KawoShin



On the beach



In the village



That obscure object of desire



Family



LAidaShikinami



Mari up to her usual tricks



KawoRei



碇サクラ

Kendrix wrote:Personally I firmly assume that Shinji ended upspending ages 15 to 20 with the Suzuharas (unless Misato lives - heck even then it seems more likely)

Honestly, I really doubt Shinji will live with Touji. Touji says Shinji can stay in Village 3, but I've never feel Shinji will really accept this offer.

In fact, in Village 3, Shinji lives with Kensuke and Asuka. Honestly, I think Kensuke helps Shinji more at that time.

As I said, I think Rei will likely end up living with Touji's family (since she seems to have Rei Q memories). So, I really doubt Shinji will live there, since he wants Rei to have her own place.

This drawing Kaworu made me think: does the ritual of Q not include Kaworu and Shinji sacrificing themselves to use the spears like Yui and Gendo did in 3.0 + 1.0? Kaworu's vagueness makes me suspicious that it does.

Konja7 wrote: In itself, Shinji wouldn't exactly have a place in Village 3, especially if he wants Kaworu and Rei (and Asuka to a lesser extent) to find their own place and live for themselves

With all due respect, aren't you being a little over the top? Can't Shinji see them because if he does they will abandon their own lives and return to the first square? You talk like he's some manipulative and selfish bastard like Gendo. Can't he just be their friend? Can't him even visit his other friends like Toji, Hikari or Kensuke? Not even Misato or Kaji Jr? I think it was ElMariachi who said that the ending was an meta message from Anno saying goodbye and leaving Eva forever and I will agree with him on that one, I think it is very wrong that he will never be able to see his friends again.

Konja7 wrote: Now, Mari doesn't seem a parental figure for Shinji. There is a flirty vibe between them. Also, although we discover Mari should be older, she still behave like the age she looks.

ElMariachi wrote: She could be a lover and a mentor figure thought.

I didn't see the movie, but I saw several clips including Shinji waiting for Mari on the beach. It was extremely meta oriented, with the whole world gaining color, life and definition and I can recognize that goofy smile anywhere (I also have one of those for the same reason!) and the analogy of Mari being a tsunami entering his life is obvious! I can guarantee these aren't signs of a mentor and maternal figure coming into his life!

ElMariachi wrote: she don't need a girlfriend, but a mother" line from what I read),

I understood it a little differently. She was talking about herself and Rei. Just before Kensuke arrived Asuka was half-naked and complaining about Shinji: “Uhn! At my naked body, why don't you don't blush a bit or be impressed? ”. Honestly, I don't know if she was kidding or being serious! With Asuka both things are possible! She tries to feed him and take care of him but her emotions are troubled and potentially dangerous for Shinji as Asuka has the strength to break him like a stick. After Shiniji runs away and Rei Q appears Asuka kind of warns that Rei Q's emotions are the result of her creation by Nerv (she must know that Rei is a modified Yui clone), but Rei Q doesn't care much, talk with Shinji and he leaves the mindfuck. It was Rei Q (the mother) who took him out of the mindfuck and not Asuka (the crush).

When Rei Q dies, Shinji willingly returns to Wunder which is a sign of maturity that even surprises Asuka. Later, when Asuka goes to pick up the new plugsuits and considers them burial clothes. She will visit Shinji with Mari as a moral support. She makes the confession and tells Mari that she was relieved. During the final fight it becomes obvious that an Asuka was getting ready to go kamikaze. It all culminates on the beach where Shnji makes his confession and Asuka breaks the mask, but she can't deal with the time lost between them and turns her back so he doesn't see her showing weakness. And Mari says goodbye to her too! It was her decision and Shinji respected it. There is no right or wrong in these things, but there may be regret that she will have to deal with. See that scene and hear and Utada Hikaru subtitled below affected me a lot:

Utada Hikaru (宇多田ヒカル) - One Last Kiss (Kan/Rom/Eng Lyrics)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRrQcHnIfc8

one-eyed wrote:This drawing Kaworu made me think: does the ritual of Q not include Kaworu and Shinji sacrificing themself to use the spears like Yui and Gendo did in 3.0 + 1.0? Kaworu's vagueness makes me suspicious that it does.

