TV series ending

[Ryo]

Shinji rejects Complementaion in both, of course

Now what makes you think that?

Have you heard this before, bychance?

"Yes. I am nothing but I. I am I. I wish to be I."

"Good bye, my mother"

Shinji clearly says that he wishes to be himself - which is impossible in a world without AT fields. Also, do you think he'd say goodbye to Yui if he was going to stay with her?

Edit: Well, if I'm not the slow one... :roll:

Edit Edit: If it wasn't clear, the two quotes are from the script, in the end of Ep. 26.

[Gazdakka Gizbang]

I've always been perplexed, to put it mildly, how anyone can get the idea that Shinji is accepting Complementation in #26; it seems to me like a theory that one could only come up with if one watches the episode with the sound turned down throughout.

Seems to you. You are not taking into account that everyone's perception of Evangelion's conclusion is different, not everyone is like you, and since we never really got Anno's word on the whole thing it remains debatable whether Episode 26 and EoE were concurrent or not. I am equally perplexed at how people who saw Episode 26 can view it as a rejection of Complementation, but then again it's this variation in opinions that is what makes us human...

(By the same token; I always want to ask people to interpret #26' I Neeed You as "Shinji and Asuka are the last two people on earth [the new Adam and Eve ], and everyone else is dead and/or never coming back": Did you watch the movie with the sound turned down? Did the words of Rei and Yui about everyone being able to come back just disappear down a memory hole?!)

Wow, your Rei Avatar isn't agitated just for show...

The Adam-Eve concept was actually quite popular two years ago, but at least now people are starting to grasp the fact that such a concept isn't necessarily correct. I for one didn't really believe it, as forced repopulation of the species didn't ever seem like something Shinji would want. And in spite of your ragged humour I watched the movie on Surround Sound...

I notice that people that argue the "Shinji is accepting Complementation" notion never bother with quotes to back up that interpretation, which is hardly surprising, since everything that is said in #26, without exception, points to the opposite conclusion. I once saw someone try to explain away Misato's "Considering that, the real world itself is not always bad", with some torturous argument that "real world" means something else besides, well, real world... it was sort of pathetic.

Sounds like a person who was pretty single-minded in purpose. As I said earlier, considering that my eyes now have trenches beneath them that are as black as coal, I'm not in the mood to go scavenging EVA scripts for quotes. Come to think of it, I think it's logical that I should be getting sleep at thsi time. Bye....

[Soluzar]

I've always been perplexed, to put it mildly, how anyone can get the idea that Shinji is accepting Complementation in #26; it seems to me like a theory that one could only come up with if one watches the episode with the sound turned down throughout.

Seems to you. You are not taking into account that everyone's perception of Evangelion's conclusion is different, not everyone is like you, and since we never really got Anno's word on the whole thing it remains debatable whether Episode 26 and EoE were concurrent or not. I am equally perplexed at how people who saw Episode 26 can view it as a rejection of Complementation, but then again it's this variation in opinions that is what makes us human...

No. I'm sorry, but that's a fallacious statement. There are many parts of NGE which are open to multiple interpretations, but there are also those parts which are not. There exists also a grey area in which the proper interpretation is hard to understand, at first, and other interpretations seem likely. They are simply wrong, some of the time.

We each have an interpretation. Needless to say, we cannot both be right. I am wholly against the notion that "everyone's perception of Evangelion's conclusion is different". There are many things within this anime which affect different people differently, but I do not believe that there are two valid interpretations of the ending. There is one. Whether it is mine, or yours, there is [b]only[b] one.

The question you have raised only just barely remains debateable. If you can offer any compelling reason why the detail of Shinji accepting/rejecting complementation would have been changed between the TV ending and the movie ending, then go ahead and do so. It's a fact - a matter of record - that EoE is based directly upon unused scripts for an early version of the ending as planned for television. While many additions were made to this original script, many these were made primarily because of the extra budgetary freedom that EoE made possible. It's nothing more, nothing less than how the director always wanted to make the ending.

(By the same token; I always want to ask people to interpret #26' I Neeed You as "Shinji and Asuka are the last two people on earth [the new Adam and Eve ], and everyone else is dead and/or never coming back": Did you watch the movie with the sound turned down? Did the words of Rei and Yui about everyone being able to come back just disappear down a memory hole?!)

