Why did Gendo leave Shinji?

[Dataprime]

Throughout the course of the series Shinji tells us that he hates his father due to him abandoning him
at a young age. This had led to a very complained relationship between father and son.
Was it ever fully explained on what his reason was for doing this?


Perhaps he was scared and he ran away?
But if that were the case, he tells Shinji later on not to run away from his problems
so that would make him hypocrite?

What do you think?

[ElMariachi]

It depends of the continuity :

- In NGE, as he revealed in EoE, it was indeed because he was scared of not being able to raise his son without Yui's guidance and in the end only hurting him. And yes that makes him a big hypocrite, that was the point.

- In Rebuild, while not outright stated, it's implied that abandoning Shinji was part of Gendo's plan. Supposedly, by abandoning him Gendo wanted that Shinji grows as a deeply insecure, solitary and cynical boy, with difficulties to see through other people's point of view, so his personality would make it easier to bring him close to Rei and later exploit their bond to awake EVA-01.
In short, here he's not an hypocrite but a complete asshole.

That or like in NGE he was afraid of his son and abandoned him because of that, and later while creating his plan to awake EVA-01 he realized that the way he abandoned Shinji made him into the kind of people easily manipulable and whom would get close to Rei, so he tried to bring them closer to later use them to awake EVA-01.
Which would make him an hypocrite and an asshole.

[NemZ]

- In NGE, as he revealed in EoE, it was indeed because he was scared of not being able to raise his son without Yui's guidance and in the end only hurting him. And yes that makes him a big hypocrite, that was the point.

How does that make him a hypocrite, exactly? Gendo was a psychologically damaged man, probably with a shitty childhood and thus no idea how a child should be raised, in the midst of being accused of murdering his wife and about to be very busy with his work. All of this piles up to conclude that yes, he'd have been a shitty dad indeed and Shinji quite likely WAS better off with the teacher.

That or like in NGE he was afraid of his son and abandoned him because of that, and later while creating his plan to awake EVA-01 he realized that the way he abandoned Shinji made him into the kind of people easily manipulable and whom would get close to Rei, so he tried to bring them closer to later use them to awake EVA-01.
Which would make him an hypocrite and an asshole.

This one, though I still don't see how that makes him a hypocrite OR an asshole. Everyone that he cares about gets what they want (or what he thinks theyt want, anyway) if it works.

[ElMariachi]

How does that make him a hypocrite, exactly?

He tells to Shinji to not run away from his problems after Bardiel, while did the exact same thing when he ended alone with his child.
And that argument that he would be very busy doesn't hold : he didn't just let Shinji under the care of the Teacher, he also completely cut ties with him, it's all be stated that before the beginning of the series they only met once a year in front of Yui's grave in the anniversary of her death.
Would that had killed him to brig him to Tokyo-3 and hire a tutor? Sure they wouldn't see each other very often because daddy is the head of NERV, but it would be better than once a year!
Or even just call him from time to time, so Shinji wouldn't think that Gendo abandoned him because he's useless!

Hell, I would had even accepted the argument that keeping him away would protect him from being a target of SEELE if they start to have suspicion on Gendo's loyalty, if he ever cited that excuse, but in EoE he made it clear that it was only because he was afraid to hurt his son.

This one, though I still don't see how that makes him a hypocrite OR an asshole. Everyone that he cares about gets what they want (or what he thinks theyt want, anyway) if it works.

Yeah, because Shinji is the happiest person in the world in Q with what Gendo unwittingly made him do... besides he didn't asked anyone of what they wanted, he just assumed what the people close to him want and don't seem to particularly care about the opinion of the rest of the world.

And with that kind of justification, even SEELE could pass as good guys, since Second Impact and its 50% global death rate is just the first step so everyone will get what they want, or at least what SEELE think they want.

[NemZ]

He tells to Shinji to not run away from his problems after Bardiel, while did the exact same thing when he ended alone with his child.

On the contrary, he WAS facing his problems... Shinji didn't rate in thier number as he would be better off out of the way, or so he thought. It's entirely possible that Shinji's presence would have been a detriment to his other work (banging the Akagis, for one thing), and what makes you think he wouldn't have felt just as neglected in person as he did from afar?

