Loop Theory (I Really was born to meet you)

[Ah Q]

For what it’s worth, when Kaworu tells Shinji they’ve met before during instrumentality, there is a shot of the headless angel statue (the one that resembles the mass production evas from EoE) where they first met by the shore in NGE. And there’s a shot with Shinji facing Asuka (or was it Rei?) against a wall, and scenes from either EoE or episodes 25/25 (not sure) being “projected” on top of them, like a movie.

I lean towards the “loop within NTE” interpretation, but alas...

You're leaving out an important detail with respect to the angel statue: Shinji comments that he recalls having met Kaworu there before. And so it appears that, through Instrumentality, Shinji is somehow gaining knowledge or memories from the NGE continuity.

[Blockio]

We still haven't seen most of the instrumentality scenes. I think any judgement on if the timelines are connected is premature; Anno does a lot through visual storytelling, and we don't nearly have enough of that to make any definitive claims.

[FelipeFritschF]

Most Japanese seem to be leaning towards closed loop, but admit that it's not obvious. Even this is ambiguous. Yes, you see those callbacks, but they are explicitely shown in a meta sense. They're in a studio. I'm not so sure about Kaworu's scene, but the EoE beach scene is clearly altered - Shinji in a plugsuit, Big Asuka, 3.0 moon, etc. Everything regarding the loop itself points towards closed loop - Kaworu wakes up in another coffin within the actual movie, which wouldn't make sense if he just "jumps" to another continuity like people argued for. Multiverse proper seems to be discarded because of that. I'm not so sure about Gendo being in "control" of Instrumentality. Certainly more details will come out eventually.

[Axx°N N.]

What's the implication? What's been looping? Has the plot of Eva unfolded time and again, leading to an EoE-style beach scene and restoration of the world, and then another coffin opens up? A loop, but one centralized to one universe? Once we re-take a look at EoE, Kaworu's final dialogue to Shinji doesn't feel at all like something unresolved and about to begin again, it seems final and like parting words. So I really don't jibe with the "this is finally giving Kaworu the closure he always deserved" narrative I've seen here and there, unless they purely mean the Kaworu of NTE; Kaworu in NGE is not someone stuck in a literal/figurative co-dependent loop erroneously seeking to bring Shinji happiness. This whole loop business which seems purely centralized to him only makes sense, just like Mari, through the lens of metanarrative. To the fans, and their projections, and the relationship they've had with him as a character over the years which has far superseded his actual scripted presence, maybe this is a fitting closure if instead of narrative depth they just want a character to change and be ordinary and happy. It's a dialogue between fans and a retroactive continuity's take on a character, perhaps even a parallel to the creator's long-standing inability to let his franchise go--you'd think, then, that he would realize (like Kaworu apparently does) that the desire to grant Shinji with magically contrived happiness is paradoxically damaging & shortsighted.

Anyway, all that said, this puts me in the 'self-contained loop' camp.

[DantesInferno]

Yeah, I’m not sure about what is the “extent” of the loop; what gets repeated, and how it changes each time. I saw the movie twice and cannot fully decide one way or the other. Near the end, there is a lot of exposition/talking, some characters (Gendo during instrumentality, Misato when justifying her allowing Shinji again into Unit-01) seem to talk too much/too fast, as if there isn’t enough movie left to say everything they want to... So naturally I must have missed a lot of stuff.

We’ll have better hypotheses when the DVD/Bluray/Streaming comes out and most of the senior members of this forum have had time to watch and rewatch, frame-freeze, and work their theories out!

[Ah Q]

I've read that Quantum Rei appears at some point in 3.0+1.0, but haven't been able to confirm whether and when that happens. Did you catch any Quantum Rei appearances?

[supersonicshion]

According to the leaks I’ve read, loop theory seems to be alive and well. It does seem ambiguous. I should still watch the movie to come to a proper conclusion.

[Kendrix]

I've read that Quantum Rei appears at some point in 3.0+1.0, but haven't been able to confirm whether and when that happens. Did you catch any Quantum Rei appearances?

There was one shot of her floating above a lake in the latest trailer, at least.

[Heaven Piercing Man]

According to the leaks I’ve read, loop theory seems to be alive and well. It does seem ambiguous. I should still watch the movie to come to a proper conclusion.

Loopers have invested at least 10 years on it. No way in hell they are stopping. It's like shipping.

[Jayfive]

According to the leaks I’ve read, loop theory seems to be alive and well. It does seem ambiguous. I should still watch the movie to come to a proper conclusion.

Literally the opposite is true. There is no loop. There is no sequel. There is no time travel.

Kaworu as a individual loops from end to beginning of the universe in the manner of that episode from Futurama but the timeline itself does not. If anyone is telling you otherwise they haven't seen the film.

[Konja7]

Literally the opposite is true. There is no loop. There is no sequel. There is no time travel.

Kaworu as a individual loops from end to beginning of the universe in the manner of that episode from Futurama but the timeline itself does not. If anyone is telling you otherwise they haven't seen the film.

I've understood there are meta references to the TV anime.

So, I think they want to create an ambiguous connection to the TV anime.

[Blockio]

Meta references are just that. A nod to a different work. Not something that automatically implies the same continuity

[Arcadia's legacy]

Kaworu as a individual loops from end to beginning of the universe in the manner of that episode from Futurama but the timeline itself does not.

That doesn't sound like a loop though, it sound's like he's just moving forward, and whenever he dies (Assuming your Futurama analogy is on-point), he's fast-forwarded into the next Universe, whereas a loop would require going backwards

[Konja7]

That doesn't sound like a loop though, it sound's like he's just moving forward, and whenever he dies (Assuming your Futurama analogy is on-point), he's fast-forwarded into the next Universe, whereas a loop would require going backwards

It isn't totally clear how the loop works.

I would say it seems Kaworu going backwards after he dies. He doesn't return after his death in 3.0, but that's likely due to his soul being trapped in Eva-13.

[Blockio]

...is it really too much of a stretch to assume that instead of breaking linear space time, things just move forward and history repeats itself?

[Jayfive]

Also the whole theme of the NTE/Rebuild films (or at very least this last film) is about breaking the loop. Getting out of the cycle of depression that coincidentally began with his work on Evangelion and Evangelion itself. Thematically having loops and sequels doesn't work.

The franchise isn't done. I'm sure we'll get everything from a new batch of pachinko machines to a Shinji/Mari slice of married life manga series. But Anno is done with the franchise. Though he leaves it on good terms.

[Konja7]

...is it really too much of a stretch to assume that instead of breaking linear space time, things just move forward and history repeats itself?

Curiously, breaking a linear space time wouldn't allow a connection with the TV anime, since everything seems to (re)start for Kaworu when he wakes up in the coffin.

Instead, jumping to a new universe after the current ended could allow a connection with the TV anime, since the universe is different.

[Blockio]

At which point in time did I imply anything along the lines of different universes? We already know that there are at least two more digits in the year count before "2015", plenty of time for shit to go down without the need for any of that

[DantesInferno]

So maybe it is like “Groundhog Day”?

But if the world is reset at each turn of the loop, why are the coffins there? And why doesn’t anyone else suspect anything? The coffins are there for everyone at the Mark 06 building site to see, Seele included!

[Mr. Tines]

Given the way that Anno responded to Puella Magi Madoka Magica

It feels good to see Kyubey so thoroughly put to function as a symbol as well as a character. The symbolization of the witches is also skilfully done. And then the music is good. And then the way HomuHomu was depicted in Ep.10 was good.

one might have an educated guess about the looping.