From Your Lips to the Author's Ears: Story Ideas

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Postby Reichu » Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:12 pm

There's a translation of the storyboard posted on the forum somewhere, with nice little tidbits like how the four shadows opposite Kaworu belong to the Rei clones, and how Eva-01 is supposed to be underwater (from Ashinoko flooding the Geofront, I guess).

EDIT: Broken links make it kind of ugly now, but found it. thread/11454/Eva-30-Q-Next-Time-Preview-Script-and-Images/

Should note that though translations at the time were conservative and referred to Eva-08's PILOT singular, in retrospect it's pretty obvious that those things on its back are totally dual entry plug hatches.
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Postby Rommel » Sat Mar 25, 2017 5:15 pm

Some of that might come in handy.

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Postby Snow » Sun Mar 26, 2017 7:28 pm

I find the idea of having a Cold War EVA-setting interesting, in particular how it would affect operation of NERV and SEELE, and further the characters.

Now when i talk about such scenario, i am not talking about the typical NATO/Eastern Bloc setting, but a more complicated US sphere of influence/Soviet sphere of influence/Chinese sphere of Influence setting. This would first of all mean that NERV lacked facilities in Chinese and Soviet territory, and potentially Germany. They would likely instead have facilities in other US-aligned countries, and thus have some potentially differing characters.
The UN wouldn't be a supranational superpower and SEELE would have much less total control over the situation. SEELE would also likely lack it's Russian council member.

Now, this situation would give NERV some external competition, as it would be likely challenged by the similar organisations of the opposing powers. NERV would likely be used on the propaganda effort heavily.

How would all this influence the main characters of the story? Most notably, this could mean that Soryu would not appear in the story at all, due to the division of Germany. Another possibility would be having her ideologically charged, such as strong opinions on the Soviet influence. Both of these options would affect Ikari and his decisions considerably. What comes to Ayanami, she would likely be indifferent to the situation. Both Ayanami and Soryu could be part of an opposing force's program, however.

The year of the setting could be maintained as it originally was, or moved backwards, such as the events taking place in 2005, where as the second impact happened in 1990/1991. The trick question of the timeline is to justify the existence of the Soviet Union and most notably it's eastern bloc satellite states. Of course, The USSR could have modernised itself both economically and politically thus extending it's lifetime into the EVA-era.

What are your thoughts on this setting?
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Postby RadicalRandy » Sun Mar 26, 2017 9:59 pm

View Original PostSnow wrote:Most notably, this could mean that Soryu would not appear in the story at all, due to the division of Germany.


...

no.

I think it's a moderately interesting topic to write about, but there are too many large-scale variables to give some sort of accurate representation of what these 'new' characters would be like. That, and it's too political for my personal taste, and I don't think a radical change like that would mesh well when the core of the story revolves around Angels attacking Japan and shit.

Now I wouldn't be opposed to just moving the entire story back a few years so that it takes place in the Cold War Era, if possible (although it's most likely not). I think that an Eva built during that time would look pretty neat.
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Postby Snow » Mon Mar 27, 2017 12:26 am

View Original PostRadicalRandy wrote:...

no.

I think it's a moderately interesting topic to write about, but there are too many large-scale variables to give some sort of accurate representation of what these 'new' characters would be like. That, and it's too political for my personal taste, and I don't think a radical change like that would mesh well when the core of the story revolves around Angels attacking Japan and shit.

Now I wouldn't be opposed to just moving the entire story back a few years so that it takes place in the Cold War Era, if possible (although it's most likely not). I think that an Eva built during that time would look pretty neat.


The central cast could very easily remain the same, although as i mentioned Soryu is the main question mark here. You could simply make her a citizen of FRG and keep her pretty much the same, but that could be wasted potential. I don't believe in a GDR-Asuka though. It is more the supporting characters who change. Take in Commander Ikari, for one. He would have significantly more trouble with foreign bodies, although he would likely have untied hands back with the domestic power.I do not see him having strong opinions on opposing powers though, i've never seen him as an idealist.

It could be very political, and i agree that would be a problem for many. However, i do not think it would be hard to hide all the agendas in day to day-life around Tokyo-3.