And yes, keeping him safely away from all this mess was also a good possible reason. As I've said before, I don't think Gendo every really wanted Shinji to be a pilot, but was forced to make do.

Yeah, because Shinji is the happiest person in the world in Q with what Gendo unwittingly made him do... besides he didn't asked anyone of what they wanted, he just assumed what the people close to him want and don't seem to particularly care about the opinion of the rest of the world.

In the context of the question I was referring to the original plan, not the even more twisted mess it's become over the time skip. Kaworu is the one who screwed that up.

[UrsusArctos]

Banging Ritsuko was just Gendo living out his teenage fantasies.

Keeping Shinji out of the hands of Seele, keeping him out of Eva-01 (with Yui's soul in it) and out of danger of all the monstrosities heading the way of Tokyo-3 really was a priority to him. Had Gendo really wanted to make Shinji a pilot, he wouldn't have called him in, untrained, at the very last minute, but would have trained him the way he had Asuka trained.

That way, Gendo is a sorry, twisted, mess, and I have the impression he never understood why Yui left him (she told Fuyutsuki, who kept it quiet), and he probably was afraid that Shinji would abandon him in the same way.

[Kendrix]

it's all be stated that before the beginning of the series they only met once a year in front of Yui's grave in the anniversary of her death.

Really?
Because we are told several times that the actual "complete stop of communications" was this mysterious event at Yui's grave "three years ago", during one of those grave visits, implying that Gendo did ocassionally visit before that (allthough pretty obviously still not very often)
It's not like Gendo dumped him off immediately, after: Shinji was three when Yui died, in the pic of him crying at the train station when Gendo leaves him, the script discribes him as "around 4 or 5", so some time passed in-between.


Other than that, the previous posters have probably sufficiently explained that Gendo just felt overburdend/like he couldn't do it right/would do more harm than good if he were personally involved. (So hiring a tutor and keeping him in Tokyo-3/his own house would defeat the purpose)

Note that Gendo didn't just abandon Shinji in a basket, but with a teacher, someone who earned their money with looking after kids, probably his idea of making sure he's taken care of.
(In stark contrast with Manga!Gendo who is all, "the dark side will make you forget" and gladly left him with that abusive, resentful aunt that hardly did Manga!Shinji any good, compared to his anime counterpart... Being agressive and bratty are generally NOT good things, even if they lead to the ocassional "cool" scenes.) Also, Anime!Yui was born into the conspiracy (see CI), so her relatives weren't really an option in the anime!verse. (Either Gendo had to actively make sure they don't find Shinji, or they don't give the slightest fuck) Neither are Gendo's relatives, for obvious reasons, and the fact that they might already be dead or Gendo not knowing where they are right now, since he's ten years older than Yui.

---


I don't think this makes him a hypocrite - He's got no illusions about being a particularly good parent, he knows he fucked off and doesn't expect Shinji to bow down in gratitude or even like him. In fact, the problem is probably closer to him assuming that Shinji wants significantly less to do with him than he actually does, in a parallel to how Shinji thinks everyone hates him.

The difference, is, of course, that Gendo at some point went, "Ah fuck it, they will hate me anyway regardless of what I do, so why should I care if what I do will make them hate me more?" while Shinji still generally tries to get others to like him or at least to not cause them unneccesary trouble allthough there were some points at which he was quite close to slipping into a similar cynical mindset, such as early in eps 19 and 26'

This is why a leghty and drawn-out scene is made of Shinji making the seemingly obvious statement of "It makes me glad when you actually talk to me." in ep 15.

You have to pause and think what he's actually trying to tell Shinji in ep 19, obligatory use of arc words aside.
They're disagreeing about the whole "fighting something with a human inside" thing. Shinji wants to quit piloting because he doesn't want to be in this type of situation anymore.
Gendo is in this type of situation all the time and quite often has to put Shinji, Rei and EVA 01 in harms way for what he percieves will be the greater good, for them as well.
If anything, he's gone too far to the opposite extreme of screwing over the "resent world"/giving away human life too lightly (and makes no exception for himself, he readily pays his underlings in sex or has some bodyhorror-y modifications done to himself, and otherwise looks like he let devotion to his cause eat his life completely. He doesn't look like he gets much leasure time. Or sleep.), while Shinji has not yet understood that some things don't have ideal solutions where there is no risk for anyone.

