Late-watcher of 3.0: what are the main opinions on it?
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- Falcon_of_the_Sun
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Late-watcher of 3.0: what are the main opinions on it?
I have watched 3.0 just yesterday because I wanted to see it in theatres and I got back to Eva just recently.
I have skimmed through a few of threads, seen a few locked and read the word "hate" a few times. I really don't think I can bring much to the debate, in anything because I am not that much into Rebuild as a whole. I might just have one single question regarding what I think is a logical fallacy (might actually bevery minor!), but I'll keep that for later in the case.
But I was curious to see what were the opinions and feelings that polarised the community over the third installment. Would anybody be so kind to sum them up very briefly?
Ta :)
I have skimmed through a few of threads, seen a few locked and read the word "hate" a few times. I really don't think I can bring much to the debate, in anything because I am not that much into Rebuild as a whole. I might just have one single question regarding what I think is a logical fallacy (might actually bevery minor!), but I'll keep that for later in the case.
But I was curious to see what were the opinions and feelings that polarised the community over the third installment. Would anybody be so kind to sum them up very briefly?
Ta :)
- hui43210
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Some like me, thought that it was awesome and truly represented everything that I think about when I think about Eva. But I get the sense that most people hate it, so I haven't really been hanging around actual discussion of the film.
I mean, predictability is the central attraction and the narrative hook that we've all come to expect from the Evangelion franchise. How come Anno can't realize this? Twice? - FreakyFilmFan4ever
- Falcon_of_the_Sun
- Ramiel
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It's told almost entirely from one perspective and as a result comes across as confusing, contradictory and is a massive break from prior movies. That's why it's so polarizing.
I'm not commenting on whether it's good or bad in this case. It's just really different. Where the prior two movies still had a focus on Shinji and only occasionally touched on minor characters, the third movie is pretty much all about him and entirely from his perspective, information gaps and all. The audience is as confused and jerked around and mistreated as Shinji is.
I'm not commenting on whether it's good or bad in this case. It's just really different. Where the prior two movies still had a focus on Shinji and only occasionally touched on minor characters, the third movie is pretty much all about him and entirely from his perspective, information gaps and all. The audience is as confused and jerked around and mistreated as Shinji is.
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Most of the internet hated Q because it was not like Ha. But since there was a lot of Ha hate here, Q got a clean sheet because it was not like Ha.
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- pwhodges
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A lot of people have found that their opinion of it improved on successive watchings.
Some of us weren't here then, and so are immune to that effect.
Some of us weren't here then, and so are immune to that effect.
"Being human, having your health; that's what's important." (from: Magical Shopping Arcade Abenobashi )
"As long as we're all living, and as long as we're all having fun, that should do it, right?" (from: The Eccentric Family )
Avatar: The end of the journey (details); Past avatars.
Before 3.0+1.0 there was Afterwards... my post-Q Evangelion fanfic (discussion)
"As long as we're all living, and as long as we're all having fun, that should do it, right?" (from: The Eccentric Family )
Avatar: The end of the journey (details); Past avatars.
Before 3.0+1.0 there was Afterwards... my post-Q Evangelion fanfic (discussion)
- Falcon_of_the_Sun
- Ramiel
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I see. Thanks.
My one question was: isn't it a MAJOR logical fallacy that Wille, in all their might of the Wunder fleet and all (capable of obliterating a few of those Mark 04 drones even when kinda caught by surprise) doesn't just bomb/attack the crap out of that relic that the Nerv HQ now is? Sure they must know where it is?
My one question was: isn't it a MAJOR logical fallacy that Wille, in all their might of the Wunder fleet and all (capable of obliterating a few of those Mark 04 drones even when kinda caught by surprise) doesn't just bomb/attack the crap out of that relic that the Nerv HQ now is? Sure they must know where it is?
- Dr. Talos
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I think Charsi has the right of it. The film is a massive break from 2 and at times seems contradictory such as the consequences of near third impact in 2 seem much less severe than the miserable post-apocalypse we see in Q. This leaves the viewer feeling disjointed as if they have missed something (which we kind of have). Clearly though the feeling of confusion and uncertainty is intentional but to some it seems excessive and maybe inorganic especially in the case of the blame placed upon Shinji who's actions in 2 didn't seem to have the world ending consequences that they appear to have had in Q
Further Q is such a Shinji centric film that the other characters are left largely to the sidelines and with their limited development in the previous films it leaves them feeling a bit flat i suppose.
In addition I've seen it argued that there is a liberal use of the Idiot Ball in Q such as how no one thinks it a good idea to actually tell Shinji why pulling the Spears out is not the best idea. This is a criticism that I tend to agree with.
Of course Q has, around these parts at least, been received much more positively than 2 which sparked significant debate and flared tempers in regard to its quality.
Further Q is such a Shinji centric film that the other characters are left largely to the sidelines and with their limited development in the previous films it leaves them feeling a bit flat i suppose.