I do not see localisation of the story an issue at all. NERV would still have acquired all the Adam/Lilith artefacts, such as the Dead Sea Scrolls. They would keep them at NERV, and most action would happen within the Hakone area.
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Postby Kendrix » Tue Mar 28, 2017 8:07 pm

how about this:Because of how huge the angel threat is the blocks are actually forced to cooperate but everything's fraught with political tension, posturing & full of spies.
Or there's an arms racecomparable to the space programs and they'd only "nominally" work together - They'd sure have their own tech crews & there would be counterproductive tension around revealing state secrets.

Cue comerade Asuka in one of those FDJ jackets with a mission to spy & kick angel butt for the soviet cause, adding an additional layer to her rivalry with Shinji & Rei

She's someone who likes to present an aura of competence & desirability to her surroundings so she may be substantially changedif you put her in different surroundings with different values. The Stasi markedly DID use children & youths as spies & we've all heard of how China manufactured athletes, so with EVA pilots everything could be a lot more effed up.

Bonus points for having her react to decent cars, pineapples and Bananas [cultural in-joke - these famously did not exist in the GDR. Though my cuban relatives tell me GDR technology was considered fancy/advanced by eastern block standards]

Then again, given that she's a redhead there's a huge chance that she's from the south anyways...



Also: If America isn't shady af in this, you're doing it wrong.
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Postby Snow » Tue Mar 28, 2017 11:20 pm

View Original PostKendrix wrote:how about this:Because of how huge the angel threat is the blocks are actually forced to cooperate but everything's fraught with political tension, posturing & full of spies.
Or there's an arms racecomparable to the space programs and they'd only "nominally" work together - They'd sure have their own tech crews & there would be counterproductive tension around revealing state secrets.

Cue comerade Asuka in one of those FDJ jackets with a mission to spy & kick angel butt for the soviet cause, adding an additional layer to her rivalry with Shinji & Rei

She's someone who likes to present an aura of competence & desirability to her surroundings so she may be substantially changed if you put her in different surroundings with different values. The Stasi markedly DID use children & youths as spies & we've all heard of how China manufactured athletes, so with EVA pilots everything could be a lot more effed up.

Bonus points for having her react to decent cars, pineapples and Bananas [cultural in-joke - these famously did not exist in the GDR. Though my cuban relatives tell me GDR technology was considered fancy/advanced by eastern block standards]

Then again, given that she's a redhead there's a huge chance that she's from the south anyways...



Also: If America isn't shady af in this, you're doing it wrong.


All this sounds definitely interesting. And of course she would have a large cultural shock when seeing all the commodities available at Hakone. (GDR technology was the best out of all in the Eastern Bloc, except the Soviet Union, but you really could see this only in their military hardware)
What comes to the States being shady, hasn't it been in the series? We know the Japanese Government was actively plotting against Nerv, so why wouldn't the US government be too?
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Postby Bagheera » Wed Mar 29, 2017 5:47 pm

I offer up your past-due reminder that Asuka is American. She might be American/Japanese, but either way her working for the GDR is gonna take some 'splainin'.
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Postby amitakartok » Thu Mar 30, 2017 5:48 am

Mother defected to the Eastern Bloc for some reason, perhaps?

There are more than a few stories in real-life about one parent grabbing the kids and unilaterally taking them away to his/her home country, with the other parent's country's law enforcement not being able to do anything about the blatant kidnapping due to their jurisdiction not extending beyond national borders.
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Postby Bagheera » Thu Mar 30, 2017 5:53 am

It would take something like that, since her father was likely a spook himself. I mean, for Heaven's sake, his name was Langley!
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Postby Snow » Thu Mar 30, 2017 6:11 am

I think such would potentially work. You could however make her West-German, or simply an American. I don't think you could swap any other pilot's national alignment that easily. Suzuhara and Ikari are both Japanese, and in my opinion, should be kept as such. Ayanami is a weird case, the only way i see her outside NERV territory would be Gendo trading her away for something more important or such, which again, is extremely unlikely as it would get in the way of his instrumentality-plans. But then again, Ayanami is not a single entity, but a series of entities...
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Postby silvermoonlight » Thu Mar 30, 2017 7:58 am

View Original PostSnow wrote:I think such would potentially work. You could however make her West-German, or simply an American. I don't think you could swap any other pilot's national alignment that easily.