If he were telling Shinji to, say, visit Touji in the hospital afterwards despite the potentially problematic things that happened between them, and called it "rnning away" if Shinji didn't do this, that would be hypocritical, but in ep 19, Gendo isn't talking about interpersonal relations at all. He's talking about pragmatism and being willing to do ugly things for the survival of humanity.

---

As for Rebuild Gendo, it seems like Yui was in on the plan (See Fuyu's line in 1.11, and her not doing anything to stop NTI allthough she's in the perfect position to do so) and told him to "look after Shinji", so it doesn't seem like abandoning was that much of a significant part of the plan - and really, what about him not quitting NERV (a possibility of their plan going wrong that Fuyu complains/worries about throughout 1.11) and coming to care about a not particularly disagreeable or unaractive person of the opposite sex that he gets put into life-threatening situations with, and all the dozens of proven psychological effects that would make it likely for you to bond with the first ppl you get introduced to in a new and different environment or live through extreme and intense situations with, would not work if he was somewhat better-adjusted?
If anything, that would make it all easier, since he would just go over to Rei on his first day at school and go, "Hi, I'm your new co-worker! How about getting to know each other while I invite you to some yummy Ice-cream?"

And if you're going to say, "He would obviously digg Asuka then!" I point you to token normal people Touji and Kensuke and their reactions to her. There's also the fact that she's shipped to Japan later-

Also, would he be any less desperate to save Rei if she were his best friend, or a sister like figure, or a rival he wants to prove himself to? Gendo's pan didn't require any particula type of relation between them, just a strong attachment.

Fuyu is in on the plan and wants it to work as well, and he still seems to try and encourage Gendo to speak with Shinji in Q.

We pretty much hear it stated out loud that he old reasons still apply. (He doesn't think him personally speaking with Shinji would do him any good) Just see how quickly he practically flees that room after giving Shinji the barest explanations, and then makes sure to never cross paths with him, allthough he and Fuyu are obviously keeping close tabs on what Shinji does, presumably with surveilance cameras.

I think Q!Gendo seems himself as having already given Shinji up 14 years ago, so interacting with him in the present would probably summon up old feelings and distract him.
He's trying to avoid a ituation like Misato failing to detonate the DSS choker.

[Ray]

Either way he's a despicable human being. Have I mentioned before hes one of the few villains in any medium I genuinely hate?

His own son! Who does that to his own son? Even if he was a terrible parent, at least he would have cared enought to have been there!

[Kendrix]

Even if he was a terrible parent, at least he would have cared enought to have been there!

Really?
Say he was a horrible drunkyard with a tendency to get agressive, knew it, and had tried in vain to overcome it.
Would it still be better if he "just was there", or are there possible situations in this world in which "realizing you can't do something" is just "not being proud."

Sure Gendo's being overly pessimistic, and an "It's not you, it's me" logic always comes with a certain unfairness that you're not giving the person the choice of wether they want to deliberately choose you, flaws and all, but there are situations where to love a person is to let them go.

I mean, from where would you take that certainty that Gendo didn't mind the separation at all? (The expressions of present affection we see in some points of eps 20 and 21, and, most strongly of all, the way he, fairly uncharacteristically, latched onto a test subject (Rei) as a "replacement child" of sorts, suggest that he did miss the kid. He was certainly the subject of his last words, and not, say, Yui or Rei, the latter of which would have been responsible for what happened to him in the first place)


I'm not suggesting that Gendo suffered anywhere as much as Shinji (who, for starters, was a confused little kid who just lost his other parent, and would end up pretty much defining himself by this incident) , or that he was correct in determining that this was a situation he couldn't possibly master, but he didn't leave Shinji out of callousness, selfishness or malice.



Also, something that has to be considered when judging the Ikaris (...and this applies to Yui as much, if not more than Gendo) is, if they grabbed someone else's kid and stuffed them in EVA 01 while their own son happily hops across the meadows in untroubled safety, would this really make them better?

[NemZ]

Banging Ritsuko was just Gendo living out his teenage fantasies.

I don't believe that's true. In fact I suspect that he actually did have some measure of feelings for her in his own detached way, and if not for the omnipresent specter of Yui he might have even let himself be happy with her.

