Star Wars

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Postby Gendo'sPapa » Tue Jun 20, 2017 7:19 pm

Oof. That HAN SOLO movie is gonna be soooo bad*. Even the Kings of Bad Movie Ideas can't save it. Plus they were axed after more then four months of shooting with only two or three left. Everyone on that movie is about to get a healthy paycheck as the schedule for that film goes over & over & OVER.

*In the end it will probably end up being incredibly bland.

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Postby Guy Nacks » Tue Jun 20, 2017 8:37 pm

I know we'll probably never know what actually happened, but godfuckingdammit, what the fuck must have happened for them to bounce after the bulk of filming has already been completed?

I mean, there must have been a set script in place, which they must have read and agreed to film before becoming involved with the project, so what the hell?

One wonders, given the amount of work they've already done if they'll retain any sort of screen credit.
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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Tue Jun 20, 2017 8:53 pm

I'm picturing a Brave-styled, two separate director title cards. We'll see a "Directed by: Phil Lord and Christopher Miller" title card, with another separate title card reading "Directed by: Alan Smithee."
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Postby Guy Nacks » Tue Jun 20, 2017 9:45 pm

VARIETY UPDATE

A person with knowledge of the production said that the chemistry between the directors and [Kathleen] Kennedy was never right.
“It was a culture clash from day one,” the source said. “She didn’t even like the way they folded their socks.”

The source said that while Lord and Miller were supposedly hired for their vision and distinctive brand of filmmaking when it came to the “Star Wars” production, Kennedy did not approve of their shooting style and process of interacting with actors and crew. “They weren’t given the leeway to do what they had to do,” the source said.

The duo also clashed with Kasdan, who has been an integral creative part of several “Star Wars” movies, dating back the the 1980 “The Empire Strikes Back.” Like Kennedy, he questioned many of the pair’s directing choices.

“Kathy, her team and Larry Kasdan have been doing it their way for a very long time. They know how the cheese is made and that’s how they want it made,” said the source. “It became a very polarizing set.”

Kennedy promised a new director would be announced shortly. It is unclear if and how Lord and Miller will be credited on the movie. Hollywood insiders said their forced departure in the middle of filming was a highly unusual situation.

The directors did not leave the production voluntarily, but were fired by LucasFilm. The decision comes as the Han Solo film still has several weeks left to shoot, according to another individual with knowledge of the production. An additional several weeks of reshoots have been planned to take place later this summer.

Kennedy had her own ideas about how the film should be shot. In an interview with Variety last year, she said she wanted the film to have “…a heist or Western type feel,” adding, “We’ve talked about [Frederic] Remington and those primary colors that are used in his paintings defining the look and feel of the film.”


If Kennedy wants to tightly control the production to such an extent, then why doesn't she just direct the damn film herself?
Among the people who use the Internet, many are obtuse. Because they are locked in their rooms, they hang on to that vision which is spreading across the world. But this does not go beyond mere ‘data’. Data without analysis [thinking], which makes you think that you know everything. This complacency is nothing but a trap. Moreover, the sense of values that counters this notion is paralyzed by it.

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Postby Reichu » Tue Jun 20, 2017 10:12 pm

Ms. Kennedy needs to sit her ass down and watch the Alien 3 "Wreckage and Rage" documentary. Those who do not learn from history's mistakes...
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Postby Sachi » Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:52 am

Meh, I had no expectations for this film to begin with, so this doesn't phase me. So long as the story adds to the lore, I'll probably end up eating it up regardless. A mediocre or even bad Star Wars film is still a Star Wars film, and even Attack of the Clones has it's charms for me (being my least favorite of the bunch).
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Postby Ray » Wed Jun 21, 2017 3:00 am

Remember the agony people felt when they butchered Darth Vader's backstory in the prequels? Turning what could have been a compelling Fall From Grace story into a joke?