Kaworu will likely need sacrifice himself to the ritual of Q. However, I don't think Shinji 'S sacrifice would be necessary.

In Shin, Kaworu takes the control of the Instrumentality for a while and ask Shinji what he wish. I think something similar would happened if the lances in Q were the correct.

I suspect Kaworu with Eva 13 will sacrifice himself and protect Shinji.


In fact, it is possible Gendo doesn't need to sacrifice himself in 3.0+1.0. He could just be following Yui in this situation.

one-eyed wrote:
With all due respect, aren't you being a little over the top?

Maybe. It is just my interpretations that Shinji is saying goodbye to his friends in the Instrumentality.

I don' think Shinji is manipulating people. However, I think the relationship with Shinji has stalled Kaworu, Rei and Asuka on some level

So, Asuka, Kaworu and Rei need to "move on" without Shinji. That's why I think Shinji will live apart from them.

one-eyed wrote:See that scene and hear and Utada Hikaru subtitled below affected me a lot:

Utada Hikaru (宇多田ヒカル) - One Last Kiss (Kan/Rom/Eng Lyrics)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRrQcHnIfc8

Indeed, especially with the lines "I already know, even at the end of this world" (post-NTI world), "The person I can't forget" (Shinji?) and "even if I grow old" (14 years timeskip). I don't know if those lines were a coincidence or intentional but from all the characters the one that could have these thoughts is Asuka. She is the only one that explicitly had romantic feelings for Shinji, and this song may prove that things didn't change at all.

Konja7: Kaworu said that it takes two souls to use the two spears, so two sacrifices are needed. This is Deicide: when a god dies to create a new world. In this case there would be two. In 3.0 + 1.0 it would be Shinji and Yui( her soul was with him all the time), but Gendo takes his place from him in Unit 13. He couldn't bear to stay in a world without Yui and with no means of reaching her. So he chose to die and be obliterated from existence with her, in place of Shinji.

Raikyu: I thought that too! Seeing Asuka, alone, isolated, sitting in a far corner with that cell phone / game like when she was at Kensuke's house devastated me.

one-eyed wrote:Konja7: Kaworu said that it takes two souls to use the two spears, so two sacrifices are needed. This is Deicide: when a god dies to create a new world. In this case there would be two. In 3.0 + 1.0 it would be Shinji and Yui( her soul was with him all the time), but Gendo takes his place from him in Unit 13. He couldn't bear to stay in a world without Yui and with no means of reaching her. So he chose to die and be obliterated from existence with her, in place of Shinji.

Two souls are needed to use the spears (and activate the Instrumentality). However, only one sacrifice seems to be needed.

Shinji and Gendo activated the Instrumentality in Shin. However, Shinji takes control of the Instrumentality (Shinji would be the only God) and he seems to be the only sacrifice needed.


I've seen the sacrifice scene. Shinji seems to be the only sacrifice until Yui/Eva-01 appears to take his place (Shinji doesn't expect her appearance at that time). After that Eva-13/Gendo appears.

So, I think Gendo is just following Yui in the sacrifice, but his sacrifice isn't really needed.

one-eyed wrote:Raikyu: I thought that too! Seeing Asuka, alone, isolated, sitting in a far corner with that cell phone / game like when she was at Kensuke's house devastated me.

Oh, I forgot about the WonderSwan (it was a console released only in Japan) and how it represented her isolation/hedgehog's dilemma, just like Shinji's SDAT. Despite having different backgrounds, her internal fights are not really different from Soryu.

ElMariachi wrote:She could be a lover and a mentor figure thought.
I'm saying that because despite Kaworu telling Shinji that he needs to find a place to call home (and he repeats it in Shin) and Asuka saying that Shinji needs a parental figure (at least that's how I interpreted her "she don't need a girlfriend, but a mother" line from what I read), Shinji got neither, since as you said the rest of the characters already have taken a place in Village-3.
That's why Mari is at his side, because Shinji doesn't have anything or anyone else left aside the people now living in Village-3 (assuming they don't move somewhere else now that the world is retconned), he could come back to live with whoever was his guardian before he moved to Tokyo-3, but it didn't seemed to have any love between them (and it's implied that we worked for Gendo...).