I have done this in my story though as Asuka is full German, Toji is Chinese, Kaworu is from the Ukraine and Mari is from Britain. I have had zero back lash from readers over doing this, so I believe if its AU you can change this kind of thing and get away with it. So long as you keep the character's core personality intact and how they look the same you can change everything outside of them including there age. This includes Rei as well as she can be written as human and looking more like Yui with light brown hair and green eyes so long her personality remains intact.
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Postby amitakartok » Thu Mar 30, 2017 1:31 pm

View Original PostBagheera wrote:It would take something like that, since her father was likely a spook himself. I mean, for Heaven's sake, his name was Langley!


View Original PostSnow wrote:I think such would potentially work. You could however make her West-German, or simply an American.


Since my last post, I thought a bit more about this and came up with the following scenario.

Kyoko (or whatever she's called now) was born in what would later become East Germany but when the Soviets rolled in at the end of WW2, her parents sent her away to the west due to the horror stories about what the Red Army did to German civilians. When the Iron Curtain went up, Kyoko was outside it; safe, but cut off from her family. She eventually got a job, married and had a daughter...

...only to be approached by the Stasi who were interested in certain things Kyoko had access to at her workplace. So they made her an offer: grab the stuff, defect and fork it over, or else her parents suffer the consequences.
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Postby Snow » Thu Mar 30, 2017 2:37 pm

View Original Postamitakartok wrote:Since my last post, I thought a bit more about this and came up with the following scenario.

Kyoko (or whatever she's called now) was born in what would later become East Germany but when the Soviets rolled in at the end of WW2, her parents sent her away to the west due to the horror stories about what the Red Army did to German civilians. When the Iron Curtain went up, Kyoko was outside it; safe, but cut off from her family. She eventually got a job, married and had a daughter...

...only to be approached by the Stasi who were interested in certain things Kyoko had access to at her workplace. So they made her an offer: grab the stuff, defect and fork it over, or else her parents suffer the consequences.


Sounds like a plausible backstory. She could just have been born in the East all together, and giving birth to Asuka in the late 70's. The only question in the storyline is when exactly does the second impact happen. In the early 80's?
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Postby Fyrstorm » Sun Apr 23, 2017 5:07 am

I've had some... thoughts, and have decided to share them. This idea itself is extremely bare-bones at the moment (due to a few reasons), but it... could have some potential? Whatever the case, I'll slap it (and the other two) under a spoiler.

First one:
SPOILER: Show
The idea itself is actually pretty short. Basically, instead of Misato having to pull a last minute save on Shinji, Gendo decides to hire someone to pick him up and deliver him to Nerv. In particular, an organisation who's already shown that they're very good at bringing important people to their destinations safely.

Needless to say, Shinji is pretty surprised when he's picked up by a bunch of hot-blooded martian dudes with a pair of 300-year-old mobile suits up their sleeves. And Tekkaden is just as surprised when the giant monster shows up.

That's right, it's an IBO crossover (or fusion fic, I guess, since it would involve the two settings being combined in some way). I don't actually know where I'd go from there, or how to match up the histories-- but I do have some ideas (which are kinda messed up by, once more, timeline issues)

Second one:
SPOILER: Show
Assuming the series timeline, how would things pan out if Asuka and Unit-02 ended up transferring to Japan later? As in, just in time to intercept Matarael later, leaving Shinji and Rei to deal with Gaghiel, Israfel, and Sandalphon. Now there's the issue of this brand new Eva Pilot showing up after the first two have already started getting along really well-- even more so than in canon, since they'd have to have fought Israfel together-- and Asuka's going to have to obviously integrate herself into it. I mean, it'd probably end badly, but it's just something to consider.

Third one:
SPOILER: Show
Not very fleshed out, but one thing I'd actually really like to see is something like what's going down in 3.0-- that is, factions have started fighting while the Angels are still coming. Just the idea that someone's started to act a bit too hastily, thus inviting open conflict while world-ending beings still show up is really interesting. Imagine, if you will, a brawl between (let's say) SEELE's and NERV's Evas. Two groups of giant robots going at each other with everything they've got, tearing each other limb from limb... and then, through everyone's entry plugs, a familiar alert goes off; PATTERN BLUE DETECTED. ANGEL IDENTIFIED. Just a massive oh, shit moment for everyone as former enemies are forced to momentarily team up to put down the even bigger threat. It's just a really fun idea for me.


