With the general implication that Rei I is the soul for unit 00, it got me wondering why Rei I would so violently reject Rei II, but then something occurred to me, so I'd like to run this theory by you.

While Rei I was having her life snuffed out, the final words she heard were: "you're replaceable".
She is then reawoken to find her literal replacement sitting inside her own vessel. She freaks out, throws some punches at the man who replaced her, ejects her replacement and tries to cause distruction to her new form.

I suspect that Rei I may well have been quite jealous when it came to Gendo.
I don't think she was merely repeating "old hag" because she liked the sound of it, she was rubbing it in.
She didn't like anyone getting close to him, she quite liked having Gendo all to herself and intended to keep it that way.
I think this is why she would lash out at Rei II and Ritsuko and even Gendo for replacing her or daring to get close to anyone.

This makes some sense, but in ep. 14, when the Unit once again goes berserk we get a quick glance at the people on the bridge and you can see that Ritsuko has dark hair, so there's a theory that Rei I thinks Ritsuko to be Naoko and is attempting to get revenge. And in that same episode, she stops throwing punches perhaps because Rei II is standing right there-I don't think she really hates her, as her conversation with the other Reis in ep. 25 is pretty civil. She may have just freaked out at the activation test and not fully understood what was happening. She didn't eject Shinji either, for that matter. (Though he admittedly wasn't close to Gendo at that point). And the ''old hag'' comments are told with an actual smirk, so sadistic enjoyment of Naoko's torment was a bigger factor than I think you're saying.

Also, Rei I being Unit-00's soul is not so much general implication as accepted fact, since there are plenty of hints towards that and there are no other viable alternatives.

Personally, I lean more towards the theory that Ritsuko's hair wasn't supposed to be dark in that shot. Everyone was drawn small, grouped together and missing detail, so I don't think there was anything deliberate about her hair colour as it had no reason to look brown. As no other colours were distorted through the glass, I'm inclined to think of her brown hair as a mistake.

I don't think Rei I "hates" Rei II, I just think she would have felt shock, anger and betrayal in that moment and took some of it out on her "replacement" after taking a few shots at the person she felt betrayed her.

Unit 00 learned to accept and work with Rei over time, learning that they were the same, but I imagine there was some initial shock and strong feelings on their first encounter.

Unit 00 accepting Shinji with no problems makes sense anyway. She may see him as part of Gendo, giving her comfort, but she's also confident that Gendo doesn't care more for him than her.

I certainly do believe there was malice in what Rei was saying to Naoko. I believe it was driven by her possessive side that now resides in Unit 00.

unit 00 looked in pain to be honnest, Ritsuki mentions instability in the pilot's mind (blaming it on Rei II). perhaps Rei was realy emotional but could not quit show it.

AWinters wrote:I certainly do believe there was malice in what Rei was saying to Naoko.

Hm, I don't think so. Rei I seemed to be far too young to understand what she was actually saying. Having only Gendo to tell her how to behave, she just adopted his speech pattern, not knowing that it's highly inappropriate and hurtful. Her later anger at Naoko I would explain with the fact that Naoko strangled her, and who knows what Ritsuko herself did to her while she was the soul of the Eva. Depending on how dark you want to go, that "armor as restraint" thing can be a literal torture device for the flesh beneath to contain its strength.

I don't quite think that the soul of Zerogouki is Rei I per se (if Rei I is in there, where did Rei II's soul come from?), so much as just another part of Rei- the darker, baser part of her heart that she's buried away to deal with trauma of being murdered. The lower part of the soul- the Id- being like a wild beast is a very old metaphor.

On the first occasion the Eva doesn't try to hurt Rei at all (Rei is injured accidentally, by the eject system activating automatically and being unsuited for the enclosed space), instead lashing out seemingly at random. On the second occassion she does go for Rei, but it's not because she hates her, but because she wants to be reunited with her. This alternates with her outright trying to kill herself by banging her head against the wall, because Rei also has emotions tending towards wanting to die.

Rei is able to pilot the Eva (= master her despair) because she has a sort of faith in Gendou after he rushed to her aid, after she affirms her faith in him by defending him against the boy who insults him (slap-slap). The second time she gets in the Eva, the only thing that's different is that she has his glasses with her- I don't think she had the same sort of strong attachment to him before the incident. Shinji, naturally, doesn't have the same control over Rei's soul, so the Rei-in-the-Eva acts out again.

And ja, I don't think Rei I was really trying to insult Naoko. Maybe she was a little miffed at her, but she was mostly just a little girl sharing what she'd heard.

It's worth pointing out that "old hag" isn't really a perfect translation. "Baa-san" is really just the plain (and so less-than-polite) form of the word for grandmother. So literally it's more like "granny" or "old woman"; translating it as "old hag" is done, I think, to make it clear that this would be heard as insulting.