Do you really want something like that to happen for Hans Solo easily the most iconic Star Wars character outside of Leia Luke and maybe Artoo?
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Postby Sachi » Wed Jun 21, 2017 3:07 am

The prequels may be poorly executed, but there's plenty good with them, and I enjoy Anakin as a character, especially in the Clone Wars animated series. They add plenty to the lore of the franchise.

Besides, I don't see what the big deal here is. The story is pretty much set in stone. The difference of opinion is tone, apparently. Whatever. Maybe the original directors were in the wrong, and maybe they'll get someone qualified. Who knows. Freaking out now is not productive.
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Postby Reichu » Wed Jun 21, 2017 3:37 am

Any freaking out should have been done when Di$n€¥ outlined their plans to bomb the Earth with SW films until it ceases to be sufficiently profitable. Even then, it's just cynical capitalist assholes being more of same. Nothing even remotely new. May as well get a fainting couch and never stray far from your Victorian parlor if you're going to overreact to every perceived affront the IP holders unleash upon your sacred idols.

Ray, someone once told me to let it all slide off my back like water off a duck. Find your preening gland and get to work learning how to waterproof yourself. The water isn't going anywhere, but you have some say over how much it affects you.
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Postby silvermoonlight » Wed Jun 21, 2017 4:09 am

View Original PostGendo'sPapa wrote:Oof. That HAN SOLO movie is gonna be soooo bad*. Even the Kings of Bad Movie Ideas can't save it. Plus they were axed after more then four months of shooting with only two or three left. Everyone on that movie is about to get a healthy paycheck as the schedule for that film goes over & over & OVER.

*In the end it will probably end up being incredibly bland.


Sadly I have to agree with that as they once again they picked the game of throne actress Clarke who was also in Terminator and who in my view is just not ready for this kind of role. Also I can just picture Solo being an massively arrogant, sexist mean spirited character kind of like Chris Prat's character was in Jurassic world and this would just make this a film I just don't want to watch because its not how I ever want to see Han Solo portrayed as a character. Granted I could be wrong about this and I would like to be as I did like rouge one on another note them firing the director today is also not a good sigh.
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Postby Ray » Wed Jun 21, 2017 4:47 am

View Original PostReichu wrote:
Ray, someone once told me to let it all slide off my back like water off a duck. Find your preening gland and get to work learning how to waterproof yourself. The water isn't going anywhere, but you have some say over how much it affects you.


I was (mostly) joking with the comment to Sachi. At this point? I'm just glad Star Wars is getting a post prequel post George Lucas life at all.
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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Wed Jun 21, 2017 5:47 am

View Original PostSachi wrote:Besides, I don't see what the big deal here is. The story is pretty much set in stone. The difference of opinion is tone, apparently. Whatever. Maybe the original directors were in the wrong, and maybe they'll get someone qualified. Who knows. Freaking out now is not productive.

Tone and narrative technique is literally the only thing separating the TV Tropes page of The Lord of the Rings from J.R.R. Tolkien's actual LotR books. If tone wasn't as important as "content," then people should feel about as fulfilled reading the TV Tropes page as they do the books themselves.

Sure, the broad strokes of the story is probably already set in stone in SW, and any filmmaker working with Disney on the franchise is already going to be more limited than he has before on other work. But often times how a story is told can make or break whether or not that story is worth watching. No small thing is at stake here by replacing the directors of Han Solo. The only reason why I'm not freaking out about the directorial change is because I already didn't care much for Disney's Star Wars movies; which is probably the saddest thing anyone could say about this movie franchise. Brad Bird did right by turning down the chance to work on this franchise. If your work on the series is going to be regulated to only tone, and then only to mimic someone else's idea of tone, why bother showing up for work in the first place? The movie will be made the same way regardless. Brad Bird simply agreed with Disney to not show up for work before they also decided not to sign a contract together.
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Postby FrDougal9000 » Wed Jun 21, 2017 5:52 am

You know what would make a cool Star Wars spin-off? An anthology film.

