Impact Mechanics

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition"). The final instalment made its debut in Japan on March 8, 2021.

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Postby ElMariachi » Fri Nov 22, 2013 6:25 am

^
Well, that's just one of the many hints that something else happened after N3I that left the world in the state we see it in Q, because I doubt that N3I took much longer than N4I before being stopped.
It's clear that N4I didn't made more than material damages around the epicenter.

As for the second point, Asuka's line that they'll go somewhere "where the Lilin can pick them up" : the L-Barrier thing Asuka was measuring apparently prevent any rescue team to reach them, so they'll go to a place where said barrier density is low enough to let the rescue team(probably a VTOL sent by the Wunder or something similar) to land and pick them back to the Wunder or whatever place Shinji is supposed to reach that will teach him hope again.

Unless FINAL reveals that N4I wiped out all what was left of mankind except the trio of pilots and the Wunder crew... -o-;
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Postby monitoradiation » Sat Nov 23, 2013 12:56 pm

View Original Postwiser3754 wrote:Fourth Impact (Vortex is at least 5 times larger than N3I) had just come and gone and she's expecting to find a settlement or human activity shortly thereafter within walking distance. Ah, if N3I caused utter cataclysmic events to the world to unfold, why in hell is she expecting to find pockets of Humanity scattered around within WALKING DISTANCE FROM IT'S EPICENTRE?!


I assume that this is because N4I wasn't a complete impact whereas 3I was. Taking place at the same location, N4I must've had way less impact (hohoho) than 3I and I sometimes doubt anything changed much because of it aside from neo-Nerv HQ getting completely pulverized.

So it stands to reason that if people are outside of the effective zone of 3I, they'd be outside of the effective zone of N4I.
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Postby ElMariachi » Fri May 16, 2014 9:19 am

What wiser wondered is why Asuka expect mankind to have survived N4I when N3I, which was stopped as quickly if not more than N4I, is said by Kaworu to have obliterated the planet and destroyed almost all the biosphere.

That's why I said that it was another hint that something else after N3I happened between the end of 2.0 and 3.0 that left the world in the sorry state we saw it in Q.

EDIT : :resurrect:
In the Flood Maps topic, NemZ made this comparison map of 2I's vortex and the Antartica :
Image

Image

So according to that map, the center of the 2I vortex is located on the Amundsen–Scott research station, which is located on the Geographic South Pole, the southernmost place on Earth.
I also noticed that the vortex stops exactly at the Antarctic Circle 66° 34'S., which means that the 2I vortex is approximatively 5000km of diameter...
So that pussy 20km wide N3I vortex is supposed to have been more destructive than a 5000km wide!? WTF? :huh:

That location also raises a lot of questions : assuming that the center is the place where the four ADAMs were frozen, and thus where the Katsuragi Expedition had its base, then Dr Katsuragi was really unconscious to bring his daughter in that place which is of the most dangerous on Earth, and more importantly, the base is situated at a good 1500 km of the nearest coastline, so how the fuck Misato and her emergency escape pod ended in the sea!?

The only explanation I could think of is that the ADAMs were located not in the Geographic South Pole, but somewhere near the coastline, and that the bigass vortex opened not above them, but above the White Moon (or the Rebuild equivalent, let's call it White Moon for simplicity sake), which is located under the Amundsen–Scott research station (which could had been a covert SEELE base)


That raises a possibly important implication : what if while it's a SoL/Awakened Evangelion which starts the Impact by opening a small Door of Guf above its head, it's actually the White/Black Moon that opens the giant vortex to give it a planetary range!

Think about it : in 2.0 EVA-01 first opens a "small" vortex above its head :
[wkimg]File:Eva2-22 C1801.jpg[/wkimg]

then all of a sudden a big one opens just above the surface, ripping open the Geofront
[wkimg]File:Eva2-22 C1846.jpg[/wkimg]

Which extent to have a diameter of a good ten kilometers :
[wkimg]File:Eva2-22 C1856 vortex.jpg[/wkimg]
Since EVA-01 was just under, we assume that it's still it that opens and maintain that vortex, but maybe it only directly opened the small one above its head, and then the Black Moon reacted to it as an activation signal and opened a much bigger Door of Guf.
In short, the SoL/Awakened Eva open a small vortex, which make the nearer Moon react and open the big Door of Guf, which the SoL/Eva will use to do whatever terraforming/Instrumentality it wants.

