Did 3.0+1.0 justify WILLE's treatment of Shinji?

[swagbuckking1]

From a narrative standpoint, I don’t think Anno meant for WILLE’s actions to be perfectly moral. They were supposed to be understandable given the circumstances, which they were. That’s why I don’t see any point in deconstructing WILLE’s actions in 3.0 from an ethical standpoint, especially if you know the conclusion of the story.

Misato reconciles with Shinji. WILLE eventually lets him do his thing, even though some of them still resent him. Knowing that — why continue complaining about this?

Let me put it another way: if Shinji were a real person, living life after the “reset” in 3.0+1.0, he wouldn’t hold a grudge. I’m certain that he’d forgive WILLE and let it go. Why can’t you?

Yeah, you have good points. I guess after 9 years waiting for answers, I still feel salty because I feel Q permanently ruined Misato and Ritsuko's characters in my eyes. So my way of getting over it is trying to dissect and understand WILLE's motivations so then I can move on.

I still reckon Misato and Shinji's reconciliation is a bit quick and sudden (after all I would have expected him to blame her for Kaworu's death and her to be mad at him for trying to start another impact) but I guess we will just have to see how the film actually pulls it off.

[Konja7]

And I think that I'm not the only one who thought that, since most of the post-3.0 fics I've read goes with route of cleansing the world little by little (Reticence, Afterwards, You Must (Not) Run Away...), so it's surprising to see that Anno took another route.

I wasn't clear. My point is that it is understandable that people feel that Shin is going in the opposite direction to what Q presented.

In fact, I also thought that a little by litle recovery for the planet was a possibility.


That said, I think Anno always planned that Shinji would be the centre of the story. So, I don't think he plans WILLE to be the main heroes at any point.

[Shinji Ikari Expy]

I guess after 9 years waiting for answers, I still feel salty because I feel Q permanently ruined Misato and Ritsuko's characters in my eyes.

Not saying she’s a bad character, but Ritsuko has always been sort of ruthless. Remember that in NGE, her plan to defeat Leleil involved killing Shinji. Then there was the thing with the Ayanami dummies. And attempting to use the self-destruct function in EOE, which likely would have killed everyone. IMO Rebuild Ritsuko is actually a better person because she is trying to act to protect the crew and humanity as a whole, but she still has the ruthless streak in her. I don't see why Q would "ruin" that character for you.

Anyway, I understand how you feel. Just remember — Shinji (probably) wouldn’t stay angry about the situation. In retrospect he'd almost certainly understand the feelings of the Wunder crew members and if the opportunity arose, he'd forgive. I can't understand why so many fans are still mad on his behalf.

[ElMariachi]

I wasn't clear. My point is that it is understandable that people feel that Shin is going in the opposite direction to what Q presented.

In fact, I also thought that a little by litle recovery for the planet was a possibility.


That said, I think Anno always planned that Shinji would be the centre of the story. So, I don't think he plans WILLE to be the main heroes at any point.

I guess that I thought that after three movies of Shinji being the center of the story (both as a POV character and as the center of events) and Q's narrative punishing him for being too narrow-minded, Anno would change the narration of the story by having the narration expand more to the rest of the characters (like it was in NGE) to show how Shinji doesn't consider himself the center of everything. But Shin turned out to still center around him.

Not saying she’s a bad character, but Ritsuko has always been sort of ruthless. Remember that in NGE, her plan to defeat Leleil involved killing Shinji. Then there was the thing with the Ayanami dummies. And attempting to use the self-destruct function in EOE, which likely would have killed everyone. IMO Rebuild Ritsuko is actually a better person because she is trying to act to protect the crew and humanity as a whole, but she still has the ruthless streak in her. I don't see why Q would "ruin" that character for you.

Anyway, I understand how you feel. Just remember — Shinji (probably) wouldn’t stay angry about the situation. In retrospect he'd almost certainly understand the feelings of the Wunder crew members and if the opportunity arose, he'd forgive. I can't understand why so many fans are still mad on his behalf.

