3.0 + 1.0 Reactions

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition"). The final instalment made its debut in Japan on March 8, 2021.

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Postby Raikyu » Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:39 am

View Original PostNuclear Lunchbox wrote:You know, the revelation that Asuka is a clone really gives a lot more weight to that line of hers, "I'm different from them! I'm special!" when she's using the doll to talk to herself in 2.0. We all assumed she was talking about the other Evangelion pilots, but now...

Come to think of it, it also explains some of her disdain toward Shinji and Rei. One's a daddy's boy, and the other's the commander's pet. Neither, in her mind, chosen on merit.


Indeed, that's rough. She fought her entire life to be selected and to avoid being discarded, while Shinji was just chosen.

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Postby Nuclear Lunchbox » Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:57 am

Oh, and it gets worse! Later in 2.0, Ritsuko says, "We have backups for everything, even the pilots." (In response to Asuka asking why Unit 02 is being sealed instead of Unit 00.) Gosh, that stings differently.

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Postby UrsusArctos » Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:04 am

View Original PostNuclear Lunchbox wrote:You know, the revelation that Asuka is a clone really gives a lot more weight to that line of hers, "I'm different from them! I'm special!" when she's using the doll to talk to herself in 2.0. We all assumed she was talking about the other Evangelion pilots, but now...


I'd forgotten about that line. No kidding, this really does change everything we assumed about her and it all makes perfect sense.
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Postby GhostlyOcam » Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:17 am

Yeah, rewatching the previous three films -mainly 2.0- with the knowledge of some stuff sheds light on what they actually mean or foreshadow. Shinji's heart-to-heart talk with Kaji on the sea life preservation site and watermelon field also hits different now, especially when Kaji talks about what it means to live as a survivor.

And of course, this one :crybaby:
SPOILER: Show
Image
Breathe the air, take in the feeling of peace and harmony.

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Postby BernardoCairo » Sat Apr 17, 2021 12:15 pm

"I cant do anything for myself"
Shikinami grew up in a competitive environment in which, if you are not 100% "useful" all the time, you're "done". That's why she was feeling so down after teaming up with Shinji and Ayanami to defeat the 8th angel. It had nothing to do with "pure pride", I guess.

Asuka's fight against Shinji also feels a bit different after we know what happens in Shin. I always knew that Shikinami was definitely not going for the kill. Otherwise, she would have defeated him. That's because Ikari himself wasn't fighting at his best. The situation was dire, to say the least. I mean, Shinji was about to end the world and nothing was going to stop him. That said, they still cared about each other. I always thought this was kind of obvious, but Shin makes it even clearer.

Kaji's "friendship" with Kaworu recontextualizes many things too.
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Postby Xiel » Sat Apr 17, 2021 3:39 pm

I think Shikinami's isolation (clone, and later angel hybrid) exposes indirectly Rei's and Kaworu's isolation as well. Since she's more expressive of her frustration instead of bottling it up quietly or running pretending to be smiling and ok to compartmentalize with your loneliness. It was a nice touch that added the hopelessness of the three Children's tragic fates.
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Postby C.T.1290 » Sat Apr 24, 2021 10:38 pm

View Original PostXiel wrote:I think Shikinami's isolation (clone, and later angel hybrid) exposes indirectly Rei's and Kaworu's isolation as well. Since she's more expressive of her frustration instead of bottling it up quietly or running pretending to be smiling and ok to compartmentalize with your loneliness. It was a nice touch that added the hopelessness of the three Children's tragic fates.

Yeah, imagine yourself being a clone instead of having your individuality, and no parents to even begin with. It’s like Asuka is not her own person, or even a real one. That kind of loneliness must have been eating away at her at some point in her life, and being a tool and nothing else. Someone has to be sick to put her through that existence, but this is NERV we’re talking about here. I don’t think they have much regards for ethics.

How could they put her through a life like this?
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Postby Pluto » Fri Aug 13, 2021 5:03 am

So I just saw the english dubbed and subtitled version of the film. Here are some thoughts:

-Any ambiguity on the mysteries and plot I had before have been explained sufficiently upon seeing the movie. Especially, the Kaji and Seele's plan stuff.
-The dub hits the big emotional beats but some nuance is lost.
-The main cast for the dub gives a good performance but Toji's VA missed the mark for me.
-I still teared up at a few parts.
-If you can see the movie in the theatre, I recommended it. A lot of the 3D looked better on the big screen and high res images are a plus.

