From Your Lips to the Author's Ears: Story Ideas

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Re: From Your Lips to the Author's Ears: Story Ideas

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Postby Fyrstorm » Mon May 01, 2017 5:51 pm

View Original Postamitakartok wrote:A question: how massively overpowered can I make the Spear of Longinus before people cry canon defilement?

Considering it's supposed to disable Seeds of Life in series canon, I'd say you can probably get away with a lot of stuff-- though I'd try to keep it below planet busting. Still, it's meant to deal with really strong things, so it in turn being really strong shouldn't be a problem.
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Re: From Your Lips to the Author's Ears: Story Ideas

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Postby Bagheera » Mon May 01, 2017 8:48 pm

View Original Postamitakartok wrote:A question: how massively overpowered can I make the Spear of Longinus before people cry canon defilement?


The SoL is a semi-sentient rod of iron that cuts through AT Fields like they're not even there. So long as you have it acting in its assigned role -- that of a security device -- you should be fine. But note that we've only ever seen it do two things: bind, and destroy. If you start giving it funky powers you'll likely get in trouble pretty quick.
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Re: From Your Lips to the Author's Ears: Story Ideas

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Postby Reichu » Mon May 01, 2017 9:05 pm

View Original Postamitakartok wrote:A question: how massively overpowered can I make the Spear of Longinus before people cry canon defilement?

Well, that depends on what you plan on making it do... I say be creative, but don't go full DBZ.

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Postby big_big_bozo » Mon May 01, 2017 11:50 pm

Has anyone ever written a sizable fanfiction exploring the Angels POV? And by "sizable", I mean more than a quick perspective cut in the middle of a "regular" fic (which I think I saw once years ago). I toyed with the idea a while back, starting with Sachiel, since it seemed like an appropriate place to start, but given the miniscule amount of information regarding the behaviours/thought process behind most of the Angels (with some exeptions given to Leliel, Arael, and Armisael of course) this strikes me as quite the challenge.

The idea I had for Sachiel was for it to "speak/think" in fragmented, semi-incoherent bursts of thought as it rapidly undergoes accelerated mental development. By the time its facing off against Unit-01 in their final duel, its mental age would have reached around that of a 8 or 9 year old. Granted, none of this is supported by info found within the show, but I thought it could be interesting. It's always fun to switch the roles around and """humanize""" the enemy a little bit.

However, I doubt it would garner many readers, given that the complexity of the principle cast lends itself much better to a fanfic. Afterall, the Angels are just walking metaphors, simply a means to an end. There's a good reason there ain't much to go on. Still, I could see a damn good Arael fic working out pretty well, if it doesn't exist already.
Last edited by big_big_bozo on Tue May 02, 2017 1:24 am, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: From Your Lips to the Author's Ears: Story Ideas

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Postby Reichu » Tue May 02, 2017 12:24 am

Well, there was a time when I was writing a post-EoE story entirely about the Evas and Angels... This involved Yui taking their souls off into space to be reborn on another planet, but, on the way, getting wrapped up in the affairs of a colony of Angel-like FAR descendants. Things just got weirder from there. So weird that I decided, "why the hell am I wasting this on a fanfic?" and started developing an alternate (non-NGE) launch point. That's all on the back burner at the moment, alas.

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Re: From Your Lips to the Author's Ears: Story Ideas

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Postby silvermoonlight » Tue May 02, 2017 2:55 am

View Original Postamitakartok wrote:A question: how massively overpowered can I make the Spear of Longinus before people cry canon defilement?


I assumed it was capable of anything because its like a gods or goddess's weapon there for it could have be used to destroy cities move mountains and separate oceans or start earth quakes. Hence if it was spoken about in mythology and ancient people drew it in their paintings I wouldn't see it as breaking canon. Also I think the only limit on the lance is the users imagination.
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Re: From Your Lips to the Author's Ears: Story Ideas

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Postby Chuckman » Tue May 02, 2017 10:34 am

View Original Postbig_big_bozo wrote:Has anyone ever written a sizable fanfiction exploring the Angels POV?


http://www.fanfiction.net/s/7400016/1/J ... in-Tokyo-3

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Postby big_big_bozo » Tue May 02, 2017 12:04 pm

