Misato's relationship with Shinji in 3.0

[Bagheera]

Why do we persist on defending this boy when he embodies poor traits of judgement and actions instead of accepting that he needs to deal with it? Why do we want to relive his burdens so much, when they are his and his alone?

Because he's not a hateful, evil person and he deserves a chance to make amends for what he did. Because he didn't create the situation that led to his awful decisions, and he very much is a pawn of others. Because he's made mistakes, but he ain't Hitler. ;)

The problem here is that we have an all-or-nothing mentality: either he's responsible and he's vile, vile, vile, or he's not and everyone else is to blame. Both positions are fundamentally incorrect. He's a good kid who made bad decisions in the midst of horrible situations created by others, and while he's responsible for those decisions he didn't want to wreck the world. Give him a chance to make it right, a real one, and he'll leap at it. That makes him a character worth saving! Just make sure someone like Asuka's holding him back until the time is right and all will be well.

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[Darkwing]

Another big thing to note is that for the members of Wille 3rd impact happened 14 years ago. For Shinji, time stood still from the moment he saved Rei. And the fight with the Zeruel seems to take place in fairly short order after Bardiel. Shinji hasn't had any time to adjust. From the looks of things, he doesn't get a chance to stop in reflect on things until after he's taken back to Nerv.

I think the pro Shinji aurgument is should Shinji be damned as the worst monster ever because a choice he made had bad consequences he could not have forseen? Shinji just wanted to save Rei. He had no way knowing it would cause what it did. Gendo's the one who knows his plan will do all this, but is willing to do it to see Yui again, and that is a big difference.

What I'm taking away from 3rd Impact is that a choice that is in of itself not bad can have truly horrific effects. Shinji is the one who has to deal with this.

[StratoSakuya...AF]

What's more, his superior officers at the time aren't blaming him.

I realized that when I saw it. Misato wasn't as cold as she was just trying to tell him to stay in the sidelines. I still see no reason for putting something mortal rather than dealing with him using non-lethal equipment. Then again, I guess she was hoping she would never need to use it (if that makes your sleep better).

Misato was mostly acting businesslike instead of emotive, Sakura seemed as if she was feeling regret for being on the bandwagon and Asuka doesn't hate him (she's being Asuka) so I can't say everybody hates him, but they definitely want him retired of piloting.

[CyberXIII]

No. That's just not how accountability works. Everything you mention here is a mitigating factor, but none of it changes the fact that he pulled the trigger. It's like saying Smith & Wesson or an alcoholic parent are responsible if you take a gun and go and shoot someone, and it's hogwash. They're responsible for creating the situation and giving him the means to do what he did, yes, but he's still the one who made it happen. There's just no getting around that.

I think these discussions would go a lot more smoothly if people would focus less on shifting blame and more on moving forward. Yes, Shinji did this thing, but should he be persecuted for it? Should the folks at Wille bear grudges? I think a resounding "no" is an appropriate answer to both questions, and I think that's quite reasonable even though I fully maintain that Shinji's responsible for what happened. Accepting responsibility =/= demonizing Shinji! It's just being honest about the situation and moving on from there.

The difference here is that a Smith & Wesson doesn't have a conscious mind aside from the person holding it. Eva-01 does have its own will and demonstrated it multiple times. After Shinji butchered Zeruel the thing was practically driving itself. He just wanted Rei back, but Eva-01 was clearly doing something completely different than what he wanted. We as the audience saw that when he yanked Rei's soul out of Zeruel's core (well, sorta).
The people at WILLE don't see that, and if they did I doubt that they would care. To them, Shinji may as well be the anti-Christ, and his father is Satan.

I do agree with the latter half of the statement, though.

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[Bagheera]

Citation needed, desperately.
(emphasis mine)

Seriously. These kinds of statements (Cyber's, not yours) are exactly the sort we don't need, since they polarize the discussion while adding nothing to it.

[NemZ]

Citation needed, desperately.

For what it's worth, people's words are less than half of the message. Tone, expression, and posture all matter a lot as well, and much of this is currently unavailable to most of us. From what Lili tells me however Shinji is immediately greeted with expressions of disgust and anger from just about everyone on the bridge the first time he steps foot there, and that goes a long way towards setting the scene in context... and then Misato shows off her handy remote detonator.

Considering that she almost certainly did pull the trigger on that later, I expect that's going to be one hell of an interesting conversation in part 4.

[Ramiel²]

For what it's worth, people's words are less than half of the message. Tone, expression, and posture all matter a lot as well, and much of this is currently unavailable to most of us. From what Lili tells me however Shinji is immediately greeted with expressions of disgust and anger from just about everyone on the bridge the first time he steps foot there, and that goes a long way towards setting the scene in context... and then Misato shows off her handy remote detonator.

