Translation of Evangelion: 3.0

[SaltyJoe]

We can do that for the OEDUB version.

By the way, Seele00TextOnly and I were talking in IRC about how the shogi match appears to never actually start -- it's just Fuyutsuki and Shinji setting up pieces. As a result

00:55:19 {Fuyutsuki} You'll lose in another thirty-one turns.

seems off.

I was under the impression that they simply stopped the match in progress and started over. Then Fuyutski unleashed the infodump.

[CJD]

By the way, Seele00TextOnly and I were talking in IRC about how the shogi match appears to never actually start -- it's just Fuyutsuki and Shinji setting up pieces. As a result

00:55:19 {Fuyutsuki} You'll lose in another thirty-one turns.

seems off.

"Off" how? As in you don't think he says it or as in it seems weird? Because that only makes the whole "He says it and 31 minutes later Kaworu dies" observation all the more creepy.

[Reichu]

I have no idea what Fuyutsuki means when he says "is this way more fun for you, then?" or whatever

Yeah, I didn't get that, either. But I also know even less about shogi than Shinji, so I should probably just suck it up and get the basic primer I should have gotten back when this translation project started.

[Seele00TextOnly]

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[akoss]

OP updated!

Please, have a look, everyone.

[Nuclear Lunchbox]

Yeah, I didn't get that, either. But I also know even less about shogi than Shinji, so I should probably just suck it up and get the basic primer I should have gotten back when this translation project started.

There are two different methods of playing Shogi; one is more American in the way that it relates to chess, but the other one has a much different feel. All the pieces are placed in the center of the Shogi board, and players attempt to draw the best pieces that they can before the pile collapses. Whoever has the best pieces at the collapse of the pile is the winner.

[Seele00TextOnly]

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[akoss]

You can't link to any torrent of anything at this site, akoss... sorry.

Oh, my bad.

Fixed that already.

[Reichu]

I've fixed a bunch of stuff (hopefully...) in my most recent edits. Check it out.

[sedemihcrA]

"Then... wouldn't that pilot have been just as good for this as me?"

Seems like written this way, you lose all of the creeped out inflection of his voice. I don't know enough about general principles of translation to make a good argument here, but essentially unless the viewer has enough familiarity with Japanese to recognize the inflection of Shinji's voice here, this sentence reads like a simple declarative instead of Shinji being reluctant to name that pilot. (Which is, of course, a reflection of his state of mind. He no longer believes she's "Rei.")

Maybe

"Then... wouldn't... that pilot have been just as good for this as me?"

or

"Then... wouldn't... that pilot... have been just as good for this as me?"

which is very ellipsis-heavy and inelegant, just trying to articulate the principle.

Thanks for continuing the hard work!

[akoss]

"Then... wouldn't that pilot have been just as good for this as me?"

Seems like written this way, you lose all of the creeped out inflection of his voice. I don't know enough about general principles of translation to make a good argument here, but essentially unless the viewer has enough familiarity with Japanese to recognize the inflection of Shinji's voice here, this sentence reads like a simple declarative instead of Shinji being reluctant to name that pilot. (Which is, of course, a reflection of his state of mind. He no longer believes she's "Rei.")

Maybe

"Then... wouldn't... that pilot have been just as good for this as me?"

or

"Then... wouldn't... that pilot... have been just as good for this as me?"

which is very ellipsis-heavy and inelegant, just trying to articulate the principle.

Thanks for continuing the hard work!

How about "Then... wouldn't that pilot have been just as good for this as me?"?
Is the italics enough emphasis? I'm also not a professional translator or anything, but I've seen italics being used before in fansubbing when trying to make something more explicit.

[Abicion]

hey guys.

http://tales.namco.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=78153&start=375

tl;dr version: I have no hope for the human race.

[sedemihcrA]

How about "Then... wouldn't that pilot have been just as good for this as me?"?
Is the italics enough emphasis? I'm also not a professional translator or anything, but I've seen italics being used before in fansubbing when trying to make something more explicit.

Yeah, that would be perfect, I just didn't know if italics were a no-no? But I think it needs something to indicate he's so freaked out by her he can't name her directly because the way it is now, that's completely lost.

[Reichu]

"Then... wouldn't that pilot have been just as good for this as me?"

Seems like written this way, you lose all of the creeped out inflection of his voice.

