What Now in terms of Children 2 & 3...Post-3I thoughts!

[Bagheera]

She didn't have any moral qualms about killing them, why would she have them about bringing them back? Besides, even if that wasn't her original intention why can't she change her mind later?

I was only joking about it being motivated by boredom, as I said earlier. A far more likely motivation is concern for Shinji after he's clearly snapped.

She certainly can un-make them, and If anybody can do it it's her. She's a seed of life after all... making things live is pretty much her job description.

Nothing says she can make a soul imagine itself in its heart. If she could do that so easily why not just bring everyone back to begin with?

[Muphrid]

The idea that Rei could compel someone to emerge from the LCL sea and assume tangible form again is dissatisfying at best.

That she could persuade them to do so, and play a pivotal role in their acceptance of physical form again, seems entirely possible.

[symbv]

And if Rei was bringing people back, it'd only make sense if she'd return to people/Asuka to their death-sites... Which, doesn't exactly exist anymore since Hakone was the epicenter of 3I. So yeah. Again, Rei bringing people back goes against the narrative of people having to return of their own free will, and Last A actually shows Asuka returning on her own instead of just being dropped off on the beach.

Asuka lying there like dead does not seem to me she actually had the strength to swim ashore. And Shinji not noticing her walking or crawling ashore is also a bit strange.

My interpretation is: Asuka re-emerged out of her own will (or, my LAS mind thinking has it, she emerged first as she resonated the strongest with Shinji ;-) ) but Rei put her next to Shinji because she wanted to get Shinji and Asuka to start interacting and head into the new ear together as soon as possible. I don't see why we cannot have the best of both views (Asuka emerge out of her own will and Rei helping here and there) -- it has always been my interpretation since I first watched EoE >14 years ago. And this fits in with Rei appearing near Shinji/Asuka watching over them -- here my interpretation is that she is real not imaginary. And because of that I never think long time went past between Shinji coming back and and the ending scene -- in fact I thought very little time had passed.

And what is Last A ?

[NemZ]

[url]http://www.evamonkey.com/writings_wignall02.php[/url]

[symbv]

In this case I do not think we can argue what happened in EoE ending with Last A. They may mean something quite different in Last B, with the body washed ashore or dumped, so they can also mean what happened in EoE to be quite different from what happened in Last A.

[Bagheera]

Asuka lying there like dead does not seem to me she actually had the strength to swim ashore. And Shinji not noticing her walking or crawling ashore is also a bit strange.

My interpretation is: Asuka re-emerged out of her own will (or, my LAS mind thinking has it, she emerged first as she resonated the strongest with Shinji ;-) ) but Rei put her next to Shinji because she wanted to get Shinji and Asuka to start interacting and head into the new ear together as soon as possible. I don't see why we cannot have the best of both views (Asuka emerge out of her own will and Rei helping here and there) -- it has always been my interpretation since I first watched EoE >14 years ago. And this fits in with Rei appearing near Shinji/Asuka watching over them -- here my interpretation that she is real not imaginary. And because of that I never think long time went past after Shinji came back and the ending -- in fact I thought very little time had passed.

That tends to be my interpretation as well.

And what is Last A ?

One of two alternate endings to the series/EoE. They never made it past the storyboard stage, as I recall.

[Sailor Star Dust]

Last A and Last B were only in a script-format I believe, not a storyboard. Regardless, it was never officially released so who knows.

And by the way, that hand that Shinji is holding in Last B is supposed to be Rei's arm from earlier in the film. (Remember when her arm fell off in front of Gendo?) Sick, huh? I mean, I guess Rei wanted to reassure Shinji but it was in that twisted and creepy Rei-ish way of hers (see also EoE) but...

Your interpretation, symbv, works quite nicely I think, but the visuals and Shinji's actions (putting up gravemarkers for the cast http://www.evacommentary.org/episode-m26/episode-m26-scene12.html and http://www.evamonkey.com/writings_wignall02.php ) only make sense if some amount of time passed. It wouldn't even have to be 5 months, only something like 2 weeks, given how he acts/the moon's position/whatever else was debated before.

Here: http://forum.evageeks.org/viewtopic.php?t=2270 and http://forum.evageeks.org/viewtopic.php?t=4961

[Bagheera]

at the risk of derailing thread: dude what

the better part of the unpleasantness only happens thanks to all those assholes, in what way is it "happier" for them to be alive

I'm not talking about SEELE, I'm talking about everyone else.

[Azathoth]

I'm not talking about SEELE, I'm talking about everyone else.

Maybe I'm stealing NemZ's custom title here, but I feel like my objection still kind of stands

[Bagheera]

Maybe I'm stealing NemZ's custom title here, but I feel like my objection still kind of stands

If your good end depends on humanity being wiped out I think it's kinda meaningless. Me, I count it as a win if everyone killed by the Angels, along with Kaji and the NERV staff killed in the JSSDF's invasion and maybe even Asuka's mother and whoever was in Unit 03 (and Misato and Ritsuko and etc &c), get a chance to come back to life.

[Viking]

If your good end depends on humanity being wiped out I think it's kinda meaningless. Me, I count it as a win if everyone killed by the Angels, along with Kaji and the NERV staff killed in the JSSDF's invasion and maybe even Asuka's mother and whoever was in Unit 03 (and Misato and Ritsuko and etc &c), get a chance to come back to life.

Is Yui part of your scenario as well? Just because it's nearly identical to mine.

Bye

[NemZ]

I've come to realize that, if people come back as Yui says they can, and if the logistics issues don't result in mass chaos and such, NGE ends up giving us a ridiculously happy ending.

