Why did Asuka reincarnate on that beach?

[Themaninblack]

I knew that already The Pics are from Rei III and the dialgoue is from EoE

No, it's from episode 20.]

Yeah...when I saw Misato's lines there I should have been able to figure that out.

As to what else you said that means very little. It could have been a flawed process returning her into her body...one similar to that of her Mother's soul entering the Eva, and we all know that her mother no longer had lost her (tell me if I spell this wrong)libdo was missing correct. Only part of Asuka could be standing before Shinji...not all of her.

It doesn't mean little. Part of Kyoko's soul was ripped out by EVA-02, the maternal part. Asuka had no such factor present. Destrudo simpily cannot restore someone it can only destroy. It's the force responsible for 3I for crying out loud.[/quote]

I already surrened to the fact the Destrudo can't restore someone back to life. But given Asuka's demanor and apperance, why can't we assume it was a flawed proccess? If she realized her deep truth I doubt she would carry around around bandages for something that not only didn't really hurt her...but would corrspond to something that she would reailzed isn't a part of her life.

[Sailor Star Dust]

Have you bothered considering other possibilities? Like physical exhaustion for example.

Agreed, considering kicking down a gravemarker along with deciding to live on can probably take it out of you.

In terms of Asuka appearing in her Plugsuit and Interface Headset, isn't that just because it was the last thing she had on in Reality before being turned into LCL, similar with those injuries?

This series script example is kinda in terms of something else, but I think you'd get the idea:

RITSUKO:
All of the substances which composed Shinji are still preserved in the plug,
and what could be called his soul exists there as well.
In fact, his self-image is pseudo-substantiating his plug suit.

IBUKI:
In other words, salvaging him means reconstructing his body and
anchoring his psyche within it.

Anyway, I still say the fact Asuka caressed Shinji's cheek means she at least learned something. It doesn't mean she's going to be Miss Cheerful Rainbows and Sunshine, but at least it's a start with becoming a better person.

[Eva Yojimbo]

This might be the epic post to end all epics. Sorry for the length and for typing what very few will read:

... She was happy that no one was there to force them to be together, and didn't want him to spoil that?

I’m sure that’s it. ;)

So... if Shinji marched back and fourth and yelled at it, it would of come crumbling down? (Except for some small part that.... hmm... na, that part of the story doesn't fit at all...)

I think this was answered regarding Shinji not having the horn.

True, still I find it hard to believe she was already falling for him at that point, I would think her own internal defenses would last just a little longer until Episode 10...

She wasn’t falling for him. She was hurting and wanted someone to comfort her (that’s just what she states).

From one that originally saw things from Shinji's point of view *raises glass and tips his head*

I can see it from both points equally. My personality is like the perfect amalgamation of the two (literally, I’m not kidding here).

Fine, But I still say it wasn't as traumatic, he couldn't remember what his mother looked like though.

Don’t take this the wrong way, but who are you to judge how traumatic a mother’s death in front of her child and father’s forceful abandonment after that mother dies would be on said child? After Yui’s “death”, Gendo dragged Shinji to a train, crying, and sent him away. That would traumatize me. To think that my mother died, and at a time when I needed the most support my father not just abandoned me, but did so like that.

That's only one side of the equation, there is also how they regard what was said. Asuka's mother left the impression she was not loved at all, that it was better for her just to die. On the other hand, Shinji knew his mother had cared for him, and initially thought there was a chance to get his father to do the same.

The point Anno is making about Shinji not remembering his mother is the effect that his father’s abandoning him had on him. The same way Asuka felt she was hated by her mother, Shinji felt the same thing about his father. The only difference is that afterwards, Shinji was performing for his father’s love and attention and Asuka for everyone else’s.

It does if you wish to understand them, and since we did not witness most of Asuka's Instrumentality, it's makes it all the more relevant to develop a coherent 'theory of mind' about her.

I understand her mind, but I’m saying that to a child what Shinji experienced was equally as traumatic. There exists a theory called the maximum threshold of misery. This applies to everything: When a certain threshold has been reached in terms of misery, you feel nothing more beyond that. This is a kind of defense mechanism your body cooks up so you don’t go insane. When people reach this, logic and the importance of future decisions go out the window. This is because of the theory that “it can’t get any worse”.
I’m suggesting that both Shinji and Asuka’s childhood traumas were bad enough that they reached that level. It was such a high level that it completely shaped their personalities from an early age, and every subsequent thing that formed in their ego and personality was built around that. The only argument you could possibly have would be that perhaps Shinji’s would be easier to overcome. But I’ll get to this later.