Considering that she almost certainly did pull the trigger on that later, I expect that's going to be one hell of an interesting conversation in part 4.

Is it seriously implied that Misato pushed the trigger for the collar?
From reading the spoilers i thought the collar activated itself by recognizing Kaworu as the 13th angel.
If Misato really has to pull the Trigger first then Shinji might indeed be an angel after he was retrieved from eva-01. I know sounds stupid but if the collar only works remote-wise then this starts to get iffy..

[Darkwing]

For what it's worth, people's words are less than half of the message. Tone, expression, and posture all matter a lot as well, and much of this is currently unavailable to most of us. From what Lili tells me however Shinji is immediately greeted with expressions of disgust and anger from just about everyone on the bridge the first time he steps foot there, and that goes a long way towards setting the scene in context... and then Misato shows off her handy remote detonator.

The hateful Maya shot I've seen seems to support the repots that they are not happy to see Shinji, not happy at all.

Considering that she almost certainly did pull the trigger on that later, I expect that's going to be one hell of an interesting conversation in part 4.

Depends on how bad Shinji's avoidence issues are at the time. I can see him being more upset that she Killed Kawrou, then that she tried to kill him. Misato might point out that the collar wouldn't have killed Kawrou if it had been left where she put it. Course I don't see Misato being too upset about killing Kawrou, since he was an angel.

[LiLi]

The hateful Maya shot I've seen seems to support the repots that they are not happy to see Shinji, not happy at all.

I cannot recall Maya being in the same room with Shinji. My guess is, her anger in that scene was directed at the young men whose work she was not satisfied with.

I do however recall that cold glares from other guys (such as Aoba, IIRC) greeted Shinji as soon as he got to the bridge of the Wunder.

Misato seemed to be generally trying to avoid talking to Shinji, leaving Sakura and Ritsuko to provide most (of what little) explaining they gave him.

BTW, IIRC the choker is password-locked so that only Misato can set it off.

[Darkwing]

Thanks for the info!

Funny I would have thought Maya would be one of the easier people to work for.

So Misato seems to be avoiding Shinji? Very interesting.

[Jayfive]

My guess is, her anger in that scene was directed at the young men whose work she was not satisfied with.

Strict Mistress Ibuki? Oh my word....

Ahem, anyway - the last 14 years have been tough for her to have developed a sharper edge. Very deliberate choice there to emphasis how much things have changed.

My thought at seeing the trailer was that Ibuki was scowling at how everyone else was mistreating Shinji. But it appears she is just going "*Sigh*....dumbasses...". Context is everything :)

[Bagheera]

Considering that she almost certainly did pull the trigger on that later, I expect that's going to be one hell of an interesting conversation in part 4.

For some reason what comes to mind here is an After the End style conversation, with Asuka adding a bit of color commentary to spice things up. The result is probably in poor taste, but very funny.

[Kendrix]

Yeah, when Maya is all serious business, the world certainly went to shit.
Seems like Kitakami is now the replacement clueless bridge bunny, but I like that she's clueless in her own way, not a carbon copy.


@Topic:

Blaming Misato just for encouranging him is going too far to the other extreme. She had as little of a clue about what was going to happen as Shinji had. It thought it gave nice closure/ a good callback to her words in 1.0 where she asked him what he wants and stuff.

[Reichu]

Blaming Misato just for encouranging him is going too far to the other extreme. She had as little of a clue about what was going to happen as Shinji had.

Odds are we were supposed to pick up on this odd discrepancy, and the fact that she ignored Ritsuko's portentous words along with weird shit like the Eva moving without power and glowing red and sprouting a halo and firing energy beams, etc. Because more than likely Misato has been beating herself up for the past 14 years on account of all that.

Misato: What the fuck was I thinking, Ritchan? How did I not realize until-- ... I'm a fucking idiot.
Ritsuko: Told you so.

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[Ornette]

The collar is set to go off by itself if it is unable to "suppress the risk of Awakening", supposedly:

00:25:57 If you lose control of your emotions while piloting an Eva and become unable to suppress the risk of Awakening,
00:26:04 this will intervene by terminating your life.

[Kendrix]

Tone, expression, and posture all matter a lot as well, and much of this is currently unavailable to most of us. From what Lili tells me however Shinji is immediately greeted with expressions of disgust and anger from just about everyone on the bridge the first time he steps foot there, and that goes a long way towards setting the scene in context...

There is a part of the translation where Shinji says something like "...What's the matter? It's me!"

and I feel like I'm gonna bawl when I see the context.

[Ornette]

There is a part of the translation where Shinji says something like "...What's the matter? It's me!"

and I feel like I'm gonna bawl when I see the context.

I don't see that in the translation. Can you point me to a timestamp?