00:25:00 {Sakura} Specimen BM03. Tentative Name: Ikari Shinji-san.
00:25:03 {Sakura} The vice-captain would like to speak with you.
00:25:06 {Shinji} That's Eva-01...?
00:25:08 {Ritsuko} Yes. Eva-01 is currently being used as the main engine of this ship.
00:25:13 {Ritsuko} It follows that we don't need a pilot.
00:25:16 {Shinji} It really is true, then.
00:25:19 {Ritsuko} Also, your deep sync test results are in.
00:25:23 {Ritsuko} Your sync rate is 0.00%.
00:25:26 {Ritsuko} Even if you were to get in the Eva, it wouldn't activate.
00:25:30 {Sakura} There we go!
00:25:31 {Sakura} Isn't that great, Ikari-san?
00:25:33 {Ritsuko} Still, we cannot overlook the fact that the unit suddenly entered an Awakened state for twelve seconds earlier.
00:25:39 {Ritsuko} As a result, we've installed the DSS Choker on you.
00:25:44 {Shinji} What is this?
00:25:45 {Ritsuko} Insurance for us.
00:25:48 {Ritsuko} It's a physical safety device that prevents Awakenings.
00:25:51 {Ritsuko} It symbolizes both your punishment, and our mistrust in you.
00:25:55 {Shinji} What do you mean?
00:25:56 {Ritsuko} Should you succumb to your emotions while piloting an Eva, and the risk of Awakening becomes too great to avoid,
00:26:04 {Ritsuko} this will intervene by terminating your life.
00:26:08 {Shinji} Does that mean... I'll die?
00:26:13 {Ritsuko} I won't deny that.
00:26:16 {Shinji} No way...
00:26:18 {Shinji} Misato-san, what's the meaning of this? I'll die?
00:26:22 {Shinji} It doesn't make sense, Misato-san!
00:26:24 {Shinji} How'd things suddenly end up this way? It's ridiculous!
00:26:27 {Ritsuko} I can't blame you for being confused.
00:26:28 {Ritsuko} Lieutenant?
00:26:29 {Sakura} Yes, ma'am?
00:26:30 {Ritsuko} Tell him your name and rank.

Here we see that it is Ritsuko that calls for Shinji to fill him in on information. We have kind of characterized that Ritsuko doesn't really care about sparing Shinji's feelings, if she did she probably wouldn't have told him they were punishing him with a device designed to kill him. So yes, she is surprisingly candid in answering his questions until it comes to the point where he starts panicking about the thought of dying and starts begging Misato for answers. Here even Ritsuko states she doesn't blame Shinji for being confused. This proves that Ritsuko has some degree of emotional intelligence and that she is aware what she has told him has stressed him out. Therefore would it not make sense to further elaborate and tell him key details such as:

- What are "awakenings".
- Why it is bad that you caused one.
- Why we need to resort to such extreme measures.

Instead Ritsuko defers to Sakura to state her name and rank and has her (and Asuka) break the fact 14 years have passed. What was actually going through Ritsuko's mind? "I just told you that you have a bomb on your neck and it's because you're being punished. You want to know what awakenings are? Why we are being so harsh? No, lol here, talk to your best friends sister who you barely know instead."

The argument that Ritsuko skimped on the details to spare Shinji's feelings falls flat on it's face considering she just straight up told him that they don't trust him and consider him a prisoner. She should have either committed completely to telling Shinji everything he wanted to know or not said anything at all. It's just unbelievable to just drop a bombshell like that on Shinji and then ask a virtual stranger to basically pick up the pieces. It almost seems like they wanted Shinji to be even more confused than he already was by dropping terms like "awakenings" and then leaving them unexplained.

[wiser3754]

On my second viewing of 3.0, my reasoning for Ritsuko skimping on key details to Shinji is because Sakura is in the room and Ritsuko doesn't want to eleborate in fear Sakura will pick up on discrepancies that doesn't fit the narrative what Ritsuko and Misato had disclosed to the her and the crew regarding NTI and 3IA.

If Shinji is ignorant of the events that unfolded during 2.0 and 3.0, then Ritsuko will keep the narrative going. However if she suspects Shinji will remember what had during 2.0 and 3.0 which might instill mistrust in the crew towards her and Misato, then the choker is there to stop any discourse coming from Shinji.

