Superhero/Comic Based Films & Tv - Vol.2

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Superhero/Comic Based Films & Tv - Vol.2

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Postby movieartman » Mon May 22, 2017 10:09 pm

Last thread reached page 100, so I thought I would create a new thread.
thread/16318/Superhero-Films-and-TV/

What we have coming up for anyone not following the other thread...

Avengers - Infinity War - May 4th - 2018...

Thor - Ragnarok - Nov 3rd...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7MGUNV8MxU

Justice League - Nov 17th...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gglkYMGRYlE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cxixDgHUYw
Zack Snyder's daughter committed Suicide in March and he has stepped away from the film & is allowing Joss Whedon to direct additional scenes. Whedon will also be directing a Batgirl movie.

Wonder Woman - June 2nd...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lGoQhFb4NM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Q8fG0TtVAY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INLzqh7rZ-U
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSB4wGIdDwo

Spider-Man - Homecoming - July 2nd...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rk-dF1lIbIg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DiTECkLZ8HM
New trailer coming this Wednesday.

Venom - October 5th 2018...
Made by Sony not connected to the MCU or presumably the Andrew Garfield Spider-Man-verse.
Tom Hardy is playing Eddie Brock.

The Gifted - TBA...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTzW9rMcbzk

The Defenders - 8 episodes - Aug 18th...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4h3m7B4v6Zc

Aquaman - Dec 21st 2018...
SPOILER: Show
Image
Image


Black Lightning - TBA...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZpJeuXo2CY

The past thread got bogged down in heated arguments over the DCEU, much of which was my fault, I apologize, let's all (myself included) try & keep things more positive/friendly this thread & not take film criticism & interpretation so personally.

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Re: Superhero/Comic Based Films & Tv - Vol.2

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Postby Ray » Tue May 23, 2017 4:17 pm

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Postby Chuckman » Tue May 23, 2017 4:50 pm

I'm sure as shit going to attack Joss Whedon though. Looking forward to all those loving shots of Gal Gadot's feet.
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Postby Ray » Tue May 23, 2017 5:32 pm

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Postby Chuckman » Tue May 23, 2017 5:55 pm

View Original PostRay wrote:Lots of jokes, lots of romanticism, none of the dark tone that was DC was trying


Good, maybe we can get a Superman who smiles and doesn't look put out when saving people and a science hero Batman who isn't a brooding psycopathic murderer.

What The DCCU needs is a plan, a coherent direction, and a house style. Smartest thing they could do is learn from Marvel and sit down a team of writers and plan shit out, set up a feel for each hero and decide how they're going to handle the look and tone of the group movies.

That's how you prevent Watchmen II from happening again.
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Postby Ray » Tue May 23, 2017 6:25 pm

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Postby movieartman » Tue May 23, 2017 6:43 pm

I have heard nothing to suggest Joss will have any control over the future of the Dceu aside from his Batgirl movie.
I imagine Matt Reeves & Jenkins (if WW is as well liked as it sounds to be so far) will oversee things more then him.

View Original PostRay wrote:Furthermore. Given how his vision when it came to Avengers and Age Of Ultron impacted Marvel going forward.

I am not really sure that they really did have all that much impact. They seemed more a extension of the style of the Iron Man films.
I think Winter Solider's style & tone influenced Civil War & moving forward Black Panther.
While Gotg influenced Thor 3 & obviously it's own sequel.

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Postby Bagheera » Tue May 23, 2017 7:23 pm



Nah. The point of the MoS complaints isn't that Supes never smiles, but rather the overall tone of the piece. It's dour, and that's not what Superman is supposed to be.

And no, it's not up to Batman to make those judgements. No one gets to make those judgements of their own volition; that's why we have courts of law instead of people like Judge Dredd running around. And if you say the courts don't work you're just selectively ignoring tropes to make your argument, because the reason the courts don't work in DC is so the villains can get out and the heroes can fight them again. In the real world? They're be put away and that would be the end of it, time to move on.

On Whedon: I'm kinda over him myself, but like movieartman suggests you're assigning him waaaaay too much power and influence in the MCU. Iron Man set the tone for pretty much the entire MCU, and Whedon had nothing to do with that. Whedon did have a fair bit of input into phase II, but the overall project is still the brainchild of Jon Favreau and Kevin Feige. IOW Whedon's not a showrunner, so just relax already.
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Postby Chuckman » Tue May 23, 2017 7:26 pm

View Original PostRay wrote:TLDW? By letting these sociopaths like Joker live? Batman IMO being FAR more irresponsible and killing far more people through inaction than he is by killing unrepentant child rapists, human traffickers, and domestic terrorists.