Wow, your Rei Avatar isn't agitated just for show...

Ad-hominem attacks, no matter how mild and humourous only draw attention to the fact that you are employing diversionary tactics... :roll:

The Adam-Eve concept was actually quite popular two years ago, but at least now people are starting to grasp the fact that such a concept isn't necessarily correct. I for one didn't really believe it, as forced repopulation of the species didn't ever seem like something Shinji would want. And in spite of your ragged humour I watched the movie on Surround Sound...

Well, it's good to know that you will reject some theories which have utterly no basis in fact. :twisted:

I notice that people that argue the "Shinji is accepting Complementation" notion never bother with quotes to back up that interpretation, which is hardly surprising, since everything that is said in #26, without exception, points to the opposite conclusion. I once saw someone try to explain away Misato's "Considering that, the real world itself is not always bad", with some torturous argument that "real world" means something else besides, well, real world... it was sort of pathetic.

Sounds like a person who was pretty single-minded in purpose.

What is your point? I could be as single-minded as I wished to be regarding the notion that the Earth is flat, and yet it will not make that "theory" one iota more true. I could make it the monomania that drives me, and yet still it would remain nonsense.

As I said earlier, considering that my eyes now have trenches beneath them that are as black as coal, I'm not in the mood to go scavenging EVA scripts for quotes. Come to think of it, I think it's logical that I should be getting sleep at thsi time. Bye....

I trust that you will be back. Watch #26 again, though, I urge you to do so. I would also advise you to be wary of the translation if you are watching the dub. Ask yourself this: Through the various psychodramas presented in the ending, does it not seem to you that Shinji comes ever closer and closer to understanding how he can overcome the interpersonal problems that affected him in the real world, to the point where he would have wished to return. It is possible to see the film EoE as having the primary purpose of illuminating those final moments of complementation, once Shinji has grown to accept his life for what it is. Considering that the emotional journey is approximately the same in both versions of the ending, it doesn't seem like it should be considered a radical conclusion that both have the same result.

[Shin-seiki]

To re-iterate that one point, it seems to me that the burden of proof is entirely on those who argue what is, to me anyway, the strange and counter-intuitive notion that Anno would come up with one ending that flatly contadicts the other... Why would he? Not to mention that, having pounded home the point (which is made in both EoTV and EoE) that what Shinji did in 3I is equated with running away, and that running away is a bad thing, what sort of dramatic sense does it make for the series as a whole, for Shinji to finally surrender to that impulse at the climax of the last episode? It makes nonsense of everything that has lead up to that point.

[ObsessiveMathsFreak]

We each have an interpretation. Needless to say, we cannot both be right. I am wholly against the notion that "everyone's perception of Evangelion's conclusion is different". There are many things within this anime which affect different people differently, but I do not believe that there are two valid interpretations of the ending. There is one. Whether it is mine, or yours, there is [b]only[b] one.

But hasn't the director gone on the record as saying that the ending is meant to be ambiguous. It is designed so that each of us must draw our own conclusions, and decide for ourselves what has happened and what will happen? In that sense, ther is no one single real ending. There is an infinitude of interpretations.

[thewayneiac]

We each have an interpretation. Needless to say, we cannot both be right. I am wholly against the notion that "everyone's perception of Evangelion's conclusion is different". There are many things within this anime which affect different people differently, but I do not believe that there are two valid interpretations of the ending. There is one. Whether it is mine, or yours, there is [b]only[b] one.

But hasn't the director gone on the record as saying that the ending is meant to be ambiguous. It is designed so that each of us must draw our own conclusions, and decide for ourselves what has happened and what will happen? In that sense, ther is no one single real ending. There is an infinitude of interpretations.

I think you (and others) are mis-interpreting Anno's words. "Draw your own conclusions" means "figure it out for yourself", not "it means whatever you say." Shinji learns that if he is everyone then he is no one. Similarly, if the ending can mean anything, then it means nothing, and I don't think that Anno would say "The ending of my story is meaningless", which is what your interpretation of his words would indicate. Certainly he deliberately made the show hard to figure out, but there is nothing in his words that says that there there isn't a correct interpretation that you can find if you look hard enough.