True, he is merely a trigger for a greater fear, but he is the only one who can serve as that trigger, no one else could or would be able to pilot the Eva to his extent (though Asuka came close), Rei, though she was a largely stable pilot, I wager it is because she lacked passion that she would never be able to bring out Unit-00's full potential, and was therefore not a threat (not until she already had fallen at least).

Rei’s problem with Zero is another story, but the short version is due partly to the soul of Lilith’s being split, and partly due to Zero’s inherent design flaws. But atleast you get the trigger/cause concept.

Her reasoning was selfish, her means, admittedly not the best, but she did make statements to him that were or came close to the truth, about his weakness, his shear lack of will, his inability to make his own decisions, his need to stand-up for himself. Her intentions may have been borne out of error, and her words, insulting, but that doesn't mean she wasn’t right.

Being right doesn’t change people. If all of our wars have proven anything it’s that. You can’t change people by sheer force of will, nor can you make them take note of their own flaws and change for the better. Change comes out of a personal will, and it’s only then can another help in recovery. But my mere point was that Asuka telling Shinji “like it is” was nothing but conceitedness on her part.

He knew his problem, remember that concept of Kierkegaard's I spoke of called "Sickness Unto death"? The thing is that he called himself a child, and therefore rationalized that as an excuse not to do anything, it's a paradox, one he uses to protect himself. So while he may not of confronted this then for plot reasons, that doesn't make what he did here any less wrong.

Both he and Asuka recognized a problem consciously. His problem lies in his unconscious, because that’s where it’s been pushed. His conscious has been built around that unconscious trauma. And even though he recognizes he has a problem, he does not recognize the cause until later, and even then he doesn’t know how to fix it.

More real to life I'd say.

I think they’re both entirely real to life. They’re essentially mirrors to each other really, and that’s how Anno intended to portray them.

The angel experience was traumatic at first, but he discovered his mother's presence within the Eva then. As to being "sucked into mother", he learned things from that event, nor do I believe that being so near to her in that way was completely unpleasant for him. GNR was confusing and probably more then a bit scary, but painful? And the crucifixion does not compare to what Asuka suffered at the hands of the MP series herself.

Lol, I’d like to see you go through all of that and then say “meh, it wasn’t that big of a deal”. Asuka’s traumas were more physical, Shinji’s more mental (the mind rape being the sole exception).

As to Touji, he only found out he was hurting his "best friend" after-the-fact, still Touji might not of been hurt at all had he decided to combat EVA-03 personally, he could of tried to disable it, or cleared the goo around the plug so it could eject, instead he made the decision that wore better on his own conscience, it wasn't completely selfish, but nor was it selfless.

Shinji was being ordered to destroy the angel and he refused. He likely had no idea how to stop the Angel without hurting the pilot inside, so he felt it best to sacrifice himself for the pilot. That WAS entirely selfless. But let’s do keep a small thing in mind that it is a TV show and they had to have time to get the whole dummy plug thing in.

As to Kawrou, well, Asuka lost her mother just as she regained her again, she failed to ensure both of them were protected, how do you think that made her feel?

I don’t think Asuka felt like she lost her. Her power ran out, and if they both presumably died in Ni then they would be soon reunited in Instrumentality. Kaworu was more traumatic. He was the first person who ever showed real kindness to Shinji (don’t bring up Misato, she had her own reasons that were selfish too), and he was forced to kill him. THAT would be traumatic.

As to "deciding the fate of the world"... he realized the truth about himself, that was okay to live, and blah blah blah... so exactly how is that suffering?

You don’t think you’d suffer carrying the burden and weight of all humanity on your shoulder’s? It wasn’t an easy thing for Shinji to decide to end Instrumentality – as it shouldn’t be for anyone in that frame of mind.

His ultimate decision was to give that decision to everyone else, whether they lived as united goo or as individuals, was left up to themselves. So really, the only person's fate he decided then was his own, as it should be.