Personally I agree that Shinji would forgive them and understand their feelings (he already doesn't have any grudges against them in Q once Kaworu showed him what happened to the world), what would be interesting is to see the reverse, to have him earn their trust and their forgiveness, and for the part were they hold an unfair grudge against him, that they get to acknowledge it... and not have it being done in a couple of minutes just before the final battle.

That's why I don't like the trope of the mistrust on someone and personal grudges being solved under the pressure of a desperate situation, because that cheapens the whole thing by having otherwise perfectly valid grudges be painted as unreasonable because the situation is desperate: Midori and Sakura are right to feel angry toward Shinji, the former lost her parents by N3I and the emotional scar of growing up without them is still raw, and the later lost her father to the same N3I, and yet still gave Shinji a chance, chance that he screwed up by piloting and starting an Impact again, so she's right to feel hurt and betrayed, but since the plot decided that it was time to push for him to get in the robot again, they have to be unreasonable, and we end up with flanderization such as "yandere Sakura".
And it's similar with Misato, what should had been a much more difficult and meaningful emotional confrontation between the two, where both could lay out their respective grudge (Shinji feeling sad and betrayed by how she treated him and how she abandoned her son, and her how she felt betrayed by him wrecking everything and then disappearing), what we expected to be one of the big emotional moments of the movie get solved in a couple of minutes with Misato opening herself again, saying that she regrets how she treated him and becoming back the person she was before, because the plot didn't afforded time for more.

And I realize that maybe Shin simply didn't had the runtime to cram all of this plus a satisfying final battle due to its movie format.

[Shinji Ikari Expy]

what would be interesting is to see the reverse, to have him earn their trust and their forgiveness, and for the part were they hold an unfair grudge against him, that they get to acknowledge it... and not have it being done in a couple of minutes just before the final battle.

Where did you get the idea they forgave him in the minutes before the battle? They let him go out to fight Gendo because it’s their last option. That’s not the same as saying they forgive him, or that their grudge against him was invalid. I don’t understand how you can read it that way.

I don’t know what it would take for Shinji to earn the trust and forgiveness of Wille — certain crew members would never forgive him, which is OK. I was responding to OP, who still seems mad about Wille’s treatment of Shinji in 3.0; I only wanted to provide some perspective.

[ElMariachi]

Where did you get the idea they forgave him in the minutes before the battle? They let him go out to fight Gendo because it’s their last option. That’s not the same as saying they forgive him, or that their grudge against him was invalid. I don’t understand how you can read it that way.

I don’t know what it would take for Shinji to earn the trust and forgiveness of Wille — certain crew members would never forgive him, which is OK. I was responding to OP, who still seems mad about Wille’s treatment of Shinji in 3.0; I only wanted to provide some perspective.

Yeah I explained myself badly, my bad.
What I meant is that I would had been more interested to see Shinji try to gain their trust (and maybe the forgiveness of some of them), at least to show them that he learned his lesson and won't be an active hazard anymore, and that when the situation call for it they let him pilot because they trust him (even if they are all still wary), instead of the narrative basically telling them "actually your opinion don't matter, because either he pilots now or everyone dies in 10 minutes".

You see what I mean?

And indeed, some crew members would probably never forgive him (Midori chiefly among them), and Shinji will have to learn to live with it, and that's alright narratively speaking.

[wiser3754]

And indeed, some crew members would probably never forgive him (Midori chiefly among them), and Shinji will have to learn to live with it, and that's alright narratively speaking.

Midori's parents and not to mention herself would've perished had Zeruel reached Lilith and triggered 3I. Are the crew members aware that Shinji had quit Nerv days prior out of disgust and he himself was caught in Zereul's rampage through Tokyo 3?
Did they show Shinji through Unit 02's flight recorder vowing not pilot when Mari shows him the devastated Geofront?
Are they aware that Misato ordered an evacuation of Nerv HQ instead of staying behind to ensure Terminal Dogma was destroyed should an angel reach Lilith as she states to Shinji when he's shown Lilith?