My argument is purely based on my speculation that in 3.0, Shinji is not the cause of the red Earth and that Misato and Ritsuko merely use Shinji as a scapegoat to deflect blame from themsleves - They were the chief scientist and operations officer after all!- and garner trust from the world for their organisation and their battleship, the Wunder. But 3.0 + 1.0 put an stop to that piece of theory crafting.

[Axx°N N.]

Ritsuko is just very cold and doesn't care about human lives overall, much like Gendo said when Ritsuko shot him.

???

If Ritsuko didn't care about human lives, she wouldn't be risking her life in WILLE's endeavor which is quite clearly putting her scientific knowledge to use in the restoration of life.

What's the Gendo quote exactly?

[Konja7]

???

If Ritsuko didn't care about human lives, she wouldn't be risking her life in WILLE's endeavor which is quite clearly putting her scientific knowledge to use in the restoration of life.

What's the Gendo quote exactly?

To be fair, Ritsuko is benefited (like any human) by a restored World.

I think the point is that she won't hesitate to kill any dangerous person.

[swagbuckking1]

On my second viewing of 3.0, my reasoning for Ritsuko skimping on key details to Shinji is because Sakura is in the room and Ritsuko doesn't want to eleborate in fear Sakura will pick up on discrepancies that doesn't fit the narrative what Ritsuko and Misato had disclosed to the her and the crew regarding NTI and 3IA.

If Shinji is ignorant of the events that unfolded during 2.0 and 3.0, then Ritsuko will keep the narrative going. However if she suspects Shinji will remember what had during 2.0 and 3.0 which might instill mistrust in the crew towards her and Misato, then the choker is there to stop any discourse coming from Shinji.

My argument is purely based on my speculation that in 3.0, Shinji is not the cause of the red Earth and that Misato and Ritsuko merely use Shinji as a scapegoat to deflect blame from themsleves - They were the chief scientist and operations officer after all!- and garner trust from the world for their organisation and their battleship, the Wunder.

Damn, I never even considered this a possibility. It certainly explains why Ritsuko was so condemning yet never fully elaborated on Shinji's "crimes". If your speculation is correct (I guess we will never truly know) then it is certainly a massive indictment on both Misato and Ritsuko. It would mean Shinji was certainly justified to bail when and how he did. It certainly helps to discuss these things with others because I never would have come up with this theory by myself.

Edit:

But 3.0 + 1.0 put an stop to that piece of theory crafting.

How so? Off the top of my head, the only elaboration we get from Shin on Shinji's actions in 2.0 is that Misato states that Shinji saved the world (multiple times) to which Sakura describes him as "our benefactor but also our enemy". She still tries to shoot him even after Misato took the first bullet indicating she has been heavily conditioned (propagandized?) in believing Shinji is someone dangerous. Or it could just be that she doesn't want Touji to die like her father did. The leaked dialogues are pretty scarce regarding this scene so I guess we can't fully know yet what was said about Shinji in the timeskip. In fact, I do not think the film even touches on this at all. In my opinion I do not believe that Misato and Ritsuko actively blamed and scapegoated Shinji as we have not yet seen any evidence from 3.0+1.0 that they did. But I do think that they may have deliberately neglected to correct the younger WILLE crew members when they rumoured Shinji to be Hitler 2.0. Nevertheless, WILLE do turn out looking like hypocrites in this film IMO. They were so hostile towards Shinji and condemned him to never pilot again but then they needed him to pilot Unit 1 again to fight his father. If Ritsuko got what she wanted and Misato had detonated the choker, then no-one would have stopped Gendo and they all probably would have died.

[Konja7]

Damn, I never even considered this a possibility. It certainly explains why Ritsuko was so condemning yet never fully elaborated on Shinji's "crimes". If your speculation is correct (I guess we will never truly know) then it is certainly a massive indictment on both Misato and Ritsuko. It would mean Shinji was certainly justified to bail when he and how he did. It certainly helps to discuss these things with others because I never would have come up with this theory by myself.

That theory/speculation isn't correct at all.

