How do you feel about Shinji ending up with Mari?

[Chroma]

As sure as I am that this was likely mentioned above in the thread, in some way, I almost think that this possible (as it certainly isn't set in stone that they're together) - this possible relationship between Shinji and Mari is the best way that they could've gone about it.

The fandom as a whole has spent nearly 30 years in Asuka v. Rei arguments (with even some Misato on the side) for best girl/as a possible Shinji girlfriend/etc. There are innumerable comments and pages, fics and arguments and discussions about this going back to the time when the show first aired. If Anno really wanted to lay it down that people need to move on with the ending of Thrice, what better way to settle the score than to have Shinji end up with neither (romantically)? There's a line in the film between Asuka and Mari where Asuka mentions that Shinji needs a 'mother rather than a girlfriend', or something along those lines, and really, it's true. And Rei's role throughout Rebuild had been very sibling like, up to and including asking Shinji to give her a name. By the end of the film, he has a solid relationship, founded on mutual love and respect, for both girls (and even a mother, full stop, in Misato).

It's the best end Anno could've given: Shinji, Rei, and Asuka are on equal footing, and understand their places in one another's lives. Giving him Mari - if that's what happened - kind of cements that deal, and offers, in a way, an additional route for this new and hopeful ending for Shinji. It falls a bit flat because Mari is a divisive character, so it may feel a bit weak or self-serving, but I think it's still the right choice in the end.

[Zusuchan]

Shinji ending up with Mari is glorious and I love it, especially how out of nowhere it comes.

[TyroLuuki]

the actual Japanese line is 「もう泣かない」,「泣かない」= "to not cry," 「もう」= now, already, or again. Translations may have chosen "again," but the original has enough nuance to be read as "now [I will not cry]."

もう when used with a negative can be translated as "anymore, no longer". When I first watched the movie I watched it in Japanese without any subtitles so that's how I interpreted that line. I just checked on the Amazon subs and they seem to translate it as "I won't cry anymore" too.

[evaunit13]

Grammar and questionable khara-mandated translations aside, my prior argument still stands. Applying that mindset to another scene: did you think Shinji got over Rei Q's death too quickly?

[TyroLuuki]

did you think Shinji got over Rei Q's death too quickly?

Honestly, him never really mentioning or thinking of her again after her death left a bad taste in my mouth. Same with Misato's death, his stoic reaction to it was unrealistic and unsettling to me. In my opinion it makes their deaths feel more like plot devices to move things forward rather than substantial and emotional moments that have lasting effects on his character.

I'm not saying he has to mope around about them endlessly, I just think the movie could have done more to acknowledge their sacrifices. For example, Shinji's continuous glances at Misato's cross in EoE show she's still in his thoughts, he's finally pushing himself to do something so her death won't be in vain. Likewise in this movie, Misato is still feeling sentimental over Kaji 14 years after his death, she carries around his armband and spends her time in the seed storage area thinking about him. Those are great ways of showing how characters cope and grieve with the deaths of their loved ones, whereas Shinji's reactions to Rei Q and Misato are not. And what I dislike most is those newfound stoic and emotionless traits of his being associated with maturity and Shinji finally "growing up". It's a particularly tone-deaf message to send to an audience of majorly young adults residing in a country with one of the highest suicide rates in the world.

[RussianRiz]

I really appreciate TyroLukki's points, these are things that made me think, really. Thank you.

At this moment, what I can say as counter argument is that I'm not sure I totally agree that Shinji is reacting stoically to all this. He visibly suffers from Misato's sacrifice, and we can see it in his face and expression as he receives the Spear of Gaius, and as he presses it to his face.

SPOILER: Show

Of course things happen at a fast pace, but the film structure doesn't leave much room for exploring a larger reaction. And, at that moment, Shinji should focus on his goal, which, well, implies the future of all humanity. It's not how he reacts that denotes his growth, but how he found new ways to handle his goals. Even sad for Misato, he continues to face his father, because this is the biggest problem this moment, and also the reason why she sacrificed herself.

[Axx°N N.]

SPOILER: Show

did you think Shinji got over Rei Q's death too quickly?

Honestly, him never really mentioning or thinking of her again after her death left a bad taste in my mouth. Same with Misato's death, his stoic reaction to it was unrealistic and unsettling to me. In my opinion it makes their deaths feel more like plot devices to move things forward rather than substantial and emotional moments that have lasting effects on his character.

