Just finished watching the series through for the second time and i need an outlet for my thoughts...

and btw

****CONTAINS SPOILERS*****

I'm getting most of my info on the speculation from the theories in the wiki on unit 00's soul page but i was thinking...

Unit 00's soul might be Yui.

We know that Yui is the soul for unit 01, but we also know that Asuka's mother's soul was split into 2 parts, the maternal side went into the eva and the rest stayed behind. However, we don't know if the reson she became mentally unstable was because her soul was split or she lost her "sane" side. Why couldn't this happen to Yui's soul as well?

In one episode, Shinji and Rei are in each other's units and it seems like both of them had enough sync ratio to pilot the other eva. Rei is a clone of Yui, so it would make sense for her to pilot it since being a clone of someone is fairly similar to being their child, you have the same DNA in you, its just not dilluted from the father (although the maternal feelings are probably absent). This may have caused the complications unit 00 had with Rei piloting. Other complications may have resulted from the maternal part of Yui's soul being absent- that part of her soul tried to harm or reject someone rather than being motherly to them and protecting them. However, it isn't mentioned anywhere that there has to be a maternal and non maternal part of the soul that goes into the eva or not, so it could have just been a piece of her soul and it rejected Rei because she wasn't actually Yui's child.
Also, Unit 00 attacked Ritsuko, possibly knowing that she was having an affair with Gendo, the person Yui loved and it is likely she would not like the idea of him sleeping with other women. From the eva's point of view, people think unit 00 may have misidentified Ritsuko as her mother, well the same thing applies here.
Unit 00 attempts to attack Gendo as well, Yui may have been upset with him for the very same reason as with Ritsuko and her mother.

However, I have another theory. It may also just be some random woman's soul that has been layed dormant and rejected the initial inteded user.
When Asuka is no longer able to sync with unit 02, if I remember correctly, Ritsuko says something about unit 02 rejecting Asuka. Kowru says this is the reason he is able to control unit 02, that and the fact that they both originate from adam. While Rei holds the soul of Lilith, she is in a similar, but different situation. Because she has one of the souls of the "creators of life" i guess i'll call them, she should have a similar ability to control evas made from lilith, AKA unit 01
provided the soul has rejected the child they were meant to sync with. However, since unit 00 is from adam rather thatn lilith, Rei may not have the same level of control as Kowru had. Therfore, she may be able to sync with it as though she were the mother's child (provided, again that the mother rejected the child) and not fully control it like Kowru. But because she holds the soul of a rival creator of life, there may be issues with control since neither of the two were meant to meet.

However, I see a problem with this 2nd theory (and subsequently a possible plot hole in the story). This may cause the "forbidden union of adam and lilith" that gendo refers to in, i believe EoE. I may be wrong but it seems really foolish to put together 2 things that could cause 3rd impact, although there may be a catalyst needed, or may not be possible at all, since they are both pieces, i guess of adam and lilith and not the true form.

Sorry for the massive wall o' text but i had to get out all my thoughts. please point out any problems/holes in my theory if you see them

Lots of discussion about this:

Old ANF thread: http://forum.evageeks.org/thread/3785/Unit-00s-soul/
Old thread from around here: http://forum.evageeks.org/thread/70/EVA-00s-Soul/
And some others:
forum.evageeks.org/thread/488/Whose-soul-is-inside-of-Eva-Unit-00/
http://forum.evageeks.org/thread/1179/In-response-to-Whose-soul-is-in-Unit-00/

But if you don't want to wade through all the lengthy discussion, there's some summaries here: http://wiki.evageeks.org/Theory_and_Analysis:Eva-00%27s_Soul

Consensus around here is that Lilith's soul was split, and the soul in Eva-00 is Rei I's soul.

A minority of people think that Naoko's the one stuck in there, or there is no "soul" in there at all. Both would explain why Rei's the least able to connect with her Eva.

Naoko was debunked, and the no soul hypothesis contradicts what's said in the series.

TehDonutKing wrote:Naoko was debunked, and the no soul hypothesis contradicts what's said in the series.

Good to know.

TehDonutKing wrote:Consensus around here is that Lilith's soul was split, and the soul in Eva-00 is Rei I's soul.