In addition I've seen it argued that there is a liberal use of the Idiot Ball in Q such as how no one thinks it a good idea to actually tell Shinji why pulling the Spears out is not the best idea. This is a criticism that I tend to agree with.
Of course Q has, around these parts at least, been received much more positively than 2 which sparked significant debate and flared tempers in regard to its quality.
- hui43210
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Hmmmm I don't get that, WILLE didn't think he would escape, why would they even mention the spears, or even know about them themselves? SEELE wanted them pulled, so tricked him and Kawrou, and by the time Shinji was told not to, Shinji was long gone mentally.
I mean, predictability is the central attraction and the narrative hook that we've all come to expect from the Evangelion franchise. How come Anno can't realize this? Twice? - FreakyFilmFan4ever
My opinion is that it's an excercise in a dog kicking.
The reason why it's shown all from Shinji's perspective is, to make fans feel wiser and more mature when they get detached and look from other point than Shinji's eyes.
The exact reason it's concentrated on Shinji is to later make him look even more like a waste of space since "everyone was right all along". It's so glaringly obvious.
It's just to prepare us, for justification of said dog kicking in fourth movie. So the wise true Eva fans would be able to tell "we were right and the kid deserved all this for missing the big picture".
And predictibility of this is making my distaste even bigger.
The reason why it's shown all from Shinji's perspective is, to make fans feel wiser and more mature when they get detached and look from other point than Shinji's eyes.
The exact reason it's concentrated on Shinji is to later make him look even more like a waste of space since "everyone was right all along". It's so glaringly obvious.
It's just to prepare us, for justification of said dog kicking in fourth movie. So the wise true Eva fans would be able to tell "we were right and the kid deserved all this for missing the big picture".
And predictibility of this is making my distaste even bigger.
Another jaded man.
Wciąż stoję nieruchomo, w nieżywym już szeregu. Umieram na stojąco, niech inni giną w biegu.
Wciąż stoję nieruchomo, w nieżywym już szeregu. Umieram na stojąco, niech inni giną w biegu.
- Falcon_of_the_Sun
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It's more along the lines of Asuka should have rather than telling him he was being a brat tried to explain the potential consequences of his actions during their fight. Kawrou could also have been more forceful in his telling Shinji to stop or at least why he should stop. Of course by that point Shinji was utterly off his face with exhaustion and stress and Asuka has never been terribly composed during battles so expecting anyone to act rationally at that stage might be asking too much.
Last edited by Dr. Talos on Thu Sep 26, 2013 3:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- pwhodges
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Falcon_of_the_Sun wrote:My one question was: isn't it a MAJOR logical fallacy that Wille, in all their might of the Wunder fleet and all (capable of obliterating a few of those Mark 04 drones even when kinda caught by surprise) doesn't just bomb/attack the crap out of that relic that the Nerv HQ now is? Sure they must know where it is?
At the beginning Wunder couldn't even fly - hence Ritsuko's objection when Misato turned on the power (Unit-01) and ordered take-off when they had never tested it (and clearly, prior to getting Unit-01, holding off the Nemesis series had been a close thing). And at the end, Wunder's capability was being stretched as well - hence the sacrifice of Unit-02. I think that your phrase "all their might" is simply over-stating the case.
"Being human, having your health; that's what's important." (from: Magical Shopping Arcade Abenobashi )
"As long as we're all living, and as long as we're all having fun, that should do it, right?" (from: The Eccentric Family )
Avatar: The end of the journey (details); Past avatars.
Before 3.0+1.0 there was Afterwards... my post-Q Evangelion fanfic (discussion)
"As long as we're all living, and as long as we're all having fun, that should do it, right?" (from: The Eccentric Family )
Avatar: The end of the journey (details); Past avatars.
Before 3.0+1.0 there was Afterwards... my post-Q Evangelion fanfic (discussion)
He's probably talking about Kaworu and Asuka there, not Wille. The fact that Shinji pulled the Spears after Kaworu specifically told him to stop on three occasions is also a bone of contention.
Falcon: logical fallacies apply to arguments, not storytelling. You might be thinking of plot holes. The case you menton wasn't one since, as PW notes, Wille didn't have the ability to hit Nerv prior to the recovery of Unit 01. Even so the U.N. clearly did their level best to take out Nerv in the interim, as seen in Nerv HQ's battle damage. Two Evas and a bunch of boats can only do so much.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.
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Bagheera wrote:Falcon: logical fallacies apply to arguments, not storytelling. You might be thinking of plot holes. The case you menton wasn't one since, as PW notes, Wille didn't have the ability to hit Nerv prior to the recovery of Unit 01. Even so the U.N. clearly did their level best to take out Nerv in the interim, as seen in Nerv HQ's battle damage. Two Evas and a bunch of boats can only do so much.