For the epilogue somehow i agree more on the non-lovers connection between the Mari & Shinji. One of the reason is yes from that Asuka's line, i think it reserved for the last thing he needs. Others, such as how Mari is more "intimate" with Asuka, her real age difference. Not to mention some other "hard to decipher" things about her in NTE.
Mari could be someone or even something that gives hopes, happines, and joy to Shinji (as shown in returning colours) and that does not necessarily need to be a love interest. Could be a maternal figure, a close sister, a realy close friend, a mentor, a comrade etc.

The train station scene comes in very sudden, and we don't know whether there are any time skip or it just happened directly. Has there been any time long enough for them to bond some more connection ? Coz Shinji's behaviour toward her seems very differently than in any previous scene (and heck, tbh he doesn't act like the one we know all along). Is Shinji's different behaviour is the result of what he choose, to be a different person, a more "open" one, or is it due to his maturity (mental developement) in a world without eva.
Could it also because they have been gone through many things together as comrades or best pals or mentorship.
That "flirty thing" may also be just a gesture toward someone whom he feels fun to be with, not to a love intrest.

Well, if there are and will be no explanation nor hints from Anno, i guess it's all up to our interpretations anyway, as usual

one-eyed wrote:With all due respect, aren't you being a little over the top? Can't Shinji see them because if he does they will abandon their own lives and return to the first square? You talk like he's some manipulative and selfish bastard like Gendo. Can't he just be their friend? Can't him even visit his other friends like Toji, Hikari or Kensuke? Not even Misato or Kaji Jr? I think it was ElMariachi who said that the ending was an meta message from Anno saying goodbye and leaving Eva forever and I will agree with him on that one, I think it is very wrong that he will never be able to see his friends again.

I think you misunderstood, it's not that Shinji is toxic to them and that he needs to leave their lives forever, but that they need to find their own footing in this new life instead of having their lives revolving around him, so for that they'll need to live apart for some time, but that doesn't mean that they'll never meet again.

bogusman wrote:The train station scene comes in very sudden, and we don't know whether there are any time skip or it just happened directly. Has there been any time long enough for them to bond some more connection ? Coz Shinji's behaviour toward her seems very differently than in any previous scene (and heck, tbh he doesn't act like the one we know all along). Is Shinji's different behaviour is the result of what he choose, to be a different person, a more "open" one, or is it due to his maturity (mental developement) in a world without eva.
Could it also because they have been gone through many things together as comrades or best pals or mentorship.
That "flirty thing" may also be just a gesture toward someone whom he feels fun to be with, not to a love intrest.

If there wasn't Shinji's DSS Choker in the epilogue, the timeskip theory would be the more probable. (depending on your interpretation, there's also her line that he became cheeky that implies that this change was very recent, maybe even just happened)

As for why Shinji acts differently than usual, one theory is that Shinji received his memories from the past loops (the theory comes from his line to Kaworu that he remembers all the previous times they met), which would explain why he comes back in an adult body. (hell if the huge rows of open coffins wasn't a metaphor, Shinji could be mentally 200 years old for all we know!)
Maybe he and Mari met under better circumstances and got to know each other earlier and better in those past loops, and that's how they got close almost instantaneously, but that's fanwank at this point.

ElMariachi wrote:I think you misunderstood, it's not that Shinji is toxic to them and that he needs to leave their lives forever, but that they need to find their own footing in this new life instead of having their lives revolving around him, so for that they'll need to live apart for some time, but that doesn't mean that they'll never meet again.

The way they were shown in the epilogue i think it's meant to gives interpretation that they are going to meet in the future(although leaving with another direction of train but at least on the same reality)
And i'm pretty sure they'll meet again, when Khara needs some more financial stimulus in the future XD although maybe with other title, just like Clamp's Tsubasa Reservoir Chronicles

The yandere Sakura meme seems finally to have run its course

Guess who



More KawoRei



Asuka&Ryoji



KenKen Impact




Mari

Mr.Tines wrote: The yandere Sakura meme seems finally to have run its course.