I don't plan on actually doing anything with these (especially the second one) until after I finish NtE-- if, you know, I do anything with them at all.
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Postby Bagheera » Sun Apr 23, 2017 5:40 am

View Original PostFyrstorm wrote:I've had some... thoughts, and have decided to share them. This idea itself is extremely bare-bones at the moment (due to a few reasons), but it... could have some potential? Whatever the case, I'll slap it (and the other two) under a spoiler.

First one:
SPOILER: Show
The idea itself is actually pretty short. Basically, instead of Misato having to pull a last minute save on Shinji, Gendo decides to hire someone to pick him up and deliver him to Nerv. In particular, an organisation who's already shown that they're very good at bringing important people to their destinations safely.

Needless to say, Shinji is pretty surprised when he's picked up by a bunch of hot-blooded martian dudes with a pair of 300-year-old mobile suits up their sleeves. And Tekkaden is just as surprised when the giant monster shows up.

That's right, it's an IBO crossover (or fusion fic, I guess, since it would involve the two settings being combined in some way). I don't actually know where I'd go from there, or how to match up the histories-- but I do have some ideas (which are kinda messed up by, once more, timeline issues)


Gotcha covered. The mobile armors were developed to fight the Angels, but turned on their creators (thus requiring the development of the Gundams to put them down). Now the Angels' arrival is imminent, and MAs are the only way to stop them -- MAs piloted by human children (who can synchronize with the Ein-esque operating systems of the MAs -- that's right, the MAs are operated by the nervous systems of the pilots' mothers, which is why they don't go rogue the way the original MAs did). Tekkadan runs interference against human threats while the (other) kids do their thing, and McGillis does the same on the political front (Kudelia is working toward a free Mars/an end to human debris as in the original script, but is doing so in concert with Tekkadan's, Nerv's, and Gjallarhorn's interests -- i.e. kill the Angels first, but do it without sacrificing the kids).

As mashups go, this is pretty good. Really good, in fact. I hope someone writes it. ^_^
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Postby amitakartok » Sun Apr 23, 2017 7:18 am

I once proposed an idea elsewhere about Shinji somehow getting raised by Tekkadan before being recalled by Gendo.

I thought it would be interesting to have a Mika-and-Orga-esque dynamic between Shinji and Gendo: instead of Gendo wanting Shinji to pilot without explanation and Shinji grumbling about that, Gendo explicitly doesn't want Shinji to pilot whereas Shinji pilots because he has nothing better to do and doesn't mind potentially getting killed in the process.

Instead of a cold and uncaring putting his child in harm's way by abusing said child's emotional dependency on him, the parent doesn't want his child in harm's way but the child goes anyway because he sees no other reason for his own existence, hammering home in the parent just how badly he fucked up raising his son.
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Postby Fyrstorm » Sun Apr 23, 2017 7:04 pm

View Original PostBagheera#859613 wrote:Gotcha covered. The mobile armors were developed to fight the Angels, but turned on their creators (thus requiring the development of the Gundams to put them down). Now the Angels' arrival is imminent, and MAs are the only way to stop them -- MAs piloted by human children (who can synchronize with the Ein-esque operating systems of the MAs -- that's right, the MAs are operated by the nervous systems of the pilots' mothers, which is why they don't go rogue the way the original MAs did). Tekkadan runs interference against human threats while the (other) kids do their thing, and McGillis does the same on the political front (Kudelia is working toward a free Mars/an end to human debris as in the original script, but is doing so in concert with Tekkadan's, Nerv's, and Gjallarhorn's interests -- i.e. kill the Angels first, but do it without sacrificing the kids).

As mashups go, this is pretty good. Really good, in fact. I hope someone writes it. ^_^

Hmm... Yeah, I think I'll definitely want to do this (after finishing NtE). That's some top notch worldbuilding there, and it's begging to be used.