Whether they’re united or not is a point of contention. But the idea that he was still forced to choose both whether to start, and then whether to end instrumentality or not holds.

Again, you're mixing up terms, it's not just being "better", it's being replaced, this was not brought on by Shinji simply "out performing her", it's that he could do what she could not, despite the kind of person he was. She couldn't fight the 12th angel, this she realized while listening to Ritsuko's seminar, yet Shinji, the supposed helpless victim in this after making a stupid mistake, pulled a complete reversal and defeated it anyway Then there was the 14th, she did her damnedest to defeat it, sent at it round after round, even did a last ditch charge after she had lost her both arms. But for all her effort, she didn't even scratch it! She merely slowed it down, if even that. No, it was Shinji, even after losing an arm himself, who defeated it, even after his “childish acts” and his decision to leave. Finally the 15th, her last chance to redeem herself, to "even the score" as it were, to prove that she could still do the job, and yet, once again, she couldn't hold under the Angel's assault, this time she couldn't even hold it together long enough to hit it! Even within the bounds of her own mind she couldn't fight it off, instead it did as it pleased, just as the 14th had done. And who came to her rescue? Did they send "Super Soldier Ikari", whom they were keeping in reserve at the time, to her defense? No! She wasn't worth that! Instead they had 'Wondergirl' go fetch some weapon she never heard of, which was hurled towards the sky and blew away the angel instantly!

And let’s assume for a second your position that Asuka was indeed piloting because she knew the importance of saving the world: In all of the Shinji instances she should’ve recognized that it was not Shinji pulling of some miracle but the Eva. She even notes at the end of 16 “I’m piloting something like that?” She had no reason to think that was Shinji’s doing after he was helpless for all that time. Then, in 18 it was not Shinji but the dummy plug system. Then, in 19, it was not Shinji again. Asuka surely figured something was up when Shinji was sucked into Sho.
The point is that Asuka JUST DIDN’T CARE! All she cared about was the fact that she lost, and she couldn’t take it. Yes, this was ultimately due to her fearing not being needed anymore, but she should’ve known that she was still needed, and could’ve been helpful. In 22 she ignores an order not to go out, and she pays the price for disobeying. Why did she rush out? To save everyone from an Angel in outer space or to prove herself? This was another utterly selfish act that got punished. And I’m not saying Shinji’s incidents were any better, because his selfishness was duly punished too.

Now, I can understand being “broken” after the mind rape, but my point is simply that it’s because of her own selfishness that she arrived at that point. Shinji was merely a catalyst for something that was bound to happen eventually. I would even make the argument that if there was no Shinji Asuka would’ve still suffered a similar fate. Ultimately, it wasn’t even about Shinji being better, but about her failing. Fear of failure stems from the same fear of being worthless. But logical Asuka would’ve known she wasn’t worthless – and even if she had to play backup she could’ve been useful. But Asuka doesn’t play backup. What’s the old gradeschool thing? Doesn’t play well with others?

Now she was last, as in the past four engagements she hadn't produced any results at all! Although she been involved in all of them, it was only Rei and Shinji who were delivering, even though they were weak, even though they lacked ‘minds of their own’, they were still able to accomplish what she could not, they had the capability to be strong when they needed it most, but she couldn't, for all her talk, for all her years of preparation, and even starting out with the best synch ratio, she no longer had the capability to even be their equal.

That’s because Asuka needed to be put in her place. The idea that started from youth (I’m going to prove myself and live on my own, I don’t need anyone) was a sick choice. It is not a choice that is made in good health. This sick choice produced a state that was equally sick in Asuka. It spread like a disease, and she was eaten up by it. Asuka’s ultimate lesson was that you can’t always be in control. You can’t always do without others. She convinced herself she didn’t need a mother, and was proven wrong, and it was only in EoE that she realized this. She convinced herself she didn’t need anyone, but was constantly challenging Shinji to comfort her. She HAD to learn that this concept was entirely wrong. And she couldn’t learn if she was proven right.

Asuka doesn't have an excuse for how she acts, but she does have far more cause for how she thinks.

