Was Rei 1 malicious?

[chaosakita]

[Prior reading for those interested can be found here. - Monk]

I don't really get what was supposed to be implied in the scene in episode 21. Was Rei 1 malicious or was she just repeating what she heard Gendou say about Naoko? Or was Naoko imagining the whole thing?

[NemZ]

...or did she say that not out of malice but because Gendo told her to do so?

It's just an open question, no real way to know.

[FreakyFilmFan4ever]

To add to the confusion, Kaworu is reflected in her eye when that scene is replayed in Evangelion: Death. I'm not sure what he had to do with anything (maybe he told her to tell Naoko what Gendo said), but he's in the scene anyway.

[thewayneiac]

To add to the confusion, Kaworu is reflected in her eye when that scene is replayed in Evangelion: Death. I'm not sure what he had to do with anything (maybe he told her to tell Naoko what Gendo said), but he's in the scene anyway.

The only theory that comes close to making sense is that it's Rei 3 appearing as Kaworu to claim Rei 1's soul. (This makes it the equivalent of Rei 2's vision of Gendo as she self-destructs.) This explains the presence of all three Reis in Instrumentality, despite the likelihood that they had been reunited in Rei 3.
But this certainly has its weaknesses. Why appear as Kaworu? Were Adam and Lilith close friends back in the F.A.R. world?

Another theory for Rei's behavior is that she had already had part of her soul split into Unit-00 and had gone crazy as a result.

Gendo told her to is probably the weakest of the theories.

[UrsusArctos]

It's possible that Quantum Rei sent Quantum Kaworu to collect this particular part of her soul for Instrumentality. Kaworu was in GNR, after all, and watching the entire spectacle. Would it be so much for one FAR to ask the other?

[chaosakita]

What does instrumentality have to do with this?

I think maybe it's just more likely that Rei did call Naoko a hag but that Naoko was paranoid and interpreted Rei's words as more malicious than they really were.

[Bagheera]

What does instrumentality have to do with this?

Nothing. People are invested in the idea of Quantum!Rei traveling through time, so they're layering speculation upon speculation to explain something that doesn't require all that much speculation.

I think maybe it's just more likely that Rei did call Naoko a hag but that Naoko was paranoid and interpreted Rei's words as more malicious than they really were.

That is almost certainly the case.

[Rei IV]

I kind of like the idea of Rei I representing the far more unpleasant, dark, and malicious side of the character. Hence why one could interpret Rei's words to have more meaning more than simply parroting what Gendo (allegedly) said. I mean, it's not like she's JUST a little girl or anything. Maybe Naoko could see through the alien nature/non-human nature of the character......or maybe I'm giving a sleazy, old broad credit and attempting to overlook her murder of a child....but Rei, again, isn't just a "child".

[chaosakita]

I think all the talk about souls and quantum physics is really missing the artistic point of the scene. It exists to show mainly that: 1. Rei 1 existed and that she died and 2. Naoko was kinda unhinged, probably due to jealousy.

[Chuckman]

That whole scene is odd. Why was Rei wandering around by herself, anyway?

There's no real way to tell, but I always assumed that scene took place fairly late at night.

[AuraTwilight]

Why appear as Kaworu? Were Adam and Lilith close friends back in the F.A.R. world?

This is my new headcanon.

[thewayneiac]

I think all the talk about souls and quantum physics is really missing the artistic point of the scene. It exists to show mainly that: 1. Rei 1 existed and that she died and 2. Naoko was kinda unhinged, probably due to jealousy.

Certainly it's important to establish how Rei 1 died, in order to understand why Unit-00 behaves as it does, but a scene can make more than one point. Why Rei behaved as she did, and "what's up with that Kaworu reflection in Death" are both valid points for debate.

[Bagheera]

Certainly it's important to establish how Rei 1 died, in order to understand why Unit-00 behaves as it does,

No, it's important to establish that the Rei we know is not the first. Whether and to what extent that has any bearing on Unit 00's behavior is a matter of speculation, not established fact.

but a scene can make more than one point. Why Rei behaved as she did, and "what's up with that Kaworu reflection in Death" are both valid points for debate.

Reading too much into the Death bit is probably a mistake, since that bit wasn't in either the broadcast or DC versions of the show.

[Chuckman]

By all appearances, the Evas are naturally savage regardless of which soul inhabits them if there is a soul inhabiting them.

[Bagheera]

By all appearances, the Evas are naturally savage regardless of which soul inhabits them.

Hmph. Don't lump Kyoko in with those miscreants! She was very well-behaved from start to finish.