Seriously I think Wille don't care about humanity whatsoever. It's only those who are close to them or those whome they've lost that drive them. Humanity's salvation is just an excuse to get what you want.

[Konja7]

Midori's parents and not to mention herself would've perished had Zeruel reached Lilith and triggered 3I. Are the crew members aware that Shinji had quit Nerv days prior out of disgust and he himself was caught in Zereul's rampage through Tokyo 3?
Did they show Shinji through Unit 02's flight recorder vowing not pilot when Mari shows him the devastated Geofront?
Are they aware that Misato ordered an evacuation of Nerv HQ instead of staying behind to ensure Terminal Dogma was destroyed should an angel reach Lilith as she states to Shinji when he's shown Lilith?

WILLE members know Shinji piloting the Eva is what save them from the Angels.

In Shin, Misato mentioned this to remind everyone that Shinji had saved them all. However, this is not new information.

[swagbuckking1]

I'm quoting these posts from the "Who is Asuka guarding against?" thread because there is new information revealed there that I previously did not know. I have bolded the parts that stand out to me.

Just... why?!
Why would they do something like that? The pilot already have an explosive collar around their neck that could be detonated at any moment, why stuff their room with explosives, especially since we've seen in Q and Shin that Asuka (and Mari) can go around the Wunder and that she previously stayed in Village-3?!

The way you describe this room, it looks like it's the isolated room that Asuka was waling toward in the first trailers, that's the one? If so, I've seen in one of the pages of the theatrical booklet an image of Shinji strapped in a stretcher (similar to the one he was strapped in at the beginning of Q) and being transported to a similar room, I guess this is his cell. So that was what was awaited him if he had stayed in the Wunder in Q: kept completely isolated in a wide empty space surrounded by explosives after being told how he screwed up 14 years ago, that would had done wonders to his sanity!

So when Ritsuko said that the collar was a symbol of their mistrust on Shinji, she should had added that the mistrust was toward everyone of his kind, and that he hadn't seen the beginning of it yet.Godammit the more I learn about WILLE and the more unsympathetic they look.

I can't remember if there are bombs around his room, although his door locks and doesn't let him enter or leave freely.

I remember when before Shin came out people here theorized that if Shinji stayed on the Wunder, they would eventually softened to him and let him help in ways that wouldn't have involved piloting. However with these revelations it looks like they intended to keep him in an isolated room far from everyone else that is (presumably) rigged with explosives as well as keeping the choker on his neck. Not even allowed to freely leave his cell without WILLE's permission (it is unlikely they would let him out judging from these measures).

Even though Asuka and Mari were treated like this as well, at least they had each other and were able to leave as they had responsibilities in piloting. But Shinji was forbidden from piloting and was to be kept by himself except maybe being checked up on by Sakura now and again. So judging from these leaks (we will have to wait to properly see the full context) WILLE intended to lock Shinji in solitary confinement.

I have copied and pasted some of the effects of Solitary Confinement from Wikipedia below:


Psychiatric
Research indicates that the psychological effects of solitary confinement may encompass "anxiety, depression, anger, cognitive disturbances, perceptual distortions, obsessive thoughts, paranoia, and psychosis." The lack of human contact, and the sensory deprivation that often go with solitary confinement, can have a severe negative impact on a prisoner's mental state that may lead to certain mental illnesses such as depression, permanent or semi-permanent changes to brain physiology, an existential crisis, and death.

Self-harm
According to a March 2014 article in American Journal of Public Health, "Inmates in jails and prisons attempt to harm themselves in many ways, resulting in outcomes ranging from trivial to fatal." Self harm was seven times higher among the inmates where seven percent of the jail population was confined in isolation. Fifty-three percent of all acts of self harm took place in jail. "Self-harm" included, but was not limited to, cutting, banging heads, self-amputations of fingers or testicles. These inmates were in bare cells, and were prone to jumping off their beds head first into the floor or even biting through their veins in their wrists. A main issue within the prison system and solitary confinement is the high number of inmates who turn to self-harm. Many of the inmates look to self-harm as a way to "avoid the rigors of solitary confinement."

