Where do the angels come from?

[Electreel]

Certainly in EoTV Shinji is told that he can be whatever his imagination can conceive as long as he thinks about it, we can see him being transformed in a myriad of possible forms, from recognizable organisms to some more abstract figures. Apparently angels are physically able to do this just before hatching, rejecting the "human" form.
Also this gave me an idea for an avatar...

[Nuclear Lunchbox]

This idea has been bouncing off the inside of my cranium for quite some time now, and I think it's time it was published.

The words written in Rei's creation room relate to three types of quarks: Top quarks, bottom quarks, and strange quarks. This can be attributed to the ghostly apparitions that Shinji sees during episode one and episode 26', as listed in the Quantum Mechanics section on the Eva wiki. Everything beyond this point is theory and/or guesswork. From this, I have attempted to construe that instead of simply being the building blocks for the protons and neutrons in the atoms that make up Rei's body, quarks play a more prominent part (physics probably says that this isn't possible). I take this to mean that some rudimentary form of teleportation is taking place due to the quark makeup.

During Shamshel's autopsy, they found that the substance that the angel was composed of was incredibly similar to the structure of light. Light is made up of photons, which do not contain quarks; however, both photons and quarks are elementary particles and share some of the same traits.

Rei has a high quark concentration: elementary particles. We have observed some form of teleportation. Angels are made up of something nearly identical to photons. Nobody knows how the angels are getting to earth, much less Tokyo-3.

What if the Angels are teleporting in via some form of quantum mechanics?

[MitsumuraKun51196]

No one sends the Angels. Upon waking up, they come to Tokyo-3 on their own in search of their mother, Adam. Kaworu is the lone exception to this.

Don't you mean Lilith Correct me if i'm wrong

[Reichu]

Don't you mean Lilith Correct me if i'm wrong

Angels 3 through 17 originated from Adam. Time for a rewatch, maybe? ;p

[Monk Ed]

Angels 3 through 17 originated from Adam. Time for a rewatch, maybe? ;p

C'mon now. Clearly what he meant is "You mean they're searching for Lilith, correct?" As in, that which they were seeking was in fact Lilith, whether or not they knew it. Or maybe the implied question is also whether or not they knew that what they were seeking was in fact Lilith.

[Reichu]

Clearly what he meant is

I'm old and easily confused by ambiguous wording.

[KnightmareX13]

I'm old and easily confused by ambiguous wording.

meno....?

[Chuckman]

It's not entirely coherent, but there is an in-universe explanation for the forms of the angels. They're evolving, and they're evolving tactically to the Evas themselves. Each angel represents a response to the means of the previous' defeat.

Sachiel, the first, has a humanoid shape, the most highly adaptable. It has limited flight capabilities, limited hand to hand capabilities, and limited range capabilities. Jack of all trades, master of none.

Since Sachiel's hand to hand attacks were the most successful, the next angel, Shamshel, is adapted for pure hand to hand. It ignores terrain and has very powerful close combat capabilities.

When that fails completely, the next angel is the exact opposite- pure ranged attack. Ramiel is so masterful at preventing close combat and projecting force at a distance that the Eva can't possibly close with it.

Next you have Gaghiel, who is adapted for a highly situational battle. Some of the other angels appear in the water and Sachiel has amphibious qualities, but Gaghiel is a purely naval creature, and it nearly wins- its advantage is being better at working in its environment than the Eva.

When Israfel comes along, all of the other, singular angels, have failed, so this angel can split into two- if, as before, there was only on Eva, it would be better equipped, but the humans are one step ahead and more adaptable, so it loses.

From there, they get more esoteric, but still fit the pattern.

We don't know what Sandalphon's final form would have been without interference, but it looks like it would have been a burrowing angel- if you can't get past the Evas, go under them.

I don't know what the hell Matariel's deal is- that one kind of breaks my pattern, but not really. It's smaller than the others and could have melted its way in to the Eva shafts. A stealth angel?

Sahaquiel is pretty obvious. When you don't have the tactics and gear to defeat the enemy, use a suicide attack. It's pretty common in human history, and would work well here- Sahaquiel's existence, along with the forms of the other angels, implies some sort of cooperation between them, even though they never move together. It would destroy itself so future angels could win.

Iruel is also obvious- big angels aren't getting in, what about a tiny one? Again, it's thwarted by humanity's ability to adapt to a given situation immediately, rather than across generations.

Leliel is weird, but still a change in tactics. A teeny tiny angel failed, so here comes one so big it doesn't fit in the material universe, possibly intending to just swallow the whole base and get in that way.

Bardiel is the next attempt at stealth; taking over one of the enemy is the ultimate form of camouflage, and what beats an Eva? An Eva! Of course, it goes the other way, but still, it's worth a shot.

Zeruel is the last of the truly physical angels, and combines the most successful aspects of the others. It's got Ramiel's ranged power combined with superior close combat capability and pure physical toughness, which is something the others lacked; none of them could truly close with an Eva and survive.

Arael is a reaction to Zeruel's defeat- it's not the Evas themselves that are beating us, it's the human souls within, so let's understand them and find out a way to shut them down. Again, it was working, but the humans pulled out an unplanned wildcard.

Armisael is the perfection of the nonphysical angels. It's smart, it uses Rei as bait to pull Shinji in, knowing that threatening one of the pilots will draw in the others and make them weak. Again, it fails to figure on something- the individuals' resolve, in this case the resolve of an individual who is perfectly willing to sacrifice herself. It can't comprehend self sacrifice, so it loses.