- The first time I saw the movie I really felt "the horror of the third village" and Shinji's mental state. This nuance only appeared on a few select scenes as opposed to the whole time. Did any first timers feel this the first time you saw the film?
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Postby dluis » Fri Aug 13, 2021 5:13 am

Wtf did I watched last night until 2am?
I've read all possible theorys from NGE to Rebuild, but this last one, wtf...?
Imaginary realm ?
Giant Rei that is more real then 3D Hentai ?

Anyone have already started writing the Theory for 3.0+1.0 ?

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Postby Axx°N N. » Fri Aug 13, 2021 5:18 am

Oop, I guess this was a better thread than "How do you feel about NTE?" for a post I did there. I guess I'll just cross-post:
--
My long-form thoughts are here if anyone is interested. My more casual take is just that I feel really disappointed. Not much of my reactions from spoilers and leaks has changed. I really like some of the animation, but bad frames and CGI elsewhere pretty much evens it out. There's a bunch of chorus dirge in the soundtrack that sounds like it's trying to evoke the abominations of a battle, but I kept finding it unintentionally comedic because often the only tragic stuff happening on-screen was really bad mo-cap. Seriously feels like a video game at some points, and one with bad hit detection. As for the narrative, it strikes me as the Matrix sequels or Star Wars prequels of Evangelion, unconstrained and without ideas. So much of the writing is done just to advance the plot, and the quintessential bad screenwriting mistake of characters talking about things they both should already know (much of what Misato says to Ritsuko, for example) really starts to wear before the 1hr point. As for plot, a lot of the lore just seems like it's taking known elements from NGE and playing math with it so new stuff can be spit out. But the human drama this happens around goes way too fast to really sink in. I don't think there's a single moment I feel the camera taking its time. I'm at a complete loss to find positives. Shinji will never cry again in his life?
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Postby Pluto » Fri Aug 13, 2021 5:22 am

View Original Postdluis wrote:
SPOILER: Show
Wtf did I watched last night until 2am?
I've read all possible theorys from NGE to Rebuild, but this last one, wtf...?
Imaginary realm ?
Giant Rei that is more real then 3D Hentai ?

Anyone have already started writing the Theory for 3.0+1.0 ?


Yeah I think others have started like Reichu aka the @arqazone on twitter and some Japanese youtubers like eyesonly (Japanese only). I translated a few if you look at the previous pages. I'm sure a lot more of English content will come out in the following weeks. I think everything you need to know is explained in Shin and making connections to the other movies.

View Original PostAxx°N N. wrote:Oop, I guess this was a better thread than "How do you feel about NTE?" for a post I did there. I guess I'll just cross-post:
--
SPOILER: Show
My long-form thoughts are here if anyone is interested. My more casual take is just that I feel really disappointed. Not much of my reactions from spoilers and leaks has changed. I really like some of the animation, but bad frames and CGI elsewhere pretty much evens it out. There's a bunch of chorus dirge in the soundtrack that sounds like it's trying to evoke the abominations of a battle, but I kept finding it unintentionally comedic because often the only tragic stuff happening on-screen was really bad mo-cap. Seriously feels like a video game at some points, and one with bad hit detection. As for the narrative, it strikes me as the Matrix sequels or Star Wars prequels of Evangelion, unconstrained and without ideas. So much of the writing is done just to advance the plot, and the quintessential bad screenwriting mistake of characters talking about things they both should already know (much of what Misato says to Ritsuko, for example) really starts to wear before the 1hr point. As for plot, a lot of the lore just seems like it's taking known elements from NGE and playing math with it so new stuff can be spit out. But the human drama this happens around goes way too fast to really sink in. I don't think there's a single moment I feel the camera taking its time. I'm at a complete loss to find positives. Shinji will never cry again in his life?



I remember reading your posts throughout the release. I'm glad you got to finally see it! There's certainly some things on it that I can agree with out on (especially now that we have a home version) about its flaws (eg CG animation, plot points, etc). Some of the things that you mentioned like Shinji never crying again had me scratching my head as well. In the end, Anno landed the plane and although it's easy to see how it can be improved, I think the message and enjoyability got through and there was more positive things than negative things for me.
Last edited by Pluto on Fri Aug 13, 2021 5:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby LightDragonman » Fri Aug 13, 2021 5:26 am

Like Axx, I too will cross post my thoughts.

(Note: A lot of this writing is me being writing a similar review to a certain former internet reviewer's thoughts on a film I found very much like it, so my thoughts are gonna line up quite a bit. If you find lines from my post to be almost the same as his, that's why.)