I think you underestimate the impact childhood traumas have. You’re trying to place an arbitrary distinction between bad and worse when really there’s only terrible and terrible. At that age, kids do no have a “level of trauma” barometer to measure how bad their situation is. It simply is or it isn’t. And in their case, the is that was was ultimately bad enough to shape their entire personalities.

he put his own needs more then once in front of the common good,

Lol. And Asuka doesn’t. :roll:

twice becoming "a hero" at the last possible moment, doing something that should of been obvious, but it is his very nature that keeps him from seeing it.

Rushing back to save those at Nerv had nothing to do with not being able to see it “because of his nature”. He was just forced to nearly kill his best friend by his father. I would’ve left too.

When humanity's own existence is at stake, you don't worry about "oh it's going to painful", or, "I don't like doing this, you do it because it needs to be done! You do it because it is the right thing to do!

Go sign up for the marines then. It needs to be done today too. I don’t see you or anyone here rushing out to try and save the world. This isn’t an ad hominem but a point: Most people would not be willing to wager their lives on the lives of others. They simply wouldn’t. Then, take into account that these are teenagers. The very point in life when one begins to form their ego. Then take into account that Shinji had no idea what he was doing. Then take into account he really had no reason to live. Shinji was in no frame of mind to risk his life for others. He was never given any such confidence or morality or strong sense of will. I wonder why that was?

Even at that age it isn't hard to understand, Shinji himself was aware of it and even mentioned it several times, but for some reason didn't actually think of it as justification for piloting the Eva, no instead he felt he needed some “other” reason, because apparently protecting all the people whom he thought "hated him" wasn't good enough, as if they hate you, then why should you care for them at all?

You made my point for me. Asuka needed “another” reason as well, and Shinji had no reason to save those he felt hated him. Again, I think you’re underestimating the power of the unconscious on Shinji. That which has shaped his personality is telling him what to do. And if it was so easy to make a conscious decision to ignore your unconscious reasoning then nobody would have these conflicts of consciousness VS unconsciousness.

He was going to let the world fend for itself, all because of his delusion that people didn't actually care for him, and he would of ended the world for the same reason, but choice words from Misato, Rei, Asuka, and even Gendo, along with things thought up by himself because of them and his “theory of mind” of them in instrumentality were able to deter him otherwise...

His delusion is justified as much as Asuka’s. If the one person who is supposed to care for you in your greatest time of need ends up forcefully abandoning you, what else would you think?

Asuka might have had just selfish reasons for piloting the Eva, but at least she never lost sight of how important her job was.

This silly statement was debunked by AEF.

I have no extreme bias towards Asuka, just against Shinji, because of how similar we are, because I know that if I were in his position (not knowing what I do now), I would of acted the same, and the very thought of it makes me sick to my stomach, of how he can so easily disregard the cares of others, when he is so otherwise worried about it.

One must be cared for by others in order to care for others. We cannot give what we haven’t received. Shinji never received it, and can’t give it. His development is perfectly natural, and I can’t imagine how someone who once thought the same way cannot see the unconscious reasoning behind it. It’s not about defending the delusion, but about merely acknowledging its existence. If we acknowledge its existence (and validity within Shinji’s mind) then you have no argument my friend. The only argument thenceforth is how easy it would’ve been to overcome this affliction between unconscious desire VS conscious will.

I also don't look at the message as being "evenhanded", because it was Shinji whom was the focal point, the one whom Mr. Anno identified as his own persona inside of the show, and the one whom was given that ultimate decision for humanity. The message still bears on the other characters, but none had quite the same problem that he did:

Anno created Asuka as a counterpoint to Shinji to show how two people can suffer the same problem (abandonment, hatred of others, self-hate, desire to be needed and loved) and deal with it in entirely opposite ways. This balance is completely broken when one or the other is favored or disfavored. There’s a reason those two were chosen to be the “couple” in this perverted little waltz of Anno’s, and that’s because they’re essentially suffering from the same thing. Here’s two people, who dealt with similar traumas, both desperately wanting to be wanted, both in a perfect position to help the other, and neither being able to give for wanting to be needed. It's almost ironic.

a lot of them are, ah, kind of hard to miss, don't you think? ( I mustn’t run away!, man is fundamentally alone, the need to be needed, where do we go from here? etc.) It's understanding them which is key, and I found the literary works as well as the sites helpful in that regard.

Some of them are hard to miss, some are pretty darn subtle. I think the hand motif is the one that’s caused the most confusion. It’s one of the most recognized but, I feel, the one most misunderstood.