I was thinking about The Animatrix, and I couldn't help but wonder what it would be like if Disney got 7-8 unique directors to make shorts based around a general theme like "it's about Star Wars", and then let them do whatever they want. Even if the end result was of inconsistent quality (like The Animatrix), at least you'd have a good few shorts interpreting Star Wars in ways that the movies would likely never touch for fear of 'tainting the brand' or other such nonsense that results in the new movies feeling so safe and uninteresting.

(Personally speaking, if I were in charge of finding directors for the anthology project, I'd go for these guys:)

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-Edgar Wright (Shaun of the Dead, Hot Fuzz, The World's End)
-Jean-Luc Goddard (Breathless, King Lear, Goodbye to Language)
-Hiroyuki Imaishi (Gurren Lagann, Panty & Stocking with Garterbelt, Dead Leaves)
-Terry Gilliam (Brazil, Jabberwocky, Time Bandits)
-David Fincher (Alien 3, Fight Club, House of Cards US)
-George Miller (Mad Max: Fury Road, Babe: Pig in the City, The Road Warrior)
-Hideaki Anno (I wonder why, on this website of all places...)
-Tadashi Hiramatsu (until You come to me, Ibuseki Yoruni/On A Gloomy Night)
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Postby Guy Nacks » Wed Jun 21, 2017 6:48 am

None of those directors would realistically be given full creative freedom. In fact, Edgar Wright left early into filming on Ant Man (which is a property Disney also oversees) for that very reason. They're corporate projects, not director-driven affairs.

In other words, they want a yes-man Richard Marquand-type director, not an individualistic and driven filmmaker like Irvin Kershner.
Among the people who use the Internet, many are obtuse. Because they are locked in their rooms, they hang on to that vision which is spreading across the world. But this does not go beyond mere ‘data’. Data without analysis [thinking], which makes you think that you know everything. This complacency is nothing but a trap. Moreover, the sense of values that counters this notion is paralyzed by it.

And so we arrive at demagogy. - Hideaki Anno, 1996

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Postby Gendo'sPapa » Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:04 am

^ Ant-Man is probably the perfect film to bring up as a comparison. Both Marvel & Star Wars are product producing juggernauts that market themselves as "visionary friendly studios" but ultimately are driven entirely by the producers. Kevin Feige & Kathleen Kennedy are both the true creators of the films in those respective universes. With that film Edgar Wright put together the script - which originally was 100% a classic heist film with a guy with shrinking powers - he put together the great cast + crew & then unceremoniously left the film when it became clear Kevin Feige was going to make him change the movie during production into being a film more akin to the Marvel mold. So Marvel quickly hired Peyton Reed, they did a quick rewrite of the script to make it feel "more Marvel", kept some of the Edgar Wright ideas for flavor (you can like Ant-Man but the version that hit theaters is not a heist movie) & using the cast & production ideas he had put together released a bland but perfectly serviceable blockbuster that pleased most people. It doesn't have much of a soul & really is is just two passable hours at the theaters but it doesn't challenge anyone, doesn't offend the source material & plays it safe. 81% on Rottentomatoes, $520 worldwide theatrical gross. As long as a Marvel movie doesn't offend it will be a hit.

The curious thing here is they waited until over four months of shooting to make the director change. Based on accounts Han Solo either started shooting in January or February of this year. Whoever they bring on to take over the film is going to have the job of smoothing out the parts LucasFilm didn't like and deliver the rest of the product. I feel the Han Solo movie is going to be bad BUT I also felt Rogue One was pretty awful & that was another film with heavy production woes. I'm sure the Han Solo movie that hits theaters will have Alden Ehrenreich, Donald Glover, Woody Harrelson & the rest of the cast firing off uninspired material with absolute charisma, the movie will be in focus, look pretty, won't offend fans of Star Wars, change the status quo or ultimately do anything all that inspiring. It will have a Rottentomatoes score north of 85%, an IMDB rating above 8.4 & will make $1.2 billion worldwide.

