Asking Questions! [ending, loops?]
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- Henshin Eternal E
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Asking Questions! [ending, loops?]
I'm new. I watched NGE's original series when I was younger but forgot about it. Now that I have extra time on my hands, I've watched all twenty-six episodes (and no extras; EoE and the Rebuilds). Good show, I guess. I say "I guess" because I didn't really grasp the ending too much. But not in the way you think! I'll explain.
Instrumentality. What makes Shinji so important? For a spineless, hot-n'-cold coward, he sure does seem rather mighty in that he's able to think outside of the box (pun?) and reject something that 6,999,999,999 people weren't able to.
What makes him so damn special? Does he actually reject it and return to reality? That means he's all alone, no? Or is the AU seen in Ep26 his new "reality"? I was going to ask something else as well but I forgot it. Oh well.
Instrumentality. What makes Shinji so important? For a spineless, hot-n'-cold coward, he sure does seem rather mighty in that he's able to think outside of the box (pun?) and reject something that 6,999,999,999 people weren't able to.
What makes him so damn special? Does he actually reject it and return to reality? That means he's all alone, no? Or is the AU seen in Ep26 his new "reality"? I was going to ask something else as well but I forgot it. Oh well.
[Pending]
- UrsusArctos
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If you're confused by it, don't worry. It caused actual outrage in Japan with people writing to newspapers to complain about it. No anime ever caused such an uproar with its ending before. If I had to explain it, it's an exploration of the psyches of the characters. Instrumentality has already started, and most of what you see is in the characters' minds, with some parts of Episode 25 showing the reality outside (Misato and Ritsuko being dead, for instance, Asuka being in her Eva). End of Evangelion shows some of the physical reality of what went on, Asuka putting up one hell of a fight before going down, the sheer madness of the beginning of instrumentality.
Both endings - the TV ending and Evangelion - represent different aspects of the instrumentality process and are considered to be part of the same continuity (although that has been hotly debated for years on end).
As for Shinji himself, he's not a coward at all. He reacts much the same way one of us would if we'd been thrown into his place, aside from his severe depression and self-esteem issues. There is literally nothing special about Shinji, aside from the fact that his mother is inside Eva-01 and is one of the key players in setting up Instrumentality. I suggest you watch EoE to take a look at the other aspects of the end of the series, and the appearance of Shinji's mother. It would help you understand the discussion following this better. (Rebuild is a different continuity, no need to bother with it)
Both endings - the TV ending and Evangelion - represent different aspects of the instrumentality process and are considered to be part of the same continuity (although that has been hotly debated for years on end).
As for Shinji himself, he's not a coward at all. He reacts much the same way one of us would if we'd been thrown into his place, aside from his severe depression and self-esteem issues. There is literally nothing special about Shinji, aside from the fact that his mother is inside Eva-01 and is one of the key players in setting up Instrumentality. I suggest you watch EoE to take a look at the other aspects of the end of the series, and the appearance of Shinji's mother. It would help you understand the discussion following this better. (Rebuild is a different continuity, no need to bother with it)
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Not knowing that Monk is bi is like not knowing the Pope is Catholic - ZapX
You're either really bad at interpreting jokes or really good at pretending you are and I have no idea which.-Monk Ed
WAAAAAAAAGH!!!!!(<-link to lunacy)...Taste me, if you can bear it. (Warning: Language NSFW)
The main point of idiocy is for the smart to have their lulz. Without human idiocy, trolling would not exist, and that's uncool, since a large part of my entertainment consists of mocking the absurdity and dumbassery of the world, especially the Internet.-MaggotMaster
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Re: Asking (Dumb) Questions!
In EoE, he's special because he's the person Rei chooses to give privileged access to. The other 2,999,999,999 (Second Impact, remember) weren't on anywhere near such good terms with her.
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- pwhodges
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The story is about Shinji and his relationships; but it's not literal - rather, it's a metaphor for what's going on in his mind. Thus only his decision matters, and the story places him at centre stage to make it.
Sure, there are some side stories, even important ones like Asuka's, but ultimately the focus is on Shinji to the exclusion of all else. This is even more starkly obvious in Rebuild and the end of the manga, but in my view applies equally in all continuities.
"Being human, having your health; that's what's important." (from: Magical Shopping Arcade Abenobashi )
"As long as we're all living, and as long as we're all having fun, that should do it, right?" (from: The Eccentric Family )
Avatar: The end of the journey (details); Past avatars.
Before 3.0+1.0 there was Afterwards... my post-Q Evangelion fanfic (discussion)
"As long as we're all living, and as long as we're all having fun, that should do it, right?" (from: The Eccentric Family )
Avatar: The end of the journey (details); Past avatars.