I'm not saying he has to mope around about them endlessly, I just think the movie could have done more to acknowledge their sacrifices. For example, Shinji's continuous glances at Misato's cross in EoE show she's still in his thoughts, he's finally pushing himself to do something so her death won't be in vain. Likewise in this movie, Misato is still feeling sentimental over Kaji 14 years after his death, she carries around his armband and spends her time in the seed storage area thinking about him. Those are great ways of showing how characters cope and grieve with the deaths of their loved ones, whereas Shinji's reactions to Rei Q and Misato are not. And what I dislike most is those newfound stoic and emotionless traits of his being associated with maturity and Shinji finally "growing up". It's a particularly tone-deaf message to send to an audience of majorly young adults residing in a country with one of the highest suicide rates in the world.

Agree. Shin begins fast and glossing over things (their trek through the wasteland a one-minute montage), but it feels like it really starts snowballing right when Rei pops. Nothing is given time to breathe, sink in, or feel like it has gravity, and I stop feeling anything for Shinji's character. It's not so much his turn of face or resolve that's the problem, it's how rapid and restricted it is.

Try not to quote entire posts (narrow it down to the part you're addressing). I'm putting your quote in a spoiler tag - BernardoCairo

[Bhorium]

It irks me. In-universe, Shinji has by all appearances directly interacted with Mari for less than an hour across the entire story. And I find the implied age difference between them somewhat disturbing.

It is even really meant to be romantic? For how they interact at the end, they could as just as easy be good friends. Reading it differently more or less requires that you directly involve some real life subtext.

[Heaven Piercing Man]

I didn't mind Trunks x Mai, I don't mind Shinji x Mari.

I don't see why all anime relationships strictly have to be a climax after buildup, tension and shipping.

"Hey, I just met you, and this is crazy, but here's my number, so call me maybe?"

[evaunit13]

snip

If this also bothered you, then I’d think Shinji’s reaction to Rei II’s death in NGE should’ve also been upsetting. The lack of reaction in his room looked convincingly depressing, but he was downright expressionless right after her sacrifice, while he was still in the Eva.

Re: Misato
There are only 10 minutes between when Misato sacrifices herself to give Shinji the spear (~2:09) and when Shinji actually uses the spear (~2:19), all of which is packed with saying goodbyes to Asuka, Kaworu, and Rei, and a decent chunk of which Shinji isn’t even on-screen at all. As RussianRiz said, the pacing of the narrative was very quick, and Shinji likely already knew that he was immediately about to rewrite the world anyways. Misato’s death comes ~15 minutes prior to the end of 3.0+1.0 (~2:25), compared to ~50 minutes in EoE; there is no time to illustrate “lasting effects on [Shinji’s] character.”

It's a particularly tone-deaf message to send to an audience of majorly young adults residing in a country with one of the highest suicide rates in the world.

Anno stated in his fireside chat with Hitoshi Matsumoto that because he only understands Japanese, he can only make movies for a Japanese audience. Considering how depressing of a country it can be (my Japanese friends quite seriously ask me why foreigners smile and laugh so much; happiness is literally a foreign concept), the endemic nature of hikikomori (characterizable as a cycle of endless moping; something Anno is definitely familiar with from the productions of both NGE and NTE), and Anno’s sensitivity to audience reception (test screening scenes with internal staff and rewriting major sections based on their feedback), to say that he’s tone deaf strikes me as tone deaf.

[gatotsu911]

I thought it worked thematically - new faces, new connections, new beginnings, etc. - but I’m not sure the abstract meta-level thematics justify presenting Mari as a character with virtually no development, coherent motives, defining personality traits, etc. She’s just a big black box from beginning to end. Again, I get that this was likely a conscious decision, but I don’t think making her impossible to empathize with is really such a winning move and don’t think the ending would’ve suffered at all had this not been the case.

[Archer]

We actually have a valid justification for why she didn’t get more development: 2.0 is a fucking bloated mess and they didn’t want to make it an even bigger bloated mess by sticking in more Mari scenes, and 3.0 didn’t really have any logical place to stick a Mari-centric subplot.

That being said, I totally agree with you and think they should’ve just kept the extra Mari stuff in 2.0, bloated runtime or not.

[chattyfish]

Okay, guys, I know who Mari is.
She, like Shinji, is the daughter of someone involved in the project. Let's say -- her mother, whom we saw in Gendo's memory.

- this explains why she was a natural child in 2.0;
- this explains why she and professor Fu know each other;
- this makes her and Shinji more connected;
- if we're brave enough to go deeper, Asuka can also be "produced" from her mother (father), and because of that, Asuka is sooo important to her. This also explains why she drives in Asuka's Eva as in her own, without additional configurations and any other complicated things.

Just kidding, ofc
After reading the thread, decided to register and say something funny.

[gatotsu911]

We actually have a valid justification for why she didn’t get more development: 2.0 is a fucking bloated mess and they didn’t want to make it an even bigger bloated mess by sticking in more Mari scenes, and 3.0 didn’t really have any logical place to stick a Mari-centric subplot.

That being said, I totally agree with you and think they should’ve just kept the extra Mari stuff in 2.0, bloated runtime or not.

