TV series ending

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TV series ending

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Postby JinKazama » Fri May 13, 2005 5:51 am

As a matter of fact I found that most eva fans tend to like the movie ending better. But as for me I would prefer the the original ending namely the TV series ending. Its because I've realized that the creator of Eva he was reluctant to remake the ending for Eva as in the movie ending I can get a feel that it was some kind of revenge that he made towards those who didn't like the TV series ending which was intended to be what he think Eva should be.

I could synpathize with those who like Eva but dont like the original ending, but as myself for the first time watching eva and after watching it I instantly felt the artistic and philosophical depth of the anime(before I would never expect an anime could have such things as its theme). It's hard to explain, but every once in a while in watching some of the episodes and especially in the (original) ending of Eva, I could find a lot of things I can relate to, especially the parts where involved the mind's self-reflection process of some of the characters.

Last thing I would like to put, if some of you couldn't get the hang of it in the original ending, you would propabaly need to get some books to read, I'd recommend reading philosophy books concerning exsitentialism or idealism, after that you will find it much easier to grasp what Eva was intended to mean.


to make it more understandable, imagine the third impact is like an artificial mean of making "it" happen, while the deep thoughts Shinji had in the last two TV episodes would be a natural way of making "it" happen, in a subconcious way. One way of making "it" happen is through physical efforts, while the other way involves solely the mind. the reason why I used the word "it" was because I still dont know how to define "it" in words. :roll: "transcendence"?
Last edited by JinKazama on Fri May 13, 2005 9:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Ryo » Fri May 13, 2005 8:15 am

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JinKazama wrote:But as for me I would prefer the the original ending namely the TV series ending

Houston, we have a problem..
Asuka > Rei

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Postby Shwiggie » Fri May 13, 2005 3:21 pm

I liked both the original and theatrical ending...which are really the same things, just told differently. In the same vein as the plot of the show, they "complemented" each other.

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Postby Digitalex » Fri May 13, 2005 8:22 pm

Shwiggie wrote:I liked both the original and theatrical ending...which are really the same things, just told differently. In the same vein as the plot of the show, they "complemented" each other.


I agree. They were both heading towards the same conclusion with different perspectives and time frames. I just watched D/C Genesis Reborn and noticed something I missed the first time around.

People have been stating that it was two different endings. Some say he accepted Complementation in the series. I don't believe he did, especially after I heard him say, "Thank you father, good-bye mother...and congratulations [to his friends]..." Good-bye mother? Why would he say good-bye to his mother if he accepts complementation then? That gave me further belief he was on his way back to the beach to work it out with Asuka. :wink:

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Postby AchtungAffen » Sat May 14, 2005 3:57 am

PRobably they aim to the same ending, but it's my belief that both endings are alternative realities that cannot be joined, only touch themselves on small points.
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Postby ObsessiveMathsFreak » Sat May 14, 2005 2:42 pm

But isn't the TV ending psycadelic enough to be considered a concurrent dreamlike sate with EoE. Of course I haven't seen them yet put soon..

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Re: TV series ending

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Postby thewayneiac » Sat May 14, 2005 9:42 pm

JinKazama wrote:As a matter of fact I found that most eva fans tend to like the movie ending better. But as for me I would prefer the the original ending namely the TV series ending. Its because I've realized that the creator of Eva he was reluctant to remake the ending for Eva as in the movie ending I can get a feel that it was some kind of revenge that he made towards those who didn't like the TV series ending which was intended to be what he think Eva should be.

I could synpathize with those who like Eva but dont like the original ending, but as myself for the first time watching eva and after watching it I instantly felt the artistic and philosophical depth of the anime(before I would never expect an anime could have such things as its theme). It's hard to explain, but every once in a while in watching some of the episodes and especially in the (original) ending of Eva, I could find a lot of things I can relate to, especially the parts where involved the mind's self-reflection process of some of the characters.

Last thing I would like to put, if some of you couldn't get the hang of it in the original ending, you would propabaly need to get some books to read, I'd recommend reading philosophy books concerning exsitentialism or idealism, after that you will find it much easier to grasp what Eva was intended to mean.


