Rei turning everyone into LCL analogous to the Rapture?

[SawItAtAge10]

I think this idea has some merit if you take into account Anno's use of other Biblical references (there are MANY) in NGE.

The way the Rapture is depicted in other movies by having all of the Christians suddenly vanish and leave a pile of clothes behind.This is somewhat similar to they way "raptures" people into the Egg of Lilith by turning them into LCL and leaving their clothes behind.

[Dataprime]

But didn't Anno say that all the Biblical references are their just for the show to look cool?
Because Christianity isn't too big in Japan he put it in Eva since it isn't well known.
Don't look in to it that much. Just enjoy the big explosions

[SawItAtAge10]

I know about the artificial nature of the religous stuff in Eva. I've read that like 100,000,000,000 etc. times in various places and from the original source.

I think that what GNR does with people's souls during 3I and the Biblical Rapture are too similar to ignore that kind of connection.

Also, what about the possibility that the religious stuff is being used because it is inserted artificially into the by showing the dead (as in TERMINAL) nature of artifice (DOGMA) in and of itself.

For example, all of the multitudes of anime that have scrapped away every last piece of Japanese culture in order to create an artificial plot point device for their anime. The symbols of religion and culture have a way of becoming cold and dead as result of being duplicated multiple times for such empty purposes. In the process, they become something ultimately cheap and disposable.

(Hmmm..Sounds a little like Rei. Especially if you consider that Bakelite (as mentioned in Eoe) is a kind of plastic. This, correlated to the fact that Rei is likened to a doll on multiple occasions throughout the series. It's as if she was destined to become nothing more than a giant barbie doll and the Eva's are action figures. These "toys" become artificial tools with which to communicate deeper ideas about relationships and psychology)

Perhaps artificially using something less common was Anno's way of commenting on that...

Then there's the Christian symbols. Because Christianity is occult in Japan, it's very esoteric in nature in their minds. Thus, the Angels are literally very 'alien" to both characters and the audience. The artifice of Christian symbols becomes the means of conveying real emotions and problems within an artificial world (such as the setting of a cartoon).


Now, Rei's rapture and the Biblical rapture are obviously different in that chosen people (Christians) ascend to heaven in the Bible and Rei is taking everyone's souls without discrimination. What this difference communicates has more to do with the context of the series. But like the rest of the religious stuff in the series, Anno is using the form of an artificially augmented Religious plot device as medium to tell his own story that is removed from religion in itself.

[Reichu]

The Rapture imagery fits so well that I'm sure it was intentional. Oddly, though, I can't seem to remember ever making a conscious connection before, which feels really weird -- all of the NGE-related Rapture jokes I could have made!

Also, what about the possibility that the religious stuff is being used because it is inserted artificially into the by showing the dead (as in TERMINAL) nature of artifice (DOGMA) in and of itself.

I think there is a missing noun here, but even inserting that mentally, I'm not sure what you're trying to get at.

[Atropos]

Would that make SEELE analogous to Harold Camping?

[Chuckman]

It's not analogous to the Rapture, as the Rapture would leave most people behind. It's similar, but not the same. The Rapture is actually one of the earliest things that happens (in some interpretations of) the Christian eschaton.

[Lavinius]

I always assumed that "Terminal Dogma" referred to the ending of the traditional religious dogma that mankind or the Japanese people is descended from Adam or Izanagi (via Amaterasu) and rather that we are filth born from the excrement of the Whore of Babylon, that is, Lilith or Izanami. Though that would more be the "Termination of Dogma..."

[Chuckman]

Terminal Dogma = Final Word
Terminal Dogma = Last Principle
Terminal Dogma = Deadly Truth

[SawItAtAge10]

The Rapture imagery fits so well that I'm sure it was intentional. Oddly, though, I can't seem to remember ever making a conscious connection before, which feels really weird -- all of the NGE-related Rapture jokes I could have made!


I think there is a missing noun here, but even inserting that mentally, I'm not sure what you're trying to get at.