Holy moly, I ..... I never knew this was what I needed. God bless you Chuckman, you degenerate bastard.
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Postby Bagheera » Tue May 02, 2017 12:31 pm

Everyone needs Chuckman. It's just a matter of whether or not they realize it.
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Postby xanderkh » Tue May 02, 2017 1:03 pm

All Hail the "Man of Chuck". :emogendo:
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Re: From Your Lips to the Author's Ears: Story Ideas

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Postby amitakartok » Tue May 02, 2017 2:50 pm

View Original PostSnow wrote:Quite likely extremely overpowered. I have concluded that is is capable of destroying almost anything that gets on it's way. Like a massive tungsten-made kinetic energy penetrator with the speed of a comet...


:devil: I see we think alike. I'm thinking that when the Spear is thrown with intent to kill, it homes in on the target and begins to continuously accelerate mid-flight until it strikes the target. The result is that the further away it's thrown from, the harder it hits. Ground to orbit? Instakills Angels. Ground to Moon? You might as well chucked the Tzar Bomba instead. Interplanetary distances? Low c-fractional relativistic KKV similar to the fake Second Impact cover story's meteor. Interstellar distances? Hope that star system within half a lightyear of its trajectory is uninhabited because there's gonna be one hell of a meteor storm from the gravitational wave of a several hundred ton object breaking the lightspeed limit in realspace disrupting the local Oort Cloud.

View Original PostFyrstorm wrote:Considering it's supposed to disable Seeds of Life in series canon, I'd say you can probably get away with a lot of stuff-- though I'd try to keep it below planet busting. Still, it's meant to deal with really strong things, so it in turn being really strong shouldn't be a problem.

View Original PostBagheera wrote:The SoL is a semi-sentient rod of iron that cuts through AT Fields like they're not even there. So long as you have it acting in its assigned role -- that of a security device -- you should be fine. But note that we've only ever seen it do two things: bind, and destroy. If you start giving it funky powers you'll likely get in trouble pretty quick.

View Original PostReichu wrote:Well, that depends on what you plan on making it do... I say be creative, but don't go full DBZ.

View Original Postsilvermoonlight wrote:I assumed it was capable of anything because its like a gods or goddess's weapon there for it could have be used to destroy cities move mountains and separate oceans or start earth quakes. Hence if it was spoken about in mythology and ancient people drew it in their paintings I wouldn't see it as breaking canon. Also I think the only limit on the lance is the users imagination.


Well... I'm thinking that the Spear has a 7-tier authorization scheme. What we see in canon are level 1 (Arael) and level 5 (EoE).