In 3.0+1.0, Misato wants to defend Shinji at some point. Misato even takes responsability, but only in the sense that Shinji is/was her subordinate (so Shinji's actions in 2.0 are her responsability).

[swagbuckking1]

In 3.0+1.0, Misato wants to defend Shinji at some point. Misato even takes responsability, but only in the sense that Shinji is/was her subordinate (so Shinji's actions in 2.0 are her responsability).

You are correct that Misato defends Shinji in the events of this film. But what I think wiser3754 is speculating on, is how Misato spoke of Shinji in the 14 year timeskip. Her and Ritsuko may (and I seriously stress, may) have put all the blame on Shinji as they might have presumed him to be dead and unable to defend his honor. They may have, as I theorize, neglected to actually clarify Shinji's role in NTI to which the younger WILLE crew decided to speculate endlessly until Shinji became a hated figure; not a 14 year old kid put in an unfortunate situation. If it is the former then this would have given Misato/Ritsuko a serious problem as their fall guy is actually alive and they are now faced with two options: Reveal to the WILLE crew that they lied. That Shinji was basically groomed by his father into starting NTI and he is just as much a victim as everyone else and needs protection/compassion. Or they could double-down and vilify him with the choker to keep the narrative going so as not to tick of the crew who think he is a walking holocaust. Misato may have come to her senses and defended Shinji when she saw that he was about to be shot and he might be their last hope. But this does not reveal what she actually spoke of him when he was actually gone. And we may never truly know.

But as I said before wiser3754's idea is, for me, an extremely interesting theory that certainly provoked some thoughts. I am inclined to believe however, that Misato wouldn't have actively scapegoated Shinji during the timeskip but I guess we will never truly know.

[ElMariachi]

All right, firstly, there are two very important point to keep in mind about WILLE's handling of Shinji in Q:

1. They were telling him everything, it's just that there was a lot to unpack and they were interrupted in the middle of it by Mark.09's attack. (and its timing is just so perfect that I'm still sure that somehow Gendo was spying on them)

2. They didn't started with the "critical" points (Gendo and NERV are evil, Rei has been cloned a ton of time and whoever you can meet will not be her) because they didn't know that neo-NERV was after him, so for them they had the time to take things slowly. When Mark.09 take away Shinji, Ritsuko exclaim with surprise "They aren't after Unit 01, that means that Shinji still has his potential as an Impact Trigger! Misato, activate the DSS Choker!"

3. Shinji didn't left just because WILLE was mean to him, he left because he thought that Misato was lying to him, both on the fact that he didn't saved Rei and that 14 years really passed: his first words when he saw "Rei" again was that Misato lied to him, and when he saw the ruins of NERV HQ that "so it really was 14 years ago".


The first two points are also why Misato immediately threaten Shinji with the DSS remote while desperately trying to give him the vital pieces of context missing (Gendo, WILLE, Rei, that WILLE are here to protect him...) to at least make him hesitate long enough for Mari and Asuka to deploy and drive Mark.09 away.

As I said in the non-spoiler forum, Q is a giant domino disaster of miscommunications, some involuntary, some engineered by Gendo and SEELE to advance their plans, which culminated into the clusterfcuck in Lilith's Chamber and Fourth Impact.


Now for your questions :

Why Ritsuko told him that his DSS Choker was a symbol of his punishment and their mistrust, instead of telling him that every pilot had to wear a DSS Choker?
Because that wasn't relevant to his case: for Asuka and Mari, it's a necessary precaution because any pilot can awake their Eva and start an Impact (if it was just Asuka you could say that it was because of the 9th Angel living inside her, but Mari too has one), and for them it symbolize the responsibility they shoulder of protecting everyone, even at the cost of their own life if they screw up.

But for Shinji, it was a way to punish him for N3I and keep a leash on him, because they don't trust him. And there's also the fact that despite his synchronization with 01 being at 0% (thanks to Rei's interference), he still awoke it briefly during Operation US, so that mean that there are still things fishy with him and he could still pilot, so he gets a DSS Choker like every Eva pilots. (in fact, I wouldn't be surprised that Ritsuko also did a synch test with his data and Units 02 and 08 and found out that there was a bit of synchronization)

In short: constantly wearing a DSS Choker is obligatory for every Eva pilots, Shinji can potentially still pilot an Eva, so he gets a DSS Choker, the main difference is that for WILLE's pilots it's a precautionary measure, while for Shinji it also has the added "function" to punish him. Note that at the end of Shin, when Shinji puts another DSS Choker to reassure WILLE that he won't screw up with EVA-01 this time, he too wears it not as a symbol of punishment, but of his acceptance of the burden to protect everyone even at the cost of his life, like Asuka and Mari.