Okay, first of all you're assuming that capital punishment is morally acceptable as part of your argument. I don't want to get in trouble but let me just say: I don't think that even the government should have the power to kill someone. So obviously I disagree with a self-appointed vigilante killing people without due process or trial.

What makes the Batman character interesting to me is that despite his terror tactics and theatrical methods, Batman is fundamentally concerned with preventing death. The point of dressing up as a bat to fight crime isn't to take out his urges on criminals or hurt people because he was hurt. The painful, grinding lifestyle of being Batman is a sacrifice for the greater good to prevent other people from suffering the way he has.

The Joker Escapes meme needs to die. The Joker doesn't go on regular rampages because Batman is morally justified in killing him but chooses not to but because the Joker sells comic books, and as I keep saying, the fetish among nerds for "continuity" is the death of storytelling.

Watchmen was FINE.


Yes, it was, but we've had this discussion before. I don't know why you keep jumping on this weird line of argument.

Yeah, I like Watchmen but I don't want everything to be Watchmen. I enjoy some dark stories (dark in this instance is a really ill-defined term but...) but I don't want everything to be dark.

I want some variety! I've seen dark gothic Batman, dark gritty realistic Batman, dark neon campy Batman. Can we have a new take on it that isn't a retread of Frank Miller or Adam West?

Furthermore, there's nothing wrong with a darker cinematic universe. I've said before that DC needs to differ it's brand from Marvel with bigger stakes, bigger themes, and darker subject matter without quarantining it to Netflix. Or else nobody will EVER take them seriously and only see them as a derivative. Whatever, i've talked it to death. Bottom line? With Joss Whedon in charge? Yeah, not looking forward to DC's future.


There's nothing wrong with a dark universe but why does it have to be this one?

You realize that no one takes the DCCU seriously now, right? The Snyderverse is a loveless, suit-directed excerise in taking elements from Marvel's business strategy, Nolan, Watchmen, and blending them all together with the graphic novel shelf at Barnes and Noble.
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Statistical fact: Cops will never pull over a man with a huge bong in his car. Why? They fear this man. They know he sees further than they and he will bind them with ancient logics. —Marty Mikalski

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Postby movieartman » Tue May 23, 2017 7:32 pm

For fuck's sake...
Edge of Tomorrow's Doug Liman leaves Justice League Dark...

The news certainly comes as a shocker, especially considering Liman very recently teased the film's fresh take on John Constantine, but according to the report, his departure can be attributed to scheduling conflicts as he is already onboard to direct Lionsgate's Chaos Walking, which recently received the greenlight and has Tom Holland (Spider-Man: Homecoming) and Daisy Ridley (Star Wars: The Last Jedi) attached to star.

God please, PLEASE don't let anything go wrong with Reeves or Wan...

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Postby MuscleRobo » Wed May 24, 2017 6:58 am

View Original PostChuckman wrote:I'm sure as shit going to attack Joss Whedon though. Looking forward to all those loving shots of Gal Gadot's feet.


I had the same thought. It must be torture to him editing the film in post production when he comes to a shot that is cut off at the ankles. Catwoman is going to be tremendously awful to make up for his frustrations.

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Postby Chuckman » Wed May 24, 2017 5:12 pm

Foot fetishism makes me Incredibly, irrationally angry and I don't know why, so when Avengers opened up with Gwyneth Paltrow's feet I was temporarily infuriated until Robert Downey, Jr's smooth delivery eased my soul and lifted my spirits.

I think that's why I hate Tarantino. That and his chin.

I'm also pretty down on Whedon's "hooker with a heart of gold" fetishism, waif-fu, and weird fixation on damaged heroines and beauty and the beast archetypes. Marvel has reined him in pretty successfully since he pretty much vented all of those urges into Black Widow and we can just ignore her sterile sexy ballerina assassin flashbacks when she's in the Cap movies when she actually turns into an interesting character.

Edit: Seriously look at this shit:

1. Cap: Man out of time in a world he doesn't understand and doesn't understand him/American values vs American realities
2. Hulk: This man... this monster!
3. Hawkeye: What the hell am I even doing here?
4. Iron Man: I can be a hero... but that doesn't make me a good person
5. Thor: What does it mean to be worthy?
6. Black Widow: Oh no I can't babies!