Physical
Solitary confinement has been reported to cause hypertension, headaches and migraines, profuse sweating, dizziness, and heart palpitations. Many inmates also experience extreme weight loss due to digestion complications and abdominal pain. Many of these symptoms are due to the intense anxiety and sensory deprivation. Inmates can also experience neck and back pain and muscle stiffness due to long periods of little to no physical activity. These symptoms often worsen with repeated visits to solitary confinement.

Social
The effects of isolation unfortunately do not stop once the inmate has been released. After release from segregated housing, psychological effects have the ability to sabotage a prisoner's potential to successfully return to the community and adjust back to ‘normal’ life. The inmates are often startled easily, and avoid crowds and public places. They seek out confined small spaces because the public areas overwhelm their sensory stimulation.


And this is just for solitary confinement. There are so many other things going on with and happening (or could happen) to Shinji such as the things below:

1 - Shinji being only 14 years old.
2 - Shinji being abandoned and neglected by his father.
3 - Shinji being coerced/emotionally blackmailed to pilot Unit 1.
4 - Shinji seeing girls he cared for "die".
5 - Shinji being in a coma for 14 years.
6 - Shinji being told he has a bomb on his neck.
7 - Being told it is because he is being punished.
8 - Being told he cannot pilot the eva anymore (he is effectively "useless" now).
9 - Have his former co-pilot and friend try and punch him after he thought she was dead.
10 - [Potentially] being told he started NTI and devastated the world.
11 - [Potentially] being told that the girl he tried to save is "gone" and that she was a clone of his mother.
12 - Being imprisoned in a cell (presumably) surrounded by explosives and not being able to freely leave.
13 - Be completely isolated from everyone except when being checked up by a girl who's father he got killed. (NOTE: Mari might want to see him so Shinji at least has her, maybe).
14 - Have his mother figure (the woman who made him pilot the eva the most) threaten to detonate the choker around his neck and blow his head off when he tries to leave.

With the above list, is it any wonder his head is so messed up? I understand the purpose of these films is all about growing up and taking responsibility but expecting Shinji to willingly allow himself to be subjected to the treatment WILLE had in store for him is pure, unadulterated masochism. Much of what was is written here can safely be considered cruel, inhumane and arguably, torture.

There is a massive difference between taking responsibility for one's mistakes and just letting the whole world torture you because you did something bad. My main fear and problem with Q and Thrice is that their main theme, which is accepting responsibility, is equated with accepting unreasonably cruel treatment. And I just think that is an EXTREMELY unhealthy message to send to people especially if they are depressed or live in abusive relationships.

However, thanks to Shinji Ikari Expy's advice I am moving on from these films. I am beginning to think the extreme reaction from WILLE is just unreasonable (even IF they have been at war for 14 years) and a result of bad, incoherent scriptwriting. In other words, misery porn for the sake of it.

[Konja7]

I remember when before Shin came out people here theorized that if Shinji stayed on the Wunder, they would eventually softened to him and let him help in ways that wouldn't have involved piloting. However with these revelations it looks like they intended to keep him in an isolated room far from everyone else that is (presumably) rigged with explosives as well as keeping the choker on his neck. Not even allowed to freely leave his cell without WILLE's permission (it is unlikely they would let him out judging from these measures).

It is true that WILLE members will likely never trust on Shinji. After all, they don't trust on Asuka and Mari, even although they have helped WILLE for 14 years.

However, we don't know if WILLE plans Shinji to be their permanent prisoner. WILLE still allow Asuka to be on Village 3, since she has developed a close relationship with Kensuke in these 14 years. So, Asuka and Mari still have certain freedom.

That said, it's pretty likely Shinji won't have this freedom at first.

However, thanks to Shinji Ikari Expy's advice I am moving on from these films. I am beginning to think the extreme reaction from WILLE is just unreasonable (even IF they have been at war for 14 years) and a result of bad, incoherent scriptwriting. In other words, misery porn for the sake of it.