This business about EOE being "Anno's Revenge" is a myth someone on the internet made up. It's actually the way he intended to end the series, but he wasn't able to do so for budget and censorship reasons.
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Postby anatrok » Mon May 16, 2005 12:57 pm

I finnaly saw the last three episodes....and I was disapointed.....I feal I was jiped into buying something that on the surface (ie-the first 24 episodes) was what I wanted but underneath (ie-episodes 25 and 26) was completely different and not what I wanted at all...and I think i'm going to pretend the series ends at eps. 24...man I want my money back.....

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Postby Mr. Tines » Mon May 16, 2005 1:09 pm

anatrok wrote:I think i'm going to pretend the series ends at eps. 24...man I want my money back.....


There's a lot of fanfic that makes that assumption - refuses to acknowledge the ending that we were given. The last two episodes were indeed completely different to what went before; but they concentrate on the real matter at hand. There's always EoE for the exterior world version of what happened.

You might find this illuminating

http://www.animenation.net/forums/showthread.php?t=173531
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Postby Gazdakka Gizbang » Thu May 19, 2005 9:33 am

anatrok wrote:I finnaly saw the last three episodes....and I was disapointed.....I feal I was jiped into buying something that on the surface (ie-the first 24 episodes) was what I wanted but underneath (ie-episodes 25 and 26) was completely different and not what I wanted at all...and I think i'm going to pretend the series ends at eps. 24...man I want my money back.....


It didn't suck all THAT much, just that EoE was better. :D

*Moving one of my earlier posts from a sister EVA forum*

The movie was technically the "happy ending", as Shinji Ikari had decided to finally stand his ground and face reality rather than run away to a false paradise and escape it by doing so.

The series was the sad ending, because Shinji had no choice in deciding the future at all, looking like a mere medium or figurehead which Instrumentality acted upon, while Gendo secretly pullled all the strings in the background.


Different perception someone else offered: The series: He accepts himself the way that he is and tries to find happiness on his own with other people... no false realities and stuff like that...

A: You must be thinking very hypocritically to say that there were no false realities at the end of the series. Why? Because I seriously doubt that reality would involve the entire Evangelion cast standing on a representation of the Earth whilst all saying "Congratulations!". No reality would be so accepting anyway.

Think of it this way: he accepted Third Impact and thus became part of the Ultimate Being, which means he won't really get to love himself or anyone for that matter, now that he's dissolved into L.C.L and been thrown into following someone else's plans (i,e: Gendo). It looks like he has the decision, but in truth he doesn't, it's an illusion that was made to make him "feel" in control, similar to Matrix philosophy, only with a better ending and no cliffhangers.


I still like the series ending for its artistic and philosophical properties, but it never really felt like it did Shinji and many of the other characters any justice...

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Postby Soluzar » Thu May 19, 2005 11:59 am

Gazdakka Gizbang wrote:The movie was technically the "happy ending", as Shinji Ikari had decided to finally stand his ground and face reality rather than run away to a false paradise and escape it by doing so.
The same thing happened in both endings.
The series was the sad ending, because Shinji had no choice in deciding the future at all, looking like a mere medium or figurehead which Instrumentality acted upon, while Gendo secretly pullled all the strings in the background.
Explain what gave you this impression? I think it's worth exploring what specifically gave you this impression, and what gave you the impression that there are two separate versions of events. Some people believe that, but it just doesn't seem creditable to me.
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Postby Reichu » Thu May 19, 2005 12:37 pm

Shinji: This is the truth.
The result of everything, is this?

Asuka: Out of many truths, this is one.

Misato: That's the result you wanted.

Shinji: I wanted?

Rei: Yes.
Destruction, the world where nobody was saved.

Shinji: NO. It's that nobody saved me.

Ritsuko: Nobody can save you.

Ryouji: This is what you wanted.

Asuka: Destruction, Death, the return to nothingness,
All of these did you wish for.

Misato: This is reality.

Shinji: What's reality?

Rei: Your world.

Makoto: With time, with space, with other people, a world of
your own.

Shigeru: The world where how to accept things and how to
perceive things is absolutely up to you.

Maya: It's your world, only given to you now,


That is reality.


Misato: Your world, which nobody else can deal with.

Shinji: It's the world where everything is already created,
isn't it?