That's the consensus, but I've seen it voiced on other fora that perhaps we accept that idea a bit too easily; it seems extremely likely that the soul in Unit 00 is a shard of Lilith's soul, but the case for it being Rei I is a bit more dodgy. In particular, the evidence from 25 (where Rei I is identified in the script) is problematic since we see Rei I specifically and also see the distorted image of Rei last seen during Shinji's cross-synchronization experiment in 14. We also see Rei I during Gendo's last scene in EoE.

The prevailing theory assumes that Distorted!Rei is Rei I since Rei I is identified in the script, but we never see Distorted!Rei talking; she's just on the screen while Rei I is talking. Are we to take that as an indication that they are one and the same? We might, but the fact that we also see Rei I at various points complicates matters. Things get worse if you consider supplemental information in the form of NGE2: in this game Distorted!Rei is not specifically identified during the end of the Leliel sequence (where the pilot meets the soul of their Eva), instead being identified as "???". Why not identify her outright if the soul of Eva 00 is indeed Rei I?

The alternative I've encountered is that the soul of Unit 00 is yet another fragment of Lilith's soul, and that since it has no character of its own it is instead a warped and twisted reflection of its only pilot -- Rei II. I don't think this is a more complelling theory than the alternative, but I'm hard-pressed to say it's less -- at the very least it makes me wary of accepting the prevailing theory without some serious caveats. IMO Anno didn't want this question to be answered with any certainty, and so left it open-ended on purpose so we could draw our own conclusions based on what we bring to the puzzle box.

^ - But why would some random piece of Lilith's soul become Rei if it had never been Rei?

When Rei returns to Lilith, Lilith takes on Rei's appearance because Rei has become Lilith's true identity through years of interacting with others as Rei. Unit-00's soul interacted with Rei, not as Rei; thus it should not become Rei any more than Rei became Shinji or Gendo by interacting with them. It would only look like Rei if it had experienced life as Rei.

thewayneiac wrote:^ - But why would some random piece of Lilith's soul become Rei if it had never been Rei?

I addressed that: it becomes Rei because it reflects its pilot, who is attempting to synchronize with it. They're parts of the same soul, so a certain amount of sympathy in this regard is not surprising.

When Rei returns to Lilith, Lilith takes on Rei's appearance because Rei has become Lilith's true identity through years of interacting with others as Rei. Unit-00's soul interacted with Rei, not as Rei; thus it should not become Rei any more than Rei became Shinji or Gendo by interacting with them. It would only look like Rei if it had experienced life as Rei.

I'm not sure how the one's related to the other. Even still the argument accommodates this line of reasoning by virtue of the fact that the soul in Unit 00 is a distorted image of Rei. It's the result of synchronization instead of a full merger, and thus is imperfect. If it was the soul of Rei I why wouldn't it look like Rei I, just as the souls of Units 01 and 02 look like Yui and Kyoko respectively?

If Unit 00's soul is a Lilith shard 'reflecting' Rei II as a pilot, why does it flip out, eagerly try and absorb Shinji (who it apparently mistakes for Gendo), attempt to murder the resident Akagi, and generally seems to express severe resentment towards it's pilot?

AuraTwilight wrote:If Unit 00's soul is a Lilith shard 'reflecting' Rei II as a pilot, why does it flip out, eagerly try and absorb Shinji (who it apparently mistakes for Gendo), attempt to murder the resident Akagi, and generally seems to express severe resentment towards it's pilot?

Why would Rei I do any of those things? She had no reason to absorb or attack either Shinji or Gendo, had no particular grudge against Ritsuko, and had no reason to resent Rei II. Indeed, the imperfect copy has more of a reason to do pretty much all of these than Rei I; its basic instability would do a lot more to explain erratic behavior than any notion of holding on to (perceived) grudges from a past life, and the me/not me issue would weird it out about equally whether it was Rei I or just another shard of Lilith.

(Also note that Unit 02 had none of these problems, despite the fact that its soul was (literally) certifiable and had more reason to go berserk than anyone. This suggests Unit 00's behavior had more to do with its imperfect core than it did any sort of instability in the soul within.)

the problem i see with Rei being the soul inside unit 00 is that they specifically say in the show that it needs to be a human's soul, specifically a mother's soul i think.

the problem being lilith is not a human, and Rei is not a mother (although you could say lilith is the mother of all life on earth baring the angels). if they do indeed share the same soul, albeit different parts of that soul, according to the series, i believe, isn't the soul a reflection of the interactions between other souls? in that case they would have different souls in the end because the interactions changed them to be so. Not to mention lilith should have no reason to go around destroying her own "children."