I don't think it's bad incoherent scriptwriting.

WILLE actions are clearly guided by fear, so they are desperate and unreasonable. They don't even trust Asuka and Mari, who helped them for 14 years. So, the treatment toward Shinji would even be worse, since they blame him for the Earth situation.

We may not like their actions, but I think these are consistent and coherent with their situation and mentality.

[Derantor]

However, we don't know if WILLE plans Shinji to be their permanent prisoner. WILLE still allow Asuka to be on Village 3, since she has developed a close relationship with Kensuke in these 14 years. So, Asuka and Mari still have certain freedom.

More like Misato doesn't want Asuka around aboard Wunder. She still wears her choker, so it's not like she can actually do anything to disobey, either. At least not in any meaningful way.

Shinji won't be held prisoner. He saved the world, after all, and he made it so that the world is no longer in any danger from him. There are no more Evas; he can't cause another Impact, even if he wanted to. He most likely lost his special non-Lilin status too, when he returned. Wouldn't make sense to remove "magic" from the world while staying special himself. That is if he even returns to the same world the others return to: it's also possible that he entered another reality with Mari.

[Konja7]

Shinji won't be held prisoner. He saved the world, after all, and he made it so that the world is no longer in any danger from him. There are no more Evas; he can't cause another Impact, even if he wanted to. He most likely lost his special non-Lilin status too, when he returned. Wouldn't make sense to remove "magic" from the world while staying special himself. That is if he even returns to the same world the others return to: it's also possible that he entered another reality with Mari.

Of course, Shinji will have total freedom after he saved the world at the end of Shin.

However, I was speaking on the hypothetical case that he stayed with WILLE in Q.

In that hypothetical case, I'm not sure if Shinji will be a permanent prisoner. He would likely be a prisoner at first, but WILLE may allow him some "freedom".


PS: Shinji seems to still be a Lilin in Shin. He still needs to eat and he couldn't survive in the red Earth evironment.

[Xiel]

You're right that the restoration of the Earth using Alien technology was never the "wrong" choice. The issue was always Shinji's attitude and he was "punished" by that in Q.

That said, the message wasn't so clear at the time of Q (it isn't so weird to interpret it as Shinji being "punished" for wanting to take a fast solution). So, many theories and expectatives were developed in these nine years.

Now, Shin confirms that the use of Alien technology to restore the world was always the solution. So, there will be disappointed people with this resolution.

This interpretation always overlooked that WILLE is using Magic Alien Technology to do anything. So it was hypocritical from the start. The Wunder and everything they used to salvage the planet and humanity is Eva-related magic stuff they modified. Eva 01 was even brought by them to make the Wunder has a better engine.

Movies are audiovisual medium, audio (music) are also part of the experience. While so many songs are classical or pop songs, there are songs that are made by Sagisu to set the mood of the scene. The 'dark' songs in Q, about Shinji's mistakes proven by lyrics, is about his betrayal of Kaworu's trust. His desperation, immaturity, tunnel vision made him disregard the warnings of the person who was carrying the sins he didn't even want to shoulder, and the sacrifice Shinji -not Kaworu- should be ready to make to atone and grab the happiness he wanted. That was his main mistake (other than Gendo and SEELE sabotage, but this wouldn't have worked if Shinji had stopped when Kaworu pleaded).

[Derantor]

@Konja7: He was fine traversing the wastes with Asuka & Rei, in a place where the L-Barrier-Density was too high for Lilin, and Asuka implies that it's only a matter of time before he won't need to eat anymore.

Edit: Deleted the double post above.

[Xiel]

Thank you for deleting that unintentional double post. I had meant to edit mine and I clicked the wrong option.

And yes, not listening to Kaworu when he told Shinji to stop because the spears were the wrong ones is part of the "learn to listen to the others" theme, but let's imagine that the spears in the chamber were the good ones, do you think that Asuka and Mari and Misato would had let them do it? No, Shinji and Kaworu would had to defeat them all to do whatever Kaworu planned to do in peace, which would had conveyed the message that those silly people at WILLE don't know better and should let the people with the angelic powers do their thing.