I had "that" capitalized before ("THAT pilot"), and can revert it easily enough.

[sedemihcrA]

Italics seems like the more elegant solution to me. Caps usually implies loudness over emphasis.

Also, can anyone make sense of Sister Suzuhara's affection toward Shinji? I feel like most of translating her well hinges on this and I'm completely at a loss for her behavior. It's at odds with everyone else at WILLE, isn't it?

[Seele00TextOnly]

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[sedemihcrA]

Apologizes in advance mods, I'd suggest splitting this too but I'm going to get confused if I don't reply here.

Sorry to say so much but there was just so much wrong with what you said.

That's a really bold statement so I'm going to answer you methodically.

I sed:

"Suzuhara's affection ... is at odds with everyone else at WILLE."

So you're arguing that because she furrows her brow at him once, this somehow makes her attitude toward him in line with the rest of the WILLE crew's disposition toward him?

How is that a reasonable leap? Your other arguments for her manner are fine, maybe believable even—but if anything, they further support my case: she is the only crew member who seems to be gentle with Shinji. Are you seriously arguing with me that she's not out of line with the whole rest of the crew?

Misato, Ritsuko, and Asuka are pretty much his only other major interactions with WILLE. They seem to represent various levels of antipathy/distrust/annoyance/fear/hatred/disappointment/disgust/etc. Misato puts a bomb on his neck as a means of solving the problem and nobody blinks. Suzuhara manages to say, "Please don't cause any more trouble for us." And that's about it.

Are you really trying to argue equivalence between them?

If so, please indulge me as to how Sakura's gentleness toward Shinji is represented within the rest of the WILLE crew.

And how is their antagonism so vastly overstated? WILLE's solution is to kill Shinji should he disobey. If you intend (and later attempt) to kill the protagonist, you are by definition the antagonist. They are literally the main antagonists of the plot of 3.0, the central opposition that creates the dramatic tension of the whole movie (while technically being the good guys, maybe?)

It's completely in line for her character to have a long seeded fondness for him thanks to that. Plus she's in medicine, it's bedside manner and all that jazz.

As much as I see the point that your making, if all of the other character changes are justified by Shinji having destroyed the world, I find it hard to believe that her old fondness somehow eclipses this residing anger. Pretty much there's either something going on with her character that we don't know/understand yet, or some of the character development was handled unevenly in the movie. I'm leaning toward the latter right now but I suspect we won't know until 4.0 and I was surprised this time around, so anything is possible.

EDIT: Went back and re-read that bit of the translation - this is pretty much the nail in the coffin for your argument.

Sakura: "If you're going to leave, that's okay."

That is a blatant contradiction to Misato's order for him to stay put and her threat to kill him if he disobeys. I'm sorry, but I'm afraid you're the one who's gotten it wrong.

To other interested parties: any idea why Sakura directly and openly contradicts the rest of WILLE in their treatment of Shinji? I'm curious to know.

[Shinoyami65]

To other interested parties: any idea why Sakura directly and openly contradicts the rest of WILLE in their treatment of Shinji? I'm curious to know.

Umm, well, I guess it has to do with how Toji is/was her older brother, and possibly Toji's views on Shinji as his friend have rubbed off on her, probably due to talking to Toji about Shinji or listening to Toji talk about Shinji.

While I'll admit that the Wille crew's hatred for Shinji has been exaggerated, their cold, hard stares at him at the beginning clearly indicate animosty, at least. Even the childish Midori seems to be staring at him with killing intent. But this isn't the thread for that, so extinguish the fire and let's get back on topic.

[Seele00TextOnly]

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[Kendrix]

Personally, I felt the emphasis on "that pilot" in the original version of this was misleading when I actually got to see/hear it, seeing the script alone made me expect something very different.
He sounded more... awkward, confused or uncertain than anything else, like he really doesn't know how to refer to her, not really as despective as an emphasis would imply...
I'd render it as "that other pilot" or something like that, based on your translation and his tone there, but, meh, just a suggestion, it#s you who understand the actual moonspeak, so...

Also, one question on my part, Sakuras last line in the departure... Once and for all, it it "I really want to be able to forgive you" or "I really do want you to forgive me" ? Because both imply very different things/meanings there which seem crucial to the interpretation and I want to make sure I'm using sound arguments.