First Ancestral Race

[BobBQ]

He replied, "Yes, but what was in Marcellus Wallace's briefcase?"

"A MacGuffin."

"What's a MacGuffin?"

"An apparatus for trapping lions on the Scottish highlands."

"But there aren't any lions on the Scottish highlands!"

"Then it's not a MacGuffin, is it?"

[MaggotMaster]

When the FUCK was that said in the show.

Yeah, well, when the FUCK was it said Rei is a Yui clone? when the FUCK was it said that Rei I is inside Eva 00? when the FUCK was it said that _______


Calm the FUCK down, does the series have to FUCKing spell everything in nice little colored letters for you?


The FAR are implied, White Moon and Black Moon are alluded to being artificial, IT DOESN'T MATTER IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE FAR'S EXISTANCE, THEY ARE CANON NONETHELESS.

[Shin-seiki]

You know, zephyr72, leaving aside all the hints that are dropped in the series itself, not to mention the fact that the CI entirely confirms the validity of the concept, once it was pointed out that the Series Proposal (written by Anno himself, ferchristsakes) explicitly mentions the FAR, most people in your situation would realize that you no longer have a leg to stand on in this argument.

When the FUCK was that said in the show.

That's not a very meaningful question, insofar as many of the most crucial plot points in NGE are never spelled out in so many words. No one ever says that Rei's soul is actually that of Lilith, but that doesn't mean it isn't so.
The answers to most of the so-called mysteries of Evangelion are there to be found, you just need to get over the idea that those answers are going to be spoon-fed to you.

[AchtungAffen]

I'm not very fond of the mandorla idea, considering it was based on that blurry image which could have been a mandorla the same it could have been a pic of the prelates cheering when rejecting condom use during 2nd Vatican Council.

But, Angels being on the White Moon in embrionic or egg states and the Katsuragi team never did anything with em until 2I?

[Reichu]

I'm not very fond of the mandorla idea, considering it was based on that blurry image

I'm talking about the thing that Sandalphon was found in.*

But, Angels being on the White Moon in embrionic or egg states and the Katsuragi team never did anything with em until 2I?

If you have a better explanation, projectile vomit now.

* With regard to the blurry image, IMO one of the two objects depicted is Kaworu's similarly-shaped eggy-weggy.

[AchtungAffen]

I really don't have a definite answer. But considering the Katsuragi team was on the White Moon, and considering Seele knew about the Angels coming sooner or later, I find it hard to believe they wouldn't have pre-empted them Angels before they developed (if they were eggs inside the moon).

I could say them Angels were born before 2I (as Misato says in #25'... before the other Angels awoke, they pre-existed 2I), and I suspect they were outside the moon from a while back before 2I. Where? Dirac Sea? That I don't know.

[Reichu]

They couldn't have been doing anything outside of the Moon, considering they didn't have any souls until 2I -- Adam opened her Doors that day, hence why her children "awakened" and began to develop.

There's no evidence that the Dirac Sea is a substantive part of any Apostles' reality save for Leliel's.

[BobBQ]

There's no evidence that the Dirac Sea is a substantive part of any Apostles' reality save for Leliel's.

Though it seems to me that the fact Unit 04 called one up using Shamshel's S2 engine indicates that Leliel wasn't the only Angel with the ability to do so...

[Reichu]

Though it seems to me that the fact Unit 04 called one up using Shamshel's S2 engine indicates that Leliel wasn't the only Angel with the ability to do so...

The S2 Engines seem to get their juice from the Dirac Sea -- however exactly that works -- so there's that level of connection.

[AchtungAffen]

They couldn't have been doing anything outside of the Moon, considering they didn't have any souls until 2I -- Adam opened her Doors that day, hence why her children "awakened" and began to develop.

I bet you mean the line about Gauf Room in #21'. I wouldn't be so sure about it being the place where all the Angels souls originate, as in the mythological sense, as it would mean in the Lilith case that post 2I humanity hasn't got a soul.

[Reichu]

I bet you mean the line about Gauf Room in #21'.

"When the Doors of Guf open, blah blah blah."

I wouldn't be so sure about it being the place where all the Angels souls originate, as in the mythological sense, as it would mean in the Lilith case that post 2I humanity hasn't got a soul.

Not necessarily. Take each Guf as it comes -- we're dealing with Adam's here, not Lilith's. Adam releasing souls to her children explains both the Doors line and the Apostles' subsequent development (and lack of action beforehand).

In any case, this thread is about the FAR, so let's talk about the FAR.