[ObsessiveMathsFreak]

I think you (and others) are mis-interpreting Anno's words. "Draw your own conclusions" means "figure it out for yourself", not "it means whatever you say." Shinji learns that if he is everyone then he is no one. Similarly, if the ending can mean anything, then it means nothing, and I don't think that Anno would say "The ending of my story is meaningless", which is what your interpretation of his words would indicate. Certainly he deliberately made the show hard to figure out, but there is nothing in his words that says that there there isn't a correct interpretation that you can find if you look hard enough.

I was speaking more in terms of the last scene of EoE more so than anything else.

While there are many things in Evangelion that do have a correct interpretation some things are left ambiguous, and will be so no matter how much we analyse it. For example will Shinji and Asuka be happy together? We really can't answer this. But other things within the series are also equally unanswerable. For instance, did Gendou love Shinji? One cannot catagorically give a yes or no answer to this question. How much was Shinji aware of over the course of the series? Again eternally ambiguous. Who killed Kaji? Well, it was obviously Penpen!;)

But the ending in paticular is the most ambiguous part. I'd argue here, that the director intentionally gave no fixed meaning to the ending. He left it an open question, unresolved. We must make of it what we will. Is it happy or sad, hopeful or despairing? We have to make up our own minds about these things because it was never designed to be one way or the other.

[Digitalex]

I was speaking more in terms of the last scene of EoE more so than anything else.
...

But the ending in paticular is the most ambiguous part. I'd argue here, that the director intentionally gave no fixed meaning to the ending. He left it an open question, unresolved. We must make of it what we will. Is it happy or sad, hopeful or despairing? We have to make up our own minds about these things because it was never designed to be one way or the other.

In terms of the last scene, I would say it is open ended. However, I think Anno's intended ending was not based on having the viewer think whether Asuka and Shinji would be happy together or not.

I saw the ending scene as a way to recap the message(s) about:

-Not running away from problems. Shinji learned to overcome his fear of other people's perceptions of him. He came back to a human form to face reality vs. living in a false world.

-People not wanting to be alone. Asuka and Shinji wound up together at the beach.

The argument about Asuka's and Shinji's potential relationship was secondary. I consider it icing on the cake. He may have left us with that image in closing but it wasn't necessarily an ending to the global message(s) he was trying to convey throughout the series.

Just my $0.02

[Soluzar]

We each have an interpretation. Needless to say, we cannot both be right. I am wholly against the notion that "everyone's perception of Evangelion's conclusion is different". There are many things within this anime which affect different people differently, but I do not believe that there are two valid interpretations of the ending. There is one. Whether it is mine, or yours, there is [b]only[b] one.

But hasn't the director gone on the record as saying that the ending is meant to be ambiguous. It is designed so that each of us must draw our own conclusions, and decide for ourselves what has happened and what will happen? In that sense, ther is no one single real ending. There is an infinitude of interpretations.

I think you (and others) are mis-interpreting Anno's words. "Draw your own conclusions" means "figure it out for yourself", not "it means whatever you say." Shinji learns that if he is everyone then he is no one. Similarly, if the ending can mean anything, then it means nothing, and I don't think that Anno would say "The ending of my story is meaningless", which is what your interpretation of his words would indicate. Certainly he deliberately made the show hard to figure out, but there is nothing in his words that says that there there isn't a correct interpretation that you can find if you look hard enough.

Wayne said what I would have said if I'd have thought about it for long enough. Excellently worded, Wayne.

While there are many things in Evangelion that do have a correct interpretation some things are left ambiguous, and will be so no matter how much we analyse it. For example will Shinji and Asuka be happy together? We really can't answer this. But other things within the series are also equally unanswerable. For instance, did Gendou love Shinji? One cannot catagorically give a yes or no answer to this question. How much was Shinji aware of over the course of the series? Again eternally ambiguous. Who killed Kaji? Well, it was obviously Penpen!Wink

There are many things left ambiguous, but that doesn't mean everything is ambiguous. Did you really read what Wayne wrote? The overall ending is definite and concrete, whether you like to think it is or not. There are many smaller parts of that ending that the answers to will remain a matter of opinion, but not the central resolution which constitues the overall ending.

But the ending in paticular is the most ambiguous part. I'd argue here, that the director intentionally gave no fixed meaning to the ending. He left it an open question, unresolved.