I miss her already!

Konja7 wrote: So, I think Gendo is just following Yui in the sacrifice, but his sacrifice isn't really needed.

I disagree with you on this one, but without Anno confirming or denying we will never know. In addition, this would transform Gendo's "romantic sacrifice and redemption" into a simple suicide so as not to be punished with the loss of Yui.

Raikyu wrote: Oh, I forgot about the WonderSwan (it was a console released only in Japan) and how it represented her isolation/hedgehog's dilemma, just like Shinji's SDAT. Despite having different backgrounds, her internal fights are not really different from Soryu.

I had forgotten the name of the game, but the analogy is clear!

Bogusman wrote: Well, if there are and will be no explanation nor hints from Anno, i guess it's all up to our interpretations anyway, as usual

As usual

Bogusman wrote: And i'm pretty sure they'll meet again, when Khara needs some more financial stimulus in the future XD although maybe with other title, just like Clamp's Tsubasa Reservoir Chronicles

Or like Yashahime or Boruto which means a tepid and bland continuation.

ElMariachi wrote: I think you misunderstood, it's not that Shinji is toxic to them and that he needs to leave their lives forever, but that they need to find their own footing in this new life instead of having their lives revolving around him, so for that they'll need to live apart for some time, but that doesn't mean that they'll never meet again

I have seen some people claiming that Shinji should never see them again for this reason that you mentioned and found wrong, but considering that it would be a way to justify Gendo's treatment to Shinji maybe Anno would choose this route. I don't think that's the idea, but I think it's possible.

one-eyed wrote:I disagree with you on this one, but without Anno confirming or denying we will never know. In addition, this would transform Gendo's "romantic sacrifice and redemption" into a simple suicide so as not to be punished with the loss of Yui.

As you said, we can't confirm something unless Anno answer that.

That said, I really doubt Kaworu wanted that Shinji sacrificed his life in Q. It seems more likely Kaworu wants to carry all the burden/sacrifice of the ritual in Q. That's why I really think only one sacrifice was needed.

Gendo's sacrifice wouldn't be needed, but it would fit his character. Gendo is along with Yui and supporting her until the end.

one-eyed wrote:I have seen some people claiming that Shinji should never see them again for this reason that you mentioned and found wrong, but considering that it would be a way to justify Gendo's treatment to Shinji maybe Anno would choose this route. I don't think that's the idea, but I think it's possible.

I think it is left to interpretation whether they will meet again or not.

In no case do I think this tries to justify Gendo. The goodbye of Shinji to Asuka, Kaworu and Rei is filled with gratitude and hope that they have found a place, not fear and despair (like Gendo's abadonment to Shinji).

Konja7 wrote: Gendo's sacrifice wouldn't be needed, but it would fit his character. Gendo is along Yui and supporting her until the end.

If it was not necessary, then Gendo is not supporting Yui: it is a simple suicide made romantic by the scene. Wouldn't it be the same if Yui sent Gendo to that beach, along with Shinji, and he pulled the gun, put it in his mouth and blew his brains out? It is the same thing without romanticism and made it more brutal, gore, traumatic and unpleasant to see and digest.

Konja7 wrote: In no case do I think this tries to justify Gendo. The goodbye of Shinji to Asuka, Kaworu and Rei is filled with gratitude and hope that they have found a place, not fear and despair (like Gendo's abadonment to Shinji).

Most Gendo defenders argue that Gendo is "protecting Shinji" by moving away from him. The argument you're making for Shinji to stay away from all his friends is basically the same. So, Gendo was right. I don't think it's impossible for Anno to have thought that since Gendo is his avatar.

A vídeo of Yandere Sakura so as not to lose the habit!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7eSa2I8i13E

one-eyed wrote:If it was not necessary, then Gendo is not supporting Yui: it is a simple suicide made romantic by the scene. Wouldn't it be the same if Yui sent Gendo to that beach, along with Shinji, and he pulled the gun, put it in his mouth and blew his brains out? It is the same thing without romanticism and made it more brutal, gore, traumatic and unpleasant to see and digest.