The difference, is, of course, that Gendo at some point went, "Ah fuck it, they will hate me anyway regardless of what I do, so why should I care if what I do will make them hate me more?"

Not seeing what you're talking about. He's certainly neglectful, but I don't see anything he does that's actually harmful that wasn't necessitated by the situation. Even instrumentality is his attempt to improve Humanity's lot from what Seele would do to everyone.

If he were telling Shinji to, say, visit Touji in the hospital afterwards despite the potentially problematic things that happened between them, and called it "rnning away" if Shinji didn't do this, that would be hypocritical, but in ep 19, Gendo isn't talking about interpersonal relations at all. He's talking about pragmatism and being willing to do ugly things for the survival of humanity.

Would it be though? He did visit Rei after all, and while he didn't personally check up on Shinji (at least, not when he was awake) he undoubtedly did keep informed on his condition whenever he needed hospitalization and I imagine he poured over Misato's evaluation reports in a detached sort of voyeristic shadow of parenting. It would probably even serve his purposes; I imagine Toji would actually be annoyed that Shinji once again didn't fight back.

[Kendrix]

I don't believe that's true. In fact I suspect that he actually did have some measure of feelings for her in his own detached way, and if not for the omnipresent specter of Yui he might have even let himself be happy with her.

Nah. I'm generally inclined to defend Gendo, but the Akagis are just one area that is unsalvageable.
He didn't even like them. ("The old hag is annoying!" and lack of anything to suggest he thinks any different about Ritsuko)

I don't think it was about sex. That seems to be what Ritsuko thought at first, and felt she could live with, unsatisfied as she was ("At least you're needed physically"), but it's when he shows his utter disregard one time to many, she concluded that "[Gendo] didn't wan't anything from [her]" (not even sexxors) and "never had any sorts of expectations or hopes for [her]" which is probably the state of the truth.

People with this sort of "complex grief" (and yes, there's a scientific term for it and research to explain it as a phenomenon, unromantic as it may be. If it consoles you, it's considered a phenomenon about which they understand relativey little.) often stay "eternal widows", reaseach suggest the "reward center" of the brain activates when they think of their lost loved one, like it would if they were still there, so they don't have "doing things that get it to activate again" as an incentive to snap out of their grief. (It's also why your average antidepressiva don't do anything to this sort of reaction, as they're made to influence the serotonine system).

But it wouldn't be uncommon for someone who lost a spouse and kept being at a constant level of upsetness about it to never remarry or even vehemently oppose the thought of screwing...

Gendo approached the Akagis for their technological knowledge and that alone, and probably wouldn't have approached them if he could risk them doing some irrational act because they're feeling spurned, or tell SEELE about all the things he's doing behind their back. And in fact, the fact that Naoko is shown interested in him before Yui even dies, and various reaction shots of Ritsuko before Naoko dies/this whole backstory with her never having a father all suggest that they threw themselves on him. He's basically accepting them for the same reason that Light Yagami accepted Misa's love confession. They're psycho and can screw him over if he says no, and that completely ruins his "evil plan." The simple way he casually accepted one as a replacement for the other is quite enough to show how little genuine attachment he has for them. At least Naoko, he held in clear contempt; As for Ritsuko, he manipulates her emotional weaknesses to gun her down.

Sure, he never said on-screen that he finds her annoying and worthy of contempt, and she's not identical to Naoko. She tries to act a lot more outwardly logical and values this, even if it's partially to not resemble Naoko, and she's repeatedly stated by herself and her mom to typically act more "reserved" towards men, in contrast to Naoko who seems to have been a lot bolder with her lust, to approach a much younger man soon after his wife died. (That Ritsuko's grandmother still lives suggests that she even got pregnant at a young age).

I guess you're suggesting he might distantly value, or have less contempt for her because of those differences. As for Gendo himself, we never get an insight on that/hear him talking about Ritsuko in a way that would give us a sufficiently clear look into what he thought of her that isn't an inference from what he thinks about Naoko, but I would say he sees it as a trade. "I let you use my dick, you let me use your science skills."
It's unclear how much "acting" and lying he put into "keeping" her, wether he performed a role and told her he loved her and the like, or just acted normally and didn't stop her from reading into it what she wanted.