That's a amazingly radical interepretation of the evidence that has been presented to you. I couldn't disagree with you more if I was trying

We must make of it what we will. Is it happy or sad, hopeful or despairing? We have to make up our own minds about these things because it was never designed to be one way or the other.

Rhetoric is an excellent device for convincing people to support your opinon, as long as that opinion does not entirely go against established facts.

The writer has gone on record as saying "figure it out for yourself". That really doesn't mean the same as "It means whatever you want it to mean". It means "There is a meaning, but you will need to figure it out for yourself. There will be a right answer and a wrong answer."

[Reichu]

Well, if the burden of proof is on them, I challenge GG and others to provide the proof that clinches the opposing theory for them.

[Dave]

Well, if the burden of proof is on them, I challenge GG and others to provide the proof that clinches the opposing theory for them.

That would require a trip to Japan, extensive knowledge of the geography, a strong rope, and three bushels of bananas.

What exactly is the big debate again? EoTV takes place inside Shinji's mind, EoE takes place in the "real" world. The friend who let me borrow EoE told me this, and I never once found any reason to disbelieve him. Sometimes, simple is good.

[Gazdakka Gizbang]

We each have an interpretation. Needless to say, we cannot both be right. I am wholly against the notion that "everyone's perception of Evangelion's conclusion is different". There are many things within this anime which affect different people differently, but I do not believe that there are two valid interpretations of the ending. There is one. Whether it is mine, or yours, there is [b]only[b] one.

Of course, but we don't know for sure which one, and probably never will.
I'm assuming everyone here has a degree of knowledge that they have already read the debate of "concurrent-alternate" in Eva Otaku, and both views do present some interesting arguments.

The question you have raised only just barely remains debateable. If you can offer any compelling reason why the detail of Shinji accepting/rejecting complementation would have been changed between the TV ending and the movie ending, then go ahead and do so. It's a fact - a matter of record - that EoE is based directly upon unused scripts for an early version of the ending as planned for television. While many additions were made to this original script, many these were made primarily because of the extra budgetary freedom that EoE made possible. It's nothing more, nothing less than how the director always wanted to make the ending.

In the long run there is no real reason to debate whether these endings were concurrent or alternate, considering that EoE is the official ending to Evangelion as depicted by the RCB.

Ad-hominem attacks, no matter how mild and humourous only draw attention to the fact that you are employing diversionary tactics...

Maybe so, but questioning a person's judgment and patronising them isn't particularly neccessary. He could have simply presented the information that such a theory isn't possible and is a very unlikely ideal that would be adopted by Anno.

Well, it's good to know that you will reject some theories which have utterly no basis in fact.

I think the only basis which people could form out of that theory was that there were two people left in existence at that particular time, and were male and female. Whilst that would seem adequate in itself to explain the case, there is still the possiobility that the rest of the world could return to reality, and hence disprove that theory.

Those kinds of theories emerge all the time, and some can be a real pain to debate. Some examples include Asuka being a neo-Asuka-Rei-Misato mix at the final scene, and Kaworu being a clone with the soul of Adam...

What is your point? I could be as single-minded as I wished to be regarding the notion that the Earth is flat, and yet it will not make that "theory" one iota more true. I could make it the monomania that drives me, and yet still it would remain nonsense.

Haha, funny that you should bring that particular case up, considering there is still a Flat Earth Society established in the world. They believe all the satellite pictures and feedback we've received about Earth's spherical surface are false imagery that was made in a studio, similar to how the final Moon Landing footage was apparently fake. :P

I trust that you will be back.

What, did you think I was going to get up and leave? Hell no!!!

Watch #26 again, though, I urge you to do so. I would also advise you to be wary of the translation if you are watching the dub. Ask yourself this: Through the various psychodramas presented in the ending, does it not seem to you that Shinji comes ever closer and closer to understanding how he can overcome the interpersonal problems that affected him in the real world, to the point where he would have wished to return.

Well after the ever-increasing number of debates that are arriving in deadlocks recently, I feel compelled to watch the whole series a second time (third if we exclude the movies). I'll get around to it during the holidays, as I'm currently engaged in exams.

Things would be sooo much better if I knew Japanese as a primary language with English...