Uhm, ok, but we are literally talking about two aging guys in a freaking wreck of a base, whereas Wille had loads of people, a small team of Wille people could have sufficed. I mean Misato CAN shoot a gun for crying out loud... It still looks silly to me, although a bit less than before. What I resent is the fact that a simple exchange between Gendo and Fuyu about, dunno, some Eva Mark 04 drones being stationed around the ruins of the Nerv HQ for defensive purposes. Anything. They could have taken 10 seconds out of the piano moments or of the initial, endless boot up of the Wunder (was that 10 minutes of people saying out loud technical stuff or did it seem so long to me alone?) and we could have had a perfectly good explanation. Whatever...
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Falcon_of_the_Sun wrote:Uhm, ok, but we are literally talking about two aging guys in a freaking wreck of a base, whereas Wille had loads of people, a small team of Wille people could have sufficed. I mean Misato CAN shoot a gun for crying out loud... It still looks silly to me, although a bit less than before. What I resent is the fact that a simple exchange between Gendo and Fuyu about, dunno, some Eva Mark 04 drones being stationed around the ruins of the Nerv HQ for defensive purposes. Anything. They could have taken 10 seconds out of the piano moments or of the initial, endless boot up of the Wunder (was that 10 minutes of people saying out loud technical stuff or did it seem so long to me alone?) and we could have had a perfectly good explanation. Whatever...
I believe that during the interminable boot up of the Wunder Ritsuko suggests that instead of fight they hightail it out of there, scatter the fleet and meet up again like they have done in the past when confronted. This suggests that they have been on the defensive for sometime without the ability to strike offensively. Them having fled in the past also indicates that despite the sorry state of Neo-Nerv HQ they still posses resources enough to pressure Wille who until the beginning of Q have not had a mobile fortress/command center/assault ship such as the Wunder in an operational state.
Falcon_of_the_Sun wrote:Uhm, ok, but we are literally talking about two aging guys in a freaking wreck of a base, whereas Wille had loads of people, a small team of Wille people could have sufficed. I mean Misato CAN shoot a gun for crying out loud... It still looks silly to me, although a bit less than before. What I resent is the fact that a simple exchange between Gendo and Fuyu about, dunno, some Eva Mark 04 drones being stationed around the ruins of the Nerv HQ for defensive purposes. Anything. They could have taken 10 seconds out of the piano moments or of the initial, endless boot up of the Wunder (was that 10 minutes of people saying out loud technical stuff or did it seem so long to me alone?) and we could have had a perfectly good explanation. Whatever...
I dont get your statement
didnt wille attack Nerv in the end of the movie with Asuka and mari ?????
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To the OT:
I liked the Rebuilds enough, but only if i consciously disassociate it from the rest of NGE and see the rebuilds as a standalone effort. But in terms of 3.33 I feel like its closer to the original spirit of NGE than 2.22 even if the script deviates a lot more than 2.22. However as a ReixHappiness shipper I'm biased towards 2.22 and I'll fully admit that it's not objectively the most NGE-esque film.
Much of the complaints I have about 3.33 stems from character development, timeskip, idiot ball, and the curse of eva (i really think if they actually let Asuka, Mari, and Shinji age to 28, it'd be quite interesting... I hope they really have a good reason for the curse of eva...)... That they lost the original ambience of NGE is understandable.
I liked the Rebuilds enough, but only if i consciously disassociate it from the rest of NGE and see the rebuilds as a standalone effort. But in terms of 3.33 I feel like its closer to the original spirit of NGE than 2.22 even if the script deviates a lot more than 2.22. However as a ReixHappiness shipper I'm biased towards 2.22 and I'll fully admit that it's not objectively the most NGE-esque film.
Much of the complaints I have about 3.33 stems from character development, timeskip, idiot ball, and the curse of eva (i really think if they actually let Asuka, Mari, and Shinji age to 28, it'd be quite interesting... I hope they really have a good reason for the curse of eva...)... That they lost the original ambience of NGE is understandable.
"0" is the past, "1" is the future, but "the present" is nowhere - this is an undeniable logic.
Among the countless parallel lines, I settle on "blasphemy" as my choice.
Among the countless parallel lines, I settle on "blasphemy" as my choice.
Falcon_of_the_Sun wrote:Uhm, ok, but we are literally talking about two aging guys in a freaking wreck of a base, whereas Wille had loads of people, a small team of Wille people could have sufficed. I mean Misato CAN shoot a gun for crying out loud... It still looks silly to me, although a bit less than before. What I resent is the fact that a simple exchange between Gendo and Fuyu about, dunno, some Eva Mark 04 drones being stationed around the ruins of the Nerv HQ for defensive purposes. Anything. They could have taken 10 seconds out of the piano moments or of the initial, endless boot up of the Wunder (was that 10 minutes of people saying out loud technical stuff or did it seem so long to me alone?) and we could have had a perfectly good explanation. Whatever...
That would be tough with the Nemesis Series wandering around, not to mention Rei in the Mark 9.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.
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