I meant to say being inserted into the series. Sorry, whenever I have a good point make or get really passionate behind a keyboard, I have tendency to type fast and make errors.

[AuraTwilight]

I doubt the Rapture even went through the minds of Anno and company, if only because they dug through apocryphal works for their faux symbolism and the idea of the Rapture as modern Christians think of it didn't exist in any form until the 1830s.

[SawItAtAge10]

What about all of the other ways in which the artificiality of religious symbolism is used because it's artificial as a means of telling the actual substance of the story that I mentioned? What is everyone's thoughts on that?

[Chuckman]

One of the interesting layers of the occult symbolism is that it's another way that Seele is marked out as a faux-Illuminati. The in-universe, purposeful occult symbols are reminiscent of conspiracy theories accusing the Illuminati plastering the All Seeing Eye everywhere.

[Nuclear Lunchbox]

While it's an interesting comparison, I don't think it's the rapture. The rapture is designed to kill everybody that has sinned- and I'm sure plenty of those fuckers were still around on the day that GNR decided to Tang everybody. Instrumentality could be construed as saving everybody. Sending everybody to hell cannot.

[Chuckman]

Everybody sins. No exceptions.

The rapture (which may be an extrabiblical idea) will suck up believers to be judged (going back to its origins as a doctrine) or make the righteous vanish (modern idea). Everybody else stays where they are, so they can do all that fun stuff with the thousand years of rule by Satan and plagues and four horseman and beasts rising out of the sea and whatnot. Nobody is killed. Except the good people are killed in that they're in the afterlife. So it's kind of weird.

[Gob Hobblin]

^

Yeah, it's non-Biblical. The only verse that could remotely apply is 1 Thessalonians 4:17, which is kind of vague on what it means.

The concept was first formulated by Cotton Mathers in the 17th century, with the term 'rapture' coming later. So, a very recent concept.

[Mr. Tines]

The Rapture imagery fits so well that I'm sure it was intentional. Oddly, though, I can't seem to remember ever making a conscious connection before

I must have been remiss back in the day and not actually used the term "techno-rapture" at any point when discussing the endgame as an upload Singularity (or, in the case of EoE, an aborted hard take-off to same), merely linking to sources that would have used the term.

[Reichu]

Mr. Tines: You did indeed use the term "techno-rapture" so many times that it became a permanent part of my vocabulary, but it's one thing for my brain to accept "techno-rapture" as a piece of futurist-nerd lingo and completely another for me to realize I could have been joking about Christians leaving their LCL and clothes behind the last time the Rapture was supposed to have happened (back in Spring 2011).

[Warren Peace]

I feel like fans have in some ways over-corrected when it comes to Eva's relationship with religion. Nobody thinks it's a commentary on Christianity any more, which is a good thing. However, it's not quite the superficial window dressing some consider it to be, either. The show does sometimes use these concepts substantially. For instance: the rapture!

A lot of this stuff was incorporated because it "looked cool", sure. But Anno had a legitimate interest in religious texts, which also comes through. I think that deserves more attention than it gets.

[SawItAtAge10]

That's precisely what I was saying about Anno's use of artifice because it's artificial to tell the substance of the story. In other words, using the religious symbols as a tool both in design (the window dressing) and allegory or metaphor (story), I don't think at any point that the religious elements ever diverge into being literal.

[Chuckman]

I feel like fans have in some ways over-corrected when it comes to Eva's relationship with religion. Nobody thinks it's a commentary on Christianity any more, which is a good thing. However, it's not quite the superficial window dressing some consider it to be, either. The show does sometimes use these concepts substantially. For instance: the rapture!

A lot of this stuff was incorporated because it "looked cool", sure. But Anno had a legitimate interest in religious texts, which also comes through. I think that deserves more attention than it gets.

The symbols aren't Christian, they're occult. Even if you read them perfectly straight the only explicitly Christian symbol is the cross, which is fairly straightforward in its meaning as a symbol of burden/sacrifice.