  • Level 1 is where the Spear allows someone to interact with it, ie. pick it up, use it as a melee weapon and throw it. Implicitly granted to all lifeforms with the same AT-field signature as the Spear's associated Seed. Attempting to wield it without authorization causes the Spear to deploy a low-level anti-AT field that instantly tangs humans and burns Angels to the touch as if it was concentrated acid, escalating to engulfing itself and its immediate surroundings in a localized Dirac Sea with randomized spatial and temporal exit vectors (ie. reemerging in a random location a few years later) if unauthorized access attempts persist.
  • Level 2 is where the Spear's associated Seed grants access to the Spear's offensive and defensive functions. Automatically requested by the Spear if it detects hostile spawn from another Seed (ie. ongoing Angel attack); granting it is up to the Seed's discretion. At this point, the Spear actually begins to take orders from its wielder and is now capable of switching from its default defensive mode to various offensive modes (at least two: one focused on easier use in melee combat, one focused on blowing shit up with ranged attacks ranging from homing beamspam to a nuke-level version of Ramiel's anti-mountain fuckoff beam). This level can kill the average Angel with minimum fuss.
  • Level 3 is where things get serious as a consequence to the associated Seed authorizing elevated privileges against an immediate major threat (read: anti-Zeruel). The Spear can now infinitely multiply itself (actually somewhere halfway between abusing quantum physics to exist in multiple locations at the same time and instantaneously constructing duplicates via reverse matter-energy conversion; human science can't quite figure out which) and remote-control the duplicates without diminishing their offensive and defensive capabilities. The Spear can also no longer be physically separated from its user unless said user dies or the associated Seed revokes elevated privileges.
  • Level 4 is where the really nasty shit comes into play: draining core plasma from the nearest star to create and launch a relativistic micro black hole for continent-shattering firepower, using an AT-field to cancel out the strong nuclear force to cause the target's atoms to spontaneously tear themselves apart from electrostatic repulsion, or just simply convert precisely half of the target's mass into antimatter and let it pair-react with the other half for when a more permanent solution is needed. Authorized only at the associated Seed's discretion during emergencies where level 3 won't cut it anymore (such as a hostile having brought its own Spear to the party) and is automatically revoked once the threat is confirmed eliminated.
  • Level 5 is only available to the associated Seed. Aside from being able to override and revoke any of its spawn's permissions, the Seed can also use the Spear as the metaphysical equivalent of a hardware key to issue an immediate recall command to any of its spawn's souls, instantly tanging them regardless of where they are. This is intended primarily as a safety measure in case a Seed's spawn are getting too uppity and is what SEELE misused to achieve Instrumentality in canon.
  • Level 6 can only be invoked by a FAR individual to override a Seed's authority in case a Seed is explicitly acting out of line. It is the equivalent of a child being told by an adult to shut up and stand in the corner because its antics ceased to be amusing. Only invoked as an absolute last resort because such overt interference with how things are going is considered counter-productive when it comes to the Seeds' purpose. Regardless of whether it is invoked or not, the Spear is also hardwired to actively refuse being turned on any FAR individual for any reason, directly or indirectly.
  • Level 7 can only be invoked by the FAR as a collective, in case one of their own number is determined to be abusing level 6.
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Re: From Your Lips to the Author's Ears: Story Ideas

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Postby Reichu » Tue May 02, 2017 3:36 pm

The way you reference the FAR seems to be with the assumption that they're still around. I dunno how much you want to stick to canon here, but it was revealed in NGE2 (the only reason we know about the FAR at all) that they're extinct. Seven of their souls went into the Seeds, and the rest were harvested into Chambers of Guf to be reborn on other planets.

Far as the rest goes... I'm dubious as to how much your Level 5 agrees with what's shown in EoE (though, again, it's up to you how much you care about agreement). The rest seems like the kind of overly detailed mecha fan service you'd find in Anima, and the biggest question on my mind is, what purpose does this serve for whatever narrative you're working on?

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Postby Bagheera » Tue May 02, 2017 3:53 pm

Not sure about that. Of note is the fact that Seele didn't use the Spear to do anything in EoE, and the whole tang/Instrumentality business was orchestrated by Rei/Lilith without using the Spear. Your scheme also doesn't really address what Yui did with the Spear, nor how Rei/Lilith interacted with the composite entity that formed as a result. Simply put, I think you're overcomplicating things. I would suggest looking at three things:

The Spear acted of its own accord to immobilize Adam prior to 2I (and reacted badly when humans fucked with it).
Rei used the Spear as a self-guided weapon in 22.
Yui used the Spear to transform herself in EoE, and Rei/Lilith became a part of that process.

I don't think there are "tiers" to speak of, here; I think it's more that the Spear has a copy of the FAR's plan for this world, and that it immobilized or destroyed impediments to that plan until Yui (somehow) enticed it to go somewhere else with her (possibly by taking whatever remained of Adam's spawn with her, so that they could no longer even conceivably be a threat to Lilith's world). This does raise the question of why Adam's Spear turned so thoroughly on its companion . . . why not eradicate everything associated with Lilith instead? I'm not sure how to answer that. Maybe Lilith somehow hacked Adam's Spear, or maybe the CI is wrong and it was Adam's Spear that was destroyed during First Impact, leaving Lilith's free to imprison him. It's problematic no matter how you look at it, but the pattern of behavior is straightforward: bind, or destroy. Anything else just ties it down and makes it less threatening than it's meant to be.