It is possible to see the film EoE as having the primary purpose of illuminating those final moments of complementation, once Shinji has grown to accept his life for what it is. Considering that the emotional journey is approximately the same in both versions of the ending, it doesn't seem like it should be considered a radical conclusion that both have the same result.

Well, Shinji's outlook is different for certain. In Episode 26 we have a happy little teenager who is congratulated by all and congratulates everyone else, yet in EoE the result is radically different. We have a depressed and saddened Shinji who says good bye to his mother and emerges on the beach. Following this emergence he begins to strangle Asuka and then collapses into tears on top of her. Doesn't sound like he's the same....

Of course we all know that appearances are very much illusionary, as many initially interpreted EoE to be a sad conclusion to the series, which is not so, but Shinji's ecstatic happiness should have been reflected to some level at the end. In my personal opinion I believe Anno chose to alter the final moments to better reflect what could be termed as "realistic", and to calm the hordes of fans who sent death threats to him...

To re-iterate that one point, it seems to me that the burden of proof is entirely on those who argue what is, to me anyway, the strange and counter-intuitive notion that Anno would come up with one ending that flatly contadicts the other... Why would he? Not to mention that, having pounded home the point (which is made in both EoTV and EoE) that what Shinji did in 3I is equated with running away, and that running away is a bad thing, what sort of dramatic sense does it make for the series as a whole, for Shinji to finally surrender to that impulse at the climax of the last episode? It makes nonsense of everything that has lead up to that point.

Well in spite of the negative feedback that was received for the last episode, it would seem logical that Anno would make an ending that isn't the same to the first one, or that he would revitalise the original ending in order to tell it the way he had wished it to be told).

If people needed to simply want to continue living in the real world in order to reject Complementation though, I would have expected a far larger number of people lying where Shinji and Asuka were, Shigeru to name one. Perhaps this is a case in which whether Shinji rejects Complementation or not, he is still going to be assimilated into the Ultimate Being...

On another note, I was just pondering how exactly the rest of the cast could return to reality if Complementation was ruined. Would their minds still be able to interact with one another in order for the characters to arrive at the conclusion that they wish to continue existing in the real world? I think I heard that the original ending was supposed to have Shigeru playing his guitar to the rest of the cast, but that was cut thanks to the budget problem. Dang...

But hasn't the director gone on the record as saying that the ending is meant to be ambiguous. It is designed so that each of us must draw our own conclusions, and decide for ourselves what has happened and what will happen? In that sense, ther is no one single real ending. There is an infinitude of interpretations.

He was noted as having told the fans to arrive at their own conclusions, but that was probably at the point when he was so sick of Evangelion that he honestly didn't care anymore. By saying that he was just appealing to the most people he could, saying pretty much "whatever floats your boat". I'm sure he had his own interpretation of the series and movies which he had originally intended to tell the fans, but he might have been pretty frustrated after what people thought of his original Episode 26 that he didn't want to present it. He and his assistant director were at a more "It's finished, move on" attitude by then.

Just like to answer to of those things though :P:

For instance, did Gendou love Shinji? One cannot catagorically give a yes or no answer to this question.

EoE indicates that yes he did love Shinji:

Gendo:
I've been waiting for this moment for so long... To finally be with you again, Yui.
When I'm with Shinji, I only hurt him. So, it's better that I do nothing.

Yui:
So, you were afraid of Shinji.

Gendo:
I don't believe that I can be loved by others... I'm not worthy of love.

Kaworu:
You're just running away. You simply reject the world before you get hurt.

Yui:
Afraid of the shapeless, invisible things between people...

Rei:
You just closed your heart to others.

Gendo:
So, this is my retribution. Forgive me... Shinji.

(Demon-like EVA-01 bites Gendo in half... Rei II picks up Gendo's fallen glasses. The three clones of Rei stand together.)

He found himself as a person who didn't deserve to be loved by others, and so never put Shinji at the point where he could love his father. By doing so he always hurt Shinji, but he believed it was better. In a way he perfectly represents his own son in that he was running away from reality and others, but the final moment is that he asked for Shinji's forgiveness. He wouldn't do that if he didn't love Shinji...

Who killed Kaji? Well, it was obviously Penpen!

I heard it was a person who worked for neither NERV nor SEELE...?