Most likely Rei l death was planned by Gendo, since Eva needs soul as framework, and this soul need to be compatiable with pilot. This way gendo had killed two, maybe even three birds with one stone. He now had a eva with controllable pilot, he got rid of naoko, who knew to much about Rei and magi, and he had opend a position of lead scientist/lover to Ritsuko.

Most likely Rei l death was planned by Gendo, since Eva needs soul as framework, and this soul need to be compatiable with pilot. This way gendo had killed two, maybe even three birds with one stone. He now had a eva with controllable pilot, he got rid of naoko, who knew to much about Rei and magi, and he had opend a position of lead scientist/lover to Ritsuko.

I doubt it.
If Unit 0 soul is a part of Rei's soul then she is similar to Asuka's mom kyoko. And theirs no need to kill her. (Kyoko had part of her soul extracted and placed in unit 02 whilst still alive.
(Unit 02 probably recieved the rest afther kyoko's death, but that's more based on haw stable unit 02 apears then any actual evidence).

orcot wrote:If Unit 0 soul is a part of Rei's soul then she is similar to Asuka's mom kyoko.

Well, Rei is one of her kind, pun intended. I seriously doubt that her soul being at least partly that of deity being Lilith and having no constant connection to the body could be compared to Kyoko's. Also, maybe Gendo had no access to that particular technology, since he wasn't that powerful outside Japan to discreetly obtain German soul transfer equipment.

I doubt that it was intentionally planned; Gendo cares too much about Yui, and by extension Rei, to ever use her as just a pawn sacrifice, even if he knows for a fact that he can just create another one.

That being said, my personal theory is that after Rei I died, using part of her (or rather Lilith's) soul as base for 00, and transplanting the rest into Rei II was a convenient solution for Gendo to make 00 usable.

This is just speculation, nothing that has ever been confirmed (we still don't know for absolute certain who 00's soul is), but in my opinion it explains enough things otherwise left unaccounted for to have it be believable.
When Kyoko's soul was split, she herself became mentally unstable, while 02 is by far the most behaved of the three main Evas. I am inclined to believe that this is what happens with Rei II and 00 as well, albeit in reverse; Rei has the calm, subdued personality, while 00 is the unstable, crazy one; it also explains the difference in personality to Rei I and Rei III, when the soul was not split, and is one of the more reasonable explanations for 00 targeting Ritsuko in particular.

Maybe i am being biased to Gendo, since his type of media character in my opinion is worst kind of "smart/genius/cunning" because we can see tons of possibilities his plans can go wrong, but they, thanks to author, tend to succeed almost to the end.

But I had a feeling/theory based on a same statement "cares too much about Yui" that his cutting of all ties to his son and absence of any Yui memorabilia was his method of staying on track of resurrecting Yui or reconnecting spiritually in case of resurrection failure. And Rei is a failed resurrection project, broken tool, that he repurposed. Also "wearing" his wife face. So its not impossible that Gendo actually disliked/hated Rei, staying civil in order to manipulate her to his goal.

Saying that, Gendo wasn't shy to use Rei to lure Shinji into piloting, definitely sacrificing her in case she was to pilot in her condition. So why would he be shy to use one of her iterations as an instrument against Naoko? And anyway he was going to use her consciousness and/or soul as eva00 control system.

JonL wrote:But I had a feeling/theory based on a same statement "cares too much about Yui" that his cutting of all ties to his son and absence of any Yui memorabilia was his method of staying on track of resurrecting Yui or reconnecting spiritually in case of resurrection failure. And Rei is a failed resurrection project, broken tool, that he repurposed. Also "wearing" his wife face. So its not impossible that Gendo actually disliked/hated Rei, staying civil in order to manipulate her to his goal.

In that case he wouldn't react the way he did to 00 going berserk or Rei blowing herself up against Armisael; both times that was genuine concern, plus the scenes in which he is having a casual conversation with Rei; if she was just a tool he secretly hated, he would not do any of that

It most likely was his plan in ensuaring Rei's loyalty, and it almost worked (glasses symbolism). And her suicide in Armisael battle showed him that she had formed strong enough loyalty to his son. Also it might be that reuploading new Rei was contrary to his battle against seele scedule. Not forgeting that Eva00 is a strong card of its own.

That wouldn't be necessary tho; Rei is perfectly obedient regardless, and has no sense of self-preservation because she is deeply aware of just how replacable she is.
You are letting your hatred towards Gendo blind you; he is not some sort of overly evil comic book villain, he genuinely believes that what he is doing is the right thing

Blockio wrote:That wouldn't be necessary tho; Rei is perfectly obedient regardless

Rei II can come off as suicidal.
I do not believe Gendo was aware off her attempted attack on zeruel, with the N2 mine.