Well, I just finished watching 3.0+1.0.

To be honest, I fully entered into it expecting to just be blown away, with a satisfied feeling at the end. Maybe that's not the right word, given the franchise's history, but at the very least, I expected to be just wowed and left in awe at what Anno and crew delivered in the end. Even if 3.33 snuffed out a lot of my enthusiasm for the franchise, I was still more than willing to give this film the benefit of the doubt. If Anno could pull off one last epic twist, which given the lengthy development and possible rewrites, was also expected, than all else could be forgiven.

Heck, I quite enjoyed the works Anno made during the long 8 and 1/2 wait between films. He excels in the sort of pseudo-philosophical crap that I eat up like candy, and given his renewed creative juices following Shin Godzilla, I sat down with the high hopes that he'd, at the very least, justify all the suffering and character-bashing of Redo, and pull out all the stops.

On the whole, watching 3.0+1.0 was easy. Heck, I'll even say I had a much better time watching it than I did with 3.33, as it was nowhere near as mean-spirited or full of contempt as that one was. Writing about my feelings on it though? That's an entirely different kettle of fish. I say this because I really, really want to say that it was the ending the franchise and all of us deserved, and one that I liked as much as the original series and 2.22 (still my favorite out of the entire saga). Yet sitting down thinking it over after having seen it, I really can't.

For that matter, I think I came to a glum realization while watching the credits roll. We had spent the past 8 and 1/2 years of our lives debating over what it all meant, what exactly Anno had up his sleeve, how each of the characters connected to both each other and their original selves, when really, this is how it was always gonna end. A whole bunch of slow character-building moments at the beginning, a very long, visually dense action-packed climax, and a reset button ending with the fates of some characters left up in the air. There was no real big twist or shock planned at all. Show's over folks. Go on home.

To be fair, getting a completely closed off ending with all the questions answered isn't to be expected from Eva. After all, one of the major draws of the franchise is its open-endedness that encourages the viewer to come up with their own interpretations. But I was just hoping for something more. They could've gone whatever crazy route they wanted with this saga, and instead what we ended up with was, surprisingly, rather predictable, despite all the unsubtle religious and spiritual terms and ideas thrown about willy-nilly.

There are other problems with it sure (some really lackluster CG near the end, certain characters not getting enough development or screentime, resolutions to some relationships feeling rushed or unearned, symbolism that's only there to look cool, areas which felt like padding), but the thing is, the original series has similar problems, yet it worked. Heck, the previous Rebuild films, even 3.33 had that, and they still worked too. I think this film went wrong because it whole-heartedly leaned into the mystical and mind-screw territory, without really having enough build-up to really justify it. The films worked best when it was centered on Shinji's connection to the others, and how he and those close to him grew from them, and I just wanted to see more of that, not a whole bunch of abstract and visually dense imagery that really means bugger all when you start to analyze it.

And it's not just me simply wanting my favored ship or the like to come canon or have closure. A lot of things get that in this film. But it all just feels buried under the weight of everything that is jockeying for screentime. Lots of things explode, colors are assaulting the senses, nightmarish imagery is shown, and yet it all feels hollow. And it all culminates in an ending that is essentially a reset button, alongside making it clear that Anno clearly views it as less of a story and more of a way to express his own personal feelings at us.

To be fair, the original was that as well. But it was much more effective in it for a reason. The franchise's main source for its themes, beyond the mere window dressing of the religious symbolism and Freudian subtext, was that of the Hedgehog's Dilemma. How we all crave the affection and connection we share with others, and yet they also cause us to feel pain. Said pain may lead to us isolating from others to stay safe, but it is not at all what we as humans need to truly live. The world is filled with hardships and painful times, but it is all worth enduring it and living, because through them warmth and love can still reach you. Running away from all that just because you don't want to get hurt deprives you of what is beautiful in the world, and said beauty makes this harsh life worth it all in the end. More to the point, it is through it that we can learn to love both others and ourselves, and we can endure thanks to that.

And here in 3.0+1.0..................it all ends with an Impact that basically causes a reset button on the heroes' lives. Some have said that all the philosophical navel-gazing of the original show was little more than pretentious nonsense, and to an extent that may be true. But there's a reason as to why it became such a cultural touchstone. It was the very rare series that managed to tap even the dimmest basement-dweller and make them think about their lives, if only for a moment. For this film to not do it as well just leaves me with a hollow feeling.