[Dave]

Those kinds of theories emerge all the time, and some can be a real pain to debate. Some examples include Asuka being a neo-Asuka-Rei-Misato mix at the final scene, and Kaworu being a clone with the soul of Adam...

I hope you're not implying that Kaworu isn't a clone with the soul of Adam...

[Digitalex]

Those kinds of theories emerge all the time, and some can be a real pain to debate. Some examples include Asuka being a neo-Asuka-Rei-Misato mix at the final scene, and Kaworu being a clone with the soul of Adam...

I hope you're not implying that Kaworu isn't a clone with the soul of Adam...

I caught that too. :shock:

[Soluzar]

We each have an interpretation. Needless to say, we cannot both be right. I am wholly against the notion that "everyone's perception of Evangelion's conclusion is different". There are many things within this anime which affect different people differently, but I do not believe that there are two valid interpretations of the ending. There is one. Whether it is mine, or yours, there is only one.

Of course, but we don't know for sure which one, and probably never will.
I'm assuming everyone here has a degree of knowledge that they have already read the debate of "concurrent-alternate" in Eva Otaku, and both views do present some interesting arguments.

Yes, I read the Eva Otaku FAQ, and found it somewhat lacking in intellectual rigour. If you wish to read a truly scholarly analysis of the nature of the endings, then I suggest MDWigs's site. It is the other standard text for English speaking Evangelion fans, on the nature of the ending.

In the long run there is no real reason to debate whether these endings were concurrent or alternate, considering that EoE is the official ending to Evangelion as depicted by the RCB.

Your words make me sad. Whatever the RCB said, both endings are important. How can 44 minutes of Evangelion footage be unimportant when only around 11 hours of footage exist altogether? The RCB is not considered reliable by many fans.

Ad-hominem attacks, no matter how mild and humourous only draw attention to the fact that you are employing diversionary tactics...

Maybe so, but questioning a person's judgment and patronising them isn't particularly neccessary. He could have simply presented the information that such a theory isn't possible and is a very unlikely ideal that would be adopted by Anno.

Shin-Seiki didn't come off as patronising to any great extent to my mind, and in any case, he makes a valid point which you have thus far failed to respond to. Instead of a substantiative response, you chose an ad hominem response. The cut-and-thrust of lively debate is not always quite so pleasant as we might wish, but the important thing is to stay focused on the issues and not on the people.

Watch #26 again, though, I urge you to do so. I would also advise you to be wary of the translation if you are watching the dub. Ask yourself this: Through the various psychodramas presented in the ending, does it not seem to you that Shinji comes ever closer and closer to understanding how he can overcome the interpersonal problems that affected him in the real world, to the point where he would have wished to return.

Well after the ever-increasing number of debates that are arriving in deadlocks recently, I feel compelled to watch the whole series a second time (third if we exclude the movies). I'll get around to it during the holidays, as I'm currently engaged in exams.

I think you should read what MDWigs has to say before you form your theories any further. He gives a breakdown of the endinds more detailed than any other I know of.

[rip3mwk]

Those kinds of theories emerge all the time, and some can be a real pain to debate. Some examples include Asuka being a neo-Asuka-Rei-Misato mix at the final scene, and Kaworu being a clone with the soul of Adam...

I hope you're not implying that Kaworu isn't a clone with the soul of Adam...

I caught that too. :shock:

Plus we all know that Asuka is only Asuka (no mixture here) in the EoE ending (obvious blue eyes).

[Gazdakka Gizbang]

I caught that too. :shock:

Seeing as you've already been there Digiex, go to trivialbeing and look up "Eva 00?" You'll see what I mean, probably observe the last 3 pages to see what we arrived at...

On that note Soluzar also says in his post that the RCB is considered unreliable by many fans, so whichever conclusion you arrive to depends on how reliable you think the RCB is.

Your words make me sad. Whatever the RCB said, both endings are important. How can 44 minutes of Evangelion footage be unimportant when only around 11 hours of footage exist altogether? The RCB is not considered reliable by many fans.

I'm not saying it's unimportant, I'm merely saying that EoE was the official conclusion to the show. Episode 26 can be regarded as important by anyone if they wish to see it that way, and it was also Anno's originally-intended conclusion, so it bears some level of significance, even if its budget was cut.