With Kaworu, the pattern is maintained, even though he was explicitly created by humans. He's an infiltrator, he can in theory just walk right in and get past the defenses that way.

Now, one could argue that this progression is simply the creators of the series throwing greater challenges at the characters, but that's a rather reductionist point of view since every story can be boiled down to that point, it's one of the basic conceits of writing fiction. The links between the angel's forms, their timing, etc. are all part of the narrative and are there for a reason. Nothing is there by accident, or just because.

[Reichu]

Well, I suppose there's no particular reason why the various ideas can't be combined.

On the most fundamental level, the Angels' forms could be a reflection of how they see or imagine themselves. This image is further refined by environmental factors and demands, along with information gleaned from the loitering souls of dead Angels.

(And a thought randomly occurred to me... I wonder if one Angel being "active" at a time has something to do with the Angels existing in an environment specialized for Lilith-based lifeforms. There has to be some benefit to an "Adam-based ecosystem" as apparently seen at the South Pole, beyond the inability of Lilith-based life to exist in it...)


This thread needs a more description title at this point.

[A.T. Fish]

Nothing is there by accident, or just because.

I can think of some instances of "just because", of course we'll probably never know this for sure but I think it's pretty safe to assume that Israfel was a double angel because they needed to have Shinji and Asuka work together, Ireul was a way of telling us about Ritsuko's relation with her mother and the whole Magi deal, Bardiel was an Eva hijacker just so the whole "murder a pilot or let the Angel live" dilemma would come up with all the following implications, Arael was a mindfucker just so we could see Asuka's past and understand her inner problems, Kaworu was meant to drain the last bit of hope for Shinji to develop any meaningful relationship with a person, etc. They may have been put in an order that suggests some form of mutually informed cooperative adaptation, as if they operated with a hive mind of sorts, but that's all speculative.

[Chuckman]

Perhaps they're imagining themselves able to beat an Eva, they're just not very good at it, because they don't understand what they're fighting. The final three all being based on interacting with the pilots supports that idea, especially since the most successful one, who actually made it to the endgame and won but decided to die anyway, was the most human.

They don't seem to be able to radically change form, so however they acquire their shape, it sticks. All of the shapeshifting we see is within pre-set parameters.

I took the order of their arrival to be a reflection of their gestation state. The more powerful and larger ones arrived later. That doesn't explain their singular nature, though. Maybe they can't avoid fighting each other? They seem to recognize the Evas as enemies on sight.

It also recontextualizes Kaworu. His narrative purpose in showing Shinji unconditional acceptance still stands, but it's a fake, a fraud, a ruse so he can get to his goal, whether he himself is aware of it or not. Again, this fits with the general pattern. Despite their apparent cruelty, the angels really aren't cruel; they are, at worst, curious.

[evangelist]

I don't think Angels are sent by anyone let alone Seele. I've always viewed the Angels approaching Tokyo 3 as an instinctual behaviour to seek out Adam so they can merge and thereby wipe out all Lilith Based lifeforms.

[Nuclear Lunchbox]

I don't think Angels are sent by anyone let alone Seele. I've always viewed the Angels approaching Tokyo 3 as an instinctual behaviour to seek out Adam so they can merge and thereby wipe out all Lilith Based lifeforms.

The angels are seeking Lilith, not Adam. Besides, destruction of humanity would merely be a byproduct; their true goal is to get to Lilith, regardless of what the consequences of their actions may be.

[Monk Ed]

The angels are seeking Lilith, not Adam. Besides, destruction of humanity would merely be a byproduct; their true goal is to get to Lilith, regardless of what the consequences of their actions may be.

One popular interpretation (of which I am a fan) is that they confuse Lilith for Adam. So they are still "seeking Adam", but without realizing that the "Adam" they seek is actually Lilith.

[Chuckman]

Gaghiel seeks Adam. Gaghiel is therefore the best angel.

[Stryker]

Well, it's also the only angel that manages to body slam and Evangelion, and scare Asuka into bouncing her tits around. That alone is good enough for me.

[Chuckman]

To jiggle the unjiggled, and touch the face of God.

Of course, it doesn't go chasing after Kaji when he takes off in that plane.

Maybe the angels are really attracted to the Evas themselves? Isn't that the fanon for the excuse given to the general public/uninitiated for why they only attack Tokyo-3? "We have to have Evas here or else the angels will attack and... do... something because we have Evas here."

[Nuclear Lunchbox]

If the angels were attracted to the Evas, then Zeruel would have done something other than just pass by Unit-02 by after severing its head. Y'know, like fondle it or something.

[Rahxephon]

I know the angels were spawned from Adam, but when were they spawned from adam? before second impact? where have they been all these years and why do they only start showing up 14 years later?

Where have they been all this time? Some angels seem to advance on NERV from somewhere on earth, just walking there, some swim there, some have even arrived FROM SPACE!

what gives?

Why do they attack one at a time instead of collaborating, combining their forms or powers, or all coming at once? I understand they are nothing like humans and probably dont communicate, but still, i dunno they are so mysterious!

[Dovah]

Unfortunately, the nature of the Angels is probably the most unknown thing in Eva. As we see with Sandalphon and Adam, as bebbies they take an embryonic form which resembles a human.

Most of the Angels are probably birthed on Earth, with the possible exception of a few, such as Sahaquiel. I'm not sure either when their "eggs" were laid either. Honestly I'd love to know more about Angels too, but I'm sure if that's possible.