I mean, really. Yeah she does have other character traits but when he went to develop/give her flashbacks he went the easy way.

That's why I say D.C. really needs a head of the entire DCCU project who will reign in the excesses of the directors and maintain a house style, as well as choose the creative teams who work best for a given project. (Protip: If you're making a movie about a superpowered man who came from the sky to do only good, keep the Watchmen and Nolan Batman people Way from it)
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Postby Ray » Wed May 24, 2017 5:44 pm

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Re: Superhero/Comic Based Films & Tv - Vol.2

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Postby Bagheera » Wed May 24, 2017 5:51 pm

Tell it to Grant Morrison. I double dog dare ya.
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People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
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Postby FrDougal9000 » Wed May 24, 2017 6:07 pm

Justice League will more likely not be influenced by Whedon, who has been pulled in to do some last-minute assistant directing for the movie. This won't a Road to El Dorado situation, where the assistant directors had more involvement with the film than the 'main directors' (because said assistants WERE the directors for the film until they quit due to frustrations with the project). Whatever influence Whedon has on the final film will be minimal at best, and most of that will likely be the viewer seeing what they want to see.

(A character makes a witty remark from a script dated 8th Oct. 2016)

Viewer: I knew it! Joss Whedon has influenced and corrupted this project! He is totally the director for this film, and not the guy who did most of the legwork on it!


(I'm being facetious, just to make that clear.)

As for the news of Snyder's departure, I can only wish the best for the man. Nobody should have to deal with so much shit, be it personally and/or publically, and I absolutely support him dropping out to do what he can to make sure he and those around him are okay. I sincerely hope things get better for you, Snyder.
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Postby Chuckman » Wed May 24, 2017 6:11 pm

View Original PostRay wrote:Keep beating that dead horse why don't ya? God forbid we have that Super powered man act like a human being would in his situation!


That's boring.

He's not a human being. He just isn't, and that raises really interesting questions. How does the world react to a truly good man?

What's missing from the DCCU is the fundamental argument of Superman. He is the embodiment of the belief that humans are intrinsically good and the immoral things we do -our selfish, violent tendencies- are the result of our biological drives and needs. They are the Prison That is The Ape. Many many people over the years have jokingly claimed that Superman the comic book character has nothing to do with the Nietzchean ideal of the Superman, but they're completely wrong. Superman (the Man of Tomorrow) is what is beyond man, and your Lex Luthor figure is the Last Man of Nietsche's philosophy. (Most people don't get Nietzsche at all and think the things he was against, nihilism and the like, are his philosophy when they're the things he was railing against, and assume that the whole thing about casting off the morality of the slave and defining your own ethical system means you need to be an asshole or you're not actualized; that's not true at all, but I digress)

The interesting story questions from this assumption are boundless: What does good even mean? How does Superman actualize the absolute good that comes from the profound moral clarity his powers give him? How do people respond to it, to him? How does he resolve the problem of evil that comes about from his own existence? What is he justified in doing, or not doing, to bring about goodness? Is he morally obligated to be Superman all the time and never sleep? Should he just take over the world? Why? Why not?

You could make so many interesting Superman movies, so full of drama and spectacle and grandeur, without even having an actual supervillain in them... but there's so many that have never been touched! Let's go right to Lex Luthor and Zod, forget about the whole DC rogue's gallery, unrestricted by thorny rights issues like Marvel is!

Buuuut instead of some actually interesting questions let's punch Zod and punch Batman and punch Doomsday and punch a guy through a brick wall but he's totally not dead.
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Statistical fact: Cops will never pull over a man with a huge bong in his car. Why? They fear this man. They know he sees further than they and he will bind them with ancient logics. —Marty Mikalski

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Postby Ray » Wed May 24, 2017 7:17 pm

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Re: Superhero/Comic Based Films & Tv - Vol.2

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Postby Guy Nacks » Wed May 24, 2017 7:20 pm

View Original PostChuckman wrote:Foot fetishism makes me Incredibly, irrationally angry and I don't know why, so when Avengers opened up with Gwyneth Paltrow's feet I was temporarily infuriated until Robert Downey, Jr's smooth delivery eased my soul and lifted my spirits.

I think that's why I hate Tarantino. That and his chin.