And now 3+1 is 2.5 hours and still a bloated mess! But yes, on anything but the most abstract symbolic level I think it’s fair to say Mari’s character non-arc was bungled from both ends.

Also glad someone else has as little regard for 2.0 as I do; seems like it’s most people’s favorite of the bunch. imo it’s the weakest of all four films and its torrential lack of consistency, structure and focus hurt both its followups by ensuring they would be forced to pick up after it.

[Melkor]

After recently binging all four Rebuild films, I noticed a few things I never did before, particularly in regards to Shinji and Mari and how there might actually be more to build up to their relationship than we thought. If you watch all four movies in succession like I did, you'll notice some subtle parallels between the two. For example, has anyone noticed that the scene at the end of 3.0 where Mari ejects Shinji from Unit-13 is a direct parallel to Shinji's attempt to save Rei at the end of 2.0?

In 2.0, Rei is trapped inside the 11th Angel, having resigned herself to her fate, until Shinji appears from above. In 3.0 Shinji is falling down from the sky in Unit-13, having resigned himself to his fate, until Mari appears from above. In 2.0, Shinji reaches his hand out to try and pull Rei out, and as he does the skin on his hand is shown peeling off. In 3.0, Mari forcibly ejects the entry plug, and as she does the skin on her hands become burnt. In 2.0 Shinji is the one doing the saving, but in 3.0 the roles are reversed where he is the one in need of saving, taking Rei's place.

In a way, that whole situation that occurred at the end of 2.0 was also partially Mari's fault. She enabled Shinji to cause Near Third Impact by carrying him out of the shelter and giving him the push to get back into Unit-01. If she hadn't done that, then Near third Impact would not have occurred, so her and Shinji are both kind of guilty of it. They're partners in crime. Shinji ended up in that situation with Rei because of Mari, and now when Shinji finds himself in the same situation it is also Mari who gets him out of it, bringing everything full circle.

Another significant parallel I noticed between Shinji and Mari is a connection to music, and the way they use it to cope. Shinji is always listening to his SDAT, and later learns to play the piano, while Mari is always singing. Shinji listens to the SDAT to block out the world around him, while Mari uses her singing to try and lighten the mood. Shinji's SDAT as well as his love of playing the piano is something that he got from his father, so I wonder if in much the same way Mari's signing might be something she also got from her parent. Assuming that the woman we saw in the photograph was Mari's mother or genetic template (if she is a clone), perhaps her mother would often sing to her when she was a child, and she picked it up as a result.

[cremino]

Mari represents a new beginning for Shinji away from his previous life. It's heavily hinted their relationship might become romantic but the ending is open enough You can interpret it as you like

[C.T.1290]

Mari represents a new beginning for Shinji away from his previous life.

So I guess it was for the best for him to say goodbye to his friends for good.

[Blockio]

Why do you assume it's for good? shin made kind of a big deal out of "'goodbye' is a phrase you say so you can meet again"

[The Dragon Mask]

Why do you assume it's for good? shin made kind of a big deal out of "'goodbye' is a phrase you say so you can meet again"

Good point. Even still I also have a similar take that he was moving on, but I'd like to see it the way you put it.

To me the final scene had a feeling of "seeing old friends you haven't talked in years in the distance, but being okay with letting them go rather than trying to rekindle a friendship that is gone". It was one of the most poignant parts of the ending imo, that Shinji (at least this Shinji) gave up his connections to the other pilots to save them, and the only person who still remembered him was the other person who was left in the anti-universe before the final shift.

In that sense Mari simply representing the promise of an unknown future is somewhat nice. Though I still think that they should have developed Mari more in any case. Regardless, Shinji not reconnecting with them at that time seems somewhat permanent and while that's kind of sad, it's one of the most believable and "real" feeling moments in the movie to me.

Admittedly this probably has to do with my own experiences letting go of friends because the relationship isn't there anymore, and trying to find peace in accepting that.

[Melkor]

Why do you assume it's for good? shin made kind of a big deal out of "'goodbye' is a phrase you say so you can meet again"

Not only that, there's also what Kaworu said to Shinji in 3.0 before he died. That they'll meet again. For all we know, after leaving the Anti-Universe, Shinji and Mari came across Kaworu and Rei, and the four of them walked back to the village. The train station scene takes place an unspecified number of years later, so during the time inbetween that's plenty of time where Shinji could have had more interactions with the other pilots before their final parting at the train station. For all we know, he might even have had a conversation with them at the train station offscreen, and we only see it pick up after they had already finished talking and walked away to wait at their respective stops on opposite sides of the platform, and the reason Shinji seems to not pay them any mind is because it's just such a common everyday occurrence where they bump into each other on the way to work that he doesn't make a big deal about it.