That doesn't mean her soul was demented.

Have you heard Kyoko in EoE talking to Asuka in the lake?

And that would be where yours and my opinions differ my friend, if you derive more meaning that way then so be it, but I find it has less meaning for myself if I regard them as "equals", which I simply cannot see them as anyway.

Then you’re not seeing them how Anno saw them. How do you figure he created this couple that was so alike and then intended for others to treat them differently?

Still, she did the best she could with what she knew, and on her own, while Shinji had to be consoled into doing the right thing, hell, do anything really, but she did not, and I assert she was even fighting for the right reasons in EoE.

That doesn’t change the fact that she was doing it for selfish reasons the same as Shinji. Shinji had to be coaxed precisely because he didn’t have a decade of training and had no idea what he was doing.

True, but I would more blame the people that were encouraging her in that respect for the last ten years then her, herself in that respect.

Asuka was not a puppet, remember? ;)

Even if it wasn't a driving reason behind why she piloted it, she did realize that, for it was why she would recieve praise for doing it!

Then surely Shinji realized the same thing. ;)

As to commiting suicide, no, she still realized how important the job was, the two don't correlate. She did that because she was unable to do the job anymore, because there was something fundamental she first needed to realize about the Eva itself, something Rei tried to explain to her, but she ignored at the time.

And why do you think she ignored what Rei tried to tell her? I’ll say because it all had to be about her.

He didn't attone, because he needs to put his words, that lesson as you say, into further action, realizing his problem then making a descision based on that is only the first step, and he by no means has proven as of yet he's fully rejected his old ways,

I think the ending is a pretty subtle clue he’s changed. The old Shinji wouldn’t have choked Asuka like that (Don’t bring up instrumentality, entirely different situation).

after her brief zenith as tactical commander against Matariel.

Further proof of her ineptness at working on her own without needing others. Pride cometh before the fall, afterall.

If there were only supposed to be two people in the world who can do what you are doing, and you have always been the better of the two, and you are only where you are after years of training, you might be forgiven for assuming that.

Sure, but if the fate of the world was my main concern I certainly wouldn’t have given up.

Re: The bandage stuff: What I'm trying to say with that is Asuka's injuries in that battle WERE real (hence the blood spraying from her arm and her eye bleeding), but she simply "imagined herself in her own heart" healed yet bandaged since those injuries were the last thing she remembered alive.

I can agree with this.

Either way, yes, the bandages ARE a carry-over from the MP Eva Series battle. They're also a "visual clue" of Shinji leaving his "mother figures" (Yui: revealing herself to Shinji in Epi.16 and her farewell=the caress), (Rei: first meeting her at NERV=she's in bandages) for Asuka. Leaving Mother is the First Other for your Significant Other and all that. Reichu is made of win.

Moreover, I think the bandages wrap up a theme of “damaged souls create damaged actions”: Where in NGE the eye represents the soul and the arm/hand represents action. I think it says something that she’s caressing Shinji with her “damaged” arm – perhaps representing a resolution to the damage? I also wonder about the difference between right and left. I’ve heard that in Japan there is a certain correlation with this, but I’d wait for others to back this up before speculating.

With regards to any of this "Who suffered more?" argument, my stance is that they ALL suffered equally! All of the characters dealt with things that were painful, and saying that one was/is far worse off than the other is just absurd.

QFFT! Thank you!

[Semisubtle]

In terms of Asuka appearing in her Plugsuit and Interface Headset, isn't that just because it was the last thing she had on in Reality before being turned into LCL, similar with those injuries?

I believe she appears that way simply because that's how she chose to be shown. Shinji wanted to return to a normal life, so he's in his regular school clothes. Asuka always craved the recognition associated with piloting an Eva, and her appearance reflected that.

Anyway, I still say the fact Asuka caressed Shinji's cheek means she at least learned something. It doesn't mean she's going to be Miss Cheerful Rainbows and Sunshine, but at least it's a start with becoming a better person.

That sounds accurate to me. I think it's safe to assume she endured a somewhat similar experience to Shinji (I mean the whole self-examination and reflection thing, not everything else XD), so not only is it meaningful to Shinji, but it also shows the way Asuka has changed. They've both become a bit more mature.