Ritsuko: No, it's the world that you are creating.

Fuyutsuki: The world that you are trying to create.


That is reality.


Misato: The will to live.

Asuka: The mind that wishes to die, which you yourself want.

Shinji: This darkness, this incomplete world...
Are you saying, I wished for all of these?

Asuka: Yes.

Ryouji: The closed world where nobody but you are confortable.
That is the very world you wished for.

Makoto: To protect your weak mind.

Shigeru: To protect your joy.

Maya: This is the result.

Misato: In a closed space with nobody but you in it,
Nobody can live.

Asuka: But you wanted this world, a closed world for yourself.

Ritsuko: Excluding what you hate, you wanted a world of solitude.
A mind all your own.

Rei: This is your world delivered, with a small haven in your
mind.

Asuka: This is one of the conclusions.

Misato: The end of the world that you have lived in.


I am curious, though... In what ways is the 'world' they are describing here the same thing Shinji got in EoE and decided he didn't want?
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Postby Soluzar » Thu May 19, 2005 1:32 pm

Reichu wrote:I am curious, though... In what ways is the 'world' they are describing here the same thing Shinji got in EoE and decided he didn't want?


Eh? I thought you supported the "one ending/two interpretations" theory. My gut reaction is that the two instrumentality sequences can be joined to form one seamless whole, but I haven't watched EoTV in a while, so I'll hold off on commenting for now.
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Postby Reichu » Thu May 19, 2005 3:48 pm

Soluzar wrote:Eh? I thought you supported the "one ending/two interpretations" theory. My gut reaction is that the two instrumentality sequences can be joined to form one seamless whole, but I haven't watched EoTV in a while, so I'll hold off on commenting for now.


I do, but a conversation with Aaron made me want to go back and reanalyze things a little bit. I certainly don't mind reconsidering my positions now and again.
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Postby thewayneiac » Thu May 19, 2005 9:35 pm

You'll have to tell us what Aaron said that made you want to reconfirm your conclusions.
Rejoice, glory is ours. Our young men have not died in vain. Their graves need no flowers. The tapes have recorded their names.
I am all there is.
Negative! Primative! Limited! I let you live.
But I gave you life.
What else could you do?
To do what was right.
I'm perfect, are you?

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Postby Soluzar » Thu May 19, 2005 10:48 pm

Wait, wait, let me guess. Was it..."This theory SUCKS!" :)
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Postby Shin-seiki » Thu May 19, 2005 11:18 pm

Soluzar wrote:
Reichu wrote:I am curious, though... In what ways is the 'world' they are describing here the same thing Shinji got in EoE and decided he didn't want?


Eh? I thought you supported the "one ending/two interpretations" theory. My gut reaction is that the two instrumentality sequences can be joined to form one seamless whole, but I haven't watched EoTV in a while, so I'll hold off on commenting for now.
I'm all for the concurrency of the two endings, at least as regards the 'big picture' (Shinji rejects Complementaion in both, of course), but seamless is probably the last word that I would to describe the connection between EoTV and EoE...

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Postby Soluzar » Thu May 19, 2005 11:40 pm

Shin-seiki wrote:
Soluzar wrote:
Reichu wrote:I am curious, though... In what ways is the 'world' they are describing here the same thing Shinji got in EoE and decided he didn't want?


Eh? I thought you supported the "one ending/two interpretations" theory. My gut reaction is that the two instrumentality sequences can be joined to form one seamless whole, but I haven't watched EoTV in a while, so I'll hold off on commenting for now.
I'm all for the concurrency of the two endings, at least as regards the 'big picture' (Shinji rejects Complementaion in both, of course), but seamless is probably the last word that I would to describe the connection between EoTV and EoE...


The "big picture" as you put it is important, Shinji does reject complementation in both. My idealistic desire is that the ending can be seen as one harmonious whole, with EoTV and EoE both depicting approximately the same events. I appreciate that there are likely to be divergences. I think that it's going to be a future project for me to determine exactly where those divergences occur. Inquiring minds need to know.
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Postby Gazdakka Gizbang » Fri May 20, 2005 8:25 am

Considering I've only had 2 hours sleep and just went through 9 hours of University, I am hardly in the condition to answer this :P. But what the heck, here goes...