Her claim that he "did with her body what he wanted" could go either way, but has me lean towards the latter, that maybe she mistook "dispassionate getting it over with" with "uncaring pursuit of his own satisfaction over hers", he doesn't see to have bothered to play the part of a great lover and seducer and make sure to give all her special areas a proper touchin'.

This is furtherly complicated by Ritsuko probably having some unconcious emotional need to be dominated, as much as her "higher functions" as empowered educated person find it "disgusting" and "just like her crazy mother", because she doesn't know how to do things, or because acting dominant makes her feel she's acting too much like Naoko, or even because she never had a dominant male figure in her life and that's what she's longin for.
In any case she mistook Gendo for something he's not and doesn't seem to know anything about his true self. Taking your wife's name doesn't seem like something a very dominant person would do; Even now, he's talking about"seeing Yui again" not "saving her" or "getting her out", or anything more "active", and speaks of how he's nothing without her. He probably was rather dedicative and submissive back when he was with Yui.

We know how he treats people whom he "is very willing to use, but still has a genuine attachment to", such as Rei. Ritsuko very clearly feels that she's in a different category as Rei.

Not seeing what you're talking about. He's certainly neglectful, but I don't see anything he does that's actually harmful that wasn't necessitated by the situation. Even instrumentality is his attempt to improve Humanity's lot from what Seele would do to everyone.

I wasn't talking about any concrete actions, but more his general attitude of "They all hate me anyway no matter why so I don't care if they do" as it is almost verbatim expressed in ep 21.
The pessimistic, misanthropic attitude that leads his to think instrumentality is the only way.

Would it be though? He did visit Rei after all, and while he didn't personally check up on Shinji (at least, not when he was awake) he undoubtedly did keep informed on his condition whenever he needed hospitalization and I imagine he poured over Misato's evaluation reports in a detached sort of voyeristic shadow of parenting. It would probably even serve his purposes; I imagine Toji would actually be annoyed that Shinji once again didn't fight back.

I think Touji would understand it. (see that cut scene from EoE, and also the "farewell" scene in ep 4)

But this comparision doesn't really cut it

Only letting himself be informed on Shinji from afar is exactly the same kind of behavior as Shinji not going to see Touji: It's not that they don't care, but they don't want to risk a situation where they're judged by the other person, and expect more rejection than what would actually make sense given the personality of the other person.
If Shinji had the means to keep tabs on Touji without actually going to the hospital, he would. (There is, in fact, one of the alt. ep 24 scripts where he asks Kensuke for indirect information, but then uses the new hot transfer student as an excuse to not actually visit)

The difference to, say, Gendo visiting Rei somewhere would be that Gendo wouldn't expect Rei to judge him or complain. She does not do that very often.

But that's only secondary to my point, which was that Gendo's complaint in ep 19 was about a very differentsort of flight, one he is not personally guilty of.

[NemZ]

We know how he treats people whom he "is very willing to use, but still has a genuine attachment to", such as Rei. Ritsuko very clearly feels that she's in a different category as Rei.

That's Ritsuko's perspective while she's suicidally depressed, yes, but that doesn't mean it's the final word on the subject. Gendo might well care more than he shows or allows himself to admit, keeping up his mask to hide from himself as much as from others.

the truth is... open to speculation.

I wasn't talking about any concrete actions, but more his general attitude of "They all hate me anyway no matter why so I don't care if they do" as it is almost verbatim expressed in ep 21. The pessimistic, misanthropic attitude that leads his to think instrumentality is the only way.

Oh. Well yeah, fair enough.

And by the same logic, Rebuild!Shinji is fully justified in saying screw the consequences, spears or bust.

Only letting himself be informed on Shinji from afar is exactly the same kind of behavior as Shinji not going to see Touji: It's not that they don't care, but they don't want to risk a situation where they're judged by the other person, and expect more rejection than what would actually make sense given the personality of the other person.

I think it's more likely that Gendo can't allow himself to get closer to Shinji now that he might very easily be killed as part of the angel war. Or that he simply has no idea how to begin again and so he doesn't start.

[Kendrix]

That's Ritsuko's perspective while she's suicidally depressed, yes, but that doesn't mean it's the final word on the subject. Gendo might well care more than he shows or allows himself to admit, keeping up his mask to hide from himself as much as from others.