When Mark.06 impaled EVA-01, it interrupted the activation code emitted by EVA-01 or sent a deactivation signal, which made the Black Moon stop keeping a giant Door of Guf opened.

That theory would explain many of the events surrounding the KE and 2I : they find the four ADAMs near the coastline, awake them, they make a small vortex above them, which activated the White Moon a couple thousands kilometers away. For some reason, the Door of Guf is much bigger than N3I seen in 2.0 and 4I in 3.0, maybe it's because there was 4 catalysts instead of only one, or maybe the WM was in better shape than the BM, or maybe the WM is just more powerful.
Anyway, as in NGE, something goes very wrong (or very right for SEELE), everything explodes and the four ADAMs ends flying away, one of them ending on the Moon, and 2I is interrupted. Yet for some reason the vortex above Antartica is still open, why?
I have two possible explanations :

- One (or more) of the ADAMs wasn't as damaged as the others and was still emitting an activation signal to the WM, but since it wasn't under the WM range anymore, it couldn't use the DoG to continue the terraforming process, leaving only a giant DoG opened for nothing above Antarctica. But that raise the question of why didn't that Angels tried to reach that ADAM instead of Lilith.

- assuming that a spear + deactivating SoL/Eva = deactivation signal, the big explosion that KO'd the ADAMs prevented the emission of a deactivation signal, leaving the WM still generating a DoG. That would explain why the Door is still open yet all terraforming stopped.


In 3.0 the case was slightly different : EVA-13's Awakening happened inside Lilith's Camber, at the center of the BM, so it's possible that it made the activation signal immediately reach the BM, explaining why a big DoG was opened immediately when EVA-13 reached the sky, without passing by the "small personal vortex" phase. That would also explain why the BM suddenly decided to emerge from the ground and float under the DoG : it was activated by EVA-13. Notices that the ruins of NERV HQ and the main shaft being several kilometers above ground already hints at the BM having begun its emergence earlier, certainly during N3I and/or whatever happened with the 12th Angel and Lilith.
Somehow, I can perfectly picture the WM gently floating above the antarctic ground, still generating a DoG, since 2I.

Anyway when EVA-13 impaled itself with the two spears and Mari ejected Shinji, deactivating the Eva, it reached the two conditions to send a deactivation signal, deactivating the BM, which stopped opening the DoG and crashed back on the ground.


It's also possible that the KE only found one of the ADAM in Antarctica, and upon awakening it from its slumber, it called his three pals who joined him and started Second Impact.
Assuming that the KE did the same thing than in NGE (injecting human DNA in the SoL to make the Forbidden Union) and that the Key of Neb is one of the ADAMs, that would explain why one of them was reduced to that small thing while the others were still intact upon finding : only one of them got the "Forbidden Union treatment".
Last edited by ElMariachi on Sat May 17, 2014 4:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

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Postby Jinroh » Fri May 16, 2014 12:52 pm

View Original PostElMariachi wrote:So that pussy 20km wide N3I vortex is supposed to have been more destructive than a 5000km wide!? WTF? :huh:

Since when? It destoyed only a part of the city.

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Postby ElMariachi » Fri May 16, 2014 3:09 pm

^
I was talking about how Kaworu basically said that N3I completely ravaged Earth and got all the planet the same treatment as the Hakone region, meaning that that this 20km wide vortex that lasted a good 10-15 minutes at most did that :
SPOILER: Show
[wkimg]File:Eva3-33 C0797 comp.jpg[/wkimg]


While that monster over here :
SPOILER: Show
[wkimg]File:Eva2-22 C0387 comp.jpg[/wkimg]

Could only turn the oceans red.

Which doesn't make sense.
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Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

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Postby Ray » Fri May 16, 2014 4:41 pm

Door of Guf, Room of Guf, this forum is making my head hurt!

