[MANGA] [NGE] Manga's couple: Rei and Shinji?

[Ja Ayanami]

Shinji said the action of wringing out the cloth reminded him of a mother. The face that it was Rei is just coincidence. Yui and Rei repeating the same thing is also has nothing to do with whether or not Shinji thinks of her as a mother. That is probably just an audio cue put in by Anno to hint at her origins.

[Ornette]

Yui and Rei repeating the same thing is also has nothing to do with whether or not Shinji thinks of her as a mother. That is probably just an audio cue put in by Anno to hint at her origins.

That's true, but single incidents rarely portray a single message. I just pointed out the more obvious references of mother in the series. SSD posted the source from the Death and Rebirth theatrical program that said Rei=mother. I don't necessarily think that Shinji thinks of Rei as a mother (being of same physical age aside), but the relationship, as far as the viewer's point of view (i.e. me) seems like one of "mother/son".

[Darknemo2000]

Yes, the source is more or less original so you can't argueė about whole Rei being associated with mother in Shinji's mind. Yet it is not telling that he thinks she IS a mother in true sense of this word. By all means - no. yet His relationship touches the root of the one that mother child might have.

It is something that Misato failed. She is a "family" yet not really a mother figure.

Asuka is most clearly his sexual interest though - not Rei nor Misato is clearly expressed as Asuka is. Which in itself makes the romantic situation much more likely between A/S than R/S or M/S. Not saying that they are in love in anime, yet in NGE terms they are one of the closest "couples" that you can see in. Much more likely than Rei/Shinji, which in anime never had an romantic undertone to it, in my opinion.

Now, manga is eneterely different matter considering that Shinji barely has any significant relationship with Asuka or Misato it makes Rei as the only one in center of his attention which can be treated as romantic one. But its not anime. Its more like Sadamoto's wishful fantasies really.

[Ja Ayanami]

I can agree with that. I do realize that after about episode 5 the S/R thing was doomed. The intoduction of Asuka saw to that. I am just saying that there is a possibility of it. It's all speculation really unless you are Anno and come down with a decree on something. I will ask a simple question before I point out an opinion of my own. Who thinks of Rei as Shinji's mother, or in better terms, closely related to Shinji. I mean in the sense that, had there been a relationship, it would have been incestuous.

[Ornette]

Who thinks of Rei as Shinji's mother, or in better terms, closely related to Shinji. I mean in the sense that, had there been a relationship, it would have been incestuous.

That's assuming that Rei is 100% a clone of Yui, but let's not forget that Rei has Lilith's soul. I don't think that you could exactly call it incest in the traditional sense. It's still kinda weird though, IMO.

[Ja Ayanami]

Oh I am well aware of the Lillith aspect of Rei's origin. That is what leads me to not think of her as a clone. My understanding of a clone is an EXACT genetic replica of another being. Rei does not fit this definition. In my understanding she is more closely defined as a Homunculus i.e. an artificial human created from the blood or organic matter of another being. Since Rei is made from both Yui and Lillith and is an artificial human I think this definition is more appropriate.

[Sailor Star Dust]

I don't necessarily think that Shinji thinks of Rei as a mother (being of same physical age aside), but the relationship, as far as the viewer's point of view (i.e. me) seems like one of "mother/son".

At first I saw them as having a "mother/son" relationship from the viewer's POV, but lately I get the sense of them having more of a "little sister/older brother" relationship. (Since Rei is artificially aged to be 14 years old like the others.)

Since Rei is made from both Yui and Lilith and is an artificial human I think this definition is more appropriate.

Rei isn't an artificial human though. Even though her body is Yui's from the failed salvage attempt, the DNA between humans and Angels is 98% (I can't remember the exact number) identical. In other words, just because she has Lilith's soul doesn't mean she's any else human then the others. Also, her having Lilith's soul pretty much makes her Lilith. Same with Kaworu having Adam's soul.

[Shiro]

We don't know the nature of Rei's feelings for Shinji. Shinji was the first person to approach Rei as a person, not as an echo of a person. Everyone from the Gehirn era knew Yui, so they'd be predisposed in how they act towards Rei, even if they don't know her origins. Misato didn't exactly try to get close to Rei, and she knew something was up with her, just not what yet. Asuka hated her guts. Shinji, however, did exactly the same as Gendo did, saving her in EP6, but this time, Shinji barely knew her. So, I'd THINK that'd affect you in a way, but you don't necessarily fall in love with your rescuer. She begins to look to him as someone else who's there for her, and slowly realizes that Gendo isn't, so she begins to rely on Shinji instead of Gendo. Shinji showed her compassion for no reason. Gendo showed her compassion because she was Yui's echo, and a necessity to his plans.

[Darknemo2000]

I do understand your statement about if there were Rei/Shinji it could look incest and that could have been one of the points why it was never developed...

But consider that Anno did let in scene where Shinji masturbates over Asuka in coma, a scene that you have to agree not all anime directors would have agreed upon. Or other scenes like that, so I don't think that this could have been the reason why Rei/Shinji was never explored.

Its a Japan after all. You can see animes where blood related brother and sister have sex with each other, and theres no such big deal as it is in western world. More so that Shinji/Rei are not brother/sister or mother/son in direct sense of the word. True it is rather...complicated in that sense but I dont think it was the reason why it never was explored.

I think that simply it was never planned as an romantic couple to begin with, while Asuka proved to be in the focus of Shinji's sexual attention. More so her relationship with Shinji was really very complex and added some other plot-line that fitted well with complex plot of NGE, much better if Rei/Shinji would have been explored in a romantical/sexual light.