Before 3.0+1.0 there was Afterwards... my post-Q Evangelion fanfic (discussion)
- Henshin Eternal E
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I get that it's his mum's soul in the Evangelion, but then, she's supposed to be "god" or whatever. It's supposed to be Yui (as Eva 01) floating around space/nothingness with the human soup amalgam trailing her. I doubt that her or Rei (number whatever) would be like, "Shit niggah. It's cool. Yo ass gets to live in a matrix reality. We gon' be out though. Peace!", even if he is Yui's son, and Rei's love interest/whatever.
So then, what of the other 2,999,999,999 people (well, more like the millions who are old enough to recognise what's going on and change it)? Do they get to maintain the individual reality or are their wishes ignored because, you know, familial privilege?
I'll watch End of Evangelion if I can find it online. I'm still going to be asking questions though. I know it. It's not that the ending wasn't happy. Too many of those. It's that the ending was bullshit. What the fuck was that shit with the "Congratulations"! at the end? Those people are all dead or no longer individuals.
So then, what of the other 2,999,999,999 people (well, more like the millions who are old enough to recognise what's going on and change it)? Do they get to maintain the individual reality or are their wishes ignored because, you know, familial privilege?
I'll watch End of Evangelion if I can find it online. I'm still going to be asking questions though. I know it. It's not that the ending wasn't happy. Too many of those. It's that the ending was bullshit. What the fuck was that shit with the "Congratulations"! at the end? Those people are all dead or no longer individuals.
[Pending]
- pwhodges
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Take my answer above and apply it to each person in 3,000,000,000 parallel universes (most of which are less interesting than the Eva universe, because most people aren't quite as messed-up as Shinji). Shinji doesn't really determine the fate of everyone in the world - it's just a kind of fictional double-think.
"Being human, having your health; that's what's important." (from: Magical Shopping Arcade Abenobashi )
"As long as we're all living, and as long as we're all having fun, that should do it, right?" (from: The Eccentric Family )
Avatar: The end of the journey (details); Past avatars.
Before 3.0+1.0 there was Afterwards... my post-Q Evangelion fanfic (discussion)
"As long as we're all living, and as long as we're all having fun, that should do it, right?" (from: The Eccentric Family )
Avatar: The end of the journey (details); Past avatars.
Before 3.0+1.0 there was Afterwards... my post-Q Evangelion fanfic (discussion)
- Henshin Eternal E
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pwhodges wrote:Take my answer above and apply it to each person in 3,000,000,000 parallel universes (most of which are less interesting than the Eva universe, because most people aren't quite as messed-up as Shinji). Shinji doesn't really determine the fate of everyone in the world - it's just a kind of fictional double-think.
Wait. What? Parallel universes? What are you talking about?
[Pending]
- Rosenakahara
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evangelion is a story that repeats, its generally accepted that the story of evangelion has been going in a loop with a few differences ever since EoE/EoTV's third impact and the creation of Quantum!Rei creating a bunch of alternate takes on the story (like ANIMA, Rebuild ect.)technically its not parallel universes but the same universe caught in a loop culminating at a single point of terminal dogma/lilliths chamber (as evidenced by 3.0)
"She had better march back here and try again! I only send people off on my terms! ...Or in a casket."
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What is going on is a concerted effort from anti-progressives to silence anyone who disagrees with them.-Bagheera 2016
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I don't need a scabbard to sheathe my mind
What is going on is a concerted effort from anti-progressives to silence anyone who disagrees with them.-Bagheera 2016
The Twelve Kingdoms discussion thread
- pwhodges
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The story is about the main character. The effect the story has on anyone other than those whom the main character interacts with (the interaction being the point of the story) is of no interest, because those people and their fates simply do not matter in this story. Shinji's big decision is about himself, not anyone else. Evangelion is the story that leads up to that.
If you want the equivalent story for anyone else in the universe, find or write a new story that is about them. My parallel universes are those other stories, which are not in the world of Evangelion but each in their own.
"Being human, having your health; that's what's important." (from: Magical Shopping Arcade Abenobashi )
"As long as we're all living, and as long as we're all having fun, that should do it, right?" (from: The Eccentric Family )
Avatar: The end of the journey (details); Past avatars.
Before 3.0+1.0 there was Afterwards... my post-Q Evangelion fanfic (discussion)
"As long as we're all living, and as long as we're all having fun, that should do it, right?" (from: The Eccentric Family )
Avatar: The end of the journey (details); Past avatars.
Before 3.0+1.0 there was Afterwards... my post-Q Evangelion fanfic (discussion)
Rosenakahara wrote:evangelion is a story that repeats, its generally accepted that the story of evangelion has been going in a loop with a few differences ever since EoE/EoTV's third impact and the creation of Quantum!Rei creating a bunch of alternate takes on the story (like ANIMA, Rebuild ect.)technically its not parallel universes but the same universe caught in a loop culminating at a single point of terminal dogma/lilliths chamber (as evidenced by 3.0)
That is not what is generally accepted. What's generally accepted is that there are a number of alternate settings for various Evangelion stories and that, for the most part, they do not interact (goofiness like Kaworu in SRW notwithstanding). Loop theories are popular, but calling them "generally accepted" is quite a stretch (particularly since the most popular ones have been pretty thoroughly debunked).