Somebody make sense already!

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Postby Jinroh » Fri May 16, 2014 6:03 pm

View Original PostElMariachi wrote:I was talking about how Kaworu basically said that N3I completely ravaged Earth and got all the planet the same treatment as the Hakone region (...) Which doesn't make sense.

He's just implying that N3I was the beginning of the end, and I'm pretty sure it's been debated over and over again over the past year. You guys tend to over analyzing things when you theorize about Kaworu lying to Shinji and having an ulterior motive.

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Postby ElMariachi » Fri May 16, 2014 7:23 pm

View Original PostJinroh wrote:He's just implying that N3I was the beginning of the end, and I'm pretty sure it's been debated over and over again over the past year. You guys tend to over analyzing things when you theorize about Kaworu lying to Shinji and having an ulterior motive.

It's not just that, it's also the fact that his explanation doesn't fit at all with what we saw in 2.0 and later in Lilith's Chamber, or how he somehow didn't bothered to explain to Shinji that there was an Angel down there, or that he was the one who stopped N3I and that something else involving the 12th Angel and Lilith continued the job, or even mention the existence of SEELE, the true masterminds behind that madness.
That's a lot of omissions don't you think?
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Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

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Postby Sachi » Sat May 17, 2014 2:14 am

ElMariachi: I do like your theory and everything, but I think the bit about Unit-01's "mini-Guf" is a bit superfluous. You explain that Unit-01 at the end of 2.22 creates a mini-Guf which acts as a signal or catalyst for the Black Moon to activate its own larger Door of Guf, which appeared above the Geofront. I think it makes things overly complex and there are too many steps involved.

There has been quite a bit of talk and speculation about the two apparent Doors that open during the climax of 2.22, but I think the simplest explanation is that the second door is simply the same door re-manifesting itself above the surface, as opposed to staying contained within the Geofront. This explanation works just as well with your theory; Unit-01 awakens and signals the Black Moon to open the Doors of Guf, which first appears in the Geofront, then grows and expands beyond the surface.

One other nitpick I have with your theory is the idea that size matters. The Doors of Guf are metaphysical in nature and operate using magic and rules beyond comprehension; essentially the Doors of Guf are a plot device and they are capable of doing pretty much anything if the plot demands it. Impacts and the qualities associated with one are difficult to define because each one is so characteristically different and capable of doing any number of things, so long as it drives the plot forward. By itself, I do not consider the physical size difference between the different Doors to be of any consequence whatsoever.
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Postby ChaddyManPrime » Sat May 17, 2014 2:18 am

View Original PostRay wrote:Door of Guf, Room of Guf, this forum is making my head hurt!

Somebody make sense already!


Isn't it called The Chamber of Guf? Or is the Chamber behind the door?

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Postby ElMariachi » Sat May 17, 2014 5:06 am

View Original PostChaddyManPrime wrote:Isn't it called The Chamber of Guf? Or is the Chamber behind the door?

Okay sorry I used a lot of terms wrongly, time for a quick lesson :

- The "vortex" is what we call the whole thing appearing during an Impact : the giant red-ringed thing :
SPOILER: Show

The whole red and rainbow thing here :[wkimg]File:Eva2-22 C0387 comp.jpg[/wkimg]

Again, the whole red and white thing :
[wkimg]File:Eva2-22 C1856 vortex.jpg[/wkimg]

Same thing here, the whole black and rainbow ringed thing :
[wkimg]File:Eva3-33 C1418.jpg[/wkimg]


- The Door of Guf, according to the CRC and Groundworks, is the black center of the center, where the hole in the fabric of reality is situated, the gate to the other side :
SPOILER: Show
Same image, the Door is the big black thing on the center :[wkimg]File:Eva3-33 C1418.jpg[/wkimg]

the Door of Guf + the energy rainbow rings = the vortex



- And the Chamber of Guf is what's on the other side of the Door, the other dimension/plan of existence/metaphysical plane/whatever the fuck there's here, to reach the Chamber of Guf you need to open the Door. The mysterious round structure seen during Fourth Impact in 3.0 is situated inside the Chamber of Guf, on the other side of the Door :
SPOILER: Show
[wkimg]File:Eva3-33 C1429.jpg[/wkimg]

The fact that the floating neo-NERV HQ is nowhere to be seen when Fourth Impact is stopped, as well as the fact that the last place Gendo and Fuyu are seen looks like the Wunder Command Post but with the camera only emitting completed darkness led to the theory that they escaped inside the Chamber of Guf to preparethemselves for the final stage of their plan safely and quietly.