I think it amounts to a huge TMI on the part of the director revealing their personal sexual kinks and shoving them in the audience's faces. It's akin to your uncle loudly professing in public that he likes licking women's assholes after covering them with honey. It's awkward. Don't thrust your kinks in our faces. I really don't want mental imagery of Whedon sniffing feet or a family member performing obscene sex acts. And this is coming from someone who finds feet somewhat attractive if they're taken care of (though not as high on my list of desirable attributes as a cute face and a toned petite figure with proportional, perky breasts.)

If I want to be titillated by kinky material, I'll go onto pornhub. There's a time and place.


@DC

I think it'll be interesting having someone like Whedon who knows how to inject more levity into a film, especially in a universe where it's so desperately needed. Even though he's just doing mostly post-stuff, it'll be cool to see if there's any sort of noticeable difference.

And also, the DC universe needs to stop being emo. I know that's a shit descriptor, but it's felt like that since MoS.

MAKE ME SMILE IN THE THEATER FOR ONCE AND NOT FOR UNINTENDED "OMG WHYDIDYOUSAYHERNAME MARTHAMARTHAMARTHA" BS.
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Postby Sachi » Wed May 24, 2017 7:31 pm

View Original PostRay wrote:I'll let movieartman tackle that. . . I'm not in the mood right now. I hear lot of complaining, but no proposals for solutions to flaws you see in Superman's character.

Has Chuck not gone over time and time again his ideal vision of a Superman movie? I'm sure he could repeat it again, but like you said, it'd just be beating a dead horse over again. Given that this thread is filled with nerds sticking to their guns, I'd say there's a lot of that happening all sides.

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Postby Chuckman » Wed May 24, 2017 8:32 pm

View Original PostGuy Nacks wrote:I think it amounts to a huge TMI on the part of the director revealing their personal sexual kinks and shoving them in the audience's faces. It's akin to your uncle loudly professing in public that he likes licking women's assholes after covering them with honey. It's awkward. Don't thrust your kinks in our faces. I really don't want mental imagery of Whedon sniffing feet or a family member performing obscene sex acts. And this is coming from someone who finds feet somewhat attractive if they're taken care of (though not as high on my list of desirable attributes as a cute face and a toned petite figure with proportional, perky breasts.)

If I want to be titillated by kinky material, I'll go onto pornhub. There's a time and place.


@DC

I think it'll be interesting having someone like Whedon who knows how to inject more levity into a film, especially in a universe where it's so desperately needed. Even though he's just doing mostly post-stuff, it'll be cool to see if there's any sort of noticeable difference.

And also, the DC universe needs to stop being emo. I know that's a shit descriptor, but it's felt like that since MoS.

MAKE ME SMILE IN THE THEATER FOR ONCE AND NOT FOR UNINTENDED "OMG WHYDIDYOUSAYHERNAME MARTHAMARTHAMARTHA" BS.


I like the mother thing. I like the idea that Batman has projected his own issues onto Superman. I like the idea of Batman's core fear not being bats (dumb, imo) but a more nebulous figure that haunts his dreams; he's terrified of a nebulous, faceless figure of overwhelming power that he feels utterly impotent against, a chaotic being that destroys his faith in an orderly universe (as a child, when an orderly universe means mommy will comfort and daddy will protect and neither can be harmed).

He masters these fears by adopting the guise of a supernatural, invincible creature in his vigilante career and by adopting the playboy persona as his secret identity: chaos took my mommy but now I can have all the women I want!

Then Superman comes along and ruins everything: He represents a deep unfairness that haunts Bruce (where was the Superman when mommy was killed?) and a power that haunts Batman; in Bruce's mind Superman is the towering terror of his childhood with a gun aimed at the world and Batman has a moral obligation to stop him.

Then when the climax comes and Bruce sees the similarity between them -Superman grew up, had a mother, a family, and now that's in danger- he has a moment of moral clarity when he realizes that justice is more important than vengeance and the purpose of Batman is to liberate people from fear, not control them with it.

BVS drifts towards this idea, moves towards it, hints at it, but never reaches it. The lead up is silly and the execution is terrible and the movie doesn't know who its characters are, so you get Lex playing the Joker while Batman plays Lex and Diana plays Catwoman and Superman plays Doctor Manhattan and it's not even clear he and Clark are the same person.

It's like a funhouse mirror version of a good movie, which is somehow worse than if it was simply mediocre and bland like the Green Lantern movie, for example.
the prophecy is true

Statistical fact: Cops will never pull over a man with a huge bong in his car. Why? They fear this man. They know he sees further than they and he will bind them with ancient logics. —Marty Mikalski


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