Simply put, the Spear is not a weapon with levels you unlock. Rather it is a Deus Ex Machina, a blunt instrument meant to carry out a divine will beyond the ken of human beings. Use it sparingly, make its appearances count, and don't explain too much, and all will be well.
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Postby amitakartok » Wed May 03, 2017 2:55 pm

View Original PostReichu wrote:The rest seems like the kind of overly detailed mecha fan service you'd find in Anima


I've never looked upon Anima and have no intention to ever do, as what I've heard from it paints it as a mess of sexual fanservice dressed up as a mecha story.

and the biggest question on my mind is, what purpose does this serve for whatever narrative you're working on?


Part of it is a "giving nuclear weapons to cavemen" metaphor, part of it is a "don't pat yourself on the shoulder for what you've achieved because there's always a bigger fish" motif, rest of it is the part of the narrative that even this kind of power doesn't make you omnipotent, doesn't make you able to save everyone because in the end, you are just one person.


Mind, this is coming from someone who is of the opinion that if something is supposed to be powerful, show how powerful it is, don't just allude to it.
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Postby Bagheera » Wed May 03, 2017 3:44 pm

View Original Postamitakartok wrote:Mind, this is coming from someone who is of the opinion that if something is supposed to be powerful, show how powerful it is, don't just allude to it.


That's reasonable, but it usually works better if you use such demonstrations sparingly and time them for maximum, um, impact. :devil: Think about what we see the Spear do over the course of the show: we get some allusion in 21, yes, but then look at 22: yes, we know that Rei chucks the Spear at an angel, but watch that scene again. Look at how Rei winds up to throw the Spear, and note that she's not just gathering her own strength -- she's struggling to keep the power of the Spear in check. Look what happens when she releases it, and you realize that the Eva's strength had little to do with what happened next. Listen to it howl. Watch it transform, and then rocket away from Zerogoki's hands. Did you notice it made an entire weather system evaporate, simply by passing through? And then it encounters Arael, transforms again, and annihilates the Angel in nothing flat.

But that's all just setup. Look at EoE, when Yui breaks her restraints. The Spear activates, and it returns to Earth at an impossible speed, and it does it on its own. And then it stops, and everything goes to hell. That's scary, and it's bewildering, and nobody has any idea what's going on, but one thing is certain: the Spear is fucking terrifying. It's just a few seconds of screen time in each case, but both are absolute game changers. That is how you display power effectively. Beamspam and such has its place, don't get me wrong, but in NGE/EoE you know the world is gonna change every time the Spear shows up onscreen. And that's what makes it effective as a prop.
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People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
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Re: From Your Lips to the Author's Ears: Story Ideas

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Postby amitakartok » Thu May 04, 2017 4:35 am

View Original PostBagheera wrote:That's reasonable, but it usually works better if you use such demonstrations sparingly and time them for maximum, um, impact. :devil:


Oh, I know. I'm not just throwing spectacular shit around to be cool.

Beamspam and such has its place, don't get me wrong, but in NGE/EoE you know the world is gonna change every time the Spear shows up onscreen. And that's what makes it effective as a prop.


Yep. I'm deliberately writing it so that while the Spear doesn't show up in every battle, when it does, most Angels have an "ohshitohshitohshitohfuckI'msodead" reaction because they know what it is and how badly it can mess them up if it's pointed at them. Not every Angel has that reaction, though; Zeruel's reaction is more akin to "about time you started taking me seriously" and Leliel's is an obviously unimpressed "...really? Talk about compensating for something.".
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Postby amitakartok » Sat May 06, 2017 5:32 am

Something else, then: would there be potential in a teenage Misato being delinquent material?
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Postby Reichu » Sat May 06, 2017 6:18 am

I have Misato flirt with the idea, but she's too loyal to her mom to go all the way. She doesn't want to be responsible for making her mom any more sad than she already is. That's DAD'S specialty, and who wants to be like him?

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Postby Chuckman » Sat May 06, 2017 7:21 pm

I think someone should write a story where the spear is a giant tuning fork.

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Re: From Your Lips to the Author's Ears: Story Ideas

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Postby RadicalRandy » Sun May 07, 2017 3:14 am

The tuning fork spear emanates a noise that attracts the attention of Ramiel, turning the fic into a Lance of Longinus x Ramiel story.
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