---
@ Sachi: Well my theory was mainly to explain the discrepancy between the center of 2I's vortex and the fact that Misato ended on the sea, which is supposed to be 1500km away, and still able to see the wings of lights as if the ADAMs were only a few kilometers away.

As for the "mini-vortexes", that was essentially a blind guess : due to the art-style of Misato's flash-back of 2I, we can't see if the ADAMs have opened a vortex above their head. It could also be as you said.
Now for the correlation between the size of the vortex and its effects, as always we know so little about what really happened during the time skip that we can only guess.
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Postby Sachi » Sat May 17, 2014 10:30 am

View Original PostElMariachi wrote:@ Sachi: Well my theory was mainly to explain the discrepancy between the center of 2I's vortex and the fact that Misato ended on the sea, which is supposed to be 1500km away, and still able to see the wings of lights as if the ADAMs were only a few kilometers away.

Which still holds up nicely, despite my nitpicks. The idea that the Geofront produces the vortex as opposed to the Eva is an interesting one indeed.
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Postby ElMariachi » Sat May 17, 2014 4:21 pm

^
So that would mean that a way to be completely sure that world-threatening Impacts will never happen again would be to destroy the Black and White Moon, a shame those things are made from a material able to withstand being insertion via planetary crashing! :lol:
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Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

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Postby ChaddyManPrime » Sat May 17, 2014 4:58 pm

Okay so what I'm wondering is, when Lilith harvests souls do they go into Guf? Is that where souls go when an Impact occurs?

Another thing, is there only one chamber? By that I mean does one chamber exist in all the multiverse if a multiverse does indeed exist in the Evaverse? Does that chamber then house multiple versions of the characters from all across the Multiverse?

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Postby ElMariachi » Sat May 17, 2014 5:23 pm

^
How should I know? I'm not Anno! :lol:

Anyway what I can answer you is the first question : in EoE Rei/Lilith made the souls transit via the Chamber of Guf to transfer them inside the Black Moon (the big black orb floating between her hands), here IIRC the Door of Guf was the vagina-stigmata on her hands.
Needless to say, Rebuild's DoG is much more kids-friendly! :lol:
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EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

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Postby ChaddyManPrime » Sat May 17, 2014 5:27 pm

^
Broham I thought you had more information than me :spout:

Thank you for at least answering the Lilith part :D

Would it be possible that the chamber also exists in the egg? I guess I mean does the egg have a pocket universe in it that could be the same chamber?

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Postby airman4 » Sat May 17, 2014 5:30 pm

View Original PostChaddyManPrime wrote:Okay so what I'm wondering is, when Lilith harvests souls do they go into Guf? Is that where souls go when an Impact occurs?

Another thing, is there only one chamber? By that I mean does one chamber exist in all the multiverse if a multiverse does indeed exist in the Evaverse? Does that chamber then house multiple versions of the characters from all across the Multiverse?


Initialy the chamber of guf is where the Unborn resides...

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Postby ChaddyManPrime » Sat May 17, 2014 5:33 pm

^
I thought that was just in the mythology from where the idea comes from?

Wouldn't another way of saying that would be that those without a body reside in the chamber until they are given a physical body?

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Postby ElMariachi » Sat May 17, 2014 5:49 pm

Didn't Ritsuko said in episode 23 that they opened the Door of Guf, but that the Chamber was "empty"? (ie all the souls residing in it already left)
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Postby ChaddyManPrime » Sat May 17, 2014 6:32 pm

^
Probably meant something akin to there are no more souls to be born. By The Way how would she know? Can she peer into other dimensions somehow?


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