Shin-Seiki didn't come off as patronising to any great extent to my mind, and in any case, he makes a valid point which you have thus far failed to respond to. Instead of a substantiative response, you chose an ad hominem response. The cut-and-thrust of lively debate is not always quite so pleasant as we might wish, but the important thing is to stay focused on the issues and not on the people.

But precisely who was he talking to?

(By the same token; I always want to ask people who interpret #26' I Neeed You as "Shinji and Asuka are the last two people on earth [the new Adam and Eve ], and everyone else is dead and/or never coming back": Did you watch the movie with the sound turned down? Or did the words of Rei and Yui about everyone being able to come back just disappear down a memory hole?!)

Now you could take that as either directing his comment towards me or the Adam-Eve fans, or both. In any case he could have simply said this:

"(By the same token; I always want to ask people who interpret #26' I Neeed You as "Shinji and Asuka are the last two people on earth [the new Adam and Eve ], and everyone else is dead and/or never coming back": But what of the words of Rei and Yui about everyone being able to come back? Doesn't that contradict the Adam-Eve theory?)"

*Patronisation not included*

Now I believe that arguing over Shin-seiki's comments is at an end, as it is unneccessary, and besides, people approach arguments in their own ways. Adding to that I wasn't coming off as "ad-hominem" as you have been implying over the last few posts of yours. What I said was an abstract joke that didn't attempt to debate or denote anyone if you would kindly refer to which particular topic we were discussing (I was supporting him against the Adam-Eve theory). I guess the sense of humour in this place well and truly died a long time ago.....

I think you should read what MDWigs has to say before you form your theories any further. He gives a breakdown of the endinds more detailed than any other I know of.

I've been skimming over his comments every year or so, but I suppose I'll examine it in a little more detail when I get around to it....

[Digitalex]

I caught that too. :shock:

Seeing as you've already been there Digiex, go to trivialbeing and look up "Eva 00?" You'll see what I mean, probably observe the last 3 pages to see what we arrived at...

On that note Soluzar also says in his post that the RCB is considered unreliable by many fans, so whichever conclusion you arrive to depends on how reliable you think the RCB is.

Yep. I'm going to revisit that thread. The more I dig to find my version of truth the more appealing NGE becomes. I already have certain preconceptions after my first pass of the series that would take colossal evidence to sway me otherwise.

BTW, it's great seeing you here GG. It should be fun seeing you go at it with some of the folks in these parts.

[Gazdakka Gizbang]

Yep. I'm going to revisit that thread. The more I dig to find my version of truth the more appealing NGE becomes. I already have certain preconceptions after my first pass of the series that would take colossal evidence to sway me otherwise.

Great. It's good to see there are still some people that prefer to formulate their own conclusions based on what they have seen rather than just following...

BTW, it's great seeing you here GG. It should be fun seeing you go at it with some of the folks in these parts.

Thanks a lot for the support. I'll get around to more debating in these forums, though I might be absent from here and Trivialbeing for a few days soon :cry: . University examinations are inexplicably close, and I do not intend to repeat my subjects and waste a year as a result... The maximum time I might be away for is about 2 weeks, but I will definitely return to this and do my best to keep going at Trivialbeing. So many interesting points to debate about........

[Shin-seiki]

I caught that too. :shock:

Seeing as you've already been there Digiex, go to trivialbeing and look up "Eva 00?" You'll see what I mean, probably observe the last 3 pages to see what we arrived at...

I checked that thread out, and now my head hurts. It was really something else to see people deeply and seriously discussing the Naoko/Unit-00 deal, which is, over on the AN Eva forum (and probably here too, for the most part), considered an entirely defunct and exploded theory; MDWigs drove a stake thru its heart three years or so ago, and no-one takes it the least bit seriously anymore. It's more or less regarded as a shibboleth of n00bism... Anyway, Unit-00 soul is Rei I (or a facimile thereof), and Kaworu's soul is Adam.

On that note Soluzar also says in his post that the RCB is considered unreliable by many fans, so whichever conclusion you arrive to depends on how reliable you think the RCB is.

I take the RCB very seriously myself, and, with the exception of a very few obvious errors where it is contradicted by the evidence in the series itself, I feel it deserves to be regarded as canon.