SAadamoto's manga to this point is much more into Rei/Shinji but its not based on the fact that Sadamoto had courage..Its based on the fact that he is a Rei-fanboy and is not capable to follow his own manmga plot (to the point that Shinji's line's that Rei is a distant part of him and not really a romantic interest, gets practically deleted with amount of R/S scenes with rather obvious romantic undertone to it). More so, the fact that Sadamoto dumbed down characters like Misato or Asuka, and changed their relationship to rather simple one, and that he recreated Shinji from an original character to rather unoriginal more or less typical teenager hero works against him.

Just like against him works his rather abrubt following of his own manga and sometimes bit too forced joints with anime. It puts him to the point where his manga simply cannot be treated as seriously as anime. But again thats - different story.

Most importantly, though, Rei/Shinji in anime was not abandoned (in my opinion) due to inclinations of incest, but rather more due to an attractiveness of Asuka/Shinji as it potentially could (and was) more screwed up than Rei/Shinji could ever be, thus suiting Anno's plans better.

[Ja Ayanami]

Rei isn't an artificial human though. Even though her body is Yui's from the failed salvage attempt, the DNA between humans and Angels is 98% (I can't remember the exact number) identical. In other words, just because she has Lilith's soul doesn't mean she's any else human then the others. Also, her having Lilith's soul pretty much makes her Lilith. Same with Kaworu having Adam's soul.

Why isn't Rei artificial? Her bodies drop out of the torso of an angel. She wasn't born. She was artificially created. If you are claiming that she is Lillith then she is definitely not human or a clone. The angels are similar to humans but they are not exactly the same. They are still indeed two different species.

[Sailor Star Dust]

Shinji, we humans were born from a being called Lilith, who is a source of life just like Adam. We are the 18th Angel. (flashed image: DNA) The other Angels are possibilities of what we might have become - humans that gave up human form. (flashed image: Kaworu -Rei) Sadly, we had to reject each other - even though we're all human... Listen, Shinji... You must destroy all of the Eva series. It's the only way to stay alive.

Humans and Angels ARE both human. Thus, Rei is human even though the means of are creating her were artifical (She even has a human body: Yui's).


Anyway, I think that with the anime, it was simply planned to make it into a series that things happen as you don't expect: For instance, although there are could be an implication that Shinji and Rei would become the "series couple" in Episodes 05 and 06, the arrival of Asuka in Episode 08 turns the fans expectations upside down (Also, even the Opening seems to hint it'll be A/S "You stare only at me and smile." *cue Shinji looking at Asuka, not Rei*)... With the Manga, Sadamoto is simply doing things the way he wants. I personally think he's letting his Rei Fanboy personality get in the way of his telling a good story, but it's HIS baby, not Anno's, so he's gonna do whatever he likes, I guess.

[Ja Ayanami]

Just based on the statement you quoted there you are proving that humans and angels are not the same thing. It fits exactly into evolution. Yes we may have had a common ancestor, but through time we changed into something different. Yes we are closely related but we are not the same. Humans may be the 18tg angel but the angels are not human. A square is a rectangle but a rectangle is not a square.

[BrikHaus]

Ja Ayanami may become my new hero.

[Anonymous_Evafan]

Just based on the statement you quoted there you are proving that humans and angels are not the same thing. It fits exactly into evolution. Yes we may have had a common ancestor, but through time we changed into something different. Yes we are closely related but we are not the same. Humans may be the 18tg angel but the angels are not human. A square is a rectangle but a rectangle is not a square.

Not quite. They're both sub-species of humans. The Angels aren't Lilim but their human credentials are solid. Anno even saw fit to give our species it's own special little nickname due to this fact.

@SSD, Rei is an artifical human just like Kaworu and the Evas are.

Random triva, Lilith is the same species as us, go figure.

[Ja Ayanami]

If we are to believe that humans are the species and that angels and uh... humans are a subspecies of humans. Should we also consider the idea that humans can mate with Angels and produce offspring. (visions of a ten story Zureal with long red hair comes to mind) *shudders* Ew...

[Shiro]

Angels are to humans as wolves are to coyotes. Very similar in near everything, but still dissimilar enough that they aren't the same species. The relationship is expanded, but it's the same idea.

[Anonymous_Evafan]

Should we also consider the idea that humans can mate with Angels and produce offspring.

1 word, Kaworu.

BTW scientists now say Neanderthals were a sub-species of human, LOL.
LOL typo

[BrikHaus]

After having read the last few posts, I'm thinking that our catgirl population is becoming dangerously small. Let's make sure they don't go extinct, ok?

[Ja Ayanami]

Should we also consider the idea that humans can mate with Angels and produce offspring.

1 word, Kaworu.

BTW scientists now say Neandertals were a sub-species of human, LOL.

I didn't think Kaworu had that kind of origin. I just assumed the made him like they did Rei. Used some poor bastards DNA to create a vessel, then put a soul (in his case Adam's) into the body.
While we are on the subject of cross species reproduction however I would like to put a theory out there. First a biology lesson. When two closely related species mate they can have offspring but they are not able to reproduce themselves. Case in point Horse+Donkey=Mule. Now that that is out of the way. Since Rei is made from both human and Angel DNA can we attribute her inability to have offspring to this. Or we can always go with the commonly used theory that Gendo had her sex organs removed for the purpose of having an S2 organ.

[Shiro]

Some species are very close, but still unable to breed. Case in point: Chimps and humans. DNA differs by what, 2%? But we still can't breed.