Similar you could wander what she was doing fighting armisael in the first place. UNit 00 was the only active model at the time, unit 01 was under quarantine afther eating zereul S2 engine and Asuka synchro rate was to low. Gendo should already have ordered the replacement pilot for unit 02 at this point (but that's beside the point).
Gendo's priorities should have been
A find a able pilot for unit 02
1 defeat the angel(s)
2 protect Rei for instrumentality
3 find an excuse to re-commission unit 01

the easiest/safest way to do this would have been to send unit 00 out with the dummy plug system.
Unit 00 with the dummy plug could have either won or loose.
Had it won no problem.
Had it lost, well it could have lost a couple of limbs and be out for a while, had it lost badly it had a N2 mine that could potentialy destroy the angel.
In either case it is gendo's excuse re-commission unit 01.
So whether it wins or loses Gendo only wins by using the dummy plug. Making you wonder what Rei was doing there in the first place.
(BTW in the manga Kaworu is allready there this makes a lot of sence. Why wait so long to replace Asuka? She couldn't do anything).

Personally I believe it is Rei that was pressuring Gendo to let her pilot the Eva.

Blockio wrote:That wouldn't be necessary tho; Rei is perfectly obedient regardless, and has no sense of self-preservation because she is deeply aware of just how replacable she is.
You are letting your hatred towards Gendo blind you; he is not some sort of overly evil comic book villain, he genuinely believes that what he is doing is the right thing

Maybe im not conveying my thoughts properly due to linguistic barrier.
I dont portrey Gendo as a comic book villain. Even if my teory was correct, it wouldnt mean that gendo is villain, just give motivation to some of his deeds, and some new angle at his character.
As we know, Gendo has ultimate goal of reuniting with Yui, and in this agenda he would sacrifice his son, Rei and whole humanity. So if he is already ok with it, why not use Rei in other projects.

orcot wrote:unit 00 looked in pain to be honnest, Ritsuki mentions instability in the pilot's mind (blaming it on Rei II). perhaps Rei was realy emotional but could not quit show it.

^This. In the later test were it works she keeps gazing at Gendo's glasses like a talisman.
She's learned to accept her situation & doesn't really see an alternative, but that doesn't mean it's pleasant.

I mean; the EVAs are miserable intubated lab creatures; Rei herself kind of counts; Whatever fragment of Lillith they put into EVA 00 would also be somewhat miserable in that situation, nor can it be too pleasant for Rei to expose herself on a regular basis on something that calls the fragile sense of self that she's built into question. Perhaps all the underlying thought of "get me out of this miserable situation, I want this to be over" coalesced and ignited cause her control slipped for a moment.

Blockio wrote:This is just speculation, nothing that has ever been confirmed (we still don't know for absolute certain who 00's soul is), but in my opinion it explains enough things otherwise left unaccounted for to have it be believable.

This is actually stated outright at one point but is easy to miss. When Armisael comes into contact with Rei 2, she asks, "Who is this? Is this me? The me inside the Eva?" And the script for Episode 25 identifies the distorted bug-eyed Rei seen by Shinji in Episode 14 as "Rei 1", not to mention that Shinji himself senses "Ayanami" in Eva-00 but is confused by the nature of the presence that he feels. An official confirmation is not necessary because the relevant information is sitting in the open.

The only reason we don't have it spelled out for us was because Shinji or Asuka realizing that their mothers are inside the Evas was a major discovery for the characters, but Rei has already come to the conclusion that a part of her is inside the Eva, and quietly accepts it as fact.

When Kyoko's soul was split, she herself became mentally unstable, while 02 is by far the most behaved of the three main Evas. I am inclined to believe that this is what happens with Rei II and 00 as well, albeit in reverse; Rei has the calm, subdued personality, while 00 is the unstable, crazy one; it also explains the difference in personality to Rei I and Rei III, when the soul was not split, and is one of the more reasonable explanations for 00 targeting Ritsuko in particular.

That's a very interesting contrast between Rei and Kyoko, come to think of it!

Oh yeah, right, I somehow completely forgot about that line. Thanks for poitning that one out!

Can you really call it as unit 00 "rejecting" Rei? It's more like Unit 00 going berserk, taking the control of everything and fulfilling its goal.
As for goal, if you take Naoko's soul as unit 00's soul, then the goal's taking revenge from Gendo. If you think Rei I is resident soul of Unit 00, then it's goal is again, revenge on Naoko except it's Ritsuko but Unit 00 is seeing her hair dark because of the tainted glass.
Now, what we see before the battle with Zeruel can be called as rejection. Unit 1 rejects both Rei and dummy plug. It straight up refuses to make any sort of neural connection, just standing still. But on the other hand, Unit 00 makes two stage neural connection with Rei, but goes berserk in the third stage just before passing absolute borderline.