But why did they even put a DSS Choker on him if they never intended to have him pilot ever again?
Because they have a grudge against him. Yeah it's ugly, but it's the truth. I remember before Shin was released that we had furious debates on why WILLE put a DSS Choker on him, that they must have a good reason that we don't know because we're stuck with Shinji's POV, but it turned out that they didn't, they just had a beef against him, so put a DSS Choker on him because he potentially still can pilot, and add a "punishment" layer to it.


My current theory is that since Shin confirmed that the events of the Next Time Preview at the end of 2.0 actually happened, Misato and her staff were sent in custody to be interrogated on what happened, leaving Kaworu and SEELE free reign to directly control NERV (Kaji managed to convince them that he's on their side thanks to his super-spy mojo) and implement their Third Impact, and Misato and Co weren't in a position to stop them before they could start it or at least could had stopped it sooner, before it turned nearly the entire planet to core (either they were kept in custody until shit hit the fan, or they were reintegrated into NERV but carefully monitored and apart from the new leadeship's decisions), and looking at 02's missing arm and chunk of skull in Q, it's probable that SEELE never bothered to repair it, leaving Misato and Co without an Eva to try to stop Mar.06, which led to Kaji sacrificing himself to stop 3I before everything was lost.

In short, the leading feeling among WILLE is that if it weren't for that idiot Shinji triggering N3I, they would had been in a position to prevent Third Impact, kinda forgetting that the kid didn't know what would happen and was as much a pawn as everyone else.

Note that their "hate" isn't actual frothing at the mouth hate like we (and Shinji) could had feared, because when shit hit the fan and that Shinji proposed to pilot one last time, most of them agreed that it was the only solution and that since he's willing to put a DSS Choker to make sure things won't go to hell, then he must be trustworthy enough. Misato even kinda admit that they have been dicks and unfair to him when they have their last (and only?) talk just before he boards Unit 01.

The only exceptions in WILLE are those that have lost people to Shinji's N3I itself: Midori and Sakura, and even then the latter decided to give him a chance and from what I understood, her trying to shoot Shinji was a reaction of pure panic triggered by the situation being desperate and WILLE's (and humanity) impending doom, making her reach a breaking point.

Ironically, the most physically aggressive person toward Shinji in Q (Asuka) was the one that had a grievance about something that genuinely was his fault (not doing anything against Bardiel), while the rest of the crew was unfair to him. (and Midori and Sakura still had good reason to not like him)

And we can't exclude the possibility that putting a DSS Choker on him was also a way to reassure the crew that the dreaded Impact Trigger was under control.


Did Misato actually intended to maybe make him pilot again in the future?
Technically that could had been possible, but I would still say no.

Unlike what we could had thought in Q, Shinji doesn't have a special power that Asuka and Mari lack that would justify him never touching an Eva again, it was simply a question of mind: Shinji is too mentally unreliable to be trusted with such powerful weapons. (his mind is too weak as Asuka says it in Shin)

Besides Shin revealed that 02 and 08 are the only Evas that WILLE have at their disposal, and both's pilots have now a decade and half of experience piloting them (and were trained for it since even longer), so there's no added value that Shinji could bring by being added to the pilot roster (replacing a veteran pilot by a rookie-ish one will be a disadvantage in an operation), the only way for him to get to pilot again would be a hypothetical scenario where he stayed longer in the Wunder and that Mari or Asuka end up injured and unable to pilot and Shinji takes her place to support the other pilot (a rookie-ish pilot is still a better support than no support at all) in a repeat of episode 1 of NGE (and the beginning of 1.0) and that after proving himself, WILLE accept to make him a "spare pilot".