Shinji does reject complementation in both


Now what makes you think that? In Episode 26 of the TV series, he plays along to practically every little voice that interacts with his mind, and we barely hear anything that resembles his own free will. His sudden realisation to begin loving others and to break the barrier he had shut himself off in is uncannily similar to the way all the NERV staff "die" in EoE: they accept what they see because it is what they desire, hence they let down their A.T Fields (i,e: ego) and subsequently burst into L.C.L. Of course had he continued to live within his closed-off world he still would have been forced into Complementation anyway, much like Shigeru's "death", but we also know that in EoE the decision does boil down to Shinji, as Fuyutsuki himself says it.

For Episode 26 however, Shinji looks more like he is at the same level as anyone else: a person waiting in line to be manipulated for Complementation, as the choice for watching his case seemed just the same as seeing anyone else, and the way both the minds interacted with him and the dialogue appeared made Shinji's opinion seem much less significant. Episode 26 seemed to encapsulate that anyone can make the world what they wish it to be, whereas EoE seemed to emphasise, "No, this is Shinji's decision and his decision alone, not anyone else's", a case of total irony in which the antagonist that is continuously frowned upon by others is able to decide their fate.

The barrier (i,e: theatre) in which we see the main turmoil occurring within Shinji's mind is representative of his own A.T. Field: a world in which he is closed off from others and takes the shape of whatever he chooses. But when he decides to leave this personal world and meet with others and so forth in his happy-little-joy-moment, what happens? The room completely cracks apart and, much like the drug-induced hallucinations a crackhead would perceive, all the EVA cast magically appear out of nowhere and start congratulating him on top of a mural representative of the Earth. Does that even represent what could be defined as reality? I seriously doubt it, resembles more of a perpetual Limbo...

Once he decided to seek out what he desired, his A.T Field cracks apart and Complementation is complete. The collective of Humanity has accepted Complementation and in doing so have reached a state of "paradisaical happiness", having finally removed the void which all humans had possessed since the dawn of time. This ecstatic happiness does not reflect reality, but what was achieved through Complementation.

EoE on the other hand is different. For starters in this case Rei rejects Gendo and decides to go to Shinji. Since this occurred Gendo was never able to reunite himself with Yui, but in Episode 26 we see Gendo beside Yui. This means that Instrumentality would have occurred to Gendo's liking, as it turned out the way he had wished it to be.

In EoE's instance we know for certain that Shinji did reject Complementation, as his words before the destruction of the White Being are that he "wanted to see them (everyone in Evangelion) all again, because at least in the time he spent with them he knew that the feelings he experienced were real". He is aware that living in reality would still cause him pain, and that he would continue to endure the harshness of reality, yet it is better than living in a world which is artificial and does not represent the world in which he knows real things exist.

Of course the concurrency and counterargument for it is something which has been argued over for quite some time, but it is best for one to arrive at their own conclusions for the series so long as they remain satisfied with the show (and so long as it's not outrageously unpractical. Someone I know translates EoE's ending to: everyone except two people die, The End. :?)...

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Postby Shin-seiki » Fri May 20, 2005 8:57 am

I've always been perplexed, to put it mildly, how anyone can get the idea that Shinji is accepting Complementation in #26; it seems to me like a theory that one could only come up with if one watches the episode with the sound turned down throughout. (By the same token; I always want to ask people who interpret #26' I Neeed You as "Shinji and Asuka are the last two people on earth [the new Adam and Eve :roll: ], and everyone else is dead and/or never coming back": Did you watch the movie with the sound turned down? Or did the words of Rei and Yui about everyone being able to come back just disappear down a memory hole?!)
I notice that people that argue the "Shinji is accepting Complementation" notion never bother with quotes to back up that interpretation, which is hardly surprising, since everything that is said in #26, without exception, points to the opposite conclusion. I once saw someone try to explain away Misato's "Considering that, the real world itself is not always bad", with some torturous argument that "real world" means something else besides, well, real world... it was sort of pathetic.
The whole idea is completely untenable if one bothers to pay the slightest attention to what is actually said and shown in #26.
Last edited by Shin-seiki on Fri May 20, 2005 10:37 am, edited 2 times in total.


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