[Anonymous_Evafan]

I really don't have a definite answer. But considering the Katsuragi team was on the White Moon, and considering Seele knew about the Angels coming sooner or later, I find it hard to believe they wouldn't have pre-empted them Angels before they developed (if they were eggs inside the moon).

I could say them Angels were born before 2I (as Misato says in #25'... before the other Angels awoke, they pre-existed 2I), and I suspect they were outside the moon from a while back before 2I. Where? Dirac Sea? That I don't know.

You know they had to dig Adam up. If the other Angels were say buried under trillions of tons of ice and the Katsuragi team wasn't getting any energy readings from them why bother? They already had Adam for there S^2 experiments, months or years of extra digging was pointless.

[Reichu]

You know they had to dig Adam up. If the other Angels were say buried under trillions of tons of ice and the Katsuragi team wasn't getting any energy reading from them why bother? They already had Adam for there S^2 experiments months or years of extra digging was pointless.

You'd think science would do anything to get its meat-hooks on fourteen yummy samples like that. But aside from in the White Moon somewhere, there's no other place the unborn Apostles could have feasibly been. So either Katsuragi-tachi found them, and we didn't hear about it for whatever reason, or they -- like you suggest above -- simply didn't.

[Anonymous_Evafan]

Dr. Katsuragi was too caught up in his super super solenoid theory to care. Hell it was more imporntant to him than his family. No energy readings no reason to think they carry that special organ he had a hard-on for.

Wouldn't talking about Adam and Lilith technically be talking about the FAR?

[MaggotMaster]

What if the Angels were in Antarctica but not in the White Moon? it would explain why Katsuragi and Co. couldn't find them.

[Reichu]

What if the Angels were in Antarctica but not in the White Moon? it would explain why Katsuragi and Co. couldn't find them.

Why would a bunch of embryos in eggs NOT be in their Mama's Moon? They didn't have souls yet; Adam evidently wasn't finished with them, but got interrupted in the middle of her Seed duties by mysterious pointy things.

[MaggotMaster]

Why would a bunch of embryos in eggs NOT be in their Mama's Moon? They didn't have souls yet; Adam evidently wasn't finished with them, but got interrupted in the middle of her Seed duties by mysterious pointy things.

Because I'm sure that Katsuragi would have found them, especially if the eggs are as big as Sandalphon's, also, if Sandalphon was in the White Moon the day of 2I, how would it get into that Volcano 15 years later while STILL BEING INSIDE THE SAME EGG?

Oh yeah, also, since SEELE retrieved Adam sometime after 2I, wouldn't they have perhaps came accross said eggs? This is assuming SEELE got Adam before the series starts.

[Anonymous_Evafan]

BIG BOOM fling mandorlas over planet, 1 land in valcano, 2 end up in space. Gods don't die from such things.

[AchtungAffen]

Not necessarily. Take each Guf as it comes -- we're dealing with Adam's here, not Lilith's. Adam releasing souls to her children explains both the Doors line and the Apostles' subsequent development (and lack of action beforehand).

Or it could mean something more like Gauf in #23, where the room of gauf holds the soul of a single entity, the place where that soul came from. In #23 it's Lilith, when the Rei clone got a soul, the chamber of Gauf got empty. Probably what they mean in #21' is the same, Adam is the chamber of gauf for Kaworu, when the Kaworu clone or vessel got the soul, that chamber of gauf got empty too.

You know they had to dig Adam up. If the other Angels were say buried under trillions of tons of ice and the Katsuragi team wasn't getting any energy readings from them why bother? They already had Adam for there S^2 experiments, months or years of extra digging was pointless.

Don't know about what reading did they get, but if Adam with its S2 gave readings, then all angels with S2 should have given them too. Besides, the Katsuragi team built a base in the White Moon, probably like the geofront. They dug, deep, and as for a []scientific[/i] team, not taking care of possible Angels there seems a little too unscientific.

Why is it impossible for the Angels to have been somewhere else all along?

[Reichu]

Because I'm sure that Katsuragi would have found them, especially if the eggs are as big as Sandalphon's

No way to know anything about the growth stages of the eggs. (But feasibly they'd start out smaller than Adam...)

also, if Sandalphon was in the White Moon the day of 2I, how would it get into that Volcano 15 years later while STILL BEING INSIDE THE SAME EGG?

Oh yeah, also, since SEELE retrieved Adam sometime after 2I, wouldn't they have perhaps came accross said eggs? This is assuming SEELE got Adam before the series starts.

The idea goes that 2I sent the mandorlas "hither and thither" (as I put it) -- most went into the enlarged oceans, some were flung out into space, one conveniently landed into a volcano...