To be fair, Misato didn't know they could magic everything out with the spears by going to the Minus Universe or that the Fourth Impact and the next ones may not be that bad (that would depend on the person in charge), or that her father was the one behind the Impact theory. So when she found out, she made her own magic spear for Shinji because Gendo had grabbed the other ones. There is a problem of communication, of course, between WILLE and those two, but a lot seemed staged by Gendo and SEELE (divide and conquer strategy: Gendo basically used them all to have most of his pieces on the palm of his hand, he made WILLE and Shinji kill Kaworu so he can use his body and soul; if Kaworu were alive he couldn't do anything). Maybe if Kaji had been alive, it would've been different.

Mari seemed aware, why she didn't say anything, is a mystery. She didn't have any stygma like Shinji or Kaworu did.

[Konja7]

@Konja7: He was fine traversing the wastes with Asuka & Rei, in a place where the L-Barrier-Density was too high for Lilin, and Asuka implies that it's only a matter of time before he won't need to eat anymore.

Edit: Deleted the double post above.

I have understood Shinji has an special suit at that time. He is found and saved by Kensuke when this suit stop to work.

I can't confirm it, but it is what I read.

Mari seemed aware, why she didn't say anything, is a mystery. She didn't have any stygma like Shinji or Kaworu did.

Mari has a big stygma that 14 years working for WILLE doesn't seem to totally erase.

Also, Mari doesn't know what Kaworu and Shinji are panning. She may think they plan to follow SEELE's plan.

[Xiel]

Mari has a big stygma that 14 years working for WILLE doesn't seem to totally erase.

Also, Mari doesn't know what Kaworu and Shinji are panning. She may think they plan to follow SEELE's plan.

Mari didn't tell Misato anything about the spears, or the Impact theory which she knew about as was part of that research group. Gendo had to randomly infodump it after revealing himself as Cyclops from the X-Men (Pattern Blue). Misato immediately wanted to use that too once she found out, that's why she made a special spear so Shinji can wrestle the control from Gendo. A lot would have been solved if these characters communicate properly. But it wouldn't be Eva without misunderstandings (I don't blame Kaworu or Shinji here, because they were isolated and probably treated with hostility).

[Derantor]

I have understood Shinji has an special suit at that time. He is found and saved by Kensuke when this suit stop to work. I can't confirm it, but it is what I read.

Oh? That's new info to me. In any case, there's more pointing at his special status: for one, he's able to pilot an Eva and awaken it (which requires the pilot to be special, contrary to the mother-child link of NGE), his eyes change color, and he's one of the "children with fate built into them". The choker, too, points at his inherent otherness.

[The18°angel]

swagbuckking1#920777  SPOILER: Show

I'm quoting these posts from the "Who is Asuka guarding against?" thread because there is new information revealed there that I previously did not know. I have bolded the parts that stand out to me.

Just... why?!
Why would they do something like that? The pilot already have an explosive collar around their neck that could be detonated at any moment, why stuff their room with explosives, especially since we've seen in Q and Shin that Asuka (and Mari) can go around the Wunder and that she previously stayed in Village-3?!

The way you describe this room, it looks like it's the isolated room that Asuka was waling toward in the first trailers, that's the one? If so, I've seen in one of the pages of the theatrical booklet an image of Shinji strapped in a stretcher (similar to the one he was strapped in at the beginning of Q) and being transported to a similar room, I guess this is his cell. So that was what was awaited him if he had stayed in the Wunder in Q: kept completely isolated in a wide empty space surrounded by explosives after being told how he screwed up 14 years ago, that would had done wonders to his sanity!

So when Ritsuko said that the collar was a symbol of their mistrust on Shinji, she should had added that the mistrust was toward everyone of his kind, and that he hadn't seen the beginning of it yet.Godammit the more I learn about WILLE and the more unsympathetic they look.

I can't remember if there are bombs around his room, although his door locks and doesn't let him enter or leave freely.