The only way I could envision him becoming a real full-time pilot again would be if WILLE actually had another Eva to assign to him, but they don't. (you can envision some scenarios, like a captured and modified Mark.07 for him, but we're veering into fanfiction territory here)

But ironically (or tragically, but the two often go together) I really doubt that Shinji would had gained the maturity he displayed in Shin (or at least not nearly as fast) had he stayed in Wunder from the beginning, because it's his new fuck-up in Lilith's Chamber, one that was undoubtedly his fault (even if you can squeeze some extenuating circumstances like the fact that Kaworu didnt' explained what would those spears do, or that Asuka preferred trying to put him down instead of trying to convince him to stop) and led to the very direct consequence of the death of his best friend right in front of him, that started his journey to introspection and maturity in identifying his capital flaws.

And there's still the emotional baggage of Misato toward Shinji that would had made things difficult, see below.


Why did Misato acted so OOC towar Shinji in Q? She still cared about him, as shown later she still does care about him!
Because she's immensely conflicted toward Shinji: on one hand, she (at least partially) blames him for leading to the destruction of world (whether it was a direct consequence or was the first piece of the domino disaster that led to it) and ultimately Kaji's sacrifice and for abandoning everyone (and especially her), but on the other hand deep down she knows that she's being unfair toward him, that he was a pawn of his father and SEELE's schemes like everyone else, and that he sacrificed so much to protect humanity against the Angels.

Add to that her guilt for failing Shinji as a mentor and mother figure (she didn't managed to convince him to stay after the EVA-03 fiasco), for cheering on him while he was massacring Zeruel, massacre that led to N3I, her guilt for not having been able to stay with Kaji until the end and die alongside him because of her pregnancy. Misato is torn between her anger toward Shinji and her feeling of failure as a commander, as a parental figure and as a lover. And her way to cope with her anger and guilt has been to completely bury herself in the WILLE cause at the exclusion of everything else in her life, even her biological son (Kaji Jr doesn't even know who are his parents!), and looking at the very formal and professional way they talk in Q, she seems to also had excluded Asuka from her life beyond the strictly professional (that's probably why Kensuke ended as Asuka's parental figure)

And that's how you obtain the mess that we see in Q: someone that act completely cold toward Shinji because she's been in 100% professional mode/Captain Nemo mode for 14 years, and yet she can't bring herself to kill him and kept his old plugsuit for 14 years.

The only person that can still reach the old Misato is Ritsuko, due to their old friendship.


Why did Ritsuko antagonized Shinji so much? She's an intelligent woman and knew that it would be counter-productive! Besides why did she changed the subject when Shinji was asking questions to Misato about WTF did all that mean?
Again, WILLE thought that neo-NERV and SEELE wouldn't go after him, so she never knew that they actually were on a time limit before Mark.09 would come for him and that they should give him ASAP the vital pieces of information to make him understand that going with NERV was a bad idea.

Also, Ritsuko has always been someone very blunt who never sugarcoat anything, so she wouldn't' change that just to make Shinji feel better (especially since she thought that they had all the time to explain everything to him at their own rhythm), but she's not an automaton, she too has feelings, especially her friendship toward Misato, and I think that when she changed subject when Shinji directly asked to Misato why was he punished and why did she placed a bomb around his neck, she was actually protecting Misato from having to talk with Shinji, again because Misato is torn between conflicting emotions.

[Konja7]

But as I said before wiser3754's idea is, for me, an extremely interesting theory that certainly provoked some thoughts. I am inclined to believe however, that Misato wouldn't have actively scapegoated Shinji during the timeskip but I guess we will never truly know.

Yeah. I don't think Misato would use Shinji as scapegoated.

In fact, there is a talk Midori with another WILLE member (I don't remember his name). He mentioned Midori that Near Third Impact wasn't intencional from Shinji. However, Midori doesn't care, since she loss all her family in NTI.

This imply that WILLE members know the events.

[Axx°N N.]

To be fair, Ritsuko is benefited (like any human) by a restored World.

I think the point is that she won't hesitate to kill any dangerous person.

That's a fair point, although the fact that she's putting her life in danger seems to paint her motivations as at least somewhat altruistic.

Plus, you could reasonably argue that in her view, cold treatment of one dangerous person is worth it to protect infinitely more other lives. So to me, the value of human life is still something she would be factoring to a great extent.