Gendo accompanying Yui when she is sacrificing could be interpreted as "support".

That said, a simple suicide made romantic by the scene is a good interpretation too. After all, Gendo never changed in his "obsession" with Yui.


PS: I didn't know Gendo was Anno's avatar.

one-eyed wrote:

Konja7 wrote:Most Gendo defenders argue that Gendo is "protecting Shinji" by moving away from him. The argument you're making for Shinji to stay away from all his friends is basically the same. So, Gendo was right. I don't think it's impossible for Anno to have thought that since Gendo is his avatar.

That argument could hold some water in NGE, but is complete BS in Rebuild, because there Gendo never really left Shinji's life, but manipulated it during all his life to mold him into an instrument of whatever grand plan he and Yui had and actively and consciously ruined his life and that of countless people so much that Shinji had to fucking rewrite reality itself to give everyone a normal life.

OTOH, Shinji never intended to harm or manipulate Rei, Kaworu or Asuka, it was his natural good nature and kindness that made them put him in such an important place in their lives. (especially since up to the point they met, they all had a shitty life devoid of real love and affection)

bogusman wrote:The way they were shown in the epilogue i think it's meant to gives interpretation that they are going to meet in the future(although leaving with another direction of train but at least on the same reality)
And i'm pretty sure they'll meet again, when Khara needs some more financial stimulus in the future XD although maybe with other title, just like Clamp's Tsubasa Reservoir Chronicles

If Khara continue Evangelion in the future, it'll be really hard to do it in the Rebuild universe, since Shinji retconned what made the core of the series (the giant robots and the Angels) out of his world. At best I could see a spin-off slice-of-life manga showing a "where they are now" in the new universe, or a spin-off about the events of the timeskip.
But that aside, if Khara makes more Eva, I think it'll be either adaptation of the other spin-off (ANIMA, Gakuen Datenroku...) or an entirely new universe.

ElMariachi wrote:If Khara continue Evangelion in the future, it'll be really hard to do it in the Rebuild universe, since Shinji retconned what made the core of the series (the giant robots and the Angels) out of his world. At best I could see a spin-off slice-of-life manga showing a "where they are now" in the new universe, or a spin-off about the events of the timeskip.
But that aside, if Khara makes more Eva, I think it'll be either adaptation of the other spin-off (ANIMA, Gakuen Datenroku...) or an entirely new universe.

I actually would like to see spin-off stories based in the Post-NTI World and in 3rd Village. The Post-apocalyptic Ghiblitown seems charming, at least from the images and clips. It reminds me of an old anime titled Future Boy Conan, which was one of the first works made by Hayao Miyazaki. And maybe add some fights between the villagers and dangers from the outside, like Nemesis Series for example.

If we're going to get more Evangelion from Khara, they've conveniently left themselves a fourteen-year window in which to write new content. I just hope if that's the route they're planning on going, that it was something truly planned from the start so they don't risk retconning anything that happened in Q or Shin and it feels like a natural addition to the series.

ElMariachi wrote:If Khara continue Evangelion in the future, it'll be really hard to do it in the Rebuild universe, since Shinji retconned what made the core of the series (the giant robots and the Angels) out of his world. At best I could see a spin-off slice-of-life manga showing a "where they are now" in the new universe, or a spin-off about the events of the timeskip.
But that aside, if Khara makes more Eva, I think it'll be either adaptation of the other spin-off (ANIMA, Gakuen Datenroku...) or an entirely new universe.

The slice-off life after the epilogue actually quite interesting, as they continue their ordinary lives with their problem, but all fun and games until Shinji met Asuka again but introduce herself as Asuka SORYU Langley
Those kind of genre is no where near Khara, but i'm pretty sure somewhere those are doujins are in the making. (P.S.: about that genre, anyway Anno did direct Kare Kano anime though, and it's after EoE)

Or ANIMA, yes it'll be more like Khara-ish project.

If it is about the time skip somehow i kinda think it's funny, an ordinary current modern life but with DSS choker attached .
You're right that DSS choker things really made a problem for the timeskip.