I often said that I had this feeling watching the previews, and upon seeing the film, I hate to admit it, but I really do think that this is Eva's equivalent to The Matrix Revolutions. It's a film that, while having high ambitions and loads of themes and spectacle, ends up feeling anti-climactic and not as impactful as I hoped.

That said, I would still tell people to watch the movie. After all, my thoughts are just the thoughts of one person. Who knows, you may end up coming to the complete opposite of my final thoughts. Just for me though, I expected to be blown away, and yet by the time the credits rolled, I was left feeling nothing.

.....................Dang it, this saga could've been so fricken cool. I can't believe it.
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Postby Axx°N N. » Fri Aug 13, 2021 5:32 am

View Original PostPluto wrote:I remember reading your posts throughout the release. I'm glad you got to finally see it! There's certainly some things on it that I can agree with out on (especially now that we have a home version) about its flaws (eg CG animation, plot points, etc). Some of the things that you mentioned like Shinji never crying again had me scratching my head as well. In the end, Anno landed the plane and although it's easy to see how it can be improved, I think the message and enjoyability got through and there was more positive things than negative things for me.

As negative as my takeaways were, I still haven't felt this excited about a film in a while, and I'm glad to share in the elation of release night. I'm glad you had a better time with it post-viewing than me, ha. ^_^
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Postby LightDragonman » Fri Aug 13, 2021 5:43 am

Yeah, for all my complaints, I didn't hate the whole movie. Heck, I wouldn't even say that I hated it. There were still moments and elements that I truly enjoyed, and like I mentioned, it was a much easier and more fun experience than 3.0 was.

I just wish it was better. All things considered, 2.0 is, imo, still the high point of the Rebuild saga, and even has a more satisfying ending as well.
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Postby Nuclear Lunchbox » Fri Aug 13, 2021 7:34 am

A friend pointed out something interesting to me. Kensuke's way of showing his love for things and people is through his camera. In Shin, he stops filming WILLE military porn to film Asuka instead. If that's not affection, I don't know what is.

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Postby Jayfive » Fri Aug 13, 2021 8:07 am

That's...a reach.

His line when he does that is "Today I want to film it all".

Also it's not really "WILLE Military porn", it's a single transport craft.

Also the bit a few seconds later where Asuka is like, "You're coming? Whatever" and tranqs him and then upon waking up he gets bitchslapped by Sakura is hilarious.
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Postby Konja7 » Fri Aug 13, 2021 8:10 am

View Original PostJayfive wrote:That's...a reach.


In fact, I remember a a member of staff said the the scene of Kensuke pointing his camera toward Asuka was make with a romantic vibe.

It seems people in twitter were pretty angry for this. Even Khara released a statement (in Japanese and English) to show support to the staff member.
Last edited by Konja7 on Fri Aug 13, 2021 8:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Jayfive » Fri Aug 13, 2021 8:14 am

I'd go with "affectionate".

While there's no shipping to be done initially, their relationship will get an upgrade in the remade world. Especially seeing as Asuka has that brand new rockin' adult bod :tongue:
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Postby Gendo's Glasses » Fri Aug 13, 2021 8:30 am

As an ending to Evangelion as a whole, I think it's a fantastic film that does everything you need to do to give the series a wonderful sense of closure.

As the fourth Rebuild film, it's honestly kinda shaky and I think it walks back a lot of the more interesting parts of the Rebuilds, 3.33 especially, in order to go for a happy ending. The only action pieces I think landed were Unit 02's radiant giant bit and the father/son duel. I also think the score was not as particularly effective as the previous films, and the sort of 'happy peppy' track that played during the warship duel felt remarkably out of place which is not something I've ever thought I'd say about an Evangelion film before. How much of the script is a character giving exposition to the audience? I agree with a lot of Axx°N N's thoughts in their post.

I liked it a lot but I think it's pretty obvious why it's 3.0 + 1.0 and not 4.44. Which is unfortunate.

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Postby Swami » Fri Aug 13, 2021 8:46 am

I loved this movie for a lot of reasons, but the main reason I thoroughly enjoyed it was Shinji. He grew as a character in this movie. He didn’t lament about how he feels about himself through 90% of the movie like EoE or enter into a frustrating period of self loathing. It was so refreshing to see him confront his father and help people through Instrumentality. NGE really lacked this Shinji which was why I could never fully love NGE. My wish had come true and now I can love Evangelion.


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