[NemZ]

It really is quite hard to match what we know of Yui up with how eva1 acts. Either being in an eva makes you a howling savage or she was always a bit unhinged under her quiet demeanor. For all we know she could be the one who kicked Gendo's ass in that bar fight.

Edit - But as for the actual topic... there's still just no way to know. We don't even know how much of that scene actually happened vs. being just what Naoko saw as she was wigging out. And the Kaworu thing makes NO sense.

[Chuckman]

The Evas are alive. It's pretty clear that they're not simply wearing their armored shells- they're permanently attached, probably directly to the Eva's bones. The armor incorporates a restraint system of nebulous function that's tied into the shoulder pylons somehow.

When Unit Zero goes berserk, we see it clutching its head, and it cries out. The common assumption seems to be that it's pissed off, but what if it's lashing out because it's in pain? It might even be clutching its head because it's trying to rip off the artificial eye that's painfully embedded in its face.

On top of the armor and restraint system, the Evas basically have broken necks with entry plugs shoved in them. That's probably none too pleasant, either. The Evas have all this crap bolted to their bodies, locked into their chests, and they're having electricity pumped into their spine to make them move. Being an Eva is constant pain.

[Kendrix]

I don't think that Rei I blurting that out needs any explanation at all.
No malice, no Gendo, no anything. (Just because he does SOME plotting in the background doesn't mean every single bad thing that ever happened in the universe is singularly his fault. Anything he might have been trying to accomplish could have been accomplished in less roundabout ways; If anything, the fact that he let down his guard/mask around Rei and told her this kind of thing shows how much he trusts her, though he might have forgotten for a moment that he was talking to a little girl, and not an adult like Yui. )
She's a little kid, perhaps with even less life experience/common sense than a regular ones
Little kids are just the most honest beings on the planet; At worst, she may have been a little teasing the way an annoying little sister would be, or she may really have thought that "old hag" was something like Naoko's name.

The way that the little, lifeless arms and Naoko's next reaction shot are arranged, any malice was in her head and she fully realized that.
The one whose neck she REALLY wanted to break was ultimately Yui, I doubt little Shinji would have fared much better if he had run into her in the dark.

That she came to represent "nature"/"creepy scary evil things" in Rei III's inner monolugue is probably just due to the fact that she was the first/the genetic template, hence, becoming the standin for genes.
Since instrumentality doesn't happen untill the next scene, that was probably not literally her.

As for "why Kaworu", if that is, in fact, her transistion guide, and not just there for decoration/not actually in-universe, it would be kind of weird if Rei came to get herself... Or he's deemed someone she'd "come with"/something she wanted because of their similar natures.
Or maybe, having become a transcendent being, Kaworu remembered how the two of them were good friends in the Puchi Eva universe? /silly.

I don't fully believe this, tho, because everyone who died/was collected before the impact got an "untransformed" transistion guide, and this was so much further in the past.


Still, an overlooked aspect of the incident might be Naoko's words: "You can be replaced if you die.", witch Rei II repeats almost verbantim years later; Perhaps those words etched themselves into her as a sort of "echo", comparable to how Rei III cries when she attempts to crush the glasses and retains some slight attachment to Shinji. The first one still acts a lot more like a normal child, lab upbringing or no lab upbringing, but with the second one knowing full well that she's, well, the second, and the implications of that (She probably got lead in a room she hadn't seen before, and told that a piece of cloth in a color she can't stand was her "favorite dress" or something.) this did not bode well for her becoming a happy, healthy individual.


As for what she was doing there: Probably looking for Gendo. In any case, I doubt Rei has ever BEEN to the surface before this day, "night" and "day" would have little meaning to her.

[chaosakita]

Why do people think the Kaworu reflection was literal?

[monitoradiation]

I think Rei 1 was innocently saying what was repeatedly told to her by Gendo, who probably mentioned it offhandedly many times that Naoko would be useless soon and is a "hag".

Rei 1 was lost in NERV but didn't think that Naoko could help her find her way back, and tried to explain to Naoko why she thinks that... (I'm lost... i cant find my way back. but it's ok, you dont have to help me... you can't anyway, because you're a useless old hag...)

Rei 1 wasn't malicious, but the way Gendo must have said it obviously was not of good intent. Naoko read into it correctly as well - that Gendo was just using her to make the Magi supercomputers. Naoko then basically shot the unintended messenger by trying to overcompensate, sort of a "OH YEAH? You're replaceable too, dont think you're so special!"

And yeah we all know what happened...

I do want to think that Rei 1 represents a darker side of Lilith like some fellow posters have suggested. But with the shot angles in that scene and the echos and all that, it seems to me like it was supposed to be a Naoko-view of the encounter.