Heh, good luck with that. If that's the case I expect some full-on Mad Max shit for generations to come.

[Bagheera]

Heh, good luck with that. If that's the case I expect some full-on Mad Max shit for generations to come.

Why? Don't forget that a ton of the urban engineering tech in NGE is fully automated; if they can manage to make telescoping buildings that tells me the tech base for the setting is a lot higher than it is in the real world. If people come back in dribs and drabs food supply won't be an issue, and power probably isn't much of one either. I'm not seeing much in the way of catastrophic possibilities here.

While it's true that nothing says that level of tech is necessarily global it's nonetheless probably proliferated a fair bit if so many other cities (Nagano, Beijing, Berlin, Boston, and some place in Nevada at the very least, and probably Moscow, Paris, London, and anywhere else heavily influenced by the SEELE committee) are able to build and maintain Evangelions. Add to that the incredible rates of recovery and repair, the seeming lack of reliance on non-renewable resources, the (probable) lack of significant damage outside of Tokyo-3 (tsunamis in the Western U.S. notwithstanding, which might or might not be an issue given that coastal cities were almost certainly obliterated in the wake of 2I already) and of course the global abundance of LCL and I'm not seeing much in the way of a resource problem.

So with abundant resources, lots of automation, plenty of knowhow, plenty of space, no imminent alien invasion . . . what exactly are people gonna fight about again?

[NemZ]

Dude, if the entire world just vanished for a month and left all out technology to it's own devices there would be TONS of shit gone completely wrong. Tokyo-3 is without a doubt the most advanced place on earth, and with the possible exceptions of the other magi instalations we should expect automation to be nowhere near as capable.

On top of that the social structures and economy would be utterly fraged by the lack of organizations and randomness of people coming back. How is any sort of market supposed to operate with all the means of transportation undoubtedly trashed, production facilities unmanaged and unstaffed, no easy access to funds to purchase anything, and central governments & banking institutions no longer present to regulate currency? You've got people dragging themselves out of the ocean in random locations around the world, most of them woefully unequipped to survive without the social structures of modern life. People that really weren't doing that well even before the all this happened on account of still recovering from the devastation of 2nd impact.

And on top of that there's also the actual damage caused by 3rd impact, what with GNR cross-blasting every square mile or so of the entire surface of the earth. Between that, the mega tsunami, crashes of every vehicle that was in operation at the time, and damage to other machinery, equipment and processes that weren't properly monitored (hell, just think of all the damn drug lab explosions) and any resulting fires and such that might come from them without emergency services there's going to be a LOT of damage. Thus it's even more unlikely that those who come back will have anything waiting for them that's anywhere near operable.

So yeah, people coming back will be facing a lot of scarcity with no standing organizations to relieve the pressure with aid or mitigate disputes. Now look at how fast areas hit by major disasters or public unrest can devolve to mob rule, looting and the like even WITH these things in place and ask how society would fair without them.

[Bagheera]

Ack. Since it's off-topic I'll skip the argument and leave off with this: the world of NGE somehow managed to survive 2I. This was an event that DESTROYED ANTARCTICA. The impact of that catastrophe is incalculable -- it would make Rei's wave look like a ripple in a pond by comparison (seriously, first it blows up and then there's a continent-sized hole in the planet. We've gone way beyond tsunamis at that point, and I honestly think the show dramatically undersold the impact (ha ha) of the event), and the effect on food stores would be devastating (it would pretty much destroy oceanic ecosystems around the world, which would destroy fish stocks, which would lead to famine on a colossal scale; losing half the world's population in such a scenario is probably optimistic). Somehow the U. N. and GEHIRN/NERV managed to bring the world back from that. I don't know how, but they did. What I do know, for certain, is that any organization that could do that could easily, easily deal with the chaos resulting from 3I. Yes, a disruption in services/infrastructure/etc is bad, but it's not in the same league as the destruction caused by 2I. It's not even close.

[Alaska Slim]

Only the strong and understanding will return, and I doubt every single builder, engineer, doctor and so forth will remain in the big ol' LCL puddle. The knowledge of the past will survive and be passed on. In time the society of old may be regained, though I think the people returning from the Egg could do better than our world's societies.

While I wouldn't deny the possible groundwork for a Global "Greatest Generation", that's really the thing, it be just for that generation, just for those individuals who were there to experience it. That is unless you think it can be passed on as some "racial memory" or some such.


Lessons were learned, but in time, they'd be forgotten again by those who come after them. The understanding Humanity grasped during Instrumentality would fragment and decay, eventually into nothing but condensed platitudes and anecdotes.

Hell, maybe a think tank or two would rise up to try and recapture the lesson in some form, but um... Presuming these groups did gain influence in the society, I think that would just leave history, as it always has, doomed to repeat itself.

[NemZ]

I love this thread. It's probably my favorite steaming mess in the whole forum. So many quotable moments of utter hopelessness and impassioned butthurt.

[Reichu]

I love this thread. It's probably my favorite steaming mess in the whole forum. So many quotable moments of utter hopelessness and impassioned butthurt.

Got sick of contributing to the thread?

[NemZ]

It's a meta-contribution. Seeing it bumped after such a long haiatus prompted me to give it another read. Good times, especially so many gems from Tines at his cantankerous best.

[Great Genius Shinji-Sama]

@Slim: Probably, but I can't help but to think of Kaworu and Rei's message during Shinji's return from LCL. Finding your own voice,etc even if it becomes lost in other peoples', acting of your own free will. /0.02/