Loop Theories and How They Work

[qu4d]

See... you're speaking of ZERO reason. But that's not true. Kaworu's statements (plural!) are pretty ambivalent. Even his original voice actor said that Kaworu remembers the stuff from NGE. All of that doesn't mean that this is right - but there is a reason for people speculating about that. This doesn't come out of nowhere. Why do you think this started in the first place? You don't know what this stuff means, I don't know what this stuff means. Until now it's pretty much open to interpretation and I think it's possible that 3.0+1.0 won't change that. To objectively dismiss that idea is arrogant.

[Monk Ed]

I think you've both made your respective opinions on the matter pretty clear at this point.

[Bagheera]

See... you're speaking of ZERO reason. But that's not true. Kaworu's statements (plural!) are pretty ambivalent. Even his original voice actor said that Kaworu remembers the stuff from NGE. All of that doesn't mean that this is right - but there is a reason for people speculating about that. This doesn't come out of nowhere. Why do you think this started in the first place? You don't know what this stuff means, I don't know what this stuff means. Until now it's pretty much open to interpretation and I think it's possible that 3.0+1.0 won't change that. To objectively dismiss that idea is arrogant.

I think the fact that the staff have said point blank that it's not a sequel is reason enough to dismiss the idea of it being a sequel. That pretty much ends it for me, the rest is just filling in details.

[qu4d]

And again you are being totally selective. You just pick up what suits you.

We got (according to you) a statement by the staff (source?) that it's no sequel.
We got the statement by the voice actor, that Kaworu remembers NGE.

Both statements contradict each other*. What is the result? No solution. And still we don't know what Kaworu is referring to in NTE. Still, you claim to know.

*depends on how you would define "sequel" and if this involves/rules out a time loop.

And that's all that can be said.

[Bagheera]

And again you are being totally selective. You just pick up what suits you.

Not really. Official statements are the end of the matter. See the sequel theory thread for sources.

[qu4d]

There are quiet a few threads... without knowing who said what and in which context and a definition of what sequel means, this is pointless.

[Merkaba]

Not really. Official statements are the end of the matter. See the sequel theory thread for sources.

You always say things like "end of the matter," "dead in the water," "full stop" and other "I'm getting the last word by pretending that I'm the authority and my omniscience grants me the right to declare that the matter is resolved in my favor" phrases. It's a tad bit condescending.

qu4d is right on the money - people turn into full-blown dicks when anyone mentions the possibility of sequel and/or time loop theories. It really does turn people off from visiting these great forums.

How do I know? I've met people through other mediums who talked with me about ceasing to visit this site after certain members (the same two or three are always mentioned) treated them like shit for expressing their opinions. Eva is a great fandom; don't ruin it because you don't know how to properly respond to people with different ideas than you. (This includes, but is not limited to: using condescending language and a generally dickish tone.)

I personally don't believe in sequel theory (I think Kaworu's lines definitely suggest time loop), but I don't sit and wait for someone to bring it up just so I can pretend to myself that I'm of superior intellect and tell anyone who disagrees with me that they're fools and are wasting everyone's time.

This forum is a cesspool of rudeness, which is a shame, because it is such a great resource for fans. My fear is that, at certain points, it seems to do more harm than good though, especially when newcomers stop by and are treated like garbage by people too set in their ways to look outside their own sphere and respect differences in ideas.

[Bagheera]

You always say things like "end of the matter" and "full stop" and other "I'm getting the last word by pretending that I'm the authority and my omniscience grants me the right to declare that the matter is resolved in my favor" phrases. It's a tad bit condescending.

When we have official word on the matter that is the end of it.

As for tone: yeah, we can get excessive at times, but newcomers often bring that on themselves (I've seen that with a couple of the arguments in the sequel thread in particular -- someone new comes in and acts like he owns the place, brings up crackpot theories that don't pan out in light of the evidence at hand, and dismisses arguments from forum members who actually know what they're talking about. And then they visit other sites and talk about how mean we are for actually, you know, knowing what we're talking about. So it goes). When newcomers are polite and constructive we tend to accept them readily (see pwhodges, for example). It's a two-way street.

[pwhodges]

There are quiet a few threads... without knowing who said what and in which context and a definition of what sequel means, this is pointless.