I remember when before Shin came out people here theorized that if Shinji stayed on the Wunder, they would eventually softened to him and let him help in ways that wouldn't have involved piloting. However with these revelations it looks like they intended to keep him in an isolated room far from everyone else that is (presumably) rigged with explosives as well as keeping the choker on his neck. Not even allowed to freely leave his cell without WILLE's permission (it is unlikely they would let him out judging from these measures).

Even though Asuka and Mari were treated like this as well, at least they had each other and were able to leave as they had responsibilities in piloting. But Shinji was forbidden from piloting and was to be kept by himself except maybe being checked up on by Sakura now and again. So judging from these leaks (we will have to wait to properly see the full context) WILLE intended to lock Shinji in solitary confinement.

I have copied and pasted some of the effects of Solitary Confinement from Wikipedia below:


Psychiatric
Research indicates that the psychological effects of solitary confinement may encompass "anxiety, depression, anger, cognitive disturbances, perceptual distortions, obsessive thoughts, paranoia, and psychosis." The lack of human contact, and the sensory deprivation that often go with solitary confinement, can have a severe negative impact on a prisoner's mental state that may lead to certain mental illnesses such as depression, permanent or semi-permanent changes to brain physiology, an existential crisis, and death.

Self-harm
According to a March 2014 article in American Journal of Public Health, "Inmates in jails and prisons attempt to harm themselves in many ways, resulting in outcomes ranging from trivial to fatal." Self harm was seven times higher among the inmates where seven percent of the jail population was confined in isolation. Fifty-three percent of all acts of self harm took place in jail. "Self-harm" included, but was not limited to, cutting, banging heads, self-amputations of fingers or testicles. These inmates were in bare cells, and were prone to jumping off their beds head first into the floor or even biting through their veins in their wrists. A main issue within the prison system and solitary confinement is the high number of inmates who turn to self-harm. Many of the inmates look to self-harm as a way to "avoid the rigors of solitary confinement."

Physical
Solitary confinement has been reported to cause hypertension, headaches and migraines, profuse sweating, dizziness, and heart palpitations. Many inmates also experience extreme weight loss due to digestion complications and abdominal pain. Many of these symptoms are due to the intense anxiety and sensory deprivation. Inmates can also experience neck and back pain and muscle stiffness due to long periods of little to no physical activity. These symptoms often worsen with repeated visits to solitary confinement.

Social
The effects of isolation unfortunately do not stop once the inmate has been released. After release from segregated housing, psychological effects have the ability to sabotage a prisoner's potential to successfully return to the community and adjust back to ‘normal’ life. The inmates are often startled easily, and avoid crowds and public places. They seek out confined small spaces because the public areas overwhelm their sensory stimulation.


And this is just for solitary confinement. There are so many other things going on with and happening (or could happen) to Shinji such as the things below:

1 - Shinji being only 14 years old.
2 - Shinji being abandoned and neglected by his father.
3 - Shinji being coerced/emotionally blackmailed to pilot Unit 1.
4 - Shinji seeing girls he cared for "die".
5 - Shinji being in a coma for 14 years.
6 - Shinji being told he has a bomb on his neck.
7 - Being told it is because he is being punished.
8 - Being told he cannot pilot the eva anymore (he is effectively "useless" now).
9 - Have his former co-pilot and friend try and punch him after he thought she was dead.
10 - [Potentially] being told he started NTI and devastated the world.
11 - [Potentially] being told that the girl he tried to save is "gone" and that she was a clone of his mother.
12 - Being imprisoned in a cell (presumably) surrounded by explosives and not being able to freely leave.
13 - Be completely isolated from everyone except when being checked up by a girl who's father he got killed. (NOTE: Mari might want to see him so Shinji at least has her, maybe).
14 - Have his mother figure (the woman who made him pilot the eva the most) threaten to detonate the choker around his neck and blow his head off when he tries to leave.