Because of the afore mentioned lack of direct statements by Gendo, this is hard to really disprove, but what even makes you think/compells you to suspect such a thing?

Just that it's not impossible?

[NemZ]

Eh, just my idea of who Gendo is. The real tragedy of his life is how hard he tries to hide what humanity he still has in spite of his efforts to drive it out. I really wish we knew more about him before Yui died, say if he was given the same amount of flashback treatment Kaji got in the manga, specifically dealing with him as a person and not just as gear in the great plot machine.

[Kendrix]

Hm.

I never thought of him as someone who actively supresses, or "refuses to admit" things in a spock-like fashion, more as someone who is very drained and tired and can't really summon up the emotional energy to do more than what he does in the "present-day world".
He's given up and cannot bring himself to care, allthough he does have attachments, but those are usually just leftovers from before he gave up on everything. Yui, her kid, the girl that kind of looks like both of them, and that's it.

It's not that he doesn't care for Rei, but dining with her on a veeeeery long table and making sure her building doesn't collapse with her in is the most that's on the menu with her; he doesn't fulfill her emotional needs at all, or have an idea of what she thinks about, but not because he's chosing to disregard her, or doesn't guinely love her as if she were his own daughter - he's just not able to give (or thinks he's not able to give) even his own daughter any more than this.

That said, a lot of people don't understand wht their daughters are thinking.

[NemZ]

I don't see him as this level of world-weary simply because he's so driven. He does avoid tedious normal life things, but he probably ALWAYS didn't give a damn about social niceties unless Yui told him to go.

As for Rei, I think he was intentionally keeping her a distance for fear of too much attachment as with Shinji (and less successfully, Fuyutsuki would say). For example, she likely did live with him earlier but was sent to live on her own, and I suspect it had a lot to do with her starting to look less like a little girl and more like a shorter Yui pallette swap.

[Kendrix]

I don't see him as this level of world-weary simply because he's so driven. He does avoid tedious normal life things, but he probably ALWAYS didn't give a damn about social niceties unless Yui told him to go.

These things are true, but that needn't be a contradiction.
He's obviously not sitting around and complaining, he's got a plan to fix it (which is a form of greatness in its own way IMHO), but having this vision of a perfect future world where he can explain it all to everyone with but a thought and no way of them misunderstanding is going to make him even less likely to bother with the present which he has deemed unredeemable.

[Ray]

I'm not suggesting that Gendo suffered anywhere as much as Shinji (who, for starters, was a confused little kid who just lost his other parent, and would end up pretty much defining himself by this incident) , or that he was correct in determining that this was a situation he couldn't possibly master, but he didn't leave Shinji out of callousness, selfishness or malice.

Also, something that has to be considered when judging the Ikaris (...and this applies to Yui as much, if not more than Gendo) is, if they grabbed someone else's kid and stuffed them in EVA 01 while their own son happily hops across the meadows in untroubled safety, would this really make them better?

In the original series, maybe. Although I still despise him, he has at least a little humanity left in him. In the Rebuilds however? Everything he did to Shinji was likely just to push him over the edge to fuel his plans.

It would depend, was it a volunteer or military recruit like Asuka?

The biggest issue I have with Gendo is. . . why spend his whole life attempting to bring back the dead? To the point of doing what he did to his own son? Both in the original series and the Rebuilds? Why not take a risk and cherish and respect the one good thing of his wife he had left?

[Chuckman]

They actually would have all been better off if Gendo had just moved on, married Ritsuko and raised Shinji but he's too much of a wussbag and can't let go. Assuming you think he had any feelings for her, that is.

It's odd that this never seems to come up with all of these characters dealing with toxic relationships. "there are other fish in the sea" doesn't seem to exist in Eva. Huh.

One of the things about this situation is that issues of grief and acceptance are a little skewed here. This is one of the places where Eva's scifiness shoots itself in the foot. Yui isn't dead. The only analogous situation in the real world would be a loved one in some kind of self-imposed catatonic state where they can wake up but won't. That would mess anybody up.

Gendo is really pitiable in that light. He's centered his whole life on this woman, thrown aside his son and another potential partner, all for the sake of somebody that totally, thoroughly rejects him on a daily basis.

[Mr. Tines]

some kind of self-imposed catatonic state where they can wake up but won't.

Joined a convent or some such renunciation of the world.