[Anonymous_Evafan]

If she realized her deep truth I doubt she would carry around around bandages for something that not only didn't really hurt her...but would corrspond to something that she would reailzed isn't a part of her life.

I don't think she had some great epiphany. At the very end she sounds like the same unsympathetic, bitchy girl we've known through the series. Not to mention she still clings to her identity as an Eva pilot. The challange for both of them is to grow the fuck up.

[Semisubtle]

But Shinji already has grown up by the mere fact that he chose to live life as it is, no matter how harsh, over a fake but happy reality. The same must be true for Asuka, because she didn't push him away when he started to cry all over her.

[Themaninblack]

If she realized her deep truth I doubt she would carry around around bandages for something that not only didn't really hurt her...but would corrspond to something that she would reailzed isn't a part of her life.

I don't think she had some great epiphany. At the very end she sounds like the same unsympathetic, bitchy girl we've known through the series. Not to mention she still clings to her identity as an Eva pilot. The challange for both of them is to grow the fuck up.

But thats my point...it is apparently pretty fucking hard in order to materialize in a human body agian after 3I. If you learned some great truth...though I doubt you'd be completeley fixed up, would be on better ground than you started on. This Asuka looks a lot like the Asuka we all saw who lying naked in a bath tub in a destroyed house after a failed sucide attempt. So...why come back at all?

[Sachi]

But Shinji already has grown up by the mere fact that he chose to live life as it is, no matter how harsh, over a fake but happy reality. The same must be true for Asuka, because she didn't push him away when he started to cry all over her.

in a way, we all grew up after 3I ^.^

[Anonymous_Evafan]

But thats my point...it is apparently pretty fucking hard in order to materialize in a human body agian after 3I. If you learned some great truth...though I doubt you'd be completeley fixed up, would be on better ground than you started on.

I don't remember that being a prerequisite. The only thing that seems to be required is libido.

This Asuka looks a lot like the Asuka we all saw who lying naked in a bath tub in a destroyed house after a failed sucide attempt.

I thought you realized wanting to die is made of fail. And I never saw any huge similarities anyways.

But Shinji already has grown up by the mere fact that he chose to live life as it is, no matter how harsh, over a fake but happy reality.

Then he tried to kill someone for no good reason, but that's for another thread...

[Themaninblack]

But thats my point...it is apparently pretty fucking hard in order to materialize in a human body agian after 3I. If you learned some great truth...though I doubt you'd be completeley fixed up, would be on better ground than you started on.

I don't remember that being a prerequisite. The only thing that seems to be required is libido.

This Asuka looks a lot like the Asuka we all saw who lying naked in a bath tub in a destroyed house after a failed sucide attempt.

I thought you realized wanting to die is made of fail. And I never saw any huge similarities anyways.

You don't.... She has the same look in her eyes when she's being strangled and when she's in the tub.

[Sailor Star Dust]

Although BOTH Shinji and Asuka need a hell of a lot of inner work on both their parts, that fact that their alive at least means they have that chance.

With the stuff mentioned below, I think I stated it best in this post (as well as another one I can't find ATM), but still:

Semisubtle and AEF, the problem is Shinji had gone nuts from isolation, and tried to kill Asuka simply because he had gone nuts, or possible because of the fact Asuka hadn't returned right away. Either way, at least the very least, Shinji stopped strangling her once she caressed him, and Asuka caressed Shinji to begin with despite her cold words and glare.

I really think that the fact those types of reactions are included shows that there IS still a chance for them to become happy with themselves and each other. There is STILL hope for them to change for the better and become better people!

And AEF, you stated yourself in a thread that Asuka finds Shinji pathetic (with his crying and other "weak" reactions), right? So doesn't it make sense in a way, that she'd have that type of reaction after doing something atypical for her?

If Asuka "didn't learn anything at all", why did she caress his cheek to begin with? Why didn't she act in a typical way instead, such as hitting him or yelling?

@ Eva Yojimbo: I agree completely that Asuka caressing Shinji with her bandaged arm is signifcant, I'm just not sure how, lol. ^^;

btw, how is Asuka clinging onto her an Eva Pilot if she returned in the exact same clothes she was wearing when Tanged? Same with Shinji, he reappeared in his school clothes beause that's what he was wearing at the time.