Now, there's one thing I'm not really certain about, and that's the Nerv MAs. There's a few options there at the moment.
- The first option is to have the Nerv MAs be new/different models from the one we've seen. While this would make them more distinct, the problem is that... well, there's no real references for IBO MAs besides Hashmal, and I don't know what sort of designs would work for them.
- The other option (and the one I've thought out more) is to use the Hashmal as the base for the Nerv MAs (maybe Hashmals were the most common, maybe a Hashmal was the only one they found in an intact enough state to reverse engineer, etc). This would mean that they tend to be more same-y, but there's still ways of differentiating them, and there's actual examples of what Hashmals are able to do. For the sake of simplicity, I'm going to assume that this option is the case.

More thoughts:
MAs vs. Angels  SPOILER: Show
Actual combat using MAs would be a pretty different affair from what we see with the Evas. I can see the typical approach as; attack from all sides with their Plumas, wear down the AT Field with the beam cannon, and destroy the core with the wire blade. While MAs don't have AT Fields, their nanolaminate armour and high agility should enable them to avoid damage, and Plumas can be used either to body-block attacks or repair the MAs in the field (though the latter would probably take a lot of time). It seems like fights would be a battle of attrition to wear down the Angels' Fields, rather than having to kill them before their battery runs out.

Berserkers  SPOILER: Show
Going berserk-- that is, breaking free of pilot control-- would be a lot more horrifying in MAs, since their original programming (during the war) was basically 'kill everyone and everything around you'. If an Eva goes berserk, the maternal soul will probably just go for the Angel-- but if a Hashmal Type-E was to lose it, there's the possibility of that program reactivating, resulting in the MA going on a killing spree.

Of course, there's one thing to limit the consequences of this-- and that's the fact that there actually is something that can stop a rampaging Mobile Armour; a Gundam. It'd probably do nasty things to the Gundam pilot and wreck the MA (to say nothing of the MA's pilot), but it is an actual option in case one goes berserk.

Ooh, another idea! Skip Bardiel, and have MA Units 03 and/or 04 activate prematurely, and revert to their original programming to actually show off just how terrifying a (pair of) rogue MA(s) can be. If you have the(ir) pilot(s) stuck inside the unit(s), you can still have the stakes of the Bardiel fight as well.


So yeah, I like this. Sounds fun.

View Original Postamitakartok#859616 wrote:I once proposed an idea elsewhere about Shinji somehow getting raised by Tekkadan before being recalled by Gendo.

I thought it would be interesting to have a Mika-and-Orga-esque dynamic between Shinji and Gendo: instead of Gendo wanting Shinji to pilot without explanation and Shinji grumbling about that, Gendo explicitly doesn't want Shinji to pilot whereas Shinji pilots because he has nothing better to do and doesn't mind potentially getting killed in the process.

Instead of a cold and uncaring putting his child in harm's way by abusing said child's emotional dependency on him, the parent doesn't want his child in harm's way but the child goes anyway because he sees no other reason for his own existence, hammering home in the parent just how badly he fucked up raising his son.

It would be interesting-- though it would probably work better as its own thing (i.e. not a part of Mobile Armour Evangelion).

Of course, when I think about it... this may eventually/quickly end up something like the Decent Arc, where Gendo doesn't want to deploy Unit-01 unless absolutely necessary (since, while Shinji may fight well, he's also going to be putting both himself and Unit-01/Yui at more of a risk), though he'd obviously have to wait until he has more Evas available. Granted, I am kinda assuming a lot of things here (like, you know, Evas being Evas), but...

I don't know. It's a neat idea, and if you want to do anything with it then go for it, but I personally won't do anything with it.
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amitakartok
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Re: From Your Lips to the Author's Ears: Story Ideas

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Postby amitakartok » Mon May 01, 2017 5:16 pm

A question: how massively overpowered can I make the Spear of Longinus before people cry canon defilement?
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Re: From Your Lips to the Author's Ears: Story Ideas

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Postby Snow » Mon May 01, 2017 5:44 pm

View Original Postamitakartok wrote:A question: how massively overpowered can I make the Spear of Longinus before people cry canon defilement?


Quite likely extremely overpowered. I have concluded that is is capable of destroying almost anything that gets on it's way. Like a massive tungsten-made kinetic energy penetrator with the speed of a comet...
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