And shouldn't all the reis have the same soul that moves to the next when one of the bodies die? that's what i don't understand about the Rei theory, although they could be different pieces of the same soul? again that brings it back to the lilith soul being inside all the reis at different points and unit 00.

I think it is highly unlikely for Rei/lilith to be the soul of unit 00 since there would be THE soul of lilith inside a creation of adam, more or less

something else i just thought of, if it is indeed lilith's soul who is inside unit 00, everyone who could sync with an eva should be able to sync with unit 00 since lilith is basically "everyone's mother". yet when they did the cross sync test they wouldn't let Asuka into either of the other units. it seemed like they knew she wouldn't be successful in syncing with them, and they (namely ritsuko) would know what soul is in the eva and whether she could do it or not. just something else to think about for the lilith/Rei theory

borax_kid wrote:the problem i see with Rei being the soul inside unit 00 is that they specifically say in the show that it needs to be a human's soul, specifically a mother's soul i think.

Lilith is human.

Also, we've been told the souls within Evas are those of mothers, but not that they have to be mothers, much less the mother of the pilot (which is impossible in Rei's case in any event). For all we know any sort of close familial bond would do the trick; we just don't have a large enough sample size to know for certain.

Whatever the case may be it should be obvious that shards of a single soul should be able to synchronize as well as the souls of relatives. At the very least there's no reason to think they wouldn't.

I think it is highly unlikely for Rei/lilith to be the soul of unit 00 since there would be THE soul of lilith inside a creation of adam, more or less

Lilith's the only option, dude. Rei doesn't have a mother so no one else even comes close to qualifying. The only question at this point is whether the soul is that of Rei I or some other iteration of Lilith.

borax_kid wrote:something else i just thought of, if it is indeed lilith's soul who is inside unit 00, everyone who could sync with an eva should be able to sync with unit 00 since lilith is basically "everyone's mother".

No, it's not the same thing. Rei can sync with Unit 00 because she and it have shards of the same soul. No one else would be able to sync with it because they're different, unrelated souls. Mother + child, yes. Self + self, yes. Lilith + random person, no.

Naoko may have been ruled out for NGE, but what about NME? If there's any sort of Inception-esque stuff about dream-sharing while Shinji and Rei are together in Eva-01, and they come into contact with their Evas' souls, could that be a pointer towards who's in Eva-00 (in NME at least)?

driftking18594 wrote:Naoko may have been ruled out for NGE, but what about NME? If there's any sort of Inception-esque stuff about dream-sharing while Shinji and Rei are together in Eva-01, and they come into contact with their Evas' souls, could that be a pointer towards who's in Eva-00 (in NME at least)?

We don't even know the Evas in the NME have souls. The specifics of their operation haven't been established as of yet.

Bagheera wrote:We don't even know the Evas in the NME have souls. The specifics of their operation haven't been established as of yet.

We might not have as strong evidence as in the TV-series, but Gendo says "Yui is rejecting him" when the dummy-plugs don't work on EVA01 when it had worked previously.

Rei's altered statement about the EVA's having souls, into "The EVA's are a mirror of your soul", also undermines the idea that they have souls, but considering Gendo's statement it would be weird if it didn't.

Why would Rei I do any of those things? She had no reason to absorb or attack either Shinji or Gendo, had no particular grudge against Ritsuko, and had no reason to resent Rei II. Indeed, the imperfect copy has more of a reason to do pretty much all of these than Rei I; its basic instability would do a lot more to explain erratic behavior than any notion of holding on to (perceived) grudges from a past life, and the me/not me issue would weird it out about equally whether it was Rei I or just another shard of Lilith.

Shinji is mistaken for Gendo who Rei is all <3 for and Ritsuko is mistaken for Naoko who totes choked a bitch. Easy.

(Also note that Unit 02 had none of these problems, despite the fact that its soul was (literally) certifiable and had more reason to go berserk than anyone. This suggests Unit 00's behavior had more to do with its imperfect core than it did any sort of instability in the soul within.)

The part of the soul in Unit 02 is "The motherhood" aspect. Kyoko was sane before the soul split. Since the aspect of Kyoko's soul is basically just the love for Asuka and like, nothing else, at all, it's probably the most sane EVA, objectively.

the problem i see with Rei being the soul inside unit 00 is that they specifically say in the show that it needs to be a human's soul, specifically a mother's soul i think.