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.
- Rosenakahara
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Bagheera wrote:That is not what is generally accepted. What's generally accepted is that there are a number of alternate settings for various Evangelion stories and that, for the most part, they do not interact (goofiness like Kaworu in SRW notwithstanding). Loop theories are popular, but calling them "generally accepted" is quite a stretch (particularly since the most popular ones have been pretty thoroughly debunked).
Im just going by what and see and most people i see agree with the loop theory and i think that too tbh because that's my interpretation of it but again the only reason i called it generally accepted is because thats what i see
"She had better march back here and try again! I only send people off on my terms! ...Or in a casket."
I don't need a scabbard to sheathe my mind
What is going on is a concerted effort from anti-progressives to silence anyone who disagrees with them.-Bagheera 2016
The Twelve Kingdoms discussion thread
I don't need a scabbard to sheathe my mind
What is going on is a concerted effort from anti-progressives to silence anyone who disagrees with them.-Bagheera 2016
The Twelve Kingdoms discussion thread
- Henshin Eternal E
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I think we can all agree that Evangelion is just a clusterfuck of confusion with no clear ending. For a while it seemed like it was trying to overshadow Gundam, then I learned the Evas are human, so it began to look like some "Sie sind das essen, und wir sind die jager!". Now, it looks like Paranoia Agent, the Matrix and some other crazy psychological work with some nightmare fuel added for effect.
EDIT: Which means that there is no canonical ending, only speculation and theories.
EDIT: Which means that there is no canonical ending, only speculation and theories.
[Pending]
Not really. The canonical ending is EoTV + EoE. There's nothing terribly ambiguous about that fact. The manga and the ENT series are their own continuities with their own endings -- again, nothing terribly unclear about this. We debate and theorize a lot about what the endings mean and (in the case of EoE + EoTV) how they interact, but identifying them as endings is not really a subject of debate.
Eva's complex, but once you sort it all out it's really not that confusing. The notion that it has no clear ending is nonsense, since EoE's about as clear as you can get on the matter.
Eva's complex, but once you sort it all out it's really not that confusing. The notion that it has no clear ending is nonsense, since EoE's about as clear as you can get on the matter.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.
- slothen
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Henshin Eternal E wrote:For a while it seemed like it was trying to overshadow Gundam, then I learned the Evas are human, so it began to look like some "Sie sind das essen, und wir sind die jager!". Now, it looks like Paranoia Agent, the Matrix and some other crazy psychological work with some nightmare fuel added for effect.
definitely watch EoE, definitely make sure you have the director's cut versions of the last few episodes. And then forget 25 and 26 exist. They're useful for character insight and interesting things, not much for understanding what happens.
God, Apparently you all have been discussing Q since November. Catching up on the discussion is harrowing.
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- Henshin Eternal E
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- Compiling_Autumn
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Welcome to Evageeks, where "Loop Theory" is like the young-earth creationism of EVA theories. Even the most ardent Quantum Rei supporters won't try to put to fill all the EVA franchise stories into one meta-continuity.
Having other people who share your viewpoint isn't a bad thing, reading their arguments helps strengthen your own, but a consensus can only go so far if you don't have compelling evidence to back it up. Why do you think that the EVA franchise operates in one big "looping" story, and secondly, what does this kind of interpretation add to the series?
"The will to lose one's will?"
"Absolutely. The will to make oneself completely free. Will is the wrong word, because in the end you could call it despair. Because it really comes out of an absolute feeling of it's impossible to do these things, so I might as well just do anything. And out of this anything, one sees what happens."--Francis Bacon
"Absolutely. The will to make oneself completely free. Will is the wrong word, because in the end you could call it despair. Because it really comes out of an absolute feeling of it's impossible to do these things, so I might as well just do anything. And out of this anything, one sees what happens."--Francis Bacon
In rebuild perhaps. That doesn't apply at all to the rest of eva.
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"I'd consider myself a realist, alright? but in philosophical terms I'm what's called a pessimist. It means I'm bad at parties." - Rust Cohle
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize that half of 'em are stupider than that." - George Carlin
"The internet: It's like a training camp for never amounting to anything." - Oglaf
"I think internet message boards and the like are dangerous." - Anno
- ObsessiveMathsFreak
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Even when considering the new movies alone it all hinges on Kaworu's cryptic lines. And that's . . . not much. I mean, if we had some indication the Adams, or Lilith, or something were monkeying around with time it'd be a fair cop, but there isn't any. We don't even have Quantum!Rei to work with this time around (we have that apparition in Jo, but we have no idea as to its origin so it could be anything).
But yeah, it's at least possible in the new stuff. But all of it? NGE + Manga + new movies? Can't see it. There isn't even a mechanism in place to make it happen, since we see how things are resolved after Impact in both NGE and the Manga.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.
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