Shinji 2.0 an improvement?

[0x2eleven]

What do you all think of the Shinji we see during the finale of 2.0? I have to say, while watching that ending, my heart was truly warmed and I felt quite proud of Shinji. Not only did he defeat the Angel, but he did it like a badass, and to top it all off he got the girl too.

A lot of people complain that Shinji is a whiny wuss, but after that glorious, beautiful triumph and show of maturation, do they still have any right to take shots at the anime's main character? I don't think so, but I never thought they had that right in the first place. What do you think? And do you think he'll revert back to the old Shinji for the next two movies?

[Nonoriri]

There isn't anything mature about almost ending the world to save a friend.

Makes for an ok movie ending though.

[AuraTwilight]

Are you praising Shinji for being so selfish that he was perfectly cognizant and willing to destroy the entire world to get a girl that he was pushing all of his emotional investment on like he did Kaworu in the original anime?

Shinji's exactly as he is before, really. He's just being more badass about his whiny bitch issues.

[0x2eleven]

There isn't anything mature about almost ending the world to save a friend.

Makes for an ok movie ending though.

Are you praising Shinji for being so selfish that he was perfectly cognizant and willing to destroy the entire world to get a girl that he was pushing all of his emotional investment on like he did Kaworu in the original anime?

Shinji's exactly as he is before, really. He's just being more badass about his whiny bitch issues.

There's something mature in not running away.

[SaltyJoe]

I say it's a more complicated affair than to be labeled simply as an "improvement".

Yes, he did take action on his own, set his own goals, fought for what he believed was right. And yes, in a sense, that is a mature thing to do.

At the same time, he threw his own and everybody else's lives into mortal peril, shutting himself away from any reason, all because of his emotional neediness.

Fighting for your own goals is a mature thing. Letting go, admitting defeat and moving on is an even more mature thing.

Ironically, not only did Shinji play into the hands of his hated father by his actions, he also followed his advice: took matters into his own hands. But keep in mind, that bit of advice came from a guy who wants to end the world as we know it, using abusing and eve killing people if need be, all because he can't get over his boner for his effectively "dead" wife.

[Warren Peace]

Did Shinji even know he was initiating Third Impact? I thought he was concerned only with rescuing Rei and unaware of the consequences.

[SaltyJoe]

Did Shinji even know he was initiating Third Impact? I thought he was concerned only with rescuing Rei and unaware of the consequences.

I don't care about the world, nor myself... but Ayanami... her alone.... i will save her!

The point is, even if he knew, he wouldn't have cared. Even if he would have been told that everybody else (himself included) would die as a consequence, he wouldn't have cared.

[backseatjesus]

The point is, even if he knew, he wouldn't have cared. Even if he would have been told that everybody else (himself included) would die as a consequence, he wouldn't have cared.

I personally think that this version of Shinji is simply full of shit with what he says. It's also obvious that he doesn't just care about Ayanami since he basically snapped when

SPOILER: Show

Asuka was crushed like a tin can by his own "hands"

[Warren Peace]

How would that mean he doesn't care about Rei?

If he DID know about Third Impact, then it's a validation of what his father said about him when he was in handcuffs. He lets the needs of the few outway the needs of the many. He's the anti-Spock!

[Nonoriri]

doesn't just = doesn't only

Also I believe that since he probably thinks Asuka is dead (or well at least knows she got heavily injured ) he is merely continuing his temper tantrum state and jumps to focusing on actually being able to save someone. Suddenly he is presented the opportunity to save Rei and does it at nearly the cost of the world. (which he had regressed back into not caring for)

So has he really improved or "advanced" at all? I'm not sure but he probably felt good about being able to do something by his own terms. (Well not really~)

[SaltyJoe]

Not that he doesn't care, IMHO. He doesn't just care, as in, doesn't just care for her for what she is, but he also uses saving her as an outlet for balancing out the emotional pain caused by his father's "treachery".

He may be shown to be more caring, but deep down, he's still as needy and selfish as ever. He's no Captain America. Which, for me, is a good thing.

[paranoidandroid]

Isn't giving in to your desires and being selfish a part of being human?

[bladerj]

Isn't giving in to your desires and being selfish a part of being human?

Over the crying, musnt run away, and whining in the original series, DEFINITELY !

But saving Rei was mere guilty over the fact he couldn't save Asuka, so he wouldnt allow the same to happen to Rei it could be mari in 00 that the result would be the same...sans ending of the world and giant naked mari.....hmm giant naked british oppais.

[NemZ]

Actually, it's more correct that for two fights in a row he was in favor of letting the whole world die just so he could claim to be a good person. He's also got absolutely no excuse for his pacifism vs. Bardiel this time around since he's told in the first movie that if the angels win all of humanity will die.

Shinji 2.0 may be a bit more open in general, but from Bardiel on he becomes an unbelievably selfish little git. Other random schemes aside, Gendo was right to send him away if he's unable to consider the bigger picture.

[simon]

I'm pretty sure he didn't know what consequences his action could have had (starting 3rd impact) since even we and most of the characters don't know what exactly causes it. Also, the fact he said he didn't care about the world and such, doesn't mean he wouldn't have stopped if he had known what shit he was about to start.

So basically I agree with the thread starter. More courageous Shinji was one of sadly not many good improvements, IMO of course.

@Nemz
If there was evil so great you couldn't defeat it, would you succumb to the evil or become evil to overcome evil?

[Oz]

Umm, Shinji knows that Asuka is inside the entry plug. In my opinion the situation is more reasonable in 2.0 than in the original show.

[NemZ]

@Nemz
If there was evil so great you couldn't defeat it, would you succumb to the evil or become evil to overcome evil?

'Evil' doesn't exist... just differing views and motives leading to actions carried out for the benefit of various groups or individuals. I'd do what seemed best for me and/or those I care about and let others judge me as they will.

That said, are you honestly saying that performing actions in self defense that could lead to the death of someone you know is worse than passively allowing an entire city to be sacrificed to potentially stave off a genocidal event... thus insuring that the person in the other cockpit is still going to die either with the city or with the world as a whole if that final plan doesn't work? Shinji was told this harsh truth flat-out by Misato in the first rebuild film.

[Wissenschaft]

So has he really improved or "advanced" at all? I'm not sure but he probably felt good about being able to do something by his own terms. (Well not really~)

Bingo! You win. You have just discovered why the movie is titled " You can (NOT) advance"

Many fans of the original show always wondered if Shinji just had a backbone, if the pilots were more stable, if they were more emotionally "advance", would the show have ended differently.

The movies finally answer this question with a definitive NO. In fact, ironically, making the pilots more stable, more happy, more understanding of their own emotions actually sped up the (almost) end of the world.

Hence, no matter what Shinji does he can NOT advance.


P.S.

I love Shinji 2.0 (with a spine) since its at long last answered this question I've had since first watching the original series.

[Sailor Star Dust]

SaltyJoe pretty much hit the nail on the head I feel so I don't have much to add... Other than the fact that Shinji in 2.0 is just as selfish as in, say, EoE but he's a step up from that with valuing A life instead of feeling everybody including himself should be damned.

Shinji still has a long way to go before accepting himself and other people in terms of love (Unconditional, with love for self and others) as well as simply the acceptance of existing (See also: EoTV and EoE).

Though I mentioned this more or less in another thread.

[Mr. Tines]

The movies finally answer this question with a definitive NO.

Well put, and a good point.

Whatever their states of mind, the pilots -- and the rest of NERV -- are being battered by forces beyond merely human agency. However much they kick against the pricks, all they can do is make slight changes to their trajectory as things inevitably go to hell in a handcart.