Lilith is human, and it's the soul of pretty much all mankind. These motherly qualities are still present in Rei's behavior, given that Shinji comments on her having motherly characteristics, and Rei herself feels that she has a bond to "all people."

And shouldn't all the reis have the same soul that moves to the next when one of the bodies die? that's what i don't understand about the Rei theory, although they could be different pieces of the same soul? again that brings it back to the lilith soul being inside all the reis at different points and unit 00.

The general theory is that Rei I was the full soul, and it got split in half so they could empower Unit 00 and have another Rei. After Rei II's death, the parts are put back together.

I think it is highly unlikely for Rei/lilith to be the soul of unit 00 since there would be THE soul of lilith inside a creation of adam, more or less

So? A soul is a soul.

something else i just thought of, if it is indeed lilith's soul who is inside unit 00, everyone who could sync with an eva should be able to sync with unit 00 since lilith is basically "everyone's mother". yet when they did the cross sync test they wouldn't let Asuka into either of the other units. it seemed like they knew she wouldn't be successful in syncing with them, and they (namely ritsuko) would know what soul is in the eva and whether she could do it or not. just something else to think about for the lilith/Rei theory

They tried it with Shinji though and, Eva flipout aside, they did technically synchronize. I think I remember Asuka not being used because of her temperamental personality.

We might not have as strong evidence as in the TV-series, but Gendo says "Yui is rejecting him" when the dummy-plugs don't work on EVA01 when it had worked previously.

And for all we know it's because NME!Rei has Yui's soul and the digital copies of Yui!Rei's soul is refusing to betray Shinji.

Rei's altered statement about the EVA's having souls, into "The EVA's are a mirror of your soul", also undermines the idea that they have souls, but considering Gendo's statement it would be weird if it didn't.

Mirrors reflect things. The person in the mirror is not actually a person, it is a reflection of yourself.

Drabant wrote:We might not have as strong evidence as in the TV-series, but Gendo says "Yui is rejecting him" when the dummy-plugs don't work on EVA01 when it had worked previously.

Of course. It's very telling this is revealed right before Shinji goes on his omnicidal/suicidal dick waving. But, it still doesn't reveal anything specific regarding souls in Eva's considering that nature of Core-swaps, and the fact that Nigouki's core was Re-written to be compatible for Mari.

Drabant wrote:"The EVA's are a mirror of your Heart."

Fixed that for you.

AuraTwilight wrote:Shinji is mistaken for Gendo who Rei is all <3 for and Ritsuko is mistaken for Naoko who totes choked a bitch. Easy.

That's a lot of mistakes there, chief. Kinda hard to believe given that Gendo and Shinji look nothing alike and Ritsuko has a dye-job.

The part of the soul in Unit 02 is "The motherhood" aspect. Kyoko was sane before the soul split. Since the aspect of Kyoko's soul is basically just the love for Asuka and like, nothing else, at all, it's probably the most sane EVA, objectively.

Until you factor in the whole traumatic soul-splitting thing. I'm not sure she's sane so much as powerless.

The general theory is that Rei I was the full soul, and it got split in half so they could empower Unit 00 and have another Rei. After Rei II's death, the parts are put back together.

But unfortunately that's based on pretty much nothing. All we know for sure is that they're all pieces-parts of Lilith's soul. Past that it's all ass jobs.

They tried it with Shinji though and, Eva flipout aside, they did technically synchronize. I think I remember Asuka not being used because of her temperamental personality.

i.e. "Whaaaaaaat? You want me to synchronize with that piece of junk? No way! I don't need anything other than my Unit 02, and if you were smart you'd realize you don't either."

And for all we know it's because NME!Rei has Yui's soul and the digital copies of Yui!Rei's soul is refusing to betray Shinji.

Just so.

Mirrors reflect things. The person in the mirror is not actually a person, it is a reflection of yourself.

Also true.

borax_kid wrote:the problem i see with Rei being the soul inside unit 00 is that they specifically say in the show that it needs to be a human's soul, specifically a mother's soul i think.

The C.I. gives further info on this:

A unit called a core is used to eliminate any discrepancies in the joining of Eva, the body of a god, with that of a human being's soul. The soul of the pilot's mother, which is placed within the core, acts as a medium and makes piloting possible.

Due to difficulties encountered in the development of Eva-00, the core's system is poorly constructed, and the Eva falls behind in performance capacity as a result. Another reason for this is that Eva-00's pilot, Rei, does not have a mother.