With the above list, is it any wonder his head is so messed up? I understand the purpose of these films is all about growing up and taking responsibility but expecting Shinji to willingly allow himself to be subjected to the treatment WILLE had in store for him is pure, unadulterated masochism. Much of what was is written here can safely be considered cruel, inhumane and arguably, torture.

There is a massive difference between taking responsibility for one's mistakes and just letting the whole world torture you because you did something bad. My main fear and problem with Q and Thrice is that their main theme, which is accepting responsibility, is equated with accepting unreasonably cruel treatment. And I just think that is an EXTREMELY unhealthy message to send to people especially if they are depressed or live in abusive relationships.

However, thanks to Shinji Ikari Expy's advice I am moving on from these films. I am beginning to think the extreme reaction from WILLE is just unreasonable (even IF they have been at war for 14 years) and a result of bad, incoherent scriptwriting. In other words, misery porn for the sake of it.

you know it was good that Shinji had spend time in village 03 because had he been taken to the wunder and put in isolation when the moment of truth arrived and WILLE was about to lose, where would he have offered to pilot Misato would had to go to look for him to his cell to ask him to pilot unit 01 and basically we would have had EOE rebuild version where Shinji(if he does not say fuck it and tells Misato to eat shit and use the das choker on him because he will not Pilot or do something again... ever) would have lost against gendo after Mari suffered the same fate as Asuka against the Eva series and yui or Rei for some reason manages to take the control of the fourth impact and after a therapy and rape mind of those involved he decides to give everyone another chance and he wakes up on the beach with the world destroyed again and with the "possibility" that people will return. And the scene with mari, Asuka and Shinji in the cell would have been very different.

What makes me unable to empathize with Misato is the fact that while she not capable of killing Shinji when the fate of the world is in her hands (just when unit 09 rescued him from the wunder) she is perfectly fine with putting him in a isolation cell that can break ordinary people after a while imagine what that would do to Shinji in that scenario and that at the end of the day he is the key to winning.

[swagbuckking1]

What makes me unable to empathize with Misato is the fact that while she not capable of killing Shinji when the fate of the world is in her hands (just when unit 09 rescued him from the wunder) she is perfectly fine with putting him in a isolation cell that can break ordinary people after a while imagine what that would do to Shinji in that scenario and that at the end of the day he is the key to winning.

Yeah, I agree. This treatment is arguably worse than killing him. Trying to subject him to a fate where even hardened criminals resort to self-harm, self-mutilation and suicide in order to escape it, is pretty irredeemable. Saying they're only doing it because they are "understandably" fearful and paranoid is increasingly looking like a cop-out to me. Just kill him if you're that afraid, don't keep him alive just so you can isolate and break him.

you know it was good that Shinji had spend time in village 03 because had he been taken to the wunder and put in isolation when the moment of truth arrived and WILLE was about to lose, where would he have offered to pilot Misato would had to go to look for him to his cell to ask him to pilot unit 01 and basically we would have had EOE rebuild version where Shinji(if he does not say fuck it and tells Misato to eat shit and use the das choker on him because he will not Pilot or do something again... ever) would have lost against gendo after Mari suffered the same fate as Asuka against the Eva series and yui or Rei for some reason manages to take the control of the fourth impact and after a therapy and rape mind of those involved he decides to give everyone another chance and he wakes up on the beach with the world destroyed again and with the "possibility" that people will return. And the scene with mari, Asuka and Shinji in the cell would have been very different.

Imagine the "Punished Shinji" timeline. Where Shinji just says F*CK IT and kills Misato, Gendo, Ritsuko, Fuyutsuki, all of WILLE and all of NERV. That would have been hilarious and not to mention cathartic. Perhaps we could've got this if Anno made 3.0+1.0 straight after 3.0 when he had depression.

Yeah but seriously. If Shinji never left with Rei Q and Misato successfully kept him in an explosively rigged, solitary cell with a remotely triggered bomb around his neck only to then ask him to pilot Unit 1 again.....

If I was in that position, it wouldn't have mattered how many bullets Misato would have taken for me, I wouldn't have piloted. I would've preferred to be tanged.