There are just nine threads in the Rebuild forum with "sequel" as part of the title. The reason people get tetchy sometimes is that often the same arguments are brought up that have already been discussed at length previously. Obviously it is helpful to point to these places; but equally it is good manners to have a quick look around, especially when previous discussions are mentioned.

http://forum.evageeks.org/thread/9474/
http://forum.evageeks.org/thread/6022/
http://forum.evageeks.org/thread/10973/
http://forum.evageeks.org/thread/13416/
http://forum.evageeks.org/thread/13212/
http://forum.evageeks.org/thread/4369/
http://forum.evageeks.org/thread/12673/
http://forum.evageeks.org/thread/12166/
http://forum.evageeks.org/thread/9716/

[Monk Ed]

As for tone: yeah, we can get excessive at times

Hate to break it to you, but you're pretty famous for your unique brand of ... you. Others do it too, but none quite like you. It is your character flaw.

Also I think it's time to give this thread a rest -- at least until I wake up, so that it doesn't explode when I'm not looking.

Think of this as the perfect chance to read at least some of those links.

EDIT: Zzzz-nk! I'm awake! I'm awake.

[Dima]

When we have official word on the matter that is the end of it.

As for tone: yeah, we can get excessive at times, but newcomers often bring that on themselves (I've seen that with a couple of the arguments in the sequel thread in particular -- someone new comes in and acts like he owns the place, brings up crackpot theories that don't pan out in light of the evidence at hand, and dismisses arguments from forum members who actually know what they're talking about. And then they visit other sites and talk about how mean we are for actually, you know, knowing what we're talking about. So it goes). When newcomers are polite and constructive we tend to accept them readily (see pwhodges, for example). It's a two-way street.

Actually the only one that gets excessive with newcomers (and acts like he owns the place if i should use your words) is only you, speaking from a personal terrible experience. Newcomers are newcomers meaning they are new around these parts so it's normal if for example they post a theory with some lack of evidence. It is the ''duty'' of the other members to help them or explain them why they are probably wrong or right. Something that you are not willing to do judging from your posts. While quoting something qu4d said you wrote that the staff said NTE is not a sequel to NGE and prompted him to search the sequel thread (uh which one of the 10 we have?) for the source (which i am not sure an official source exists but whateve) instead of posting an actual link. And this is just one case of the numerous occasions that you acted like that. If you want to participate actively in a conversation maybe you should be more specific next time and not selective or choosing what suits you so you don't have to seem excessive or like owning the place.

[Bagheera]

Dima, see to the plank in your eye before worrying about the splinter in mine.

As to links, this one's the best:

http://forum.evageeks.org/thread/6022/A-remake-or-a-sequel/?

Reichu's and SSD's posts are particularly illuminating.

[NemZ]

Can we stick to the topic, please? Resurrecting old drama helps nobody.

[Dima]

Seeing NGE mentioned in Khara website makes me think that now there are more chances for NGE + EoE Blu-Ray edition in the future.

[Jäeger]

Seeing NGE mentioned in Khara website makes me think that now there are more chances for NGE + EoE Blu-Ray edition in the future.

I agree, but I don't think the series blu ray edition would be a big improvement over the platinum edition, except for the upscale. EoE would be another story.

Time loop?? Mabye in the rebuild Universe. Parallel universe?? Fine. But linked to NGE?? No way, no proof, and if that was their intention, they have done it awfully wrong and Anno never would see my wallet again, because I couldn't endure such despise to EoE, a sequel to NGE would trivialize everything about the original show. What happened to Shinji and Asuka? They were bored and begged to Rei/lillith to reset everything to the beginning of the series?? Except a few chosen remains of the third impact, of course And Mari, etc... Asuka is not the same character, christ.

A time loop theory would have no sense. Everything (1.11) happens in the same way? Too lazy even for anime industry standards. And the sea?? It went back blue and the red again in NTE's time loop 2I?? Because every X years an impact takes places, of course. Reincarnations? My god ,and everything happens the same way? The same places, the same background, the same dialogues?. If that was their intention, they better play Xenogears to learn to do it RIGHT.

After my anger issues what I don't understand it's that something that is very usual in any other franchises or media (alternative continuities) when arrives to Eva makes people go crazy. Khara themselves have sold this as a retelling/re-imagining, like many others did before. The same way in other franchises a reference, a callback, doesn´t make a new story a sequel, the same applies for EVA. It's not about Eva, it's about entertainment, about anime industry. And, except things like EoE or side stories, it's very usual in anime franchises to release alternate continuity films (Macross, Escaflowne, etc....)

[qu4d]

But linked to NGE?? No way, no proof, and if that was their intention, they have done it awfully wrong and Anno never would see my wallet again, because I couldn't endure such despise to EoE

Why are you asking for proof? I can't speak for others, but I don't claim to have proof or the correct answer.

a sequel to NGE would trivialize everything about the original show.