At the moment I'm just waiting for them to make the final announcement that Han Solo is moving from it's May 25, 2018 release date to one in late December. Releasing a Star Wars movie over Christmas has been gold for LucasFilm & Disney because most everyone is off for two weeks, Star Wars is a perfect family franchise & there's nothing that really challenges them for box office attention for at least 6 to 7 weeks. It lets them really pick up at the box theaters for an extended period of time. If they release Han Solo next May they're looking at facing off against Deadpool 2 one week after being released with Ocean's Eight, The Incredibles 2 & Jurassic Park 5 shortly after. If they push the film to December 2018 (which I'm willing to bet money will totally happen) their only competition will be Aquaman & Mary Poppins' Returns. Episode VIII abandoned the 40th anniversary of the original Star Wars for a more juicy December release, I see no reason why Han Solo is going to stick around to be released on the 41st anniversary

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Postby movieartman » Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:56 am

Ron Howard is being courted for replacement. Makes sense with Kennedy wanting a western vibe, Howard's The Missing was a solid film.

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Postby Chuckman » Wed Jun 21, 2017 10:53 am

Why is making a movie most people will enjoy such a bad thing?

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:13 pm

^ No one said that marketability was such a bad thing. Heck, the original Han Solo directors helmed The Lego Movie. There's no doubt that their Han Solo movie would have been an enjoyable flick for mass audiences as well.

The criticisms here involve Disney constantly being unaware of the visions of the directors they hire. This shouldn't even be a thing that happens this often since this is a movie business, and producers supposedly watch at least some the filmography of the directors they hire. I mean, three extensive, narrative-altering reshoots from the same studio within the span of three years. It's almost as though they've forgotten how to recruit filmmakers.

Something's amis here...

Like, I wonder if the better known name directors are just there to generate positive buzz, and the studios don't care about the rest. This is happening way too consistently to just be standard missteps in an established film studio assembling a crew.
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Postby Chuckman » Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:31 pm

Auteur theory doesn't belong in these movies. They're just like the Star Wars novels, or series genre fiction generally.

It doesn't matter if you're Ernest Hemingway. If you can't write a novel to the brief, you don't fit the job. Same thing for these movies. They have to balance finding a creative director whose style flows with the franchise and who can compromise and work with them.

So far as movies go only Marvel really does that well. The DCCU people haven't been interventionist enough and it sounds like the Star Wars team, at present, lacks focus. I don't think they should have let either Force Awakens or Rogue One out into the wild as they were. One is a stale rehash and feels like JJTrek and the other, while a good movie on its own, is very debatable as to its merits as a Star Wars movie.

Personally I think all these interquels are a mistake, but I'm just screaming into the void.

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Postby cyharding » Wed Jun 21, 2017 10:22 pm

View Original PostGendo'sPapa wrote:At the moment I'm just waiting for them to make the final announcement that Han Solo is moving from it's May 25, 2018 release date to one in late December. Releasing a Star Wars movie over Christmas has been gold for LucasFilm & Disney because most everyone is off for two weeks, Star Wars is a perfect family franchise & there's nothing that really challenges them for box office attention for at least 6 to 7 weeks. It lets them really pick up at the box theaters for an extended period of time. If they release Han Solo next May they're looking at facing off against Deadpool 2 one week after being released with Ocean's Eight, The Incredibles 2 & Jurassic Park 5 shortly after. If they push the film to December 2018 (which I'm willing to bet money will totally happen) their only competition will be Aquaman & Mary Poppins' Returns. Episode VIII abandoned the 40th anniversary of the original Star Wars for a more juicy December release, I see no reason why Han Solo is going to stick around to be released on the 41st anniversary


Which is a damn shame as it means that I could never see a Star Wars movie in the theaters during a time when it's really easy for me to go. I know that I've already complained about this in the thread before, but it does tick me off so.


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