[Sachi]

btw, how is Asuka clinging onto her an Eva Pilot if she returned in the exact same clothes she was wearing when Tanged? Same with Shinji, he reappeared in his school clothes beause that's what he was wearing at the time.

thats what i thought, but i didnt post it cause i didnt want to get yelled at for forgetting the bandages

[Anonymous_Evafan]

You don't.... She has the same look in her eyes when she's being strangled and when she's in the tub.

I don't see it. Perhaps it's my lack of negativity, and view of destrudo. In any case, you've conceeded destrudo can't bring her back so we need to find an explaination that involves wanting to live.

Semisubtle and AEF, the problem is Shinji had gone nuts from isolation

I can't give him a free pass on that. Have to fair accross the board and all...

And AEF, you stated yourself in a thread that Asuka finds Shinji pathetic (with his crying), right? So doesn't it make sense in a way, that she'd have that type of reaction after doing something atypical for her?

Doesn't really signify growth on her part now does it?

btw, how is Asuka clinging onto her an Eva Pilot if she returned in the exact same clothes she was wearing when Tanged?

EVA-02 was in the geofront which was destroyed. She didn't reembody where she died.

[Sachi]

You don't.... She has the same look in her eyes when she's being strangled and when she's in the tub.

I don't see it. Perhaps it's my lack of negativity, and view of destrudo. In any case, you've conceeded destrudo can't bring her back so we need to find an explaination that involves wanting to live.

no, she has wide open eyes in EoE
in the bathtub she has lethargic depressed eyes

[Anonymous_Evafan]

no, she has wide open eyes in EoE

Technically it would be eye since one is covered. In addition, shitty camrea angles are shittyyyy!

[Sachi]

no, she has wide open eyes in EoE

Technically it would be eye since one is covered. In addition, shitty camrea angles are shittyyyy!

Whatever

[Semisubtle]

Semisubtle and AEF, the problem is Shinji had gone nuts from isolation, and tried to kill Asuka simply because he had gone nuts, or possible because of the fact Asuka hadn't returned right away. Either way, at least the very least, Shinji stopped strangling her once she caressed him, and Asuka caressed Shinji to begin with despite her cold words and glare.

I really think that the fact those types of reactions are included shows that there IS still a chance for them to become happy with themselves and each other. There is STILL hope for them to change for the better and become better people!

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If Asuka "didn't learn anything at all", why did she caress his cheek to begin with? Why didn't she act in a typical way instead, such as hitting him or yelling?

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btw, how is Asuka clinging onto her an Eva Pilot if she returned in the exact same clothes she was wearing when Tanged? Same with Shinji, he reappeared in his school clothes beause that's what he was wearing at the time.

Okay. First, I don’t agree Shinji has gone crazy due to isolation. We have no way of knowing how long it took Asuka to show up, anyway. My explanation for the strangling would be that Shinji assumes Asuka will have returned just as hurtful to him as she had been before. HOWEVER, as you said, he stops once she caresses his cheek. In other words, he stops because he realizes that she has changed. I definitely agree that there is hope for them in some way.

I would not call Asuka’s expression or words “cold,” though. They appeared more numb to me, just as Shinji appears when he first sits up and sees (or seems to see) Rei off in the distance. Her first reaction appears to be ‘wtf,’ and her words, be them translated as “how disgusting,” “I feel sick,” or whatever you want, are most likely directed at the situation as a whole rather than Shinji’s actions. I mean, really, considering what happened to them, her words aren’t all that surprising.

I do believe she is dressed in her plugsuit because that’s the way she was when she died. Though, I do have to ask, as I haven’t seen 26’ in years, whether Asuka was shown reverting to LCL. I don’t remember that, and I just assumed she was killed in that MP Eva feeding frenzy.

[Anonymous_Evafan]

Okay. First, I don’t agree Shinji has gone crazy due to isolation. We have no way of knowing how long it took Asuka to show up, anyway.

Read!

[Semisubtle]

Ah. I see. That's actually interesting for consideration, and I'm glad you pointed it out. Still, I don't think the passage of time would affect Shinji's reaction to Asuka's appearance. There would be no reason for him to assume she'd choose to come back, you know?

[Sachi]

i think after a few hours of isolation would send him to believe that he wasnt alive anymore.
but the rusty cross does change the equation quite a bit