That's just your opinion.

What happened to Shinji and Asuka? They were bored and begged to Rei/lillith to reset everything to the beginning of the series?? Except a few chosen remains of the third impact, of course And Mari, etc... Even Asuka is not the same character. Even a time loop theory would have no sense Everything (1.11) happens in the same way? Too lazy even for anime industry standards. And the sea?? It went back blue and the red again in NTE's time loop 2I?? Reincarnations? My god and everything happens the same way?

You are using a straw man. Please stop doing that. None of your "arguments" have anything to do with the suggested time loop.

[Jäeger]

Why are you asking for proof? I can't speak for others, but I don't claim to have proof or the correct answer.


That's just your opinion.

Of course it's just my opinion

You are using a straw man. Please stop doing that. None of your "arguments" have anything to do with the suggested time loop.

Yes, they do. I just point that if that was their intention the have done awfully wrong and with so much plot holes that has no sense. No only from a fanboy POV, but from a consistent narrative. Since the story starts the exact same way the series did, a time loop/sequel would be so lazy and so lacking of imagination (in concept and development) that it wouldn't deserve 2 hours of my life. Just my opinion, but I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who thinks the same way. I can believe in a time loop narrative, but in REBUILD universe only and tith it's own rules. It would be just lazy and pitiful changing the rules a la DEUS EX MACHINA.

And I'm still wating a consistent explanation about how things go from EoE to 1.11, even with the time loop theory. Please, DO. Time resets some years after EoE? They are reincarnations that do the exact same things, because every "X time" things happen the same way again? Reset or reincarnations? If it's a reset, how it's possible that somethings are the same and other not? If you reset, you reset EVERYTHING. And on and on...

I forgot....a lot of people seem to not understand anime industry.

[qu4d]

Yes, they do.

No, they don't. Repeating the straw man doesn't make it right.

I just point that if that was their intention the have done awfully wrong and with so much plot holes that has no sense. No only from a fanboy POV, but from a consistent narrative. Since the story starts the exact same way the series did, a time loop/sequel would be so lazy and so lacking of imagination (in concept and development) that it wouldn't deserve 2 hours of my life.

And I'm still wating a consistent explanation about how things go from EoE to 1.11, even with the time loop theory.

You point out flaws of a construct, that isn't what a time loop means. What you are arguing with is what's very similar to what Sadamoto did with the manga - which is, to me, a stupid ending.

In a time loop, there is no direct connection between EoE to 1.11. In NTE there are no physical remnants of NGE.

1.: The universe is born.
2.: The story of NGE happens.
3.: Shinji and Asuka are at the beach at the end of EoE, we don't know what happens to them. At some point they die. Life goes on for other beings in the universe.
4.: The universe dies.
5.: The universe is born again.
6.: The story of NTE happens. It's similar, but not the same. Kaworu remembers NGE. Nothing else.
7.: At some point, the universe probably dies again.
8.: Shit starts over again, this time with even more improvements.

[Jäeger]

No, they don't. Repeating the straw man doesn't make it right.



You point out flaws of a construct, that isn't what a time loop means. What you are arguing with is what's very similar to what Sadamoto did with the manga - which is, to me, a stupid ending.

In a time loop, there is no direct connection between EoE to 1.11. In NTE there are no physical remnants of NGE.

1.: The universe is born.
2.: The story of NGE happens.
3.: Shinji and Asuka are at the beach at the end of EoE, we don't know what happens to them. At some point they die. Life goes on for other beings in the universe.
4.: The universe dies.
5.: The universe is born again.
6.: The story of NTE happens. It's similar, but not the same. Kaworu remembers NGE. Nothing else.
7.: At some point, the universe probably dies again.
8.: Shit starts over again, this time with even more improvements.

I do understand from the beginning, still has no sense form me. At least, you don't call callbacks from EoE as proofs


Well, at least we agree that Manga ending was a big pile of shit

[Bagheera]

1.: The universe is born.
2.: The story of NGE happens.
3.: Shinji and Asuka are at the beach at the end of EoE, we don't know what happens to them. At some point they die. Life goes on for other beings in the universe.
4.: The universe dies.
5.: The universe is born again.
6.: The story of NTE happens. It's similar, but not the same. Kaworu remembers NGE. Nothing else.
7.: At some point, the universe probably dies again.
8.: Shit starts over again, this time with even